2012 NBA Draft

Benjammin · Post #661 » by **Benjammin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:14 pm

nate33 wrote:As the draft rolls around, the Wizards should start leaking stories about how much they like Drummond and how much they don't want to pay McGee's new expensive contract.

If we're picking high enough to grab Drummond, and we want good value in a trade-down scenario, we need to convince teams that we don't want to move down.

I agree nate, but it's still harder to extract value in this situation in the NBA draft than the NFL draft. I don't reject Drummond out of hand at 2 or 3 because even if one has a good level of confidence in McGee that would not preclude me from taking Drummond if he were clearly the best player at that spot and I couldn't trade down a a spot or two and get additional value.

There is good news in this draft at least. Most of the top guys have readily identifiable skills that are lacking on the Wizards now. I think that's why it is attractive to dream about getting two of those guys if it were possible to convert Vesely plus whatever to achieve that.

fishercob · Post #662 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:30 pm

Mizerooskie wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:If the Wizards end up with the #2 pick, I don't want Drummond. I hope they trade down to pick Robinson, Sullinger, or Kidd Gilchrist.

I think swapping picks for Sullinger and a future #1 is better than selecting Drummond.

I don't like PJ3 at all.

Agree with you on PJ3 and Drummond, but don't agree with you on moving down. I think both Robinson and Sullinger will be consensus top-5 guys when the draft rolls around. I'd just go ahead and pick whichever one of them I liked better. Only way I'd move down was if the team at 3 or 4 really coveted Drummond. That way, you're guaranteed one of those two PFs.

As of right now, here's how I'd rank my top-15 (or so) draft prospects for the Wizards (using a mini tier system):

Tier 1 - Anthony Davis
Tier 2 - Thomas Robinson, Jared Sullinger
Tier 3 - MKG, Harrison Barnes, Bradley Beal, Jeremy Lamb, John Henson, Arnett Moultrie
Tier 4 - Andre Drummond, Perry Jones III, Terrence Jones, Quincy Miller, Tony Wroten, Terrence Ross, Meyers Leonard, Patric Young

As you can see, I really don't like Drummond or Jones. While Drummond's got some great physical tools and is putting up decent numbers, I don't like the inconsistency of his effort, and he seems to lack a fire in his belly that he'll need for his position in the NBA. PJ3 wants to be a 2, but he'll never be a 2. And I bet he'll always want to be a 2.

If you haven't gotten a chance to, try to catch Moultrie in action. He's my semi-sleeper for the draft . You'll definitely be a fan of him, CCJ.

In the little I've seen of Drummond, this is my sense as well. He needs to do a lot to prove to me he's a better prospect than many of the guys you mention.

pcbothwel · Post #663 » by **pcbothwel** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:00 pm

My dream scenerio for months has been to Use Drummond to trade down and get Robinson and Beal. Unfortunatly Robinson is doing what I thought he would and now he'll go top 5.
And for those saying he is smaller than Stoudemire. Amare was 6'8.5 w/o shoes(6'10 with), 233lbs and a 7'1.5 wingspan and 9'0.5 standing reach.

At the Amare skills camp last year Robinson measured 6'10 in shoes, 240lbs and a 7'1 Wingspan. Just sayin'

Benjammin · Post #664 » by **Benjammin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:03 pm

pcbothwel wrote:My dream scenerio for months has been to Use Drummond to trade down and get Robinson and Beal. Unfortunatly Robinson is doing what I thought he would and now he'll go top 5.
And for those saying he is smaller than Stoudemire. Amare was 6'8.5 w/o shoes(6'10 with), 233lbs and a 7'1.5 wingspan and 9'0.5 standing reach.

At the Amare skills camp last year Robinson measured 6'10 in shoes, 240lbs and a 7'1 Wingspan. Just sayin'

Don't be bringing those facts into this conversation.

I don't remember what Amare looked like as a high schooler the year he was drafted, but my impression of Robinson and Amare is that Amare is broader than Robinson. But in any event, I think Robinson is certainly big enough to be a quality two way 4.

Dat2U · Post #665 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:14 pm

Robinson has moved solidly into the 3/4 range with Drummond. Not ready to write Drummond off because he isn't dominating yet. Davis & MKG have #1 & #2 locked up in my book.

I simply refuse put Sullinger any higher than 5 at this point because of the physical limitations. I desperately want a two way player and I don't see Sully as being one. To me Sullinger is the worst case scenario if we get totally housed in the lottery.

With Robinson, I think he's closer to Kenyon Martin than Amare. Not quite the offensive arsenal of Amare but with far more intensity defensively and on the boards.

PJ III is slipping in my book. Top 3 talent but watching him compared to Robinson, the energy, activity & intensity just don't measure up. I'm seeing him as more a mid-to-late lottery choice.

fishercob · Post #666 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 pm

I do love that one can scout much of this year's lottery by watching UNC, UConn, Kentucky, Ohio State, Baylor, Florida and Kansas.

Dat2U · Post #667 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:20 pm

fishercob wrote:I do love that one can scout much of this year's lottery by watching UNC, UConn, Kentucky, Ohio State, Baylor, Florida and Kansas.

Haha! True dat.

Benjammin · Post #668 » by **Benjammin** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:22 pm

Dat2U wrote:
fishercob wrote:I do love that one can scout much of this year's lottery by watching UNC, UConn, Kentucky, Ohio State, Baylor, Florida and Kansas.

Haha! True dat.

Yeah, what an amazing correlation of high profile teams, high in the polls, with the top NBA prospects, who would have thought? Seriously though, it does make it fun.

pancakes3 · Post #669 » by **pancakes3** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:23 pm

when i look at drummond, race aside, i can't help but see bj mullens.

fishercob · Post #670 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:33 pm

Benjammin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
fishercob wrote:I do love that one can scout much of this year's lottery by watching UNC, UConn, Kentucky, Ohio State, Baylor, Florida and Kansas.

Haha! True dat.

Yeah, what an amazing correlation of high profile teams, high in the polls, with the top NBA prospects, who would have thought? Seriously though, it does make it fun.

No internationals to worry about scouting, no Jimmers put up huge numbers for a mid-major, etc.

pancakes3 · Post #671 » by **pancakes3** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:57 pm

it's a throwback to what scouting must have been like in the 80's.

fishercob · Post #672 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:04 pm

but with longer shorts

Jay81 · Post #673 » by **Jay81** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:16 pm

the worst we will pick this year is 4th based on our tankalicious apporach to this season

we are guaranteed Davis,Drummond,Robinson,MKG---

If we get the #1 pick..i would not mind trading down to 3 or 4 and adding another lottery pick

Dat2U · Post #674 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:32 pm

Trading down should not even be a consideration.

Trading up should be.

Post #675 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:34 pm

Benjammin wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:My dream scenerio for months has been to Use Drummond to trade down and get Robinson and Beal. Unfortunatly Robinson is doing what I thought he would and now he'll go top 5.
And for those saying he is smaller than Stoudemire. Amare was 6'8.5 w/o shoes(6'10 with), 233lbs and a 7'1.5 wingspan and 9'0.5 standing reach.

At the Amare skills camp last year Robinson measured 6'10 in shoes, 240lbs and a 7'1 Wingspan. Just sayin'

Don't be bringing those facts into this conversation. I don't remember what Amare looked like as a high schooler the year he was drafted, but my impression of Robinson and Amare is that Amare is broader than Robinson. But in any event, I think Robinson is certainly big enough to be a quality two way 4.

I think pcb makes a good point there - Amare really isn't that big. What he does have is amazing body control. With most bigs - they get a little to a lot out of control when they make spin moves. Amare has probably the best control of someone with his size, power, and athleticism that I've ever seen.

Ayt · Post #676 » by **Ayt** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:18 pm

nate33 wrote:Harden reminds a lot of prime Ginobili. He has no weaknesses to his game. He does everything well and does a real good job of taking what the defense gives him.

Shane Battier, an expert at utilizing advanced scouting reports to prepare to defend a player, said that Ginobili was one of the hardest guys in the league to guard because he had no tendencies. He had roughly the same effectiveness no matter if you forced him left or right, to drive or shoot, played him soft or crowded him. Nothing made any difference on his scoring efficiency.

Ginobli is the comparison I made prior to the draft. I also compared him a SG sized Paul Pierce. He's one of those rare SGs you can run an offense through since he has no real weaknesses in his game.

Dat2U · Post #677 » by **Dat2U** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:08 am

Man getting Anthony Davis would make going 5-61 acceptable IMO. 27 pts, 15 rebs & 7 blks tonite. Just complete domination. I'm trying to think who he compares to in college but I can't come up with any recent comparisons. I don't think even Tim Duncan was THIS good as a freshman.

long suffrin' boulez fan · Post #678 » by **long suffrin' boulez fan** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:13 am

Hate to say it, but Kentucky would beat the Wiz, badly, right now.

Man, what a difference between last draft and the next one. Terrence Jones might have been the forth or fifth pick in 2011. I'm not convinced he's the fourth or fifth player on Kentucky.

I'd love to boonswaggle another pick. Been chewin on Nate's Wall for Augustin and an unprotected 1st...

Augustin
Gordon
Kidd Gilchrest
Davis
Mcgee

I could live with that for starters.

Jay81 · Post #679 » by **Jay81** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:36 am

What makes everyone think we're getting Eric Gordon?

Jay81 · Post #680 » by **Jay81** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:37 am

Dat2U wrote:Man getting Anthony Davis would make going 5-61 acceptable IMO. 27 pts, 15 rebs & 7 blks tonite. Just complete domination. I'm trying to think who he compares to in college but I can't come up with any recent comparisons. I don't think even Tim Duncan was THIS good as a freshman.

you think we will win 5 games? Would love to have 2 top 6 picks this year