The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[Ruzious]

Well all of my optimism for this season is gone:

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/10/4 ... ?ref=yahoo

Quoting Flip Saunders:

"Hilton Armstrong's had a really solid camp. He's actually played better than JaVale McGee has through camp right now. We've got to get JaVale defensive rebounding right now. With him, we need more substance than style. He's always been a style guy, and we got to get some substance out of that position."

Basically, Flip lacks an internal filter when making comments to the media, whatever is in his head is what comes out of his mouth and usually it something surprisingly counter-productive (seriously, it could be a form of tourettes. I wish Flip would take a page out of Ernie's book when it comes to speaking about our players to the media.

While some folks here fretted over every single word Flip said to the media about Blatche last season, Blatche had a break-through season. So, I'm not sure how the conclusion is that Flip's honesty has been counter-productive.

[leswizards]

CCJ: How do you think McGee should be used? How do you see that fitting into a winning team? Who do you suggest take on the roles that McGee would not be filling?

If I were the coach, I would either be fining McGee or forcing him to run laps every time he prematurely leaves the floor in an attempt to get a blocked shot. If they could just break him of the habit of playing the game on a pogo stick, they would instantly turn him into an above average center.

[nate33]

CCJ: How do you think McGee should be used? How do you see that fitting into a winning team? Who do you suggest take on the roles that McGee would not be filling?

If I were the coach, I would either be fining McGee or forcing him to run laps every time he prematurely leaves the floor in an attempt to get a blocked shot. If they could just break him of the habit of playing the game on a pogo stick, they would instantly turn him into an above average center.

They should tell him that he is specifically NOT allowed to jump on defense except to get a rebound. Maybe that'll force him to break the habit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ: How do you think McGee should be used? How do you see that fitting into a winning team? Who do you suggest take on the roles that McGee would not be filling?

Start him with Blatche and give them 15 regular season games together, Nivek.

I do not see that winning games, but I would hope Wall, Arenas, Yi with them would at least make them competitive. The Wizards need to start Yi at SF with McGee at C and just play tall guys around Blatche, who can seriously ball. I suspect the very best team for the Wizards is Wall, Arenas, Young, Blatche, McGee. Will that win? Nope. But what are Hinrich, Seraphin, Yi, Booker on the team for but to help?

For roles McGee doesn't fill, I am not sure what you're asking. Honestly, Nivek, the Wizards received a lot of calls for Javale and I think at this point he should be traded. Flip is not the coach for him. The coach wants a defender and someone who fundamentally positions himself for defensive rebounds. Javale wants to attempt to block every shot, not take much contact, not battle inside where his body gets manhandled, and rather than go after every defensive board he wants to release early and run the court in hopes of getting a dunk. Seems like nobody wins.

As a fan I see potential in McGee and I think that his best role is that of a hybrid PF/C. He's not capable of being the distributor like Pau is in the triangle offense, but Javale is capable of being an energy player.

Javale McGee had a game with 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. The last guy to do that was Kevin McHale, in 1984.

I am not sure, but I THINK FLIP IS WRONG AS WRONG CAN BE if he thinks the role for McGee is to come off the bench behind Hilton Armstrong.

Just trade McGee already and let somebody else besides this coach figure out what to do with Javale.

[Ruzious]

If you can get an Oden for McGee, I'd do it. I would not trade him for a player who doesn't have outstanding ability.

I really doubt that Hilton Armstrong is going to start any regular season games. I don't have any problem with giving the starting job to Javale IF... he does 1 thing - play hard all the time.

[nate33]

For roles McGee doesn't fill, I am not sure what you're askin. Honestly, Nivek, the Wizards received a lot of calls for Javale and I think at this point he should be traded. Flip is not the coach for him. The coach wants a defender and someone who fundamentally positions himself for defensive rebounds. Javale wants to attempt to block every shot, not take much contact, not battle inside where his body gets manhandled, and rather than go after every defensive board he wants to release early and run the court in hopes of getting a dunk. Seems like nobody wins.

As a fan I see potential in McGee and I think that his best role is that of a hybrid PF/C. He's not capable of being the distributor like Pau is in the triangle offense, but Javale is capable of being an energy player.

Javale McGee had a game with 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. The last guy to do that was Kevin McHale, in 1984.

I am not sure, but I THINK FLIP IS WRONG AS WRONG CAN BE if he thinks the role for McGee is to come off the bench behind Hilton Armstrong.

Just trade McGee already and let somebody else besides this coach figure out what to do with Javale.

CCJ, you're a little incoherent here. You just said that McGee's best role is that of an "energy guy" PF/C hybrid. If so, why exactly are you so against the idea of Flip starting Armstrong and bringing McGee off the bench?

The bottom line is that one of the two bigs (Blatche or McGee) must be a physical grunt who can do the dirty work. If not, we're just not going to win ball games when it matters. Blatche already does a lot for this team with his post game, his mid-range game and his defense. It's a little much to ask Blatche to be our primary post scorer, best post defender, best team defender, and best rebounder. McGee has to pull his weight. He can't just slip screens and go for alley-oop dunks every play. He's the guy who has to be the grunt.

If McGee can't do it, then he does indeed need to be traded. But there's nothing wrong with trying to teach him to do that dirty work before giving up on him.

[Nivek]

CCJ: How do you think McGee should be used? How do you see that fitting into a winning team? Who do you suggest take on the roles that McGee would not be filling?

Start him with Blatche and give them 15 regular season games together, Nivek.

I do not see that winning games, but I would hope Wall, Arenas, Yi with them would at least make them competitive. The Wizards need to start Yi at SF with McGee at C and just play tall guys around Blatche, who can seriously ball. I suspect the very best team for the Wizards is Wall, Arenas, Young, Blatche, McGee. Will that win? Nope. But what are Hinrich, Seraphin, Yi, Booker on the team for but to help?

I have no problem with that lineup. I have no problem with starting McGee and giving him 41 -- or even 82 games to see if he can do the job. The team's going to suck anyway, why not find out for sure whether he has anything beyond the ability to run and jump?

For roles McGee doesn't fill, I am not sure what you're askin. Honestly, Nivek, the Wizards received a lot of calls for Javale and I think at this point he should be traded. Flip is not the coach for him. The coach wants a defender and someone who fundamentally positions himself for defensive rebounds. Javale wants to attempt to block every shot, not take much contact, not battle inside where his body gets manhandled, and rather than go after every defensive board he wants to release early and run the court in hopes of getting a dunk. Seems like nobody wins.

What I'm getting at is that good teams need certain jobs done during a game. A center's job usually is to defend the post, be a help defender in the paint, to get rebounds, and (if he has the skills) to score (usually inside).

I don't think it's unreasonable for Flip to ask McGee to do these things. For McGee to be a successful player ANYWHERE, he's going to have to learn to play defense. Most coaches really don't care about how a player positions himself for rebounds -- they care about whether the player comes down with the ball. Barkley never boxed out, for example, and his coaches never complained about his board work.

The positioning thing is Flip's attempt to help McGee get better at rebounding the ball because the Wizards will be desperate for rebounds this season. If the rebounds aren't going to come from McGee, who's going to do the job? Blatche is a subpar rebounder for his position. Yi isn't a robust rebounder. Arenas and Wall are going to pick up that slack?

As a fan I see potential in McGee and I think that his best role is that of a hybrid PF/C. He's not capable of being the distributor like Pau is in the triangle offense, but Javale is capable of being an energy player.

Javale McGee had a game with 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. The last guy to do that was Kevin McHale, in 1984.

Those were impressive numbers, and it was a spectacular game he had. If I recall, he had something like 8 dunks in that game. No question the kid can run and jump. But, there are 82 games on the schedule. He also had a game in which he got 1 rebound in 31 minutes. A center as young as McGee has managed to do that just 9 other times since 1986. (Brook Lopez, Jason Collins, Jelani McCoy, Tony Battie, Bryant Reeves, Elden Campbell 2x, Brad Daugherty and Shawn Bradley)

I wouldn't have a problem with using McGee off the bench as a PF/C in a Chris Andersen type of role. But, he'd need good players ahead of him, which the Wizards don't have. And he'd need to learn how to play defense and do a better job rebounding. So, we're back to what Flip is asking him to do.

Plus, if that's all he becomes, I think it would be a disappointment given McGee's athleticism. It would be a colossal waste of talent.

I am not sure, but I THINK FLIP IS WRONG AS WRONG CAN BE if he thinks the role for McGee is to come off the bench behind Hilton Armstrong.

Just trade McGee already and let somebody else besides this coach figure out what to do with Javale.

I agree that McGee should not be coming off the bench behind Armstrong. But, I wouldn't pin it on Flip. The Wizards plan this season was to have McGee start at center. It's still the plan. If it changes it's because McGee plays himself out of the starting lineup.

That said, put yourself in Flip's position. Could you really justify starting McGee and playing him significant minutes if he's truly getting outplayed by Armstrong? That'd be a tough sell. Plus, if McGee can't even beat out Armstrong, what would be the point in giving him significant playing time in games?

[dobrojim]

Ask yourself this, am I being consistent if I complain that coach played
vets (AJ/TJ) ahead of more deserving youth and then turned around
and complained if the coach played vets ahead of LESS deserving
youth? AM I for a meritocracy or not?

This is purely hypothetical since I seriously doubt HA starts
ahead of McGee. If he does, I withhold judgment until I see what
the results of that are.

[Silvie Lysandra]

If McGee cannot give a consistent defensive presence, be effective on the glass, and provide consistent inside scoring, he's a bust, pure and simple. If he can do only one of those things, he's a backup. If he can do two of those things, he's an upper-tier starter at C. If he can do all of those, he's an all-star to potential superstar.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

For roles McGee doesn't fill, I am not sure what you're askin. Honestly, Nivek, the Wizards received a lot of calls for Javale and I think at this point he should be traded. Flip is not the coach for him. The coach wants a defender and someone who fundamentally positions himself for defensive rebounds. Javale wants to attempt to block every shot, not take much contact, not battle inside where his body gets manhandled, and rather than go after every defensive board he wants to release early and run the court in hopes of getting a dunk. Seems like nobody wins.

As a fan I see potential in McGee and I think that his best role is that of a hybrid PF/C. He's not capable of being the distributor like Pau is in the triangle offense, but Javale is capable of being an energy player.

Javale McGee had a game with 25 points and 15 rebounds in under 30 minutes off the bench. The last guy to do that was Kevin McHale, in 1984.

I am not sure, but I THINK FLIP IS WRONG AS WRONG CAN BE if he thinks the role for McGee is to come off the bench behind Hilton Armstrong.

Just trade McGee already and let somebody else besides this coach figure out what to do with Javale.

CCJ, you're a little incoherent here. You just said that McGee's best role is that of an "energy guy" PF/C hybrid. If so, why exactly are you so against the idea of Flip starting Armstrong and bringing McGee off the bench?

The bottom line is that one of the two bigs (Blatche or McGee) must be a physical grunt who can do the dirty work. If not, we're just not going to win ball games when it matters. Blatche already does a lot for this team with his post game, his mid-range game and his defense. It's a little much to ask Blatche to be our primary post scorer, best post defender, best team defender, and best rebounder. McGee has to pull his weight. He can't just slip screens and go for alley-oop dunks every play. He's the guy who has to be the grunt.

If McGee can't do it, then he does indeed need to be traded. But there's nothing wrong with trying to teach him to do that dirty work before giving up on him.

I'll admit to incoherent if you admit to being inflexible.

Hilton Armstrong, starter. Nope.

Blatche or McGee must be a physical grunt? Hell to the no on that.

How about thinking out of th box and just not having a physical grunt unless Seraphin and Booker are in the game? How about investing playing time in guys with a future in the league? How about running and dunking the ball like the Showtime Lakers? They had Landesburger, AC Green, and Rambis but those guys all ran and were fluid athletes when it comes to finishing on the break. Kareem was a seasoned pivot and an all time great, but they got by with tremendous offense and only top-third of the league defense.

I believe a better idea than starting Hilton Armstrong ahead of McGee would be to start Yi ahead of McGee. Again, no grunt. Scorer.

But where I think the obvious move as long as inflexible, system-driven Saunders is coach would be to trade McGee.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ: How do you think McGee should be used? How do you see that fitting into a winning team? Who do you suggest take on the roles that McGee would not be filling?

If I were the coach, I would either be fining McGee or forcing him to run laps every time he prematurely leaves the floor in an attempt to get a blocked shot. If they could just break him of the habit of playing the game on a pogo stick, they would instantly turn him into an above average center.

Honestly, I think if they'd just let McGee play about 15 games with Wall, Blatche, or Hinrich pointing him in the right direction that would be the best thing. Coach trying to break player hasn't worked yet with McGee, unless you mean to break his spirit.

I think the light is going to come on with McGee by serendipity. No way I can prove it, but I think he'll get it. Start him and see what happens. Don't start off the darned season saying Armstong's better than McGee! I didn't say it, Flip did.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Basically, Flip lacks an internal filter when making comments to the media, whatever is in his head is what comes out of his mouth and usually it something surprisingly counter-productive (seriously, it could be a form of tourettes. I wish Flip would take a page out of Ernie's book when it comes to speaking about our players to the media.

While some folks here fretted over every single word Flip said to the media about Blatche last season, Blatche had a break-through season. So, I'm not sure how the conclusion is that Flip's honesty has been counter-productive.

Blatche was on the bench til the trade. He broke through over the summer before the season.

In fairness, much as I can't stand Flip's coaching, Blatche seems to be a big fan of Flip. I'll give you that.

Of course, there's nothing Flip can do to stop McGee from improving and there's always the chance that benching McGee makes him angry and more determined to work that much harder.

MY BELIEF is that it is no matter how good McGee actually is, no matter how much he improves, and no matter how much more skilled he gets; Flip won't respect him or his game. He'll dismiss it as style over substance, as do MOST who post here.

I remember years ago when only Dat and nate and a smitten of others thought Haywood was any good. I remember folks HATING BLATCHE and WANTING HIM TRADED for years.

Right now you have a 22-yr old freak of an athlete who, quite frankly, has a much higher upside than Andray Blatche, and folks are hating him for not being a banger. Flip needs to look at defensive rebounding percentage and rebounding rates and then talk about McGee's "style". He needs to see how many other 22-yr olds rebound as well as McGee. Then he needs to consider if this guy rebounds that well doing it all wrong, what the hell would he do as a player who gets 12-15 every night?

I just don't like knocking the player this early in the game.

I also don't like Hilton Armstrong starting. I rarely disagree with doclinkin, and when I do most of the time he's right and I'm wrong; but this feeling I have right now is the very same feeling I had when the Wizards acquired Fabricio Oberto. I just KNEW his presence meant less for both Blatche and McGee. Blatche broke through because of years and ability. McGee now has not only Armstrong but also Yi to compete against for minutes, as well as Seraphin.

This coach has too many other ways to go besides a guy who he flat doesn't believe in.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My optimism has taken a huge hit as well, but only because of Flip Saunders.

Javale might not be what Flip wants him to be. Flip has consistently seen things the way I hoped he wouldn't.

Jeez CCJ, how long are you going to continue to absolve McGee for his shortcomings? He's the pits on defense and hasn't shown an iota of improvement.

I pray to god Saunders actually does the right thing and holds the kid accountable for his lack of effort, because if Javale earns the role of started by default, this team is going to be in a world of trouble.

How many years did you want Haywood and/or Blatche gone for their lack of improvement/bad character?

McGee's in his third season under his third coach, and this doesn't seem like the right system or coach for McGee. I hope you can tell what a lack of effort is better than what I perceive to be a genuine lack of faith in the coach and some genuine animus between the two.

If Hilton Armstrong starts this team is in a world of trouble.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm just fine with these comments. McGee hasn't really matured at all throughout his time in the NBA. He still makes the same crappy mistakes that should be fairly correctable. He still tries to play like a guard when he's a friggin 7-footer. He hasn't developed any offensive post moves, etc.

If behind-the-scenes coaching and instruction hasn't done anything to resolve those issues, then maybe bringing it to the public will make an impact.

I'm not fine with the comments because I don't believe in the coach any more.

Flip puts guys on front street and brings up what they do wrong, but what has Flip ever been held accountable for? When has he ever admitted to making a mistake. This is the same coach that didn't play McGee all game and then berated Javale for not saving the day when inserted with 0.5 seconds.

What post moves did Manute Bol have? Why take a bean pole and tell it it's a mighty oak? Geez ...

McGee's a guy they just need to trade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion right now. It would have been a whole lot easier to just say everything's peachy keen. I don't want to rock the boat. But, I am comfortable disagreeing with pretty much everybody on this one.

Time will tell.

If I am wrong, actually, that's a great thing. More power to Flip and Hilton Armstrong, if he proves to be a defender and rebounder and a player of substance. Great if all the players are on board and the team prospers. Great for Flip and the team. I will be glad to say I'm wrong if that goes down. (However, if there is a morale problem and losing I will point to the top, coaching.)

As for this board, offering a different view often goes like this. Just like saying Blair would be good or Millsap would be good, sometimes my solitary view is right. This time, I don't like at all what Flip is saying. Not at all. It is not good for the team for him to say that, IMO.

We will see how things turn out. For now, that's the LAST post I respond to on McGee or Flip for a while. No need getting upset about it. You who disagree have every right to think I've got it wrong.

[crackhed]

javale's gonna be just fine

[willbcocks]

DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion right now. It would have been a whole lot easier to just say everything's peachy keen. I don't want to rock the boat. But, I am comfortable disagreeing with pretty much everybody on this one.

Time will tell.

If I am wrong, actually, that's a great thing. More power to Flip and Hilton Armstrong, if he proves to be a defender and rebounder and a player of substance. Great if all the players are on board.

As for this board, offering a different view often goes like this. Just like saying Blair would be good or Millsap would be good, sometimes my solitary view is right. This time, I don't like at all what Flip is saying. Not at all. It is not good for the team for him to say that, IMO.

We will see how things turn out. For now, that's the LAST post I respond to on McGee or Flip for a while. No need getting upset about it. You who disagree have every right to think I've got it wrong.

I think that "limb" you're out on has more people on it than you think. Half the people in this thread are saying the same thing about McGee.

And as for Blair, 90% of this board, and of every single other board on RealGM, was cheering as Blair dropped, hoping their teams could pick him up. But perhaps you were alone among the majority somehow.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

willbcocks, I was talking about Blair at #5 being worth the pick. (Prior to the reports about knee concerns). I said he was better than most lottery picks. I talked about Blair being able to start at C. He would be a great STARTER for this team next Blatche. I said at the time of his draft I'd rather have Blair than Jamison. That's the extent to which I went on a limb.

Even a blind squirrel should have been able to see Dejuan as THE pick for the Wizards at 32 (or was it 33?). EVERYBODY wanted Blair in round two ... except EG.

[willbcocks]

If that's what you're arguing, then you might want to hold off on the "sometimes my solitary view is right" back patting until he's proven himself one of the top 5 players in that draft. Griffin, Harden, Evans, Curry, Rubio--if I recall these were the top five on the board for most of the people here (though not in that order).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Need, willbcocks. I said he was a worthy pick at 5. That's not the same as he's the fifth best player.

Comparing him to Griffin and Evans is moot--they went before him. So did Harden.

I said the best pick was Curry. Said it was ludicrous to give up the pick to get Foye--who Curry was better than the second he got drafted.

My point is willbocock, that I think you're just trying to pick a fight with me and I think I'm done. I say stuff guys like you want to shoot down any chance you get. I don't appreciate your point of view any more than you appreciate mine, it seems.