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Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#661 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:10 pm

barelyawake wrote:The point would be there is no path to a championship by keeping Gil. That's why you can't provide even one path that gets us there. By losing Arenas, we have options with both cap and high draft picks. There are no options with keeping Gil -- at least, none that have been provided. Top draft picks doesn't mean we have to keep the talent either. It means we can trade them, but they have the clout of being top picks so they will get significant pieces in trade. It gives us more assets. With more cap, we can take on greater salaries and thus get even higher picks in a BOYD deal.

We don't have the assets to build a championship team. Period. And the only way to get more assets is high draft picks and cap room. Those are specifics.


Looking around at the wasteland of suck in the NBA, I don't see that we have the pieces to truly tank though. There is too much competition for the suck, and we landed our ball-dominant hypertalent too early in the process.

To suck your way to a championship requires a perfect storm of injured players quality talent at the right position but sitting on the bench. It requires the luck of perfect timing. You need to suck in the right year, and land that consensus #1 Big, despite long odds that ain't even close to 50/50. To swell those % points requires dedication to a half decade of suck, either to land the right guy in the right year or to stockpile talents that you can package and swap for the 2-way Big. Then you need an idiot of a willing partner who will trade him to you.

Problem is if you land your brilliant guard too early in the process, you have issues, inasmuch as they have far too much influence on the game and can get you wins early, but in the playoffs they don't take you over the top the way the dreadnought two-way Bigs do. We may be in that spot right now, and may have to find another method to land players. But I think we'll find that in adding Wall we're already better than the baddest of the worst. In that respect it make s the most sense to maximize the assets we have, not dump them for nothing. Squeeze every last positive benefit out of them. Trading high not low.

Losing Gil for nothing right now (ie for Wince, who is then flipped for (protected) picks, or bought out) gives us little long-term benefit. We suck in the wrong year. We load up weight on John Wall who by his own competitive rage will try too hard to win the whole thing by himself. A still-skinny kid, at age 19 --adjusting to the 82 game grind, to adulthood, to the pressures of burgeoning supastardom, and to the deadening effect of loss after loss-- can quickly sour on a team, a city, the whole experience. And learn habits that may take some time to unlearn. Learn to distance himself. Not allow losing to sting.

But put him next to a guy who can carry the weight, in a dark place with everything to prove, nothing to lose, humbled by lost chances, desperate to kick ass and take names. I think Johnny Ballgame will soak up a great deal of the positive benefit of playing next to a guy like the former Boy Wonder, now grown. A guy who trains with blowtorch intensity and works on his game with OCD-fixation like Gil always has.

Gilbert nearly lost everything. Lost the game he loves. Lost his freedom. Lost his good name, his endorsements, his positive reputation, the public love. Did lose his long-lost mother and any opportunity for true reconciliation.

His only road for redemption is success. Not superstardom, not media attention which will bite you with poison fangs if you stop stroking it. Winning.

Consider too that not only has Gilbert's best success come next to heavy use guards, but their success has swollen by playing next to him. Teams wishing to teach the rook a lesson may choose to load up on him, trap on the perimeter, knock him to the ground when he enters the lane. Bounce him around a little bit. 82 games of heavy pressure.

But if the presence of a healthy Gil can turn Mr19% DeShawn into Mr 50%, consider how teams will have to play the Wing positions with Gil and Wall running uptempo. Consider how Gil can play when he is in the off-ball ricochet role, running past triple screens at high speed, and the opponent's best defender is shadowing the rook.

A championship team needs a raise-the-game scorer, a dominant two-way Big, a competent and unrattled floor general, and a tactician with a sense of the moment directing the action from the sidelines. The tank method asks us to drop Gilbert in the hopes that we land two of the above. But there's less than a promise of a hope that we'd even land a player in the draft that can approximate what we already get by the (healthy) return of one Gilbert Jay Arenas Jr.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#662 » by no D in Hibachi » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:10 pm

hermitkid wrote:Based on fishercobs quote, can we finally kill this thread?


I don't think you can kill a legendary thread like this. The posts on this thread have been some of the most thoughtful, passionate, and persuasive posts on the Wiz board in a long long time, however, Ted does put some water on the 'trade Arenas now' fire.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#663 » by AlohaWiz » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:15 pm

Induveca wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Please. I've explained my position in the pages of this thread and in others, so won't waste more time on people who either aren't interested in listening or aren't willing to think outside the box.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. I fully expect Ted to pull the trigger if/when somebody does indeed offer expirings for Arenas. Until said time, I hope folks enjoy what little time Gil has left in DC.


You choose not to respond, possibly it was too logical?
Good players, try to win........

VS

There are better players we have a 5% chance of possibly get in the next 3 years.......and if monumental luck swings our way, we can win more than we could win now!

Sorry Rico, your argument doesn't hold water.........because you don't seem to have one here that can be supported by any rational logic.


I agree with Induveca on keeping Arenas, but I also think that Rico & those who would prefer to trade Arenas have made valid, logical arguments in their support. It's not illogical to argue in favor of increased financial flexibility, potentially higher draft picks because the team is losing, or removing any potentially negative influence Arenas may have on Wall. That being said, I simply don't agree with going that route.

I prefer to keep Arenas because I would rather take a chance that he can become a great player again. He has the potential to be one of those transcendent players a team needs to compete for the championship. Plus, I am extremely excited to see Wall & Arenas play together because it could be something truly special.

Sure, the Wizards could trade Arenas and possibly improve the team through the draft, free agency, or trade, but that's certainly not a given. I would rather root for an Arenas comeback than hope that we get lucky with the draft sometime in the next few years.

Or, I suppose I could do both. I'm pretty confident that Leonsis will not hesitate to acquire as many draft picks as possible to increase the odds of landing another special player. Just think about the fact that this year the Wizards had 4 draft picks. That's only happened one other time in recent memory (in 2002). If Leonsis continues to gather as many draft picks as possible, then with increased odds we might get lucky with a later pick (like Boston with Rondo). Or, the Wizards could package multiple picks together with Blatche and/or McGee (maybe Seraphin and/or Booker depending on how they develop) to acquire the missing piece to the puzzle by trading up in the draft or acquiring players through trades to improve the team.

Part of me wanting the team to keep Arenas is that I want to see winning basketball again. The past two years have been miserable. But, I don't think that getting back on the winning track means the Wizards will be stuck in mediocrity. Success breeds success. The Wizards may very well become competitive with Arenas/Wall to the extent that free agent front court players view Washington as a desireable team to play for, especially with Leonsis in charge.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#664 » by no D in Hibachi » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:15 pm

doclinkin wrote:Looking around at the wasteland of suck in the NBA, I don't see that we have the pieces to truly tank though. There is too much competition for the suck, and we landed our ball-dominant hypertalent too early in the process.

To suck your way to a championship requires a perfect storm of injured players quality talent at the right position but sitting on the bench. It requires the luck of perfect timing. You need to suck in the right year, and land that consensus #1 Big, despite long odds that ain't even close to 50/50. To swell those % points requires dedication to a half decade of suck, either to land the right guy in the right year or to stockpile talents that you can package and swap for the 2-way Big. Then you need an idiot of a willing partner who will trade him to you.

Problem is if you land your brilliant guard too early in the process, you have issues, inasmuch as they have far too much influence on the game and can get you wins early, but in the playoffs they don't take you over the top the way the dreadnought two-way Bigs do.

Losing Gil for nothing right now (ie for Wince, who is then flipped for (protected) picks, or bought out) gives us little long-term benefit. We suck in the wrong year. We load up weight on John Wall who by his own competitive rage will try too hard to win the whole thing by himself. A still-skinny kid, at age 19 --adjusting to the 82 game grind, to adulthood, to the pressures of burgeoning supastardom, and to the deadening effect of loss after loss-- can quickly sour on a team, a city, the whole experience. And learn habits that may take some time to unlearn. Learn to distance himself. Not allow losing to sting.

But put him next to a guy who can carry the weight, in a dark place with everything to prove, nothing to lose, humbled by lost chances, desperate to kick ass and take names. I think Johnny Ballgame will soak up a great deal of the positive benefit of playing next to a guy like the former Boy Wonder, now grown. A guy who trains with blowtorch intensity and works on his game with OCD-fixation like Gil always has.

Gilbert nearly lost everything. Lost the game he loves. Lost his freedom. Lost his good name, his endorsements, his positive reputation, the public love. Did lose his long-lost mother and any opportunity for true reconciliation.

His only road for redemption is success. Not superstardom, not media attention which will bite you with poison fangs if you stop stroking it. Winning.

Consider too that not only has Gilbert's best success come next to heavy use guards, but their success has swollen by playing next to him. Teams wishing to teach the rook a lesson may choose to load up on him, trap on the perimeter, knock him to the ground when he enters the lane. Bounce him around a little bit. 82 games of heavy pressure.

But if the presence of a healthy Gil can turn Mr19% DeShawn into Mr 50%, consider how teams will have to play the Wing positions with Gil and Wall running uptempo. Consider how Gil can play when he is in the off-ball ricochet role, running past triple screens at high speed, and the opponent's best defender is shadowing the rook.

A championship team needs a raise-the-game scorer, a dominant two-way Big, a competent and unrattled floor general, and a tactician with a sense of the moment directing the action from the sidelines. The tank method asks us to drop Gilbert in the hopes that we land two of the above. But there's less than a promise of a hope that we'd even land a player in the draft that can approximate what we already get by the (healthy) return of one Gilbert Jay Arenas Jr.

Hall of Fame worthy post Doc. Three cheers for Doc everyone!
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#665 » by Induveca » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:16 pm

Well put Doc, and far more eloquently than I could ever hope to do.......excellent post.

And for the record I don't find cap flexibility to be illogical, I find searching out cap flexibility in an attempt to sign championship caliber players on the open market at a 5-10% probably success rate irrational. Especially when it's done by dumping a superstar level player already on the team for said cap space.

Just doesn't make sense. That being said I think we've all made our points here, is/has been an excellent argument. I tend to get a bit passionate, simply because I want to see this damn team win some games finally! Can't stand another 2 years of guaranteed losses, and I don't want our team to mishandle another #1 pick. Arenas will take a lot of pressure off Wall.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#666 » by gesa2 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:20 pm

hermitkid wrote:I for one can't wait to see an Arenas/Wall backcourt, opposing guards will have their hands full trying to contain those two.

Based on fishercobs quote, can we finally kill this thread?


Are you kidding? This is good spirited debate, even if sometimes people's feathers are getting a bit ruffled. I can see both sides to the story but lean on the "don't trade talent for capspace even if it's overpaid" side. I've read posts that made me rethink my position. Less so when either side gets huffy or patronizing, and implies that the others are morons :violin: . It all really comes down to what we think we can get out of Arenas, whether we think he can change, play D, accept a new role. There's no proof that he will, for sure. There's also no proof that we won't end up using our capspace as effectively as NJ has this year. Perfect situation for a chat board!
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#667 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:06 am

Induveca wrote:So basically we have two camps:

1. Dump Arenas for Vince Carter and get cap space and "flexibility", then cross your fingers we sign a "game changer" player as a free agent. And lose as much as possible, because after all if you don't win a championship it's not even worth trying. (I'll call this the LeBron/Just Give Up model). No need to see how Arenas plays alongside Wall. They might be so good that we can't tank and get another high pick. Ignore the fact we have tons of cap space regardless and can sign others even with Arenas.
2. Keep Arenas, see how he gels with Wall and an improved Blatche and try to win some games and field an entertaining/competitive team. Dumping everything for the likes of Batum/Gasol and a pie in the sky shot at Carmelo Anthony doesn't make sense. (I'll call this the compete as hard as possible model).

I just don't get #1. We just landed the first overall pick and everyone wants to dump his running mate before we even see them play together.

This "plan" everyone is talking about who supports the 1st argument is more ridiculous than the possibility than Wall/Arenas/Blatche play well together and make some noise. If Wall becomes the next Chris Paul, why can't he/Arenas/Blatche/McGee make it to the second round? Is that not good enough? Is the expectation of camp #1 to tank until we can immediately reach the finals?

It isn't a plan, it's an epic tank. If replacing Arenas with a Gasol/Batum type combo is your idea of winning a championship, I'm not sure what to say. Wall and Blatche aren't enough, there is always a need for a second star level player. We already have one and he's not destroying us financially.

If you want to complain about something, complain about signing Yi etc.......he could have been your Batum and still keep Arenas.


While I'm in camp #2, there is a camp #3. It's to suck as much as possible by unloading Gilbert Arenas to tank not only for next year but the next 2-3 years. The Wizards could start to stockpile picks and attempt to build through youth. Sure, the Wizards wouldn't be worth watching for the next 3-4 years but they would have an opportunity to become a very good team. The Wizards already have that one piece in John Wall. This is the NBA where sometimes it's better to get worse before you can get better. Although trading for Vince Carter certainly doesn't help them stink next season, and John Wall will be good enough to make this team mediocre enough to be in the high end of the lottery IMO unless of course the Wizards want to dump other players like Andray Blatche and Javale McGee.

However, this plan like any plan is not full proof. Look at the Clippers who never seem to anything despite getting high picks all the time. Yes they have had bad luck (Blake Griffin), but eventually their best players (Lamar Odom and Elton Brand) choose to leave. The Hawks also managed to tank for a while to assemble it's current core and have been a top 4 seed the past few years.

The Trail Blazers also spent some time in purgatory while drafting guys like Martell Webster, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Brandon Roy. And of course, we all know what the Thunder have been through with Durant, Westbrook, and Jeff Green.

But I agree that Gilbert Arenas is a very good player. In his last month he averaged 25 ppg, and 7 apg while shooting 43% from the field. If he cut down his mistakes such as turnovers (3.8) and improved his jumper to where it was back in 2008, Arenas could return to being one of the elite players. Arenas also gets someone to take off the pressure in John Wall and the emergence of Andray Blatche.

To those who say the Wizards cannot win a championship with Arenas, then they MUST trade him are incorrect. But I do understand a strong urgency to trade Arenas because he has been injured. Still, it's been 2 years since his last knee surgery and it looks like he would have returned to form during the 2nd half of the season. People said that Kobe wasn't himself after his knee surgery in 2005-06 but later picked it up and scored 81 points against the Toronto Raptors. Given that Arenas is a gym rat, I actually think that Arenas will be better than he was in the 2009-10 season, although I don't think Arenas will end up making his living at the free throw line like he did back in the 2006-07 season.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#668 » by barelyawake » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:15 am

Doc, I've already addressed almost everything in your post, so as to not rewrite it, I'll summarize.

1) You say we are too good to tank (without Arenas). Please list the teams worse than us, with basically just Wall and Blatche and no bench.

2) Wall will be hurt by losing a couple seasons. I don't believe that in the slightest. Wall is a winner and a leader, and he has Hinny as his guide who maintained being a leader and a fighter despite losing.

3) Wall will be so good he'll up everyone's trade value to the point where some Gm will trade us a gamechanging big for them. I assume that's what you meant in the middle. That ain't gonna happen. None of our players have any clout what-so-ever. When you draft a top two pick, you have a load of GMs who wanted that player (and a fanbase of fans wishing they could have had that player). We don't have players like that. We have a second round pick who people imagine will be a multiple year Allstar eventually. We have a short shooting guard who has multiple things going against him in the eyes of every other teams' fans. We don't have players that other teams' fans would be happy to give-up a gamechanger for.

4)my iPhone sucks. It's not even letting me see what I write. Ok, four. Without Gil we need two players versus one. And that's true. But, there is a path to get those players. There are multiple options available. We have yet to hear one path that makes any sense from the keep Gil people. How do you get the gamechanging big?
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#669 » by KevinFCheng » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:22 am

The problem is trading Arenas is that with or without him, Wall will make this team much better. So the difference between trading him or not would be either we get something like the 8th pick or 12th pick. Is that a huge difference? This year, it would be Al Farouq Aminu vs Xavier Henry. It is that big of a difference? Would this take us over the top? Would it be worth totally missing the playoffs and giving Wall valuable playoff experience his first year? Like it or not, Arenas still sells some tickets. And so what if we have immediate capspace? Who would go to a rebuilding team without Arenas that would most likely win 28-32 games and is years from contending? The free agents we need to contend most likely would not come and then what do we do? Overpay for 2nd tier guys or not use it at all? With Ted, we won't spend it. I say Arenas lures free agents and pieces we need to go deeper and make a stronger playoff run.

Trading him right now makes zero sense. At least give him 1 year to show his worth, improve his stock, and see how he meshes with Wall. I don't understand the notion how Arenas is a bad influence on Wall. First, Wall is not Kwame. He is not a mentally fragile baby that needs to be babied. He, in my opinion, is headstrong and independent. Second, Arenas has never considered to be a locker room cancer. Knucklehead? Yes. He's made his mistakes but he has never been a cancer or divisive force in the locker room.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#670 » by AceDegenerate » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:27 am

With Arenas this is a 40-45 Win team.

Without Arenas this is a 30-35 Win team.

You need to remove John Wall in order to put this team back into the High Lottery Pick range.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#671 » by cdouglas » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:34 am

Looks like the Arenas trade with Magic has resurfaced. They're saying something might go down this week. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1037788
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#672 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:36 am

doclinkin wrote:
Looking around at the wasteland of suck in the NBA, I don't see that we have the pieces to truly tank though. There is too much competition for the suck, and we landed our ball-dominant hypertalent too early in the process.

To suck your way to a championship requires a perfect storm of injured players quality talent at the right position but sitting on the bench. It requires the luck of perfect timing. You need to suck in the right year, and land that consensus #1 Big, despite long odds that ain't even close to 50/50. To swell those % points requires dedication to a half decade of suck, either to land the right guy in the right year or to stockpile talents that you can package and swap for the 2-way Big. Then you need an idiot of a willing partner who will trade him to you.

Problem is if you land your brilliant guard too early in the process, you have issues, inasmuch as they have far too much influence on the game and can get you wins early, but in the playoffs they don't take you over the top the way the dreadnought two-way Bigs do. We may be in that spot right now, and may have to find another method to land players. But I think we'll find that in adding Wall we're already better than the baddest of the worst. In that respect it make s the most sense to maximize the assets we have, not dump them for nothing. Squeeze every last positive benefit out of them. Trading high not low.

Losing Gil for nothing right now (ie for Wince, who is then flipped for (protected) picks, or bought out) gives us little long-term benefit. We suck in the wrong year. We load up weight on John Wall who by his own competitive rage will try too hard to win the whole thing by himself. A still-skinny kid, at age 19 --adjusting to the 82 game grind, to adulthood, to the pressures of burgeoning supastardom, and to the deadening effect of loss after loss-- can quickly sour on a team, a city, the whole experience. And learn habits that may take some time to unlearn. Learn to distance himself. Not allow losing to sting.

But put him next to a guy who can carry the weight, in a dark place with everything to prove, nothing to lose, humbled by lost chances, desperate to kick ass and take names. I think Johnny Ballgame will soak up a great deal of the positive benefit of playing next to a guy like the former Boy Wonder, now grown. A guy who trains with blowtorch intensity and works on his game with OCD-fixation like Gil always has.

Gilbert nearly lost everything. Lost the game he loves. Lost his freedom. Lost his good name, his endorsements, his positive reputation, the public love. Did lose his long-lost mother and any opportunity for true reconciliation.

His only road for redemption is success. Not superstardom, not media attention which will bite you with poison fangs if you stop stroking it. Winning.

Consider too that not only has Gilbert's best success come next to heavy use guards, but their success has swollen by playing next to him. Teams wishing to teach the rook a lesson may choose to load up on him, trap on the perimeter, knock him to the ground when he enters the lane. Bounce him around a little bit. 82 games of heavy pressure.

But if the presence of a healthy Gil can turn Mr19% DeShawn into Mr 50%, consider how teams will have to play the Wing positions with Gil and Wall running uptempo. Consider how Gil can play when he is in the off-ball ricochet role, running past triple screens at high speed, and the opponent's best defender is shadowing the rook.

A championship team needs a raise-the-game scorer, a dominant two-way Big, a competent and unrattled floor general, and a tactician with a sense of the moment directing the action from the sidelines. The tank method asks us to drop Gilbert in the hopes that we land two of the above. But there's less than a promise of a hope that we'd even land a player in the draft that can approximate what we already get by the (healthy) return of one Gilbert Jay Arenas Jr.


Wow doc, I've been saying the same thing since we found out we landed Wall but you said it sooooooooooo much better than I ever could. Great post.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#673 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:45 am

KevinFCheng wrote:The problem is trading Arenas is that with or without him, Wall will make this team much better. So the difference between trading him or not would be either we get something like the 8th pick or 12th pick. Is that a huge difference? This year, it would be Al Farouq Aminu vs Xavier Henry. It is that big of a difference? Would this take us over the top? Would it be worth totally missing the playoffs and giving Wall valuable playoff experience his first year?


What I've been saying all along. I'm glad Wall opened some eyes last week because I had been telling folks from day one that Wall will be a star and impact player from jump. I said he was better than people on here where giving him credit for. People kept throwing up the comparables & numbers of other rookie PGs and the limited impact guys like DRose & DWill had their rookie years. Comparing DRose to Wall is disrespectful to Wall. Wall is the best prospect to enter the NBA since Durant, and the best guard since Wade came into the league. We aren't going 20-62 with Wall leading our team, he's too good for that. His will, his personality, his leadership won't allow it.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#674 » by mhd » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:56 am

Dat2U wrote:
KevinFCheng wrote:The problem is trading Arenas is that with or without him, Wall will make this team much better. So the difference between trading him or not would be either we get something like the 8th pick or 12th pick. Is that a huge difference? This year, it would be Al Farouq Aminu vs Xavier Henry. It is that big of a difference? Would this take us over the top? Would it be worth totally missing the playoffs and giving Wall valuable playoff experience his first year?


What I've been saying all along. I'm glad Wall opened some eyes last week because I had been telling folks from day one that Wall will be a star and impact player from jump. I said he was better than people on here where giving him credit for. People kept throwing up the comparables & numbers of other rookie PGs and the limited impact guys like DRose & DWill had their rookie years. Comparing DRose to Wall is disrespectful to Wall. Wall is the best prospect to enter the NBA since Durant, and the best guard since Wade came into the league. We aren't going 20-62 with Wall leading our team, he's too good for that. His will, his personality, his leadership won't allow it.



Darn right Dat.

Next year's draft is going to be nowhere near as deep as this one. Moreover, many won't declare with a potential lockout looming. Even if we were salary champs, we still have to reach a salary floor. See the Nets forced to spend money on scrubs to reach that floor.

We have young players in Blatche, Java, Seraphin, Booker, Wall, and Young. We should be trying to add winning to that mentality.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#675 » by cdouglas » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:56 am

If Gilbert is traded, I have nothing to look forward to when the season starts. I'm sorry, watching Hinrich play alongside Wall does nothing for me! :evil:
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#676 » by willbcocks » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:03 am

"Leonsis repeated that he wouldn't have traded the No. 5 pick last year, but that adding veterans fit in with the plan Ernie Grunfeld was tasked with, so he doesn't hold that against his front-office. "

This was from the earlier post article, I didn't see anyone comment on it, but it clarifies some things we've been talking about on here for awhile.


Back to the thread, it looks like, to some extent, the Gil'ers think our current team is better than the tankers do. Luckily, this one will be easy to prove as we'll see once the season starts. Almost all the Gil'ers are predicting 40-45 wins next year with Gil. Barely, myself, and some of the tankers are predicting 35 wins max with Gil, with the possibility of far fewer (remember, planning for possible injuries is a part of predicting).

I think the league will have more 35-40 win teams next year. Last year there were a lot of pretty bad teams. Win 28 games last year and you picked what, 10th? This year, I think there will be more mediocre teams. The Knicks will probably be mediocre. If the cavs make a move to compete now, they will probably be mediocre (just having as many veterans as they do will help their W/L). Charlotte will be mediocre. Indiana finished the year strong and could win 35 games. Philadelphia could win more games than we do, and if Monroe plays well Detroit could too. Out west, at least 10 teams, and as many as 13 teams could win 35 games. Sactown and the Clippers are both better and its hard to say any of the other teams, except NO, have gotten worse enough that they'l fall below that.

I think we are way too inexperienced and have serious holes. If we hadn't won the lottery, I would have predicted 20 wins, with Gil. Wall's a beast, but a human one.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#677 » by willbcocks » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:10 am

Another thing is I don't see Gil a great permanent solution at SG. For me, it's not a situation where we have one hole plugged instead of two. The Gil hole is still leaking a lot of oil on the defensive end.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#678 » by Illuminaire » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:54 am

Krizko Zero wrote:You need to remove John Wall in order to put this team back into the High Lottery Pick range.


Our crack medical staff is already on the job!
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#679 » by hands11 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:38 am

hands11 wrote:After 35 pages, it may be time to bring out the beating a dead horse picture.

Not sure anything new is going to get written.

Those what want Gil have voiced it.

Those that don't, have voiced it also.

The line has been cast. Now we just have to sit and wait.

Wait for Gil news.
Wait for Dray news
Wait for Seraphin news.
And maybe some Singleton news.


11 pages later is the horse is not only dead, it is now headless.
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Re: Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space? 

Post#680 » by JWizmentality » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:48 am

hands11 wrote:
11 pages later is the horse is not only dead, it is now headless.


:uhoh:

I didn't mean to do it, I swear! The sucker was looking at me funny!

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