How do you fix this team?

[Rafael122]

Blatche needs to lose some weight, he looked heavy all year. I also think he needs to work on his inside game more, he relied way too much on his jump shot. I wouldn't want to trade him, but he's the first guy I'd look to trade in any scenario.

[Ed Wood]

I'm not sure I would fall into the category of "Blatche haters" (I wouldn't assign the label to myself but what's self-reflection to the man who created Glen or Glenda?) but I think where you and Hands have me is that I think the leaguewide perception of Blatche is probably more in line with the hater position. Too many teams around the league are either in the process of dealing with image issues or still haunted by the ghost of talent unrealized and taking a chance on Blatche would be a very hard sell to a lot of fan bases and ownership groups.

What that would mean is that anybody trading for Blatche would have to pick up something else in the process to justify the move. I don't think Andray is a guy a team can spin as a low risk roll of the dice like Washington did with Yi this year and particularly now that the draft has thinned out the Wizards just don't have much they can afford to give up to move him, and giving up assets in general is a bad idea for the team right now.

I would like to see the team deleverage itself from his offensive contributions, however, which (with luck) picking up someone like Barnes or Williams in the draft should allow. With players like Wall and, say, Williams in the starting five Andray's ability to use possessions wouldn't be especially useful but in a bench role carrying a bunch of roleplayers it would be.

I still ultimately want to move him but really at this point, and I think I remember taking this position exactly last year, (that the cost to trade him would exceed the benefit) but I guess I'm there again, assuming no attractive offers are forthcoming, he's probably not going to be traded.

edit: Unless he is the guy Wall has been passive-aggressively upbraiding through the press in which case Ernie will get him out of town if he has to carry Andray piggyback the entire way.

[no D in Hibachi]

*Noah (Lafayette, CA)*: David u rock! Who is the most underachieving and or overachieving person in the NBA?
David Thorpe [12:18 PM] : Blatche gets my underachieving award. He should be an MVP candidate...

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37878

[JonathanJoseph]

I'm not sure I would fall into the category of "Blatche haters" (I wouldn't assign the label to myself but what's self-reflection to the man who created Glen or Glenda?) but I think where you and Hands have me is that I think the leaguewide perception of Blatche is probably more in line with the hater position. Too many teams around the league are either in the process of dealing with image issues or still haunted by the ghost of talent unrealized and taking a chance on Blatche would be a very hard sell to a lot of fan bases and ownership groups.

What that would mean is that anybody trading for Blatche would have to pick up something else in the process to justify the move. I don't think Andray is a guy a team can spin as a low risk roll of the dice like Washington did with Yi this year and particularly now that the draft has thinned out the Wizards just don't have much they can afford to give up to move him, and giving up assets in general is a bad idea for the team right now.

I would like to see the team deleverage itself from his offensive contributions, however, which (with luck) picking up someone like Barnes or Williams in the draft should allow. With players like Wall and, say, Williams in the starting five Andray's ability to use possessions wouldn't be especially useful but in a bench role carrying a bunch of roleplayers it would be.

I still ultimately want to move him but really at this point, and I think I remember taking this position exactly last year, (that the cost to trade him would exceed the benefit) but I guess I'm there again, assuming no attractive offers are forthcoming, he's probably not going to be traded.

edit: Unless he is the guy Wall has been passive-aggressively upbraiding through the press in which case Ernie will get him out of town if he has to carry Andray piggyback the entire way.

Agree with some of this, but not all.

Yes, Blatche's reputation seems to have taken a hit around the league and that either means one of two scenarios. GMs are down on Blatche and only willing to trade pennies on the dollar for him. Or, GMs are still high on his upside and want Blatche and would target him at pennies on the dollar. Bottom line is that even if you wanted to trade Blatche, never sell low.

I still highly doubt that Blatche's stock is nearly as low as most of you. If Blatche only fulfills 75% of his potential, he can still be a 25/11/3/3/2 kind of player and plenty if not most teams are likely willing to take a flyer on that given his reasonable contract. As bad as Blatche's rep has been, I don't think it's that much worse than Zach Randolph, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Demarcus Cousins or others with perceived attitude problems. I think most every team in the league would be willing to take a chance on Cousins and his rep isn't any better or worse.

Conversely, I'd like to see the team run the offense MORE through Blatche on the block. I fault Flip for LETTING Dray find himself on the wing so often. The common denominator I saw, both last season and this during Blatche's hot streak, was initiating the offense through the set that looks to get Blatche the ball on the block. START the offense there. A Wall/Blatche P-n-R could be deadly as well. I think Flip could have done a better job of putting Blatche in a position to utilize his strengths.

[Nivek]

Flip ran a TON of stuff designed to get Blatche the ball in the post. But, Blatche wouldn't hold the position. By the time he "set up" further out than he should have, stepped out to catch the ball (instead of pinning his man behind him), then pivoted to face up he was at the 3pt line way too often. I'm reasonably confident that the coaches weren't encouraging him to float to the perimeter on post-up sets. Just like I'm reasonably confident they weren't telling him to stand there rooted to the floor on defensive pick & roll sets while the ball handler dribbles past him unimpeded AND the big rolls to the paint undefended. (On the other hand, the coaches let him play through those kinds of plays, which sorta suggests they at least tolerated crap plays from him.)

Is it fixable? Sure. Which sorta begs the question about why Blatche hasn't fixed it during 6 seasons. Some of it's on Blatche; some on the coaching staff for allowing him to get away with sloppy play. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing coaches often do when players have ability. And Blatche, does have ability. Unharnessed, undisciplined, immature ability, but still ability.

I don't "hate" Blatche, but I'd trade him and let someone else try to build a winner with that "sloppy" ability. Maybe they can get him playing right, maybe not. I'm thinking not.

That said, I doubt he's getting moved anytime soon, so I'm pulling for him to learn how to actually play the game. There's nothing wrong with him that can't be fixed by conditioning, lifting weights, and a different mental approach to the game.

[JonathanJoseph]

Flip ran a TON of stuff designed to get Blatche the ball in the post. But, Blatche wouldn't hold the position. By the time he "set up" further out than he should have, stepped out to catch the ball (instead of pinning his man behind him), then pivoted to face up he was at the 3pt line way too often. I'm reasonably confident that the coaches weren't encouraging him to float to the perimeter on post-up sets. Just like I'm reasonably confident they weren't telling him to stand there rooted to the floor on defensive pick & roll sets while the ball handler dribbles past him unimpeded AND the big rolls to the paint undefended. (On the other hand, the coaches let him play through those kinds of plays, which sorta suggests they at least tolerated crap plays from him.)

Is it fixable? Sure. Which sorta begs the question about why Blatche hasn't fixed it during 6 seasons. Some of it's on Blatche; some on the coaching staff for allowing him to get away with sloppy play. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing coaches often do when players have ability. And Blatche, does have ability. Unharnessed, undisciplined, immature ability, but still ability.

I don't "hate" Blatche, but I'd trade him and let someone else try to build a winner with that "sloppy" ability. Maybe they can get him playing right, maybe not. I'm thinking not.

That said, I doubt he's getting moved anytime soon, so I'm pulling for him to learn how to actually play the game. There's nothing wrong with him that can't be fixed by conditioning, lifting weights, and a different mental approach to the game.

Yup

[no D in Hibachi]

I still highly doubt that Blatche's stock is nearly as low as most of you. If Blatche only fulfills 75% of his potential, he can still be a 25/11/3/3/2 kind of player and plenty if not most teams are likely willing to take a flyer on that given his reasonable contract.

There have only been 15 seasons where a player has averaged 25p/11r/3a/2b. Shaq, Jabbar, Robinson, Duncan, Olajuwan, Ewing, McAdoo are the only players to ever accomplish a season equivalent to 75% of Blatches potential.

[DMVleGeND]

Flip ran a TON of stuff designed to get Blatche the ball in the post. But, Blatche wouldn't hold the position. By the time he "set up" further out than he should have, stepped out to catch the ball (instead of pinning his man behind him), then pivoted to face up he was at the 3pt line way too often. I'm reasonably confident that the coaches weren't encouraging him to float to the perimeter on post-up sets. Just like I'm reasonably confident they weren't telling him to stand there rooted to the floor on defensive pick & roll sets while the ball handler dribbles past him unimpeded AND the big rolls to the paint undefended. (On the other hand, the coaches let him play through those kinds of plays, which sorta suggests they at least tolerated crap plays from him.)

Is it fixable? Sure. Which sorta begs the question about why Blatche hasn't fixed it during 6 seasons. Some of it's on Blatche; some on the coaching staff for allowing him to get away with sloppy play. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing coaches often do when players have ability. And Blatche, does have ability. Unharnessed, undisciplined, immature ability, but still ability.

I don't "hate" Blatche, but I'd trade him and let someone else try to build a winner with that "sloppy" ability. Maybe they can get him playing right, maybe not. I'm thinking not.

That said, I doubt he's getting moved anytime soon, so I'm pulling for him to learn how to actually play the game. There's nothing wrong with him that can't be fixed by conditioning, lifting weights, and a different mental approach to the game.

Yup

+1000

I'm a Blatche fan, but I've been talking about ow bad his defense has been for the past couple of games. He hasn't been rotating, doesn't try to cut off the guards lane when they get in the paint, and doesn't try hard enough to seal his man off for the defensive rebound. And his pick & roll defense has been TERRIBLE, and I blame a large part of this on the coaching staff. That's why earlier I said I don't think Flip is the right coach for this team in the long haul. He doesn't hold his players accountable (except for McGee earlier in the year), and he doesn't stress defense enough. Blatche makes the same mistakes on defense over and over again, but it's like the coaching staff isn't telling him anything because he does it over and over again. I would like to see Flip treat Blatche like he treated McGee earlier in the year.

[Hoopalotta]

edit: Unless he is the guy Wall has been passive-aggressively upbraiding through the press in which case Ernie will get him out of town if he has to carry Andray piggyback the entire way.

I'm pretty sure that it was, especially as there was one quote when Blatche started to play better where Wall said something loosely to the effect of "this is the guy who I was hoping to play with/thought I'd be playing with when I got here". Something like that; I don't think I'll be able to find it, but it was on the Mike Lee Blog from maybe two or so weeks back. Anyway, it could be reverse engineered to strongly infer "...because, ya know, he was turrible before. Just turrible".

[JonathanJoseph]

I still highly doubt that Blatche's stock is nearly as low as most of you. If Blatche only fulfills 75% of his potential, he can still be a 25/11/3/3/2 kind of player and plenty if not most teams are likely willing to take a flyer on that given his reasonable contract.

There have only been 15 seasons where a player has averaged 25p/11r/3a/2b. Shaq, Jabbar, Robinson, Duncan, Olajuwan, Ewing, McAdoo are the only players to ever accomplish a season equivalent to 75% of Blatches potential.

That was 2 steals rather than blocks but you illustrate my point. Blatche's April averages were 23.6ppg/10.3rpg/1.8apg/2.1spg/1.3bpg. (Before anyone chimes in with the word "inefficient", this was on 50.7% FG). Let's put Blatche's last month into perspective.

The total list of players to average 23/11/2/2/2 in a season:
David Robinson
Hakeem

The total list of players to average 23/11/2/2 (2 assists/steals) in a season:
David Robinson
Hakeem

The total list of players to average 23/11/2/2 (2 assists/blocks) in a season:
Shaq
KG
Kareem
David Robinson
Tim Duncan
Bob MacAdoo
Hakeem
Elvin Hayes
Bob Lanier
Patrick Ewing

If he doesn't improve at all but can become merely consistent with his late-year play he can be that good. I'm not minimizing the mental hurdles required to get there, but I am willing to be VERY patient with that on a rebuilding team and a friendly contract.

[Nivek]

JJ -- Something tells me that the list of guys who averaged those numbers for 8 games is a lot longer than the list of guys who averaged it for 70+ games. Blatche played well for the past couple weeks. That'd be cause for more excitement if it hadn't been preceded by 6 frustrating seasons.

[hands11]

That was my point Kevin, that Andray has been a high volume, low efficiency scorer for years and at this point you have to assume that he will continue to be both, whatever he's done over the last ten games.

You're making me look bad in front of my fiends, dad. VVV

Feb to April is like 34 games.

He played 63 this year.

22 games for Blatche, actually. 691 total minutes.

Fair enough. That is a third of his season. Not 10 games of 82

[hands11]

I'm not sure I would fall into the category of "Blatche haters" (I wouldn't assign the label to myself but what's self-reflection to the man who created Glen or Glenda?) but I think where you and Hands have me is that I think the leaguewide perception of Blatche is probably more in line with the hater position. Too many teams around the league are either in the process of dealing with image issues or still haunted by the ghost of talent unrealized and taking a chance on Blatche would be a very hard sell to a lot of fan bases and ownership groups.

What that would mean is that anybody trading for Blatche would have to pick up something else in the process to justify the move. I don't think Andray is a guy a team can spin as a low risk roll of the dice like Washington did with Yi this year and particularly now that the draft has thinned out the Wizards just don't have much they can afford to give up to move him, and giving up assets in general is a bad idea for the team right now.

I would like to see the team deleverage itself from his offensive contributions, however, which (with luck) picking up someone like Barnes or Williams in the draft should allow. With players like Wall and, say, Williams in the starting five Andray's ability to use possessions wouldn't be especially useful but in a bench role carrying a bunch of roleplayers it would be.

I still ultimately want to move him but really at this point, and I think I remember taking this position exactly last year, (that the cost to trade him would exceed the benefit) but I guess I'm there again, assuming no attractive offers are forthcoming, he's probably not going to be traded.

edit: Unless he is the guy Wall has been passive-aggressively upbraiding through the press in which case Ernie will get him out of town if he has to carry Andray piggyback the entire way.

I like the angle you took on this one. Good points for evaluating Drays value to other teams. Just another reason to keep him for now. I just think it is a big deal to give him a chance with this new younger team with Booker, Wall, etc. At his age, I think he could catch his stride with this new group. Add that to what you just said and it seems like a clear decision that they should keep him.

The decision if they should move him later can't be made until ... well... later.

[JonathanJoseph]

JJ -- Something tells me that the list of guys who averaged those numbers for 8 games is a lot longer than the list of guys who averaged it for 70+ games. Blatche played well for the past couple weeks. That'd be cause for more excitement if it hadn't been preceded by 6 frustrating seasons.

That's damning with faint praise. I never once implied it was the same thing as doing it for a season. I'm sure the month-long list is longer but we're still talking about going from only Hall of Famers to probable all-stars.

edit: The number of players who have averaged 23/11/2/2 (assists/blks) before they turned 25:

Shaq
Bob McAdoo
David Robinson
Tim Duncan
Hakeem

MOST of the HOF players on that list were older than Blatche when they turned in those seasons. Patience....

[JonathanJoseph]

Let's take Blatche's entire (very disappointing, mind you) season into context.

Other players who have averaged 17/8/2/1 at 24 y/o or younger:

Bob McAdoo
Shaq
Barkley
Dirk
David Robinson
Elton Brand
Shawn Marion
KG
Shawn Kemp
Marques Johnson
Jermaine O'Neal
Bill Walton
Chris Bosh
Larry Nance
Bill Cartwright
Spencer Haywood
Hakeem
Chris Webber
Shareef Abdur Raheem
Pau Gasol
Brook Lopez
Buck Williams
Alvan Adams
Joe Barry Carroll
Pervis Ellison
Vin Baker
Ralph Sampson
Clarence Witherspoon
Derrick Coleman
Christian Laettner
Lionel Simmons
Patrick Ewing

We're still talking about a pretty short list and one that includes mostly all-stars and mostly multiple time allstars.

Blatche's 10/11 post-allstar break comps are 19.8/8.5/2.4/1.7 on 49% FG. Here's the list of <24 year old's who've done 20/8/3/49% for a season.

Kareem
The Big O
Barkley
Grant Hill
Tim Duncan
KG
Blake Griffin
Larry Johnson
Chris Webber
Terry Dischinger
Bob Lanier
Shaq
Bernard King
Magic Johnson

This is still heady company. Not saying Blatche is there yet, but it seems clear to me that he can get there.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree with Nivek's conclusion that Blatche would be quite good with added conditioning, weightlifting, and a good mental approach. Flip Saunders and other have allowed some of Andray's inefficient or lazy ways to go unchecked. A different coach who might allocate minutes according to his defensive contribution and his rebounding effort, and not simply rely on Blatche's talent is what Andray requires as well to reach his potential.

Blatche is around the same size as LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge didn't show as much game prior to this season. The precedent for improvement well into a career is there. Blatche hasn't been as accurate and Aldridge, but he's a better rebounder and shotblocker. There's no reason why Andray cannot be the same caliber player with the improvements above.

I think the best approach would be to trade him, solely because I am not crazy about him next to McGee. However, in the future if the right Blatche shows up he's a keeper. He did improve one off season. No reason to say he won't do it again.

[hands11]

Flip ran a TON of stuff designed to get Blatche the ball in the post. But, Blatche wouldn't hold the position. By the time he "set up" further out than he should have, stepped out to catch the ball (instead of pinning his man behind him), then pivoted to face up he was at the 3pt line way too often. I'm reasonably confident that the coaches weren't encouraging him to float to the perimeter on post-up sets. Just like I'm reasonably confident they weren't telling him to stand there rooted to the floor on defensive pick & roll sets while the ball handler dribbles past him unimpeded AND the big rolls to the paint undefended. (On the other hand, the coaches let him play through those kinds of plays, which sorta suggests they at least tolerated crap plays from him.)

Is it fixable? Sure. Which sorta begs the question about why Blatche hasn't fixed it during 6 seasons. Some of it's on Blatche; some on the coaching staff for allowing him to get away with sloppy play. Unfortunately, it's the kind of thing coaches often do when players have ability. And Blatche, does have ability. Unharnessed, undisciplined, immature ability, but still ability.

I don't "hate" Blatche, but I'd trade him and let someone else try to build a winner with that "sloppy" ability. Maybe they can get him playing right, maybe not. I'm thinking not.

That said, I doubt he's getting moved anytime soon, so I'm pulling for him to learn how to actually play the game. There's nothing wrong with him that can't be fixed by conditioning, lifting weights, and a different mental approach to the game.

Not intended to be a fact.

Again. Look what Nick did after all had given up hope of him ever getting a clue. In a year of many changes and surprises, it would be hard to argue that Nick 2.0 wasnt the biggest. Nick age 24 vs Nick age 25. Dray can do the same.

[hands11]

I still highly doubt that Blatche's stock is nearly as low as most of you. If Blatche only fulfills 75% of his potential, he can still be a 25/11/3/3/2 kind of player and plenty if not most teams are likely willing to take a flyer on that given his reasonable contract.

There have only been 15 seasons where a player has averaged 25p/11r/3a/2b. Shaq, Jabbar, Robinson, Duncan, Olajuwan, Ewing, McAdoo are the only players to ever accomplish a season equivalent to 75% of Blatches potential.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... ay-blatche

Checking his trend line I would be happy with

19/10/2.5/1 on that feb-apr he ended the year with. what was it? .530 ? in 35 minutes

[nate33]

1. Fire Ernie, Hire me.

2. Fire Flip. Bring in a young defensive minded coach who can relate to a young roster.

3. 5th pick - Draft G Kemba Walker

4. Trade ATL pick / C Kevin Seraphin for Anderson Varejao (use cap room to take on salary)

5. 2nd rd pick - Draft G David Lighty

6. Sign FA Shane Battier.

New lineup:

PF Andray Blatche / Trevor Booker / CBA'er
SF Shane Battier / Rashard Lewis / CBA'er
CE Javale McGee / Anderson Varejao / CBA'er
SG Jordan Crawford / Othyus Jeffers / David Lighty
PG John Wall / Kemba Walker

Battier, Varejao & Walker collectively raise the b-ball IQ ten fold. Varejao & Battier bring infectious veteran defensive intensity which hopefully rubs off on teammates. Team goes 9-10 deep with a very solid bench. Walker backups up both guard spots and is interchangeable with both Crawford & Wall.

Win 35-40 games, give the young kiddies a taste of winning basketball and hopefully change the losing culture which has permeated the franchise for the last few years.

The Seraphin for Varajeo deal pretty much eliminates our 2012 cap room. I don't really like the move, but there's some logic in it if you assume that our chances in 2012 are slim anyhow. But if we do it, I figure we should go ahead and resign Nick Young while we're at it. No sense letting decent young talent walk out the door if we're giving up on future cap space anyhow. We wouldn't have money left for Battier, but I figure Maurice Evans isn't that much worse and he's a heck of a lot cheaper. I'd rather have Evans + Young than an aging Battier.

Then use the #5 pick on a swing man, BPA, or trade for a 2012 pick.

[hands11]

So what happen to the edit post button ?