Political Roundtable Part XXXI

pancakes3 · Post #601 » by **pancakes3** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 7:51 pm

that isn't how warrants work though. you need to articulate the probable cause to get get the warrant, and this isn't a rubber stamp drug bust search warrant - it was scrutinized pretty heavily.

the MSNBS attorney is... implying that the FBI and the DOJ attorney went up to a judge with a fake/pretextual probable cause to get documents back? doesn't make sense to me.

closg00 · Post #602 » by **closg00** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 8:46 pm

I took a spin around MAGA world to hear/read the reaction to the "raid" and WOW, they live in world where the entire narrative is how Trump is a victim, and whatabout_X

Pointgod · Post #603 » by **Pointgod** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 8:53 pm

closg00 wrote:I took a spin around MAGA world to hear/read the reaction to the "raid" and WOW, they live in world where the entire narrative is how Trump is a victim, and whatabout_X

MAGA world is literally full of insane psychopaths. These people are legitimately deranged. The only good news is that Twitter is such a small piece of the population and there are a ton of bots who follow right wing grifters.

Pointgod · Post #604 » by **Pointgod** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 9:05 pm

This is a pretty good endorsement of Democrats and giving them the reigns of power.

Read on Twitter

I can’t see the Republicans whining about Trump and threatening to take away womens rights and social security as an effective counter message.

Post #605 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 9:22 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Just watched Maddow's show last night, from what she was able to piece together, and she doesn't say it in so many words, but it looks like:
The POTUS archives discovered that key documents were missing

They went to Trump to ask for them back

After a year of resistance he gave them 15 boxes of documents

The archives produces a 100 page list of relevant unclassified documents (schedules, talking points, etc.)

They also produced an unclassified 3 page list of classified documents (!!!)

And there are documents that are so classified that a list of them would have to be classified (!!!!!!!)

and then the AG signed a warrant for FBI agents to go to Mar a Lago and grab something.

You can reasonably assume that they knew damn well that what they were looking for was there, so it sounds like Trump admitted he had classified material that absolutely cannot be shared with Putin that he refused to turn over, so they went to Mar a Lago to take it. Trump didn't flush it because it was valuable to him and he assumed he would get away with just "negotiating" over giving it back forever. So Garland decided "here's what we'll do - we're going to take it, and then you can argue with us whether that was a legal thing to do, rather than us letting you just keep this highly classified material in your hands"

If this is true... I mean, JFC!!!!!!!!!! BUT HER EMAILS

Except. He is not reacting with the level of vitriol and explosions that he usually does when he is caught red-handed. He explodes more about his tax information becoming public than his weak protest about this. My read is: Trump's Russian handlers were too smart to let those documents remain in his possession. Zero chance they were in his safe, or at least that safe. That material has already been shared with Putin. Then shredded burned destroyed. Flushed no doubt.

JFC can you imagine? "You said you had these docs detailing where Zelensky drops off payments to CIA agents for smart bombs. When we raided your house THEY WEREN'T THERE. WE KNOW THESE DOCS EXIST. WHERE THE F@#$ ARE THEY????"

Post #606 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 9:31 pm

pancakes3 wrote:that isn't how warrants work though. you need to articulate the probable cause to get get the warrant, and this isn't a rubber stamp drug bust search warrant - it was scrutinized pretty heavily.

the MSNBS attorney is... implying that the FBI and the DOJ attorney went up to a judge with a fake/pretextual probable cause to get documents back? doesn't make sense to me.

What? Who said that? I speculated, extrapolating from what MSNBC said, that Trump's lawyers and the DOJ have been haggling over specific documents. Both sides know they are there, Trump's side has admitted they are there (let's say). Finally DOJ has gotten tired of haggling and gotten a warrant to just drive over there and grab them. That's my THEORY. You can't get more probable cause than "Trump says he has them in his safe but that he declassified them and refuses to give them back. We're asking to go grab these incredibly sensitive documents and then let the courts sort it out AFTER WE HAVE THEM IN OUR POSSESSION." Something like "these are the code words we use each month for selling smart bombs to the Ukrainians."

If that's the case then there's no point in burning them because that'll just get him in more trouble - again, both sides already know about the docs and what they say. And this is exactly the sort of ironclad thing that would justify a raid.

I dunno - the truth is probably way weirder. I'm just trying to think of an example of something that is consistent with what we know, and has the level of evidence that would convince Merrick Garland to risk throwing the next election to the traitors for. I assume lives are at stake - US spies will die if they don't get these docs back.

Ugh but can you imagine if they get the docs back and realize those spies are already dead because Trump sold the info to the Rooskies already? AND YOU CAN'T TELL ANYONE BECAUSE IT'S ALL TOP SECRET???

Post #607 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 10:23 pm

Read on Twitter

So Trump basically said "I double dog dare you to come to MAL and take these docs" and the DOJ pretty much had no choice at that point.

Pointgod · Post #608 » by **Pointgod** » Tue Aug 9, 2022 11:16 pm

Read on Twitter

JWizmentality · Post #609 » by **JWizmentality** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:33 am

Down goes Perry. This is like Christmas.

dckingsfan · Post #610 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:40 am

JWizmentality wrote:Down goes Perry. This is like Christmas.

Wait, what?!?

JWizmentality · Post #611 » by **JWizmentality** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:57 am

dckingsfan wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Down goes Perry. This is like Christmas.

Wait, what?!?

FBI has seized Scott Perry's phone.

Post #612 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:01 pm

Now I'm bored again. Stupid 24 hour news cycle.

closg00 · Post #613 » by **closg00** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:24 pm

Re: The Republican response to the raid, they were in-front of the cameras and Twitter instantly establishing a favorable narrative for Trump, why have Democrats never learned how to play this game this effectively? I have seen some random Tweets, but not effective counter when the facts are not favorable to Trump.

Pointgod · Post #614 » by **Pointgod** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:25 pm

I’m laughing my ass off that now the Republicans want to defund the police :lol:

these people are legitimately weirdos and Democrats should attack them accordingly

Post #615 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:29 pm

closg00 wrote:Re: The Republican response to the raid, they were in-front of the cameras and Twitter instantly establishing a favorable narrative for Trump, why have Democrats never learned how to play this game this effectively? I have seen some random Tweets, but not effective counter when the facts are not favorable to Trump.

It's *so* well coordinated. I've gotta wonder if Trump has been trying to provoke the DOJ into raiding MAL for months, precisely to unleash this pre-planned right wing freakout.

Am I getting paranoid? I sound like one of those false flag guys

dobrojim · Post #616 » by **dobrojim** » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:41 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Just watched Maddow's show last night, from what she was able to piece together, and she doesn't say it in so many words, but it looks like:
The POTUS archives discovered that key documents were missing

They went to Trump to ask for them back

After a year of resistance he gave them 15 boxes of documents

The archives produces a 100 page list of relevant unclassified documents (schedules, talking points, etc.)

They also produced an unclassified 3 page list of classified documents (!!!)

And there are documents that are so classified that a list of them would have to be classified (!!!!!!!)

and then the AG signed a warrant for FBI agents to go to Mar a Lago and grab something.

You can reasonably assume that they knew damn well that what they were looking for was there, so it sounds like Trump admitted he had classified material that absolutely cannot be shared with Putin that he refused to turn over, so they went to Mar a Lago to take it. Trump didn't flush it because it was valuable to him and he assumed he would get away with just "negotiating" over giving it back forever. So Garland decided "here's what we'll do - we're going to take it, and then you can argue with us whether that was a legal thing to do, rather than us letting you just keep this highly classified material in your hands"

If this is true... I mean, JFC!!!!!!!!!! BUT HER EMAILS

Except. He is not reacting with the level of vitriol and explosions that he usually does when he is caught red-handed. He explodes more about his tax information becoming public than his weak protest about this. My read is: Trump's Russian handlers were too smart to let those documents remain in his possession. Zero chance they were in his safe, or at least that safe. That material has already been shared with Putin. Then shredded burned destroyed. Flushed no doubt.

Speaking of which, a ruling unfavorable to Golfy on that was just handed down as well.
Actually the ruling was that Congress can get them which isn't quite the same thing as
being public. What sucks and ought to be fixed is how long a ruling on a subject like
this can be delayed. This should have been settled while tRump was still in office.