Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

[stevemcqueen1]

Watching the combine and they're talking about Archie Goodwin. I could see him being the guy who gets drafted way higher than people expect. He's got excellent tools and slashing ability.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Bullock & R.Kelly also look like solid 2nd round picks.

[DCZards]

Fan reactions are interesting. Folks are losing their minds over Barnes' playoff performance, and he hasn't even played all that well. In his 12 playoff games, he has 3-4 very good games, 3-4 very bad ones, and then ho-hum gamea. He played better in the post-season than he did in the regular season, but that's low bar. His regular season was the stuff of Omri Casspi.

Barnes' potential is obvious, but his platoff performance is being significantly overrated. And Muhammad doesn't look as good a prospect as Barnes did.

Yes, too much is probably being made of Barnes' playoff performance. But we did begin to get a glimpse of how good he could be. It wasn't Barnes' numbers that impressed me the most, it was things that aren't as easy to measure, including the emergence of a low-post offensive game, his rebounding, his solid D throughout the playoffs, and the steadiness and poise he diplayed in the biggest games of his young career.

As for comparisons with Shabazz, the main similarity is that both were the top players in their H.S. class, and both had decent, but less-than-stellar, college careers. (Although in Bazz's case it was only one season.) Now, like Barnes last year, Bazz is being seriously underrated and overlooked, imo. Call it the curse of being #1 coming out of high school.

Bazz has a more polished and ready-for-the-NBA offensive game than Barnes did as a soph. He also has an NBA body and his 6-6 measurement at the combine (which will probably be 6-7 in the next year or two) will enable him to play plenty of SF.

And EVERYONE raves about Bazz's motor, which is a skill that can't be coached. It's also something that often separates the great players from the average players. Bazz's motor and competitiveness was apparently on display during this week's combine.

Though his impressive raw offensive skills alone will result in Bazz being a top 10 pick, there are a LOT of areas where he needs to improve--ball handling, distributing the ball and being able to go to the right as well as he goes to the left, to name a few.

But all of the top players in the draft (most of whom are 19-21 years old and only played 1-2 years of college ball) have flaws and shortcomings. But most of these youngins' are going to get better. How much better is the question, and that often depends on their work ethic.

Barnes' coach, Mark Jackson, says what has impressed him most about Harrison is his work ethic. All reports indicate that Bazz has a similar work ethic.

[Dat2U]

Shabazz as a poor man's Harden? Maybe. Right now that's a bit of a stretch. If you take away Harden's ability to pass and drive then yes.

He's got a very similar body to Harden.

Also worth pointing out that Harden had a very weak off hand and was totally dependent on going left too when he got drafted.

The playmaking and the demeanor are big differences. Bazz is an alpha scorer whereas Harden is fully capable of blending in and facilitating. Bazz has more of a front court mentality too, much more comfortable posting up and he likes to get into the paint as much as he can whereas Harden is much more of a true guard.

None of the comparisons are going to be clean. But there are a ton of similarities between Bazz and Harden.

I understand if none of the comparisons are perfect, but can we at least get in the same ballpark? Your Zeller comparisons are baffling. This is one is simply ridiculous.

The only similarities between Bazz and Harden are the fact they are black and played in the Pac-10.

If Bazz had half the dribble creation skills of Harden, I'd look at him a lot more favorably. They are not even in the same zip code. Bazz will never have those capabilities. You can polish and improve skill over time, but you can't build something you don't have the tools for. Bazz is a one/two dribble guy whose forced to take a lot of jumpers because he can't get to the rim off the bounce effectively in college. Harden basically has PG type handles and gets in the lane at will.

[AFM]

I think the biggest similarity between Bazz and Harden is that both are left handed. For whatever reason, people always seem to compare left handed players.

[Dat2U]

Fan reactions are interesting. Folks are losing their minds over Barnes' playoff performance, and he hasn't even played all that well. In his 12 playoff games, he has 3-4 very good games, 3-4 very bad ones, and then ho-hum gamea. He played better in the post-season than he did in the regular season, but that's low bar. His regular season was the stuff of Omri Casspi.

Barnes' potential is obvious, but his platoff performance is being significantly overrated. And Muhammad doesn't look as good a prospect as Barnes did.

Yes, too much is probably being made of Barnes' playoff performance. But we did begin to get a glimpse of how good he could be. It wasn't Barnes' numbers that impressed me the most, it was things that aren't as easy to measure, including the emergence of a low-post offensive game, his rebounding, his solid D throughout the playoffs, and the steadiness and poise he diplayed in the biggest games of his young career.

As for comparisons with Shabazz, the main similarity is that both were the top players in their H.S. class, and both had decent, but less-than-stellar, college careers. (Although in Bazz's case it was only one season.) Now, like Barnes last year, Bazz is being seriously underrated and overlooked, imo. Call it the curse of being #1 coming out of high school.

Bazz has a more polished and ready-for-the-NBA offensive game than Barnes did as a soph. He also has an NBA body and his 6-6 measurement at the combine (which will probably be 6-7 in the next year or two) will enable him to play plenty of SF.

And EVERYONE raves about Bazz's motor, which is a skill that can't be coached. It's also something that often separates the great players from the average players. Bazz's motor and competitiveness was apparently on display during this week's combine.

Though his impressive raw offensive skills alone will result in Bazz being a top 10 pick, there are a LOT of areas where he needs to improve--ball handling, distributing the ball and being able to go to the right as well as he goes to the left, to name a few.

But all of the top players in the draft (most of whom are 19-21 years old and only played 1-2 years of college ball) have flaws and shortcomings. But most of these youngins' are going to get better. How much better is the question, and that often depends on their work ethic.

Barnes' coach, Mark Jackson, says what has impressed him most about Harrison is his work ethic. All reports indicate that Bazz has a similar work ethic.

So in other words, ignore the stats because he looks good to me and people say nice stuff about him. That young man is going places, lol!

Barnes had a meh season. He shot it a tad better than expected but he was a 5 option with minimal usage. Big whoop. He went to an ideal situation that could mask a lot of his deficiencies. Maybe with a little luck and hard work, he'll be the next Rick Fox or Mario Elie. No one ever said he wasn't going to be an NBA contributor. I and many other said he wasn't a star and wasn't worthy of a high lottery pick. I said he was a mid 1st rounder last year. I don't see anything that would make me go back and say I was wrong.

[hands11]

How did Plumlee measure compared to Black Griffin.

If anyone looks like a poor mans BG from a mile away, I think it might be Plumlee in this class.

Damn it. Where did that leaping chart go.

Looks like 30.5 vs 35.5

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/17/nba- ... e-results/
http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/6/3/897 ... he-combine

[sfam]

I would love it if GMs sell Bennett as short as some here. This guy has elite scoring potential. For a team in need of points, this is pretty desirable. I would love it if he fell to us.

[Dat2U]

I think the biggest similarity between Bazz and Harden is that both are left handed. For whatever reason, people always seem to compare left handed players.

Maybe that's it. I just don't get the comparison when you look at their games stylistically. Bazz plays a totally different game from Harden.

[hands11]

I think the biggest similarity between Bazz and Harden is that both are left handed. For whatever reason, people always seem to compare left handed players.

I wonder why that is ?

As I said before. Same size. Same position and both left hand dominate. DAT pointing out that Shabbazz has much weaker handles would be a good point about how they are different. But handles can be improved. Let at least hope so. Beal is working on that right now.

That said, no one said he would be Harden. Harden has shown to have a special change of pace and great angles for getting to the rim. And he can pass.

But its a better comp than Barnes.

[montestewart]

There's also Howland factor. Everyone seems to thrive after leaving his system.

I haven't heard anyone support that position very well. Westbrook and Holiday have shown significantly better than might have been anticipated once they get to the pros. Westbrook was chosen pretty high anyway, but regardless, how to show that the system held them back instead the players' games progressing naturally. Other players, like Afflalo, Collison, and Farmar, may have been highlighted by the system. Maybe few knew that Love would be as good in the pros as he has shown, but his numbers looked pretty good at UCLA, and he already showed the attributes characteristic of his pro game (and he may have been fighting a little bias against white players). On the whole, I don't see a pattern of UCLA players being underrated or drafted too low. Maybe Muhammed will become a Vince Carter-like monster player, but I haven't seen anyone make a good case that his low shooting percentage or other perceived shortcomings are due to Howland's system.

[BruceO]

i'm glad cody zellers numbers are reasonable and possibly can make a good pf in the league. I think at the 8th spot without a doubt we'll get a decent player. Thinking len most likely..but oladipo, porter, zeller, mccollum makes a long list of guys who'll fit in well. In the second round i'm now hopping for alan crabbe. I saw he was one of the guys we requested a meeting with and i think he can fit in as a third guard and he has huge size and wingspan. So len and crabbe is who i hope to get minimum

[SUPERBALLMAN]

NBAtv cut 4hr day 2 broadcast down to an hour.

Completely cut out 1st hour which was all centers, too bad it was good stuff.

[AFM]

Honestly, Bazz shot 37.7% from 3. 53 TS%. Good 3% numbers, simply average TS%. For someone not known as a shooter in HS, that's not that bad. Wasn't he primarily known as a dunker?

I think a stronger Antawn Jamison is a better comparison. He can shoot the 3 decently, and can score around the basket in a plethora of ways, hook shots, flip shots, etc. He gets a lot of his own O rebounds using his strength to out muscle defenders. Actually the 2nd best offensive rebounder in the DX top 100 database (for SF).

[hands11]

I would love it if GMs sell Bennett as short as some here. This guy has elite scoring potential. For a team in need of points, this is pretty desirable. I would love it if he fell to us.

For the Wizards, I would rather those points come from a 3rd guard with handles or a S4, not a guy projected to be a starter that has to change positions that shoots a lot and doesn't play defense.

If we are going to draft based on a project, I would rather see Len or Adams because we need a center. If we want pts CJM. If we want a baller, VO. If we want Mr Wonderful solid long 12 year player, Otto.

Let someone else swing on Bennett.

[BruceO]

pre lotto mock: 1. orl-mclemore 2. Cha - Noel 3. Cle - Porter 4. phx-bennet 5. NO-Burke 6. Sac- oladipo 7. Det-Mccollum 8: WIZ- LEN 9. Min- adams 10. Por- zeller 11. Phila- gobbert 12. OKC- shabbazz 13. Mavs-olynyk 14. Jazz- schroeder 15. Milwaukee- KC Pope 16. Boston- Saric.

I also think cleveland promised to draft ledo. We will end up with one of canaan, cj leslie or alan crabbe. I think there'll be a good big shooting guard

[DCZards]

So in other words, ignore the stats because he looks good to me and people say nice stuff about him. That young man is going places, lol!

Stats! If you want to base your total opinion of a player's potential (Bazz in this case) on one college season, go for it. But I doubt that any NBA GM or scout would be that shortsighted.

And I understand it's hard for you to admit that Barnes is turning out to be far better than the 18th best player in last year's draft, which is where you had him ranked. We all make mistakes.

[Induveca]

Zeller: Weak, poor reach, going to be dominated in the pros as a PF.....

Of course our idiot GM will draft him. Hoping for Bennett!

[Marcus50]

Prediction time:

I think the top four picks in the draft will be Noel, Zeller, Burke, and McLemore. Burke and Zeller are going to go higher than people currently think. Burke is a legit #1 overall candidate. They were the two best players in the country this year and they've got definite NBA tools.

I think claims that Shabazz will fall out of the lottery are ridiculous. His stock is stable somewhere in the top ten. If Waiters can go 4, then he will go in the lottery. If I were San Antonio, I would trade up for him. I think he could go 7 to Detroit.

I think that Len will be overdrafted and probably be the highest drafted guy who disappoints. Consequently, I think we are going to be the ones to draft him.

I think Porter is going to go later than people expect. I don't think there is any chance he goes top four like people think. I think he ends up in the 6-9 range.

I think Bennett is going to drop and be a relative steal. The injury and the maturity questions are the reasons he will drop. I think he's going to be one of the top scorers from this class.

I think McCollum is going to go much higher than people are considering him right now. He'll go somewhere in the top 8 and people will be like, WTF? Then he'll score 18 or 19 PPG as a rookie and people will be like, Oh.

Don't know quite what to make of Oladipo. He should be good. But I can see him ending up being a way worse shooter than people expect. It literally would not surprise me if he ends up being the best player from the class, or a bit of a disappointment and a career role player.

I think Olynyk is going to go outside the top ten, probably at the end of the lottery or just outside and I think he won't end up being a long term starter.

Dieng is going to be a good career backup.

I think Adams is going to be overdrafted and bust. I get a bad vibe about his intangibles. Seems like a guy who has coasted on natural ability his whole life, who isn't the self starter that loves the game like some of the other top guys. Seems like he's going to get paid and then never realize his potential.

And of course, someone bizarre is going to go way higher than people expect. Happens every year. The Cavs will probably be the ones doing the reaching, and then that guy will end up actually being decent.

You have a missread on Adams. Perhaps he will be over-drafted but do not be misled into thinking he has coasted. He came into the game late and has been on a steep learning curve. Also Do not take the seemingly laid back attitude as soft, he is from NZ and they tend to be a bit more relaxed but he is a worker with great physical gifts His sister may give you a bit of a read on the mental toughness. 2x Olympic shot-put champion and 2x world champion

[jivelikenice]

Just to throw in my 2 cents. There was a lot of unnecessary Barnes hate last year. His game was going to translate to the pros better and the Carolina system probably further held him back. That being said,I also don't see him as some type of all world performer. He benefits greatly from being the 4th most important guy on the floor that teams key in on. He doesn't go against an opponents best defenders and teams seem more willing to let him get 2 than to let Curry or Thompson get 3. If he were a primary option, you would see an inefficient scorer who has issues creating his own shot. The fit with him and GSW is a perfect match....

Back to the real point, although Barnes was a disappointment in college too, you could see how his game would translate to the pros whereas with Shabhazz, it's not as clear. Barnes had an NBA frame,position, and skillet....with Shabhazz, it's not as defined. I think he's a 6th man type, but will he shoot and effectively creat well enough? Will his oncourt demeanor fit in on a team full of younger players or does he need to be surrounded by vets who can tell him that pouting for the ball is no way to carry yourself?? A lot more question marks with him.