Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[dobrojim]

What you are missing is that the wizards can't sign any quality free agents because those two are here. They won't have the capspace to offer more than the MLE to anyone.

The possibility of signing a quality free agent was always a crapshoot. I don't blame Ted and EG for not liking the odds and going another way for the short term.

+1. We added an 3 and D SF who is a clear upgrade over what we have and we added another big who gives up depth, shot blocking, and rebounding. Best of all, we don't trade down and still have the 3rd pick.

We were not going to be a player in FA for anything other than maybe 1 MLE type of player. We would have had to give out a max deal for Batum or Eric Gordon. Even an MLE type would have required a 4 yr commitment in all likelihood. This trade and this draft pick give us a chance to be a playoff team with a mix of vets and young players. How far we go will depend on Wall, the 3rd pick, Seraphin, and Vesely's development. The good thing is now we've built an environment that can help them grow to their potential.

Let's say they become a 7th/8th seed type of team. In two years we will be a playoff team with $20+ MM coming off the books and Wall's rookie class all entering their RFA season. We'll have money to throw at Demarcus Cousins, or Favors, etc....)

We're also not done. There will be a smaller moves made with some of our other young guys on their rookie deals. Booker, Singleton, & Crawford I imagine are all being shopped going into the draft. I'm hoping we have someone willing to give us a mid first for Booker and our 2nd rounder...get two wing scorers in this draft. Then re-sign Singleton & Carter and I think we're a playoff team.

I could see Crawford being shopped. I see a lot less chance that Booker and Singleton
would be. Unless they were blown away by the offer.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I don't understand how this trade will limit Seraphin's ability to get 30 minutes a night. I expect him to still end up as a starter next to Nene, but even if he doesn't there are minutes to go around between him, Nene, and Okafor. Booker and Vesely may get squeezed a bit but I honestly don't expect both of them on the roster before the season. I think Booker will be shopped leading up to the draft.

Nothing wrong with quality depth and making the young guys learn how to play and then earn their PT; the exact same point Doc Rivers made about this team in his comment about Avery Bradley.

Ryan Anderson and Ilysova would have cost $8-10 MM annually for a long-term deal; and even then you may not have convinced them to come here unless you paid a little more.

We've gotten a decent look at the guys on rookie deals the past two years. The team can't just throw them out there and expect they'll learn on the job. They also have an idea (at least for the '10 class) on who they feel are long-term fits. IMO, Wall, Seraphin, and Vesely are the long-term holds. Singleton, Booker, and Crawford will likely be availabe for the right deal.

You expect Okafor to be okay with being traded to the Wizards AND benched in favor of 22 year-old Kevin Serapin? I don't! No, I remember when Antawn and Caron's play was bad but they blamed the young guys. They started and were largely ineffectual under Saunders. He kept their minutes high and the losing was as consistent as Flip was inflexible. Nene will start and he will average starters minutes. So will the other veteran, Okafor. Both those guys will play over 30 minutes a game. That leaves at most 36 minutes for Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, and Blatche (if not amnestied).

I can't see Seraphin starting, jivelikenice, for one reason: He played C last season. That is the position both Nene and Okafor are most comfortable with. One of them will start there and I predict the other will start at PF.

I think you are right about Booker being shopped leading to the draft. I am not so sure about who fits into the Wizards' long term plans, but those guys you named would seem to. Why go out and acquire a player who will take their minutes?

Quality depth is one thing but guys who are 30 and who have started their entire careers don't come to the Wizards to be role players off the bench. They won't be happy sharing minutes and stats to 22-year olds, under Randy Wittman as coach. This deal has a chance to implode for all the quality depth it added. Ariza was on a championship team. He has gone from Larry Brown, to Phil Jackson, to Rick Adelman, to Monty Williams (a class act) to Randy Wittman. Wittman is a coach who needs to have buy in from his veterans. He can chew out a young guy, but I want to see what happens if Okafor outplays Nene and Nene wants to sit out.

Let me stop, because I am creating a worst-case scenario. It might go down all to the good. We will see.

[Higga]

Well the one good thing I can say about Wittman is that he'll play the best player regardless of age or contract.

[nuposse04]

What does it matter if Okafor's feelings get hurt if he's benched? I've said it before I'll say it again, I truly belive Randy will play the best player. The young guys played hard for him because at least he was honest with him. As long as our good young players feel threatened by the competition they will drive themselves to compete harder...that is the best thing I can take away from this mess. That and we're left with two scenarios that should occur:

Either flip Okafor for a wing prospect OR package Booker+Ariza for a wing prospect. I consider this situation to salvageable if one of those occur.

[Severn Hoos]

Why can't trade supporters just admit that the deal was done so-that Ted would-not have to pay-out for Shard w/o getting something,that's the bottom-line here, everything else is just smoke and mirrors and PR spin. The trade was not done with the long-term interest of the team in-mind. I still have a glimmer of hope that something is going to happen on draft-night to make more basketball sense for the organization.

I think that's true but I don't think it can't also be true that it's good mgmt
to not pay a lot for nothing.

It took me 10 minutes to figure out what this sentence is saying. Still working on it....

[LyricalRico]

That said, we shouldn't discount taking MKG either. It ain't like Ariza
is going to be around forever and MKG is so young that what Fish has said
about Beal and expectations has to apply to MKG as well if he becomes the pick.
Having MKG be exposed to Ariza who has won a ring wouldn't be a awful thing.
Because of that, I have less concern that EG showed his hand. We'll still have
our choice of anyone except AD and one other player.

I've been saying things like this as well, although using different reasoning. I don't know why everyone is seeing the presence of Ariza as meaning that MKG is no longer on the table. Ariza isn't a guy that you absolutely have to start. You can still take MKG and start him while using Ariza as a 6th man. Then use some combination of Okafor/Booker/Vesely/Singleton/Crawford to acquire a starting SG. Still lots of options IMO, so let's see how it plays out.

[Ruzious]

For a 'defensive player", Okafor's got some serious defensive problems. http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21 ... -breakdown

[TGW]

The Wizards aren't in a position to add "tough, veteran players." They NEED TALENT.

Well, Ted and Ernie seem to disagree. They evidently feel that their current group of young players, plus whoever they take at #3, gives them enough talent and now they are trying to fill in around that talent.

If this is truly the case, then god help us as fans. Right now, our core young players -- Wall, Seraphin, and Vesely -- aren't good. Wall is okay, but still has holes in his game. Seraphin needs to prove he can continue to grow, and Ves can't shoot worth a lick. It would have made a helluva lot more sense to actually wait until these guys actually prove their worth building around them.

[Ruzious]

That said, we shouldn't discount taking MKG either. It ain't like Ariza
is going to be around forever and MKG is so young that what Fish has said
about Beal and expectations has to apply to MKG as well if he becomes the pick.
Having MKG be exposed to Ariza who has won a ring wouldn't be a awful thing.
Because of that, I have less concern that EG showed his hand. We'll still have
our choice of anyone except AD and one other player.

I've been saying things like this as well, although using different reasoning. I don't know why everyone is seeing the presence of Ariza as meaning that MKG is no longer on the table. Ariza isn't a guy that you absolutely have to start. You can still take MKG and start him while using Ariza as a 6th man. Then use some combination of Okafor/Booker/Vesely/Singleton/Crawford to acquire a starting SG. Still lots of options IMO, so let's see how it plays out.

Rico, the biggest problem with the team last year was lack of shooters. It was an epically bad outside shooting team. With the roster you're suggesting, they could be even worse next season.

[tontoz]

Do you really believe Ariza has nothing to offer?

Sure he has something to offer just like Chris Singleton has something to offer. They can both play D but are awful offensively. We need Ariza about as much as we need another big who can't rebound.

[dobrojim]

How dare people have opinions and actually express them. That's not what an internet message board is for, people! Speaking of which, I sent Ted a T-mail expressing why I didn't like the trade, and he already responded - nothing earth-shattering or inspiring - saying he "obviously disagrees" and thanking me for "caring and sharing" - but it's nice to get an e-mail from the owner's e-mail account.

Don't worry about Spence--he just doesn't understand the trade yet.

this stuff is great comedy. I love it.

[fishercob]

Nate, talk to me here a little bit.

I know you hate the trade. But you've also been banging the drum about the Wizards record and metrics post-Vale trade and with Nene in the lineup. I get that these guys are overpaid for what they do, but don't you think a possible outcome of this is that the Wizards will be actually... pretty good?

The Sixers were 20th in offense this season, but they were 5th in SRS. The Knicks too were top 5 defensively and were decent even though they were a below average team. Inversely the Celtics were 25th in offense and almost went to the NBA finals.

My point is not that this is a move I'd have made. It's that if you were operating under the assumption that the Wiz were going to be pretty decent, it's reasonable to expect that they'll be a good team.

One's perspective matter so much on this. I'm noticing less venom from folks that I know pay for tickets and go to games, presumably because they believe that experience will be more enjoyable. Some people want their sports teams to provide entertainment and a distraction from real livfe problems. They just enjoy watching the games -- either on TV or in person -- maybe with their family or friends. It's all about the experience and entertainment. If you win as much or a little more than you lose, then it's a net positive. Others seem to take a "shareholder" position -- that unless a team is competing for or winning a championship, they are actively failing. I don't think one is necessarily "wrong," but the perspectives and goals as a fan are quite distinct.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

For a 'defensive player", Okafor's got some serious defensive problems. http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21 ... -breakdown

Okafor was brought in because of his rebounding ability, size, and experience, but most importantly his rebounding abiity. His size allows him to play effective defense even if he's not an imposing, defensive enforcer.

[80sballboy]

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/22 ... _Contracts

Sorry if this was a re-post.

[DCsOwn]

I've read several pages that we've ruined our chance at other BOYD deals. Is that really true? For this year, the answer is yes. But for next, we are in the exact same position that we are now as, Ariza and Oak will both be expiring deals the year after. So essentially, the trade makes us stand pat for this year, which from my understanding most on this board would have preferred us to do.

I guess I just don't understand how on one had a person can advocate for signing a player like Danny Green at 6mil per for 4-5 years but are freaking out at paying Ariza 15 mil over 2. It's 2 years, with a chance to only be one. Also, this whole the organization believes we're in win now mode. How is that remotely true? We had one of the youngest rosters in the entire league last year and not one of those players is gone yet. Wall, Vesely, Booker, Seraphin, Crawford, Singleton, all still on the roster, fighting for playing time, fighting to get better. That doe'st even include Beal, Barnes or MKG from this upcoming draft.

Unlike most, I don't view Ariza and Oak as terrible players. Oak will give you about 10pts, 9rebs, 1.5blks and a PER around 15. Not superstar numbers but not close to being a horrible player. Same goes for Ariza, who is a good defender, good finisher and has an all-around game with averages of 5rebs, 3asts and about 2stls per. We got them for nothing but the cap space that belonged to Rashard Lewis this year. And then they become expiring the year after.

Lastly, the only thing I can really understand a person being pissed about is not having full cap space next off-season. Ok. I get it. That's really the one negative truth of this trade, especially with most advocating we do nothing this off-season with the space anyway. Everything else is just basics, we had cap space to be able to facilitate a move to make us better. The Wizards front office decided that this was one of those deals.

No it's not a home run but i'd give it a single in the gap, and with good base running could turn into a sliding double.

I agree with this exactly. The only true downside to this deal is that it most likely takes us out of the running for a high lottery pick next year (in what some are calling an even weaker draft than this years iteration mind you), but even that has to be weighed against the fact that another horrendous year might be the worst thing for the development of the young players actually on the team presently. We need to win games more than occasionally so that these kids can develop good habits and to change this disastrous culture we have here.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Do you really believe Ariza has nothing to offer?

Sure he has something to offer just like Chris Singleton has something to offer. They can both play D but are awful offensively. We need Ariza about as much as we need another big who can't rebound.

What Ariza brings that I think you're underestimating is his experience, athleticism, and effort. I'm certain there's something behind your comment about Okafor being unable to rebound so if you will, explain.

[gp123]

What are you guys so upset for?

Your defense is going to be outstanding... you've now got options in trades and are putting competent, defensive minded vets to set examples and build the right culture. the second round pick was a bit much, but I think you guys improved, and have really set the table for further improvement in the short term if your FO is smart with draft/trades this season.

[80sballboy]

So we don't need Ariza, because he's similar to Singleton, so we don't need depth? I mean, we got these pieces for Rashard Lewis, what did you guys expect, an All-Star?

I still don't like the trade but I'm becoming lukewarm to it. I understand what EG had to do. Ted to him to trade Lewis or Blatche and he did it. Next year, he'll trade Okafor to gain more space.

[fishercob]

For a 'defensive player", Okafor's got some serious defensive problems. http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/21 ... -breakdown

He struggles with Dwight Howard and Steve Nash? He's got to be the only player in the league with that issue!

[nuposse04]

Ariza is actually completely different the Singleton. Ariza can finish at the rim, but can't make a jumper. Singleton can't finsh, but can make long range jumpers. If you could friggin combine them, you'd have a solid 3 man :/