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Offseason Plan

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#661 » by Jay81 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 4:48 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Hey remember when the Celtics were the 7th seed and we were the 8th seed last year? Fun times. We are such a loser franchise. :banghead: We cannot supermax Beal.


Wizards were 23-21 on MLK Day. 3 games behind the Sixers for 6th seed after routing them in DC.

The Celtics were 23-22 on MLK Day. In 10th place. Proceeded to lose 2 in a row to be 23-24 and then blew out the Wizards in DC by 30.

What weird season that got right after January. :lol:


i blame it all on covid,injuries and not having a real offseason
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#662 » by gesa2 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 5:37 pm

Jay81 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Tyrone Messby wrote:Hey remember when the Celtics were the 7th seed and we were the 8th seed last year? Fun times. We are such a loser franchise. :banghead: We cannot supermax Beal.


Wizards were 23-21 on MLK Day. 3 games behind the Sixers for 6th seed after routing them in DC.

The Celtics were 23-22 on MLK Day. In 10th place. Proceeded to lose 2 in a row to be 23-24 and then blew out the Wizards in DC by 30.

What weird season that got right after January. :lol:


i blame it all on covid,injuries and not having a real offseason


Wait a minute am I missing the green font here?
All of these factors affected everyone in the league. We do not have the talent base to be a good team, and haven’t for the last few years.
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#663 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 6:47 pm

gesa2 wrote:
Jay81 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Wizards were 23-21 on MLK Day. 3 games behind the Sixers for 6th seed after routing them in DC.

The Celtics were 23-22 on MLK Day. In 10th place. Proceeded to lose 2 in a row to be 23-24 and then blew out the Wizards in DC by 30.

What weird season that got right after January. :lol:


i blame it all on covid,injuries and not having a real offseason


Wait a minute am I missing the green font here?
All of these factors affected everyone in the league. We do not have the talent base to be a good team, and haven’t for the last few years.


He's using Tommy's go-to excuse that's used in every interview or media availability he's had since the season ended.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#664 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 11:57 pm

nate33 wrote:No. They don't.

Read on Twitter
?s=21&t=Dx1i8zh0u2MKxYKlwq3IsQ

Ughhhh

This obsession with small PGs is so dumb
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#665 » by NatP4 » Sun Jun 5, 2022 6:32 pm

Beal back to 2020-2021 form.

Porzingis continues to be the player from the last 2 seasons, major secondary playmaking skills.

Pickup NBA ready player at 10, whether it’s Daniels(confident Tommy loves him and takes him if he drops) or Eason(reportedly coming in for a workout today). Both guys are atleast average starters from the jump.

Use the full MLE on a guy like Otto, who has been one of the best role players in the NBA this year.

Trade Kuzma or Rui for a starting PG, like Tre Jones or Jalen Brunson, maybe even Jalen Suggs.

Jones Sato/Daniels
Beal Kispert
Avdija KCP
Eason/Rui Otto
Porzingis Gafford

I see about 45 wins and a nice young core developing. 2nd round exit in 6 or 7 games. Solid season.

What I expect to happen:

Trade down from 10 and Kuzma to 15 and Rozier. Probably draft Johnny Davis or TyTy Washington

Probably sign TJ warren with the MLE and act like he’s a 3rd star.

Rozier Davis
Beal Kispert
Warren KCP
Rui Deni
Porzingis Gafford

38 win season loss in the play in game.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#666 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 1:47 am

No one has mentioned getting Montrezl Harrell at the minimum for 1 year.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#667 » by 9 and 20 » Mon Jun 6, 2022 9:43 am

Harrell probably wouldn't even play here again for the max. Pretty sure he hated it in DC.
Can't say I do. Who else gonna shoot?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#668 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 6, 2022 2:14 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:No one has mentioned getting Montrezl Harrell at the minimum for 1 year.

Harrell will get much more than the vet minimum from somewhere. And if all he could get was the vet minimum, he'd surely go play on a contending team rather than a 35-win dumpster fire like DC. Not only that, but we actually have two viable centers on this team. There are other teams who need much more help at center.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#669 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jun 6, 2022 3:24 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:No one has mentioned getting Montrezl Harrell at the minimum for 1 year.

Harrell will get much more than the vet minimum from somewhere. And if all he could get was the vet minimum, he'd surely go play on a contending team rather than a 35-win dumpster fire like DC. Not only that, but we actually have two viable centers on this team. There are other teams who need much more help at center.


Don't want him and I don't think the team wants a guy who is more about getting stats so he can get a bigger deal. Bumped heads with a lot of people including KCP. I liked the attitude on the floor, because we definitely needed an alpha, but he's a five and we have two so hard pass.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#670 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:41 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:No one has mentioned getting Montrezl Harrell at the minimum for 1 year.

Harrell will get much more than the vet minimum from somewhere. And if all he could get was the vet minimum, he'd surely go play on a contending team rather than a 35-win dumpster fire like DC. Not only that, but we actually have two viable centers on this team. There are other teams who need much more help at center.


Hater.

Objectively, he had more player-of-the-games than Beal or Gafford. He was a crowd favorite. You have no idea how many wins the Wizards will have this season ALTHOUGH history says you’re right.

Harrell played sparse minutes in Charlotte, particularly after Ball went down (check my accuracy—did they play together prior to injury to Lonzo—I think they did). His time in DC showed an uptick in minutes and production. Fans loved him.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#671 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:46 pm

80sballboy wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:No one has mentioned getting Montrezl Harrell at the minimum for 1 year.

Harrell will get much more than the vet minimum from somewhere. And if all he could get was the vet minimum, he'd surely go play on a contending team rather than a 35-win dumpster fire like DC. Not only that, but we actually have two viable centers on this team. There are other teams who need much more help at center.


Don't want him and I don't think the team wants a guy who is more about getting stats so he can get a bigger deal. Bumped heads with a lot of people including KCP. I liked the attitude on the floor, because we definitely needed an alpha, but he's a five and we have two so hard pass.


Okay on all that.

I think he’s a four/five particularly with KP. I KNOW he’s dangerous in the dunker spot. KP can play three, four, or five. Trez bumped heads when HE WAS PRODUCING. Makes me think I like THAT GUY over some others.

He was efficient.

Teams when with effort and effective scorers . I see Harrell playing very effectively with KP. Who cares if he clashes with KCP?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#672 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:47 pm

9 and 20 wrote:Harrell probably wouldn't even play here again for the max. Pretty sure he hated it in DC.


At the time what was to like?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#673 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jun 6, 2022 4:55 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
nate33 wrote:Harrell will get much more than the vet minimum from somewhere. And if all he could get was the vet minimum, he'd surely go play on a contending team rather than a 35-win dumpster fire like DC. Not only that, but we actually have two viable centers on this team. There are other teams who need much more help at center.


Don't want him and I don't think the team wants a guy who is more about getting stats so he can get a bigger deal. Bumped heads with a lot of people including KCP. I liked the attitude on the floor, because we definitely needed an alpha, but he's a five and we have two so hard pass.


Okay on all that.

I think he’s a four/five particularly with KP. I KNOW he’s dangerous in the dunker spot. KP can play three, four, or five. Trez bumped heads when HE WAS PRODUCING. Makes me think I like THAT GUY over some others.

He was efficient.

Teams when with effort and effective scorers . I see Harrell playing very effectively with KP. Who cares if he clashes with KCP?


He's not going to play as the third-string center so why would he sign here, even if the Wiz (no chance) would show interest? There's a reason they traded him for almost nothing.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#674 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 5:22 pm

This would be a really good draft to get a top-five pick in depending on what you have to give up.

Keegan Murray and possibly Jalen Duren can change your franchise
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#675 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 6, 2022 6:25 pm

An offseason plan should begin with the idea of change. You couldn't ask for a better poster child for that fact than the Washington Wizards.

That's "change," not "we need to get better." Everyone needs to get better. The Wizards need to change, & change radically.

Beal has downgraded -- hoping he will "return to form" is not part of a plan. We all hope all good things happen, but that doesn't help them happen. It would be a difficult decision & move to trade him; if we do trade him, that will be a strong indicator that our FO is actually doing some planning.

Porzingis has helped no NBA team succeed at anything whatever in his 7-year career. It was still a great trade that acquired him -- b/c of what we got rid of. To view his acquisition in the light of a plan to improve, however, is inaccurate.

KCP is on the downward slope of his career. He has more value now than he'll have in a year. The only sensible conclusion is: get something for him now, while you can.

Kuzma is not a good NBA player. He's not awful, but he's not good -- really, he's not even quite average. Get the most for him that you can while you can. It's not even critical how much that is -- though of course the more you get the better. If Kuz is still on the team on opening day, that will be a strong indication that in fact there is no plan. Of any kind. Just muddle along.

Rui has done nothing in his 3 year career to establish himself as a valuable player overall, though he has improved radically in one skill -- perhaps that portends radical improvements this year in other skills. If so, great. But, of course, the odds are somewhat long -- as they would be on any player entering his 4th year in the league. The plan should be to see whether he improves, & unless he does -- a lot -- move him for whatever forward-looking asset(s) you can get. If he doesn't get substantially better, but all the same we don't cut his cable, that will be another indicator that there is no plan.

Deni, Gafford & Kispert have all shown enough that they should be penciled in to any plan.

If we can sign Gill cheaply for a couple-three years, that would be sensible. Might be reasonable to sign Bryant cheaply as well, with a team option for a 2d year, just to see whether he can return to form.

Ish is at the end of his career. He can't possibly be part of any plan. Carey & Todd have shown nothing or less than nothing. Put them on the floor for a while early in the season. If they don't perform, cut them -- eat their guaranteed salaries.

Sign the best FA we can afford at no matter what position. We don't need to improve "fit," we need talent; the younger that FA is the more he's worth to us (i.e. Shane Larkin, who's about to turn 30, is worth nothing to us).
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#676 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jun 6, 2022 10:55 pm

An off-season plan that begins with change…

That should involve introspection and reflection upon relative strengths and weaknesses comparative to the rest of the league. Constraints might be ownership, management, and to the limits of the first-year head coach and staff. Variables include all trade-able asserts.

Change weak areas to strengths without creating a breach elsewhere.

Wing defender
Low post beastly rebounder/low block scorer
Taller guards
Energy player with elite length on wings
Superstar DUH

I’m thinking a dynamo guard like Kennedy Chandler could be real good.

Trevion Williams as a Draymond Green makes sense.

I believe teams are definitely sleeping on EJ Liddell.

Christian Braun is as white as Corey Kispert, and that shouldn’t matter .
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#677 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 12:21 am

payitforward wrote:An offseason plan should begin with the idea of change. You couldn't ask for a better poster child for that fact than the Washington Wizards.

That's "change," not "we need to get better." Everyone needs to get better. The Wizards need to change, & change radically.

Beal has downgraded -- hoping he will "return to form" is not part of a plan. We all hope all good things happen, but that doesn't help them happen. It would be a difficult decision & move to trade him; if we do trade him, that will be a strong indicator that our FO is actually doing some planning.

Porzingis has helped no NBA team succeed at anything whatever in his 7-year career. It was still a great trade that acquired him -- b/c of what we got rid of. To view his acquisition in the light of a plan to improve, however, is inaccurate.

KCP is on the downward slope of his career. He has more value now than he'll have in a year. The only sensible conclusion is: get something for him now, while you can.

Kuzma is not a good NBA player. He's not awful, but he's not good -- really, he's not even quite average. Get the most for him that you can while you can. It's not even critical how much that is -- though of course the more you get the better. If Kuz is still on the team on opening day, that will be a strong indication that in fact there is no plan. Of any kind. Just muddle along.

Rui has done nothing in his 3 year career to establish himself as a valuable player overall, though he has improved radically in one skill -- perhaps that portends radical improvements this year in other skills. If so, great. But, of course, the odds are somewhat long -- as they would be on any player entering his 4th year in the league. The plan should be to see whether he improves, & unless he does -- a lot -- move him for whatever forward-looking asset(s) you can get. If he doesn't get substantially better, but all the same we don't cut his cable, that will be another indicator that there is no plan.

Deni, Gafford & Kispert have all shown enough that they should be penciled in to any plan.

If we can sign Gill cheaply for a couple-three years, that would be sensible. Might be reasonable to sign Bryant cheaply as well, with a team option for a 2d year, just to see whether he can return to form.

Ish is at the end of his career. He can't possibly be part of any plan. Carey & Todd have shown nothing or less than nothing. Put them on the floor for a while early in the season. If they don't perform, cut them -- eat their guaranteed salaries.

Sign the best FA we can afford at no matter what position. We don't need to improve "fit," we need talent; the younger that FA is the more he's worth to us (i.e. Shane Larkin, who's about to turn 30, is worth nothing to us).

My only disagreement here involves Porzingis.

Porzingis played much better in DC than he did in Dallas or New York. The problem is, he only did it for 19 games so I seriously doubt it has boosted his trade value much. Trading him now won't bring back value. But since he did play better for 19 games, there's a pretty good chance that the improvement is due to scheme and coaching here - which suggests that it might be sustainable going forward. The clear choice then is to keep him here and hope that he can sustain that good play for at least another half-season. At that point, he may well have boosted his trade value quite a bit. Then and only then should we consider trading him.

In other words, buy low and sell high. We did indeed buy low on Porzingis. And signs suggest his trajectory is upward. Let's give him a chance to boost his value before selling. And maybe, just maybe, he even proves that he is a keeper. Centers sometimes take a real long time to really figure out how to impact winning - particularly the really tall but not-so-mobile guys. I'm thinking of guys like Marc Gasol, Jonas Valanciunas and Brook Lopez. All 3 guys didn't really help their teams win until age 27.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#678 » by payitforward » Tue Jun 7, 2022 1:35 am

100%, nate! I didn't mean to suggest trading KP forthwith! Only that we should understand that acquiring Porzingis was good because it rid us of Bertans's horrible contract & moved a guy that just wasn't working out.

Acquiring Porzingis was not some move in a plan. It was not even some kind of lucky break where we got something terrific while giving up nothing to speak of!

What can Dallas's very smart FO have thought of KP, what can their assessment have been, if they agreed to give a R2 pick in order to move him -- tTo move him for assets which had zero value for us. Yet they had to add a pick to get the trade to happen.

Thinking that we've acquired some kind of core piece to success is just dreaming not planning.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#679 » by NatP4 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 2:31 am

I’m happy with the Porzingis trade. He might only play 2/3rds of the season, but we have him for his prime years of 27&28. He’s become a significantly better player over the last couple of years. 16th in the entire NBA in RPM, just below Lebron and KD last year. Raptor had him ranked 88th in the league. Posted positive on/off numbers in the short stint with the wizards.

The numbers with the wizards were video game stuff. 28 points 11 rebounds 3.8 assists 1 steal 2 blocks and 2 turnovers on 60.6% TS.

My guess is the wizards have two and a half all star caliber players in Beal, Porzingis, and Deni on the floor next year.

Really think they should make a strong effort to trade up with Portland for #7. Portland probably has interest in both KCP and Kuzma. Dyson Daniels is a perfect fit for the offense they will run in 2022-2023.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#680 » by payitforward » Tue Jun 7, 2022 2:58 am

Of course you're happy with the Porzingis trade! We're all happy with the Porzingis trade! Why would we not be happy with the Porzingis trade?

We got rid of an awful contract. We moved a guy who just was not working out. We even got a R2 pick as part of the deal -- & god knows we have few enough of those!

So, absolutely! The Porzingis trade was totally terrific.

As to your assessment of his play, quoting numbers whose meaning you don't know doesn't add much. Nor were his numbers with us "video game stuff." They were somewhat -- not a huge amount -- above average for an NBA Center.

edit: for example, you make much of his 60.6% TS% for us. The average TS% of an NBA Center last year was 60.5%. He also got .4 more rebounds than average per 40 minutes as a Wizard.

Not complaining -- just introducing a little reality check.

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