Discussing Other Teams' Moves

[verbal8]

Thinking back to the Lakers trade of Odom for low pix, I'm leaning toward them just being cheap. I think they know they're not getting Howard and figure they won't compete for a championship, so why not save a boatload of salary and lux tax? It wouldn't surprise me - especially if they amnesty Artest.

I think the most likely amnesty candidate is Walton. Although it could be cheap to amnesty Artest if he got claimed in the waivers.

[montestewart]

Knicks would have four potential all stars (Crawford's a stretch, but under D'Antoni, who knows?) and Bibby would be their starting PG? And virtually no depth? I guess it might be entertaining for awhile, but it also might miss the playoffs, earning a higher draft pick for some lucky team other than the Knicks.

I would sort of expect Baron Davis to end up in NY, even with Bibby. If Cleveland dumps him, NY seems like the right place for someone with Davis' talents. No D, run and gun is what that guy does.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... ith_Knicks
Looks like you were right. I wonder if Davis is a stopgap and they try for Nash next year w/ ML? Fill in holes w/ low-budget Singleton/DS type players?

[LyricalRico]

Yet another Chris Paul trade turned down by the league. Rumors of NOH already being contracted in the minds of the league looking more and more credible.

But if not, what about this:

UTA trades: Harris, Milsap, Okur, and picks from the Deron-to-NJ trade
NOH trades: Paul and Okafor

The Hornets get 2 young starters, a large expiring, and picks. The Jazz add a superstar PG to lead their young team.

[sfam]

Knicks would have four potential all stars (Crawford's a stretch, but under D'Antoni, who knows?) and Bibby would be their starting PG? And virtually no depth? I guess it might be entertaining for awhile, but it also might miss the playoffs, earning a higher draft pick for some lucky team other than the Knicks.

I would sort of expect Baron Davis to end up in NY, even with Bibby. If Cleveland dumps him, NY seems like the right place for someone with Davis' talents. No D, run and gun is what that guy does.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... ith_Knicks
Looks like you were right. I wonder if Davis is a stopgap and they try for Nash next year w/ ML? Fill in holes w/ low-budget Singleton/DS type players?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day - I think my guess is sort of the same here

[sfam]

Hey CCJ...do you not see the difference between the offer from the Clips and the Lakers/Rockets?

Gordon, Kaman, Aminu, and Minny's first? Now that's an offer ladies and gents!

Gordon is the only player of consequence in this trade, I really don't see how it's that much better than what the Rockets and Lakers put together.

I think what really derailed the Lakers deal was the fact that it would have resulted in way too much salary cap savings for LA.

I'd agree with this AND add that what really derailed it was the belief that if LA got Chris Paul, they would also get Dwight Howard. Whether or not that's true, rules are there for a reason. By doing the, the NBA proper has just shown everyone what a mockery their ownership of NO really is. The team needs to be disbanded because nobody is going to pay a plug nickel for it.

[sfam]

Yet another Chris Paul trade turned down by the league. Rumors of NOH already being contracted in the minds of the league looking more and more credible.

But if not, what about this:

UTA trades: Harris, Milsap, Okur, and picks from the Deron-to-NJ trade
NOH trades: Paul and Okafor

The Hornets get 2 young starters, a large expiring, and picks. The Jazz add a superstar PG to lead their young team.

The problem here is Paul doesn't have to sign an extension. If Paul doesn't want to play there, the trade won't happen. You gotta wonder how many teams are left that Paul would actually sign an extension for.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What I see TGW is Stern is doing whatever he pleases; and, there is nothing Chris Paul, or Jim Buss, or Donald Sterling, or anybody else that is not the Commissioner can do about it.

EDITED to add: I agree with Bill Simmons on David Stern

sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Impossible NOT to think of this video when thinking about David Stern's performance these past 4 days:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFKRUGfJm78[/youtube][/quote]

[Nivek]

I think the original 3-way trade involving Chris Paul was better for the Hornets than the reported offer from the Clippers. Bright side, I guess, is that Kaman is an expiring. Still, the Hornets would be essentially trading Paul for Eric Gordon -- who they would have to re-sign -- a 1st round pick of dubious value and cap space.

It's moot if there's truth to the latest reports that the Clippers-Hornets deal is dead.

[montestewart]

What I see TGW is Stern is doing whatever he pleases and there is nothing Chris Paul or Jim Buss or Donald Sterling or anybody else that is not the Commissioner can do about it.

And those teams willing to trade for Paul and that he would like to play for may not be able to sign him as a FA, thus minimizing his employment options. It's like NO is being run by the league not as a franchise trying to compete, but as policing mechanism

[LyricalRico]

I think the original 3-way trade involving Chris Paul was better for the Hornets than the reported offer from the Clippers.

Same here.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Players are often called thugs but Stern is straight up gangster when it comes to handling marquee talent IMO, monte.

I think in some ways David Stern is like Colonel Tom Parker. That man locked Elvis into years and years worth of films that Presley grew to hate, but he could not stop making them while under contract.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Tom_Parker

Parker's management of Presley defined the role of masterminding talent management which involved every facet of his life and was seen as central to the astonishing success of Presley's career. The "Colonel" displayed a ruthless devotion to his client's interests and took far more than the traditional 10 percent of his earnings (reaching up to 50 percent by the end of Presley's life). Presley said of Parker: "I don't think I would have been very big with another man. Because he's a very smart man." [2] For many years Parker falsely claimed to have been U.S.-born, but it eventually emerged that he was born in Breda, Netherlands. Following the death of his famous client, Parker would become one of the most despised men in show business.

The past few days, IMO Stern has started to control NBA players and teams the same way Louis B. Mayer controlled actors when he was MGM boss.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_B._Mayer#MGM_boss

Under Mayer, MGM produced many successful films with high earning stars, including Greta Garbo, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy, Katharine Hepburn, Lon Chaney, Joan Crawford, Jean Harlow, Judy Garland and many others. Mayer was ruthless when negotiating to keep his actors' salaries low even using blackmail to pay Gable below his worth,[15] although Katharine Hepburn referred to him as a "nice man" and claimed she personally negotiated many of her contracts with Mayer. Elizabeth Taylor described Mayer as a monster,[16] but other actors, such as Robert Taylor,[15] Greer Garson,[17]:260 and Hedy Lamarr,[18] viewed him as a father figure.

The comparison of Stern with Mayer is that some loved him, and some hated him; but all were under his absolute authority. The actual actors had very little freedom once under contract. Stern's got that kind of control now.

I know a lot of people love David Stern, but I believe he's morphing into a combination of Vince McMahon, Col Tom Parker, and Louis B Mayer. [b]Stern puts on a great show, but he does so on the sweat of others, and Stern comes away with the glory and most of the money. He's in charge and he's the only one with a brain--is David Stern's convincing self-portrayal that the media has enhanced."

[Ruzious]

What I see TGW is Stern is doing whatever he pleases; and, there is nothing Chris Paul, or Jim Buss, or Donald Sterling, or anybody else that is not the Commissioner can do about it.

EDITED to add: I agree with Bill Simmons on David Stern

sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Impossible NOT to think of this video when thinking about David Stern's performance these past 4 days:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFKRUGfJm78[/youtube]

[/quote]
LOL, that was funny. And it's true.

[TGW]

I'm not sure WTF is going on with Stern and this Paul situation--could it be that the other teams rejected the trade again? That's what I heard at least...that the Hornets wanted Bledsoe, the Clips said no, and the owner rejected. So I'm not 100% sure this is Stern's fault...he may be just conveying the feelings of the owners. Not trying to defend Stern at all....this whole situation is utterly ridiculous and he got himself into it...but maybe it's not ENTIRELY his fault.

And lol at that video.

[Rafael122]

I think David Stern is making Chris Paul the scapegoat. Lebron and Bosh going to Miami, Melo basically forcing his way to New York. Paul wants to go to one of the LA teams or New York and Stern is poo pooing any effort to have Chris in a place where he wants to be. Only reason I can think of, the 3 way trade w/the Rockets and Lakers, the Hornets would have made out like bandits. The trade proposal from the Clippers, a kings ransom. This isn't about basketball. It's personal.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Exactly, Rafael122, it is personal.

Why is it the Commissioner can be vindictive and Dan Gilbert can be vindictive but the players are called thugs and they are called out for engineering trades to the cities where they want to be; but only after playing for several seasons in one city?

(I know Paul is still under contract and the league owns the Hornets--my point is Chris Paul is not being shown any respect that most guys who have played as long as he has do receive.)

[DCZards]

Man, that proposed trade sending Kaman, Gordon, Aminu and Minny's first pick to the Hornets for Paul is an outright stick up...and now the Hornets are also reportedly insisting on Eric Bledsoe. The Clippers would be crazy to give up all that for Paul. And I definitely understand the Clips saying that the Hornets have to choose between the Minny pick or Gordon.

[montestewart]

Exactly, Rafael122, it is personal.

Why is it the Commissioner can be vindictive and Dan Gilbert can be vindictive but the players are called thugs and they are called out for engineering trades to the cities where they want to be; but only after playing for several seasons in one city?

(I know Paul is still under contract and the league owns the Hornets--my point is Chris Paul is not being shown any respect that most guys who have played as long as he has do receive.)

This is the kind of stuff that allowed some observers (Bryant Gumbal most obviously) to raise the issue of race, and it's hard not to consider it. Your mention of Parker and Mayer reminds that sometimes it's just about the superior-subordinate relationship, regardless of race, and some people are just gonna be jerks regardless. Still, the seemingly petty imperiousness and the flabbergasted anger sends a really confusing and negative message.

[Nivek]

Interesting perspective, Zards. I don't see it as a stick-up at all -- just the opposite. Gordon's the only worthwhile player in going to New Orleans, and they'd still have to re-sign him after the season. Kaman is colossally overrated, but at least he's expiring. The Minny pick should be a good player.

Still, New Orleans would be giving up Chris Paul for Gordon, a draft pick and cap room. That's not much for a player of Paul's caliber.

[verbal8]

The league ownership of New Orleans is looking worse than the Hawks ownership mess a few years back. I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy the franchise in it's current state.

[montestewart]

Interesting perspective, Zards. I don't see it as a stick-up at all -- just the opposite. Gordon's the only worthwhile player in going to New Orleans, and they'd still have to re-sign him after the season. Kaman is colossally overrated, but at least he's expiring. The Minny pick should be a good player.

Still, New Orleans would be giving up Chris Paul for Gordon, a draft pick and cap room. That's not much for a player of Paul's caliber.

I agree, it's definitely not too much, but the Clippers might figure out a way to just sign him after the season anyway, and there are only so many trade partners, as few teams will trade much knowing he'll likely not sign an extension with them. NO has to get some perspective on how much value they can expect to get back.