Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

I'll say! Brown is already quite good -- & only 20 years old! & Bonga looks to have quite a future.

I think they are both only 20, right? Maybe some upside over the next two to three years?

Players like Brown and Bonga are great next to Rui. They show solid creativity on offense along with length & awareness on defense. That, along with their rebounding will be allow Rui to play to his strengths.

There is hope for Bonga because he is so long and he actually looks like he's still growing a bit. He has legit PF size at this point.

He is still woefully foul prone so he's not much help at the moment, but I like that he is embracing the 3&D role. The biggest concern is that he starts to figure things out just as his rookie contract is up. In a way, it might be best if his development is slow so that we can resign him to a second contract before he gets expensive.

[pcbothwel]

3 years ago (Just after his 17th bday), Bonga measured in at 6'8.25 w/o shoes and a 7' wingspan. That would make him about the size of John Collins, Marquise Chriss, and Richaun Holmes....

[payitforward]

Has he grown since then?
Maybe he'll wind up the size of the 3 of them stacked up?

[pcbothwel]

After the Clarkson trade, I doubt we get much if anything for IT.
Clarkson is cooking this year with a TS of 58% and 2:1 AST:TOV ratio. Utah was able to get him AND get out of Exums 9M salary next year for 2 mid/late 2nds 3-4 years from now.

Jazz stole Clarkson. This looks to be a buyers market based on the limited sample size

[nate33]

After the Clarkson trade, I doubt we get much if anything for IT.
Clarkson is cooking this year with a TS of 58% and 2:1 AST:TOV ratio. Utah was able to get him AND get out of Exums 9M salary next year for 2 mid/late 2nds 3-4 years from now.

Jazz stole Clarkson. This looks to be a buyers market based on the limited sample size

Agreed. I never thought Isaiah would be worth anything in the first place, but that Utah trade just confirmed it.

I think the best we can do is trade him for some other guy on a minimum salary contract at another position.

[gambitx777]

Best we can do is cut him.its not like we have up anything for him

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[pcbothwel]

Best we can do is cut him.its not like we have up anything for him

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You're overselling it now. There is no need to cut him and eat his salary. PLENTY of teams will take on his salary and give us a mid 2nd 2-3 years from now... I was just hoping for SLIGHTLY more... but now doubtful

[payitforward]

After the Clarkson trade, I doubt we get much if anything for IT.
Clarkson is cooking this year with a TS of 58% and 2:1 AST:TOV ratio. Utah was able to get him AND get out of Exums 9M salary next year for 2 mid/late 2nds 3-4 years from now.

Jazz stole Clarkson. This looks to be a buyers market based on the limited sample size

Agreed. I never thought Isaiah would be worth anything in the first place, but that Utah trade just confirmed it.

I think the best we can do is trade him for some other guy on a minimum salary contract at another position.

I don't get these comment to tell the truth.

The Jazz didn't steal Clarkson -- he has never been a good player. He's having a very good season this year based on one outlier statistic -- shooting almost 10 3-pointers per 40 minutes at his highest-ever 37.1%. What happens when that regresses to the mean? He's certainly overpaid.

He is also expiring. My guess? He'll be a Knick next year!

The Cavs took on $4.75m in extra salary & got 2 R2 picks. That's the real trade, & it's pretty standard value. I'm sure they have no great hopes for Exum, & anyway they are stuffed with young guards. Apparently they really like Porter. Windler hasn't gotten healthy yet. Plus, they have so little $$ in guaranteed salaries for next year that Exum's $9m won't be any kind of problem.

[nate33]

The Jazz didn't steal Clarkson -- he has never been a good player. He's having a very good season this year based on one outlier statistic -- shooting almost 10 3-pointers per 40 minutes at his highest-ever 37.1%. What happens when that regresses to the mean? He's certainly overpaid.

Well, if you assume he regresses to the mean, then he isn't any good. But if you assume he can play the rest of the season like he has so far this season, then he is a solid bench scorer. 23 mostly unassisted points per 36 on a TS% of .581 can help a team.

[payitforward]

He absolutely will help Utah right now -- he's tons more productive than Exum, obviously, tho Exum doesn't play. But, he'll give them a boost over some other guys as well.

But, to assess the trade, I'm trying to unpack his overall value as a player. Since he's expiring that's a near-term practical issue. I.e. whether the trade makes sense depends on what he winds up getting paid. Based on his age & how he's played over his career, he's not worth what he's making now.

If they re-sign him cheaply enough the trade might work out -- but... I don't think it's likely to go down that way. More likely, they'll either overpay him substantially or he'll move on. If the latter, then basically they got the short term value plus a salary savings of just under $5m in return for two R2 picks.

But, really my point was that this trade might not indicate "a buyer's market" -- might not be evidence that we can't get anything for IT. Yet, on reflection, does that even matter? IT will need to be playing better for him to be marketable....

[nate33]

He absolutely will help Utah right now -- he's tons more productive than Exum, obviously, tho Exum doesn't play. But, he'll give them a boost over some other guys as well.

But, to assess the trade, I'm trying to unpack his overall value as a player. Since he's expiring that's a near-term practical issue. I.e. whether the trade makes sense depends on what he winds up getting paid. Based on his age & how he's played over his career, he's not worth what he's making now.

If they re-sign him cheaply enough the trade might work out -- but... I don't think it's likely to go down that way. More likely, they'll either overpay him substantially or he'll move on. If the latter, then basically they got the short term value plus a salary savings of just under $5m in return for two R2 picks.

But, really my point was that this trade might not indicate "a buyer's market" -- might not be evidence that we can't get anything for IT. Yet, on reflection, does that even matter? IT will need to be playing better for him to be marketable....

Don't overlook the value of dumping Exum's dead weight contract. Even if they let Clarkson walk, they're going to have an extra $9.6M to spend on a free agent.

[gambitx777]

Clarkson is going to get 20 -25 mill on a 1-2 year deal from a shot team with tons of money

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[nate33]

Clarkson is going to get 20 -25 mill on a 1-2 year deal from a shot team with tons of money

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Are you saying he'll get $20-25M a year? Or $20M over 2 years? There's a big difference.

I could see him getting an MLE-sized contract (2 years, $21M total), but he won't get more than that.

[payitforward]

He absolutely will help Utah right now -- he's tons more productive than Exum, obviously, tho Exum doesn't play. But, he'll give them a boost over some other guys as well.

But, to assess the trade, I'm trying to unpack his overall value as a player. Since he's expiring that's a near-term practical issue. I.e. whether the trade makes sense depends on what he winds up getting paid. Based on his age & how he's played over his career, he's not worth what he's making now.

If they re-sign him cheaply enough the trade might work out -- but... I don't think it's likely to go down that way. More likely, they'll either overpay him substantially or he'll move on. If the latter, then basically they got the short term value plus a salary savings of just under $5m in return for two R2 picks.

But, really my point was that this trade might not indicate "a buyer's market" -- might not be evidence that we can't get anything for IT. Yet, on reflection, does that even matter? IT will need to be playing better for him to be marketable....

Don't overlook the value of dumping Exum's dead weight contract. Even if they let Clarkson walk, they're going to have an extra $9.6M to spend on a free agent.

True enough.

It'll be interesting to see whether they can build a competitor in the West -- looks hard as hell to me!

[gambitx777]

Clarkson is going to get 20 -25 mill on a 1-2 year deal from a shot team with tons of money

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Are you saying he'll get $20-25M a year? Or $20M over 2 years? There's a big difference.

I could see him getting an MLE-sized contract (2 years, $21M total), but he won't get more than that.

Yeah 20-25 mill a year. I'm not saying he's worth it. I hold his value at about 8-13 mill a year. But there are bad teams with lots of money I can see him getting way over paid. Like Kent bazamore or Tylor Johnson did a couple years back but on a short term deal.

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[dalton749]

I really feel like you guys should go after love since defense doesn’t seem to be a thing in Washington now anyway. You’re committed to wall with that contract so may as well try and put a legit team around him next year and he should come relatively cheap. Mahini, miles and a 1st is probably enough.

Wall
Beal
Bertans
Rui
Love

5 out ball and just try to drop 140 every night. Not sure how you stop wall/beal with that kind of spacing.

[gambitx777]

I feel like love wouldn't help that much and most of us are pretty opposed to burning a pick right now. I would consider a cap dump ian , cj McRae and It flat no picks but I wouldn't burn a pick on Kevin love. That contract is not good and you will be lucky to find a team to take it with out getting a pick with him let alone giving a pick of much value.

I really feel like you guys should go after love since defense doesn’t seem to be a thing in Washington now anyway. You’re committed to wall with that contract so may as well try and put a legit team around him next year and he should come relatively cheap. Mahini, miles and a 1st is probably enough.

Wall
Beal
Bertans
Rui
Love

5 out ball and just try to drop 140 every night. Not sure how you stop wall/beal with that kind of spacing.

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[nate33]

I really feel like you guys should go after love since defense doesn’t seem to be a thing in Washington now anyway. You’re committed to wall with that contract so may as well try and put a legit team around him next year and he should come relatively cheap. Mahini, miles and a 1st is probably enough.

Wall
Beal
Bertans
Rui
Love

5 out ball and just try to drop 140 every night. Not sure how you stop wall/beal with that kind of spacing.

Nobody wants Love on that contract. Love was great 5 years ago when stretch-fours were all the rage. But the league changed and they now play 3's at the 4 spot and Love can't defend them. Love has to play 5 and he can't protect the rim.

The league has passed Love by. He's a dinosaur now. Is he even better than Bertans at this point?

Heck, is he better than Wagner?

[payitforward]

There could be no reason for us to acquire Love at this stage. We are rebuilding. We don't need a 31 year old high-priced player.

As to his productivity vs. Wagner's -- leave out the colossal number of fouls Mo commits &, no question about it, his numbers are better than Love's at this point. Of course... you can't cherry pick something to leave out! But even counting the fouls, the difference between them isn't huge by any means.

[WallToWall]

As we get closer to the trade deadline, I'd be happy if we could get 2nd rounders for:
Mahinmi
McRae
Miles
IT

Lets say we get 3 or 4 second round picks for those players. If we package up all/some of our 2nd round picks, we could move up to a mid 1st round pick. Maybe we can strike gold there and then.