Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

[hands11]

Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.

[nate33]

I think the biggest similarity between Bazz and Harden is that both are left handed. For whatever reason, people always seem to compare left handed players.

I wonder why that is ?

As I said before. Same size. Same position and both left hand dominate. DAT pointing out that Shabbazz has much weaker handles would be a good point about how they are different. But handles can be improved. Let at least hope so. Beal is working on that right now.

That said, no one said he would be Harden. Harden has shown to have a special change of pace and great angles for getting to the rim. And he can pass.

But its a better comp than Barnes.

I agree with Dat2U that Harden is an absolutely absurd comparison to Shabazz. Their games are nothing alike. Harden is the anti-Shabazz because he can create, he can pass, and he is efficient.

Compare Shabazz to guys like Stackhouse or Maggette. Both are undersized small forwards who are strong and athletic, but are ball-stoppers who shoot too much and try to go one-on-five far too often. Neither guy ever won anything as a top 3 offensive option for their team.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

After the combine I feel much more optimistic about the draft even at 8 or 9. I have forwards Porter and Bennett, and centers Adams, Len, Zeller as all desirable and good fits for the Wizards. I'm confident at least one of these guys will be availabe to us wherever we pick.

[nuposse04]

Shabazz is basically Caron Butler. He can take one jab stub and take a decent mid range shot and has better range than Butler did in his career. They're both fierce competitors. I honestly think that is his best comparison. And honestly, if he ends up being like butler...I don't think that's a bad guy to get from the 8th pick. I think a reasonable assumption is also Webster. He may end up being a Webster clone if he really tries to work on his perimeter shooting. He's probably already a better finisher than Webster because of his strength. Neither are that great in the playmaking department but at least Webster seems to know when to pass.

I don't understand how some are more optimistic about Adams...isn't he MORE raw than Len?

Oh and Zeller still played this past season at 240 unless their official website lied. He still got dominated from that dude from Min. Every team will have a better big than him. Zeller weighed in at 230 at the combine, his ideal playing weight IMO will have to be around 250 lbs if he doesn't want to be a liability down low. I do suspect he'll lose some agility in the process...but he tested out to have enough where I wouldn't be concerned much. I'm just hoping some team is dumb enough to take him in the top 3. Might have a chance at Bennett falling in such a scenario if we're still 8. Although we just to hold out hope we land the 2nd/3rd pick at this rate.

[gesa2]

Just to throw in my 2 cents. There was a lot of unnecessary Barnes hate last year. His game was going to translate to the pros better and the Carolina system probably further held him back. That being said,I also don't see him as some type of all world performer. He benefits greatly from being the 4th most important guy on the floor that teams key in on. He doesn't go against an opponents best defenders and teams seem more willing to let him get 2 than to let Curry or Thompson get 3. If he were a primary option, you would see an inefficient scorer who has issues creating his own shot. The fit with him and GSW is a perfect match....

Back to the real point, although Barnes was a disappointment in college too, you could see how his game would translate to the pros whereas with Shabhazz, it's not as clear. Barnes had an NBA frame,position, and skillet....with Shabhazz, it's not as defined. I think he's a 6th man type, but will he shoot and effectively creat well enough? Will his oncourt demeanor fit in on a team full of younger players or does he need to be surrounded by vets who can tell him that pouting for the ball is no way to carry yourself?? A lot more question marks with him.

I like Barnes on Golden State, and agree that he was probably a little underrated in the draft last year. But arguments based on his playoff performance against San Antonio, where he was guarded by Tony Parker much of the time, fail to see context. SA knew that if they held Curry and Thompson in check they'd win. They set it up for Barnes to be the scorer on purpose. That Barnes was able to take advantage of the situation and score efficiently is good, but it's not the same as him doing it against Leonard.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Shabazz is basically Caron Butler. He can take one jab stub and take a decent mid range shot and has better range than Butler did in his career. They're both fierce competitors. I honestly think that is his best comparison. And honestly, if he ends up being like butler...I don't think that's a bad guy to get from the 8th pick. I think a reasonable assumption is also Webster. He may end up being a Webster clone if he really tries to work on his perimeter shooting. He's probably already a better finisher than Webster because of his strength. Neither are that great in the playmaking department but at least Webster seems to know when to pass.

I don't understand how some are more optimistic about Adams...isn't he MORE raw than Len?

Oh and Zeller still played this past season at 240 unless their official website lied. He still got dominated from that dude from Min. Every team will have a better big than him. Zeller weighed in at 230 at the combine, his ideal playing weight IMO will have to be around 250 lbs if he doesn't want to be a liability down low. I do suspect he'll lose some agility in the process...but he tested out to have enough where I wouldn't be concerned much. I'm just hoping some team is dumb enough to take him in the top 3. Might have a chance at Bennett falling in such a scenario if we're still 8. Although we just to hold out hope we land the 2nd/3rd pick at this rate.

Zeller is a PF in the NBA, as is Muscala. I think both of them have good size, length and skill to play there successfully IMO.

Adams, Len, Dieng, Withey are all true centers at the next level however.

[nuposse04]

The only thing Zeller has on most starting PFs is a rather long neck and a fairly good standing vertical. He's not a power leaper so I don't think he'll be going through people like the way Griffin does. I doubt he has the time to gather himself in the post to explode upwards like he does in a vertical jump measurement. I think he has to play 4 as well, but he isn't very skilled from the perimeter nor is he particularly strong for a 4 either. Right now I see a rich man's vesely (if he had confidence) crossed with Pyscho T. Which could be a good player actually...I'm not convinced he's starting quality on a contender.

[Dark Faze]

Why are people so high on Len but low on Zeller. Zeller looked better than Len in college in every aspect of basketball and is more athletic.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't get the love that Olynik is getting around here. Dude could be an option as a stretch 4 but he doesn't rebound and isn't strong enough at 235 to bang like we have seen from Z bo and Gasol. He played in a weak conference, doesn't protect the rim and seemed rattled in the tourney by physical play. IMO picking him over Zeller, or Len would be a huge mistake.

His advanced stats and the fact Gonzaga spent weeks rated #1 sway me to consider his ability. Pau Gasol wasn't strong when he won ROTY. He weighed less than Olynyk does now.

I do agree he should be picked after Len, and I think Zeller will be a better transition scorer than Olynyk.

I think the difference between Olynyk and Gasol is that Gasol has much better length than Olynyk. Even though Gasol started out weak, he always had defensive potential because he arms nearly drag on the ground when he's walking. Olynyk's short wing span will make him a bench player in the NBA. There's nothing wrong with that, but at 8 there will be better options.

I'm getting talked out of some of my Olynyk love. It's not like me to waiver once my mind is set, but I am thinking about his transition and envisioning others having an easier adjustment and more immediate impact.

My question are why is Olynyk ranked higher than Muscala? Is Olynyk mobile enough to start at 4? What is his assist/turnover ratio compared with other prospective 4/5 players in this draft? Can the same post moves work in the NBA, because if so his offense ranks very high. Olynyk was very successful all year, and what if he skipped the combine?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

i'm glad cody zellers numbers are reasonable and possibly can make a good pf in the league. I think at the 8th spot without a doubt we'll get a decent player. Thinking len most likely..but oladipo, porter, zeller, mccollum makes a long list of guys who'll fit in well. In the second round i'm now hopping for alan crabbe. I saw he was one of the guys we requested a meeting with and i think he can fit in as a third guard and he has huge size and wingspan. So len and crabbe is who i hope to get minimum

BruceO, I have a sneaking feeling Crabbe would be a good pick at #8.

Forget who asked me who this year's Faried is but I did notice Crabbe weeks before the NCAAs, when his coach overstepped in being demonstratively mean to him. Crabbe's not only a good physical specimen, but I think he's going to really improve over time based on what I infer from his background and upbringing that has been documented.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.

And they're going to be disappointed when Burke turns into a good, but not great pro.

Oladipo is going to be a VASTLY SUPERIOR player over the long haul. Burke is a great shooter. He's got a nice step back move. He hits big shots. He is a natural leader. However, PG is perhaps the NBA's most deep position. Burke isn't going to outgun all other PGs because he can't defend with the intensity or proficiency or toughness that Chris Paul does. Burke has a very refined offensive game but I don't see a destroyer in him like Chris Paul.

IMO there's NO WAY Burke should be the top pick. He's going to be a good pro but not a great pro. I say he's going to be like a Mo Williams/Mike Conley/Kyle Lowry kind of good PG.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think the biggest similarity between Bazz and Harden is that both are left handed. For whatever reason, people always seem to compare left handed players.

Jamaal Franklin is a lot more like James Harden than Shabazz Muhammed is like Harden.

[No-Man]

Burke is going to be at least at Deron Williams level.

If he pans out and works really hard, maybe even Parker's

I think Paul is unreachable for him because of concerns on defense.

He'll be the best player of this class without any doubt.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why are people so high on Len but low on Zeller. Zeller looked better than Len in college in every aspect of basketball and is more athletic.

Not every aspect, but certainly most.

Len blocks more shots and can defend Cs and is a legitimately massive individual. Alex is potentially a much better post defender and is probably as good as Zeller as a high post C. Len's going to surprise with his shooting range.

Zeller is a far superior runner, a better transition athlete, and he understands how to assert himself on offense. He's very energetic at that end.

Alex has superior size and potential, especially defensive potential. Zeller will likely score many more points (while giving up more, too, than Len).

[SUPERBALLMAN]

i'm glad cody zellers numbers are reasonable and possibly can make a good pf in the league. I think at the 8th spot without a doubt we'll get a decent player. Thinking len most likely..but oladipo, porter, zeller, mccollum makes a long list of guys who'll fit in well. In the second round i'm now hopping for alan crabbe. I saw he was one of the guys we requested a meeting with and i think he can fit in as a third guard and he has huge size and wingspan. So len and crabbe is who i hope to get minimum

BruceO, I have a sneaking feeling Crabbe would be a good pick at #8.

Forget who asked me who this year's Faried is but I did notice Crabbe weeks before the NCAAs, when his coach overstepped in being demonstratively mean to him. Crabbe's not only a good physical specimen, but I think he's going to really improve over time based on what I infer from his background and upbringing that has been documented.

Geez CCJ, I usually agree with you, but I am not high on Crabbe at all. To me he looks a carbon copy of Nick Young.

And I am also at a loss on why Muscala is rated so much lower than Olynyk. Very similar, both are PF in the NBA, and to me Muscala looked more fluid and skilled at the combine than Olynyk, and has better length.

I keep hoping Muscala will be there for us at 37, but I doubt he lasts that long. I see him moving up as the draft gets closer.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Burke is going to be at least at Deron Williams level.

If he pans out and works really hard, maybe even Parker's

I think Paul is unreachable for him because of concerns on defense.

He'll be the best player of this class without any doubt.

I will be tremendously surprised if Burke is the best player in this class. I'm not even sure he's the best PG.

Michigan had athletes, floor spacers, and a post presence. (Hardaway Jr., Robinson III, Stauskas, McGary) That team was built to be good offensively. Put Burke on South Dakota State in place of Nate Wolters and how good would Burke be? Put Burke on Lehigh and is he as good as C.J. McCollum? Put Trey Burke on University of Detroit Mercy and would he have been as successful as Ray McCallum Jr? Put Burke on Miami U and is he better than Shane Larkin?

Fischella, I like his game a lot but I think he might not be considerably better than Nate Wolters, Pierre Jackson, Ray McCallum, or Shane Larkin. On the other side of the ball, a lot of PGs get after it better defensively than Burke. The ones I named are good enough offensively to not be totally overshadowed by Burke, who is without a doubt a TREMENDOUS offensive talent with points and assists ability.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Geez CCJ, I usually agree with you, but I am not high on Crabbe at all. To me he looks a carbon copy of Nick Young.

And I am also at a loss on why Muscala is rated so much lower than Olynyk. Very similar, both are PF in the NBA, and to me Muscala looked more fluid and skilled at the combine than Olynyk, and has better length.

I keep hoping Muscala will be there for us at 37, but I doubt he lasts that long. I see him moving up as the draft gets closer.

Muscala is also a far, far better rebounder than Olynyk.

I'm just irrationally up on Crabbe because of the Price connection and what I think he's capable of, not what he did at Cal per se.

If I had to hang my hat on one or two players who I think are REALLY going to surprise, I would say Wolters and DJ Stephens. I also like, no matter how little press he gets, Zeke Marshall. I'm also looking forward to seeing what kind of pro Pierre Jackson will be. This draft has a lot of guys in round two projections, like Jackson, Isaiah Canaan, and Ray McCallum who look like they can be darned good contributors with the right team in the right system.

Wolters seems like a future starter to me. Can't see why he's rated so low, as well as Muscala.

[No-Man]

Burke on McCollum's shoes would drop 25 every night.
Yeah, he's clearly better than those guys, and younger.

Burke efficiency is oustanding, off the charts for a sophmore, by the way ¿post presence? Michigan had post presence in the Tnmt, when McGary actually played well, during the season he wasnt a factor, not at all.

You change Larkin for Burke and Miami would in the FF like Michigan was, Miami roster was great.

I like some of those guys you mention, Larkin and Jackson more than the other two, but they're back-ups for life in the NBA.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Burke on McCollum's shoes would drop 25 every night.
Yeah, he's clearly better than those guys, and younger.

Burke efficiency is oustanding, off the charts for a sophmore, by the way ¿post presence? Michigan had post presence in the Tnmt, when McGary actually played well, during the season he wasnt a factor, not at all.

You change Larkin for Burke and Miami would in the FF like Michigan was, Miami roster was great.

I like some of those guys you mention, Larkin and Jackson more than the other two, but they're back-ups for life in the NBA.

I really like your posts and your definitive take on things. It's going to be a lot of fun to see how all of our predictions pan out.

I can't see anybody being tougher than Pierre Jackson and nobody's quicker than Larkin. The thing about Wolters I like is his pure passer ratio while also generating a ton of offense. I think he's going to run free in the NBA. His past big games against teams like Washington, teams with NBA lottery talents, show that Wolters is an explosive scorer. He did it four years against all types on NCAA talent. What is most impressive to me is that he's a pretty complete player. Wolters didn't shine vs Michigan, but neither did Burke against South Dakota State.

Being a numbers guy, I think Wolters is going to be considerably better than projected.

[The Consiglieri]

Ok, I'm ready to project my #1.

I think come draft day, Trey Burke will be the consensus #1

I think its going to be between him, Otto and Len.

Otto will have the upside talk holding him back.
Len is injured.

Burke getting way to much props for his leadership and CP3 type comparisons. People will buy onto that.

While I think that Otto will probably go top 4, or at worst, sixth or seventh, I think there's zero chance he will go #1. Just doesn't have anywhere near the upside to justify that at slot 1. At the end of the day, teams picking at #1, are hoping for someone that might be great someday or will be. Porter isn't that.