2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[hands11]

ED

I think everyone started off talking about Ves as a SF because that is what he was and few knew much about him. We watch video of him defending the 3 and debated if he could do it in the NBA. Hell, I can remember people saying no way he can play PF, he would get pushed around. Because it was unclear were he would play if one of the main reason people didn't like the pick. He was a project. People would post line ups or the team and Ves would be a back up SF. It was after we saw him play at PF that people started to see that he could. Then he was put at center. I don't think there were many if not any here who saw that coming. Ves is listed at 6-11 240 and he is 22 years old. He played several years of international ball. But this isn't really about Ves. But I can see how he would be involved in the conversation.

I guess the first question is, what position do you see Davis playing?

As to why that one game maters. Because that is the closest you can see to what he will be up against in the NBA. Actually, what he is going to face will be a lot better then that.

Here is another concern of mine. I hear he grow 8 inches in 8 months. That is amazing. Are there any health concerns regarding this ? I had a 3 or 4 inch growth spurt one summer and I ended up on crutches.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/stor ... ba-stardom

There is some good stuff in here at address some of my concerns. The kid came out of no where. That is very unique. There isn't a lot on him because of that.

"It may take a while, it may not happen inside of the first/rookie contract, but hopefully someone in the league will figure out how to build around Davis so he has the same impact in the NBA that he had in college"

So we have some saying Camby. Some saying KG. That is a huge swing. If we are talking KG, he has a lot of offense to develop.

It is going to greatly depend on where he lands. KG came to a bad team and had the green light to shoot and develop his game. Camby also went to a team where he started that was bad. He got injured and finally got is together in year 4 or 5.

Look. Because he has a short track record I just want to look more closely. You know how the media loves to build up a story and it is easy to get sucked into it. I am just trying to critically look at this.

I'm not against the kid. I'm trying to project where he plays. What he has. What game will translate. How long will it be before he can start on a good team. What could you get for him that could fit better in the mean time. ie. What is the opportunity cost. I'm trying to take the blinders off.

[nate33]

I think with Davis the Wizards would end up starting Vesely at SF, Davis at PF, and Nene at C. It would be sort of similar to the Lakers having Odom, Gasol, and Bynum

I don't see them doing that very often because of the lack of perimeter shooting and ball-handling on offense, but that would be a SICK end-of-the-game lineup if we needed a stop. With Wall at PG, that might be the quickest, longest group of defenders ever assembled.

[truwizfan4evr]

Why the bad talk on ANthony Davis? Sound like he being consider a bust before he even plays.

[hands11]

hands, Davis is better than your boy Blatche

If he doesn't start right away, thats fine. I'd rather bring him along slowly. Besides, we have Nene and hopefully we keep Singleton around as vets who can be legit examples for him esp with developing post moves. Hell, Kevin Seraphin can show him a thing or two. Davis's IQ and effort will still have him grabbing boards and blocking shots at the next level despite his less than ready NBA body.

lol

I sure hope he is a better prospect then Blatche. He is slotted as the #1 pick. Dray was taken in the second round.

If the idea is the draft him to come off the bench behind Nene and KS for the next 3 years while he develops then that is going into it with your eyes open. I guess it would be a quality problem to have to many big for a while. They would be stuffing the pipeline.

Nene, Keven, Ves, Booker, James Singleton and Davis would be a nasty front court. Specially after Davis gets a year or two under his belt. Stack the deck and work it out later. I said that from the beginning. What I was looking at is, are there other way to maximize the assets.

It's not Davis or no Davis. Its Davis or other assets. Two first round picks instead of 1. Or a first and other assets.

What does he bring that the team doesn't already have ? 6-10 220 isn't even as big as McGee was or Vesely is. And McGee had freakishly long arms at 7-0 that became 7-1 and jumped out of the gym. I see the kid as a center not a PF. If so, he is going to need to develop strenght and some go to moves. We already have KS as a young center with a polished post game and the bulk to play there. KS is only 22. Ves is the PF 7-0 240 long armed high jumping hustle garbage pts dunking player and he is already getting stronger and rebound better. Ves has great drive, high BBIQ, great passer, etc. He is also 22. If the kid adds a jumper over the summer he is going to be nasty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying drafting the kid would be bad. The team would be even more stacked in the front court. I'm just saying adding him isn't the only way to play it.

What if you could get

Robinson and Kendel
Robinson and Tyler

Kendel

Marshall's 10.7 assists per 40 minutes game adjusted this season rank the highest of any player in the history of our database (which goes back to 2001/2002). He's also #1 all-time in Pure Point Ratio by a large margin, while his 3.51 Assist-Turnover Ratio ranks 3rd all-time..

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1tRd8rm7x
http://www.draftexpress.com

Lord knows adding a much better back up PG would make this team light years better. And that would happen almost immediately. And what if Wall ever went down ?

And Robinson has an NBA ready body to help on the boards. He is a PF. And in todays NBA game, he would be a LeBron sides SF since he has handles, range and a face up game.

Robinson and Kendell would be instantly productive vs Davis

Just other options.

[hands11]

Oh yes well, realgm would take a siesta on that rather antagonistic note. I’m not trying to provoke you hands, your point that Davis is not a finished product is a valid one and I do think that had he chosen to return to school for another year he would have emerged a more attractive candidate. I’m also not entirely dismissing the idea of trading out of any pick, even the first overall, but because of the degree to which I esteem Davis as a prospect any offer that would make much headway with me would have to be absolutely irresistible. I’m also not using this as a means to demean Vesely or using the 6th overall pick on him. I meant only to point out that Vesely was himself physically underdeveloped and made a great deal of progress on that front in a relatively short time after having been drafted and therefore it seems premature to confidently assert that Davis will be struggling to overcome his frame for years to come.

Davis is a really excellent prospect. He’s fully equipped with the physical prerequisites you’d want in a premier prospect, fills a role which is generally considered both difficult to fill and extremely valuable (that of a focal point as an interior player). He’s already keyed to be an extremely impactful defender and has shown more than enough offensively to allow for all sorts of dreams to fall easily onto his shoulders. Those are dreams at this point; he would not be able to produce the volume of offense that an elite big man is expected to at this moment. But I do think you have to recognize that it is an unfortunate cost of doing business in the modern draft that you have to be prepared to draft players who are not finished products.

That was true of Greg Oden when he was drafted (was he really any further along offensively?) and of Kevin Durant (more physically underdeveloped than Davis by far) of Derrick Rose (a poor shooter, not without some concerns as a playmaker and of Wall (generally the same with more of an emphasis on his shooting issues). Virtually any prospect of that caliber now is going to be entering into the NBA after a single year of college and there will be work left to be done. Davis does have his faults, and like many modern big men a less than stellar post game is certainly one of them. Nevertheless he scored at a healthy if not incredible clip in college and did so with tremendous efficiency, and based on his ability to finish and his solid foul shooting he should be a respectable contributor in the NBA initially, but I don’t disagree that adjustments will be necessary on that end.

Anyway, I didn’t mean do any more than to point out that there are a great many points in Davis’ favor as a prospect and that from what I know of prospectdom and of projecting players into the NBA what he has demonstrated thus far is impressive to a degree that the play of Durant or Oden or (to acknowledge that this is not a precise science) Beasley accomplished at that level. The Wizards front court has come a long way recently, but I don’t think there’s a frontcourt in the league with the quality and depth sufficient to make Davis redundant, he’s just too good.

Isn't this the last year college players can come out after only 1 year. I believe they changed it to two in the CBA. This should make things easier for teams moving forward. They will get more developed, more mature kids. And they will have more tape on them. I'm really glad they changed this.

Did you also see that they are changing from a 12 to 13 man active roster ? They started it because of the strike shortened year but now are sticking with it. Great move. It will product even better basketball as well. Two great moves by the NBA.

What. They didn't change it ? That sucks. It would have been much better for the game if they did a two year min. Better for college ball and better for the NBA.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... ge-minimum

[hands11]

The argument is flawed. The question is do you want to win a championship or be a little better next year? Teams win with Bar None Most Talented Consensus Best bigs. Even if he took a year or so to develop, that's a fine thing, his topside is significantly better than whomever is under him. Offense only tells a small percentage of the story. But his offense is fine for this team. As has been sketched out already (myself, 'woodie) on this team, with his current skillset he'd be like a more skilled and efficient Jan Vesely, with Tim Duncan level defensive upside. And honestly who wouldn't want that?

Occasionally conventional wisdom is just you know, wisdom.

My argument isn't flawed. It didn't negate what you framed it as. I'm saying drafting Davis isn't the only way to get there. What you are framing as your argument is a sub set of mine. Not in opposition.

And while conventional wisdom is some time..wisdom. Sometimes it isn't. Actually, lots of times it isn't. MJ was the best pick. Would you rather have MJ or Sam Bowie from Kentucky Sam was a sure thing remember. KG and R Wallace were better then Joe Smith who was the 6-10 consensus #1. Conventional wisdom is wrong a lot of the time. You know the list goes on and on from there.

Shaq, KG, Ben Wallace, Camby, etc. They were all ultimately acquired by other teams while they were prime. The value argument would be, not draft them anyway, they brought a lot in return. Well, you also have the option to get that return on draft day. That is what I am exploring.

Doc, I'm not trying to antagonize here. I am trying to get people to think outside the bubble. If the answer comes back that Davis is the best use of the #1 for this team, then that is the answer. But it is worth exploring and evaluating. Thats what RealGMs do.

[hands11]

hands, I don't think it is going to take 3 years for Davis to justify his top draft pick overall status. I think it will be apparent in 3 days why he is by far the best player in this draft.

I saw Festus Ezeli tower over Davis. He is taller and at least 30 or 40 pounds heavier than Davis. I saw Jeff Withey pushing Davis off of the block. It was very difficult for Davis to score posting up. What was Anthony Davis shooting in the NCAA Championship game, something like 1-8 or 1-10 at one point? I understand the contention is that in the NBA there are men who will do that routinely to Davis.

Here is the flip side to the above. In the NBA teams have 8 seconds to get the ball over the time line and 24 seconds to score. If Davis is a C for his NBA team, he's probably going to be the fastest at his position. He's going to be the John Wall of Cs. Davis is not just fast, but he's quick. He will be a Bill Russell. If Davis comes to a team like the Wizards, that has some big men already, he can play PF. Anthony wii be able to rebound much better than the bigger Kevin Seraphin. Davis should be comparable at finishing lobs to Vesely. Davis is a terrific ball handler. With the 24-second clock, he's going to be able to drive for a lot of dunks. Imagine a guy the size of Chris Bosh, and even more agile than Bosh, who plays with the defensive intensity of Alonzo Mourning. Anthony Davis can play PF or C and he will excel.

I think with Davis the Wizards would end up starting Vesely at SF, Davis at PF, and Nene at C. It would be sort of similar to the Lakers having Odom, Gasol, and Bynum. None of those guys were perimeter threats, Kobe was. The Wizards have Wall and just need to add a player like Eric Gordon, Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Brandon Rush, etc.

That or Morris Almond needs to come back hitting shots at his greatest accuracy. Did anyone else notice the Wizards did well with Martin, Almond, and Evans all playing SG by committee? They didn't have to go against Wade but those guys held their own,

Now we are mixing it up. I knew I could count on you CCJ.

So know we have Ves at SF ? Didn't see that coming but not surprised you came up with it. Just not sure that is going to happen though. I think they have moved on from that idea. Ves is getting bigger and stronger. Not sure a 7-0 SF is something that would work. Odom came off the bench. He is 6-10 with handles.

WizD actually hit on a lot of good things and you touched on them also.

Davis has a lot of McGee in him. I know a lot will read that as an insult but it isn't meant to be. McGee was a very interesting talent. Davis is way more mature and with better BBIQ. Had McGee had those things AND McGee was at PF that could be a freak player once developed. I long said McGee really wanted to play PF more then center.

But initially, it sounds like what Davis does what Ves already does which is a lot of what McGee did. Well in regards to running, dunking. McGee blocked a ton of shots as a weak side shot blocker. This year he started to develop a mid range and that hook was looking pretty nice.

So if that is the plan, I can see it. Play him at PF and develop him. Let Nene and KS man the post. It will take him a few years to put it all together but it would be worth the wait.


Wall/??/Mack
Crawford/Mason/Martin
James Singleton/C Singleton
Ves/Booker/Davis
Nene/Keveen

but what if you could have

Wall/Kendell/Mack
Crawford/Mason/Martin
James Singleton/C Singleton
Ves/Booker/Robinson
Nene/Keveen

While auditioning Robinson at the SF in a LeBron mode. Most the top SF these days are 6-8 and bigger. That wouldn't suck either. I say team 2 beats team 1. 6-9 240 is not to big when you are as athletic as Robinson is. LeBron is 6-8 250. KD is 6-9 235. Melo is 6-8 230

[hands11]

Why the bad talk on ANthony Davis? Sound like he being consider a bust before he even plays.

No one is calling him a bust. Not that I have read.

[doclinkin]

And while conventional wisdom is some time..wisdom. Sometimes it isn't. Actually, lots of times it isn't. MJ was the best pick. Would you rather have MJ or Sam Bowie from Kentucky Sam was a sure thing remember.

No he was widely regarded as a reach. Bobby Knight was friends with Portland's GM at the time (forgetting, and too lazy to find him) and was asked what his advice was considering that MJ was noted as at least the 2nd best player in the draft. Coach Knight said: "Draft MJ" when told: but we need a centrer Coach Knight said: "Then Draft MJ and play him at Center".

At the very top end more often than not conventional wisdom is correct. People make mistakes, especially in a weak draft, but check the history of NBA championships and you'll find most every year's finals contenders have a number one overall player. Davis is this year's version.

But again, it's a moot point since there's zero chance anyone in the front office agrees with you. And an 80+% chance that we don't get the option to even worry about it.

Now if the argument was: do we trade Seraphin/Nene/Ves or some combination thereof plus our pick to move up to #1, well then you might have some takers on both sides of the argument.

[fugop]

hands, watch the Louisville game. Davis was up against my boy Gorgui Dieng, a likely first round pick next year, and had an unbelievably efficient offensive performance. If Davis shot 50% instead of 90%, Louisville may have been able to steal that game. He did it on mid range jumpshots, smooth hooks, and beautiful cuts.

Davis won't be Tim Dnucan on offense his first few years, but he won't be Joakim Noah either. Honestly, he's got the ability to have a Chris Bosh level offensive game, with more rebounding and outstanding defense.

[cleek+wall]

Ihope we get barnes , to be honest with yall...ya , i know his stock has fallen in the eyes of most nba scouts. He reminds a lot of scouts and GMs of Luol Deng. I had that first impression of Barnes, too.

But as I watched more and more film on him, Barnes started to remind me of Paul Pierce. I am not saying he is the next “Paul Pierce” or that he will have a career that has been as successful as Pierces, but some of the things that Barnes does reminds me of Pierce.

The way he plays, slow and methodical, is Pierce’s trademark. Barnes loves one-dribble pull-ups, preferably going to his left. He loves step-back jumpers, as well. If you leave Barnes wide-open from three-point land, he is knocking it down every time. Both, Pierce and Barnes, are excellent mid-range players, a lost art in todays game. Barnes will probably never be a 37% three-point shooter for his career and might never score like Pierce used to score (five seasons averaging at least 25.0 ppg), but Barnes has similar qualities.

I also believe that Barnes has some clutch-ness in his game. Remember in his freshman season, Barnes hit game-winners against Miami and Florida State (both games on the road).



Barnes might fall to as low as #6 when the NBA draft rolls around in June. Scouts feel that he didn’t propel himself, in anyway shape or form, ahead of players like Michael Kidd-Gilchrist or Bradley Beal this season. And I would tend to agree with them. But Barnes has a more-advanced NBA game that either Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal. I could see Barnes going as high as #5.

Keep in mind that the players drafted ahead of Paul Pierce in the 1998 NBA draft were Michael Olowokandi, Mike Bibby, Raef LaFrentz, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Robert Traylor, Jason Williams, Larry Hughes, and Dirk Nowitzki.

Pierce has had a better career than all of those players and Nowitzki is the only other player in his class.

So could you say that Pierce was overlooked in the 1998 draft? Yes, you can say that.

Is Barnes being overlooked in this draft? Yes, but this draft class figures to be a very good draft class.

Barnes is a big-time player, keep that in mind

[Tyrone Messby]

Would the Hornets be willing to trade their top 5 pick and 10 for the first overall if someone gets it? Wouldn't mind taking that deal for the number 1 if we got it.

[montestewart]

Would the Hornets be willing to trade their top 5 pick and 10 for the first overall if someone gets it? Wouldn't mind taking that deal for the number 1 if we got it.

All signs point to yes, and you can rest assured, someone will get it.

[hands11]

Would the Hornets be willing to trade their top 5 pick and 10 for the first overall if someone gets it? Wouldn't mind taking that deal for the number 1 if we got it.

All signs point to yes, and you can rest assured, someone will get it.

what do you think that team could get for those slots.

Robinson and Kendall ?
Robinson and Tyler ?

Quincy Miller should not be forgotten about.

[rl25g]

wrong thread

[hands11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraJwLav ... creen&NR=1

Davis on Kimmel

[nate33]

Would the Hornets be willing to trade their top 5 pick and 10 for the first overall if someone gets it? Wouldn't mind taking that deal for the number 1 if we got it.

Of course the Hornets would make that move. But whoever had the #1 pick most certainly would not make the move.

[hands11]

KU vs NC on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NraJwLav ... creen&NR=1

[Nivek]

It's fine to put Davis under the microscope. While he still has some work to do, what he did this season is unprecedented, at least over the past 14 seasons (where there's a searchable database.

Here's the complete list of college players since 1998-99 who posted at least 500 total points, 400 rebounds and 150 blocked shots in a season:

1. Anthony Davis, Kentucky

[/list]

In YODA, he has the best rating of any draft prospect I've put in the database, including Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Wade, Durant, Oden, etc. His YODA rating is WAAAAAAAAAY better than Camby's -- fueled by insane efficiency, significantly better rebounding and significantly better shot blocking.

It's possible that Davis could end up being something less than a great pro, but it's not much of a likelihood. Every indication is that he'll be good immediately, and that he'll get better. Absolute no question, no-brainer top pick this year. If the Wizards got the #1 pick and traded it, that deal would likely go down as one of the worst trades in history. Possibly worse than trading Manhattan for some beads and smallpox infected blankets.

[hands11]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=320429029

I find this interesting since Mem has been mentioned as a team that can go all the way.

Here is their starting line up.
They have 1 top 5 pick. Another 8th pick.
A couple of mid to late round first round picks.
Their starting center is a 2nd round 18th pick

There highest pick that is contributing comes off the bench. First round 3rd pick.
Their back up center is a mid first rounder.

I thought that was interesting.

Oh and the clipper.. Starting center for the Clippers.
2nd round 5th pick