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Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#661 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 5, 2025 6:10 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:There's no need to rush in trading those guys, I agree.

The Wizards need to have a spirited, competitive training camp where those veterans legitimately compete for minutes. Play the best players. Do not tank. Make mid-season trades involving both players.

Middleton is worth the starting SG position.
Smart should find minutes if he's healthy.

Both players didn't get worse. They've been injured two seasons each.

Next season, all the young guys should have to earn their minutes. I think this year's picks are going to be better than Bub or Kyshawn if the Wizards choose wisely.

Play the old guys and Poole at the risk of blowing the tank. There's about 4 monsters in the next draft. No matter who this Wizards lineup is, this will still be a lottery team.

This is the best way to get maximum value in a Pople, Middleton, or Smart trade.


I think you have to be careful about this. I agree that the current lottery system seriously reduces the benefits of tanking. So in the abstract, I don't really care too much whether the Wizards finish with the worst record or the fifth-worst record. There is little difference in the lotto odds either way. You can make a case that the cost of instilling a loser mindset aren't worth the benefit of incrementally higher odds of a top 4 pick.

But that's only with respect to how it affects the lottery odds. There is another dynamic at play: the pick we owe New York. On that subject, I wholeheartedly endorse tanking. It's one thing to fall from the 5th pick to the 6th pick like what happened this year when we beat Utah. It's another thing entirely to fall from picking in the top 8 in the lottery to not picking at all just because we were foolish enough to win 28 games instead of 24.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#662 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 5, 2025 6:26 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:nate nails it (except we don't need to "buy out" Holmes -- just let our option on him lapse).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Holmes, come to think of it. He can still play, as he showed late last season, so maybe he'll actually have some marginal trade value.

We would have to pay him the $250K in guaranteed salary. That's the buy-out I was referring to.

And yes, he may be brought back next year at a lower salary if we have roster room and a need for center depth. But we sure as hell won't be paying him $13.2M next year. We would buy out his final $250K salary and then negotiate a new one-year deal for something like $3M or so.

Ah, got it....
& you are definitely correct that Richaun shouldn't start spending next year's $13m !! :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#663 » by dckingsfan » Thu Jun 5, 2025 7:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:There's no need to rush in trading those guys, I agree.

The Wizards need to have a spirited, competitive training camp where those veterans legitimately compete for minutes. Play the best players. Do not tank. Make mid-season trades involving both players.

Middleton is worth the starting SG position.
Smart should find minutes if he's healthy.

Both players didn't get worse. They've been injured two seasons each.

Next season, all the young guys should have to earn their minutes. I think this year's picks are going to be better than Bub or Kyshawn if the Wizards choose wisely.

Play the old guys and Poole at the risk of blowing the tank. There's about 4 monsters in the next draft. No matter who this Wizards lineup is, this will still be a lottery team.

This is the best way to get maximum value in a Pople, Middleton, or Smart trade.

I think you have to be careful about this. I agree that the current lottery system seriously reduce the benefits of tanking. So in the abstract, I don't really care too much whether the Wizards finish with the worst record or the fifth-worst record. There is little difference in the lotto odds either way. You can make a case that the cost of instilling a loser mindset aren't worth the benefit of incrementally higher odds of a top 4 pick.

But that's only with respect to how it affects the lottery odds. There is another dynamic at play: the pick we owe New York. On that subject, I wholeheartedly endorse tanking. It's one thing to fall from the 5th pick to the 6th pick like what happened this year when we beat Utah. It's another thing entirely to fall from picking in the top 8 in the lottery to not picking at all just because we were foolish enough to win 28 games instead of 24.

Yeah, we are going to tank. Well, correction - we are going to play our youngsters and FRP big minutes and that will lead to tanking.

There is zero chance we won't do this with the '26 draft coming up. Okay, less than zero.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#664 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Fri Jun 6, 2025 2:06 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:AJ Johnson + 2026 1st round pick (late 1st from Philly) to Rockets for Cam Whitmore.

Why for Houston: Whitmore doesn’t fit in rotation , reset asset with newer upside player + draft pick.

Why for Washington: in rebuild have ability to provide Whitmore pt still only 20 turning 21 fits timeline, better roster fit especially if draft a G tre Johnson or Fears.

Whitmore is from DC, AJ has strong connection to Jalen Green.



(Added context). I’m envisioning an overall roster:

Draft Fears 6, Asa Newell/Queen/Sorber 18

Youth foundation:

PG- Fears. SG- Bilal. SF- Whitmore. PF/C- Asa/Queen/Sorber. C/PF- Sarr

Bub- 3rd G. Champagne- ultimate glue guy. Kyshawn- Swiss Army knife 6th man

Colby Jones - G/wing depth. Tristan- C depth


Add in the Vets-

Smart, Poole, Kispert, Middleton, Bey




DCZards wrote:
closg00 wrote:In an ironic twist, teams are interested in trading for a player we passed-up to draft Bilal, but not Bilal:
Read on Twitter

That’s because they figure they can get Whitmore cheap since he’s not getting any playing time.




Whitmore was the 20th pick in 2023, AJ Johnson the 23rd pick in 2024, plus the Wizards late 1st (from Philly) in 2026.... A win-win for both teams? Any takers??
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#665 » by 9 and 20 » Fri Jun 6, 2025 2:44 am

I'd happily take Cam here. Him and Bilal would be dunking everything. AJ Johnson is good friends with Jalen Green. Assuming they don't trade Green, maybe there could be something there. Cam is also a local guy.

Rockets also interested in Kispert, Middleton, or Smart? They could take one of them if they want.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#666 » by TheBlackCzar » Fri Jun 6, 2025 7:25 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:AJ Johnson + 2026 1st round pick (late 1st from Philly) to Rockets for Cam Whitmore.

Why for Houston: Whitmore doesn’t fit in rotation , reset asset with newer upside player + draft pick.

Why for Washington: in rebuild have ability to provide Whitmore pt still only 20 turning 21 fits timeline, better roster fit especially if draft a G tre Johnson or Fears.

Whitmore is from DC, AJ has strong connection to Jalen Green.



(Added context). I’m envisioning an overall roster:

Draft Fears 6, Asa Newell/Queen/Sorber 18

Youth foundation:

PG- Fears. SG- Bilal. SF- Whitmore. PF/C- Asa/Queen/Sorber. C/PF- Sarr

Bub- 3rd G. Champagne- ultimate glue guy. Kyshawn- Swiss Army knife 6th man

Colby Jones - G/wing depth. Tristan- C depth


Add in the Vets-

Smart, Poole, Kispert, Middleton, Bey




DCZards wrote:
closg00 wrote:In an ironic twist, teams are interested in trading for a player we passed-up to draft Bilal, but not Bilal:
Read on Twitter

That’s because they figure they can get Whitmore cheap since he’s not getting any playing time.




Whitmore was the 20th pick in 2023, AJ Johnson the 23rd pick in 2024, plus the Wizards late 1st (from Philly) in 2026.... A win-win for both teams? Any takers??




I'd make this trade but not giving up all that capital.... I'd give them one 1st and maybe a 2nd and be done with it... No need to include any players....

2026 1st round pick (late 1st from Philly) to Rockets for Cam Whitmore.

Why for Houston: Whitmore doesn’t fit in rotation , reset asset with newer upside player + draft pick.

Why for Washington: in rebuild have ability to provide Whitmore pt still only 20 turning 21 fits timeline, we don't have to worry about roster fit when most of the roster is not even 21 yet....

Whitmore is from DC so this makes sense....


(Added context). I’m envisioning an overall roster:

Draft Fears 6, Asa Newell/Queen/Sorber 18

Youth foundation:

PG- Fears. SG- Bilal. SF- Whitmore. PF/C- Asa/Queen/Sorber. C/PF- Sarr

Bub- 3rd G. AJ - Combo G Champagne- ultimate glue guy. Kyshawn- Swiss Army knife 6th man

Colby Jones - G/wing depth. Tristan- C depth


Add in the Vets-

Smart, Poole, Kispert, Middleton, Bey
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#667 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 6, 2025 12:40 pm

I don't think Houston is going to trade Whitmore until the first make their Big Move, whatever that may be. They are in position to go after Giannis, or Durant, or maybe Booker. They may need Whitmore to facilitate that trade, or they may need Whitmore in their rotation after sacrificing a lot of other forwards in that trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#668 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 6, 2025 1:12 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:AJ Johnson + 2026 1st round pick (late 1st from Philly) to Rockets for Cam Whitmore.

What would make you think that Cam Whitmore is worth this price? Nothing I can see....
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#669 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jun 6, 2025 1:17 pm

payitforward wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:AJ Johnson + 2026 1st round pick (late 1st from Philly) to Rockets for Cam Whitmore.

What would make you think that Cam Whitmore is worth this price? Nothing I can see....


Thank you. Whitmore, Mathurin, Jalen Green, Miles Bridges, etc.... STAY AWAY. Their physical tools and youth have tricked people into thinking they are actually good players. They arent. Slashing wings with inconsistent shooting, poor defense, low IQ, poor feel/vision, etc.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#670 » by gesa2 » Fri Jun 6, 2025 1:40 pm

Our current leadership seems to value smart players that won’t hurt team defense. Cam has talent but plays with blinders on a lot. Pass unless he comes cheap
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#671 » by TGW » Fri Jun 6, 2025 1:53 pm

gesa2 wrote:Our current leadership seems to value smart players that won’t hurt team defense. Cam has talent but plays with blinders on a lot. Pass unless he comes cheap


Like Jordan Poole, right?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#672 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jun 6, 2025 3:32 pm

TGW wrote:
gesa2 wrote:Our current leadership seems to value smart players that won’t hurt team defense. Cam has talent but plays with blinders on a lot. Pass unless he comes cheap


Like Jordan Poole, right?


I dont think they "Value" Poole in that way. They didnt draft him, sign him as a FA, or trade positive assets for him.
If we trade Smart/Middleton for a bad contract + asset, I dont think Dawkins and Co will worry too much about the "Bad Contracts" fit in terms of culture.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#673 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 6, 2025 3:46 pm

TGW wrote:
gesa2 wrote:Our current leadership seems to value smart players that won’t hurt team defense. Cam has talent but plays with blinders on a lot. Pass unless he comes cheap


Like Jordan Poole, right?

Generally speaking, teams want all their players to be able to play good defense, but you can overlook poor defense from a guy who is carrying your offense. Poole was carrying our offense. He posted 25 points per 36 minutes on a TS% of .591 for a team whose remaining teammates posted a TS% of .538.

Think about that for a minute. That's actually pretty damn good offensive production! He carried a USG% of 29% and posted a shooting efficiency 5.3 percentage points higher than the rest of the team!

If Whitmore could score like that, then maybe we could overlook his bad D too. But I seriously doubt he can score like that.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#674 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 6, 2025 4:02 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:There's no need to rush in trading those guys, I agree.

The Wizards need to have a spirited, competitive training camp where those veterans legitimately compete for minutes. Play the best players. Do not tank. Make mid-season trades involving both players.

Middleton is worth the starting SG position.
Smart should find minutes if he's healthy.

Both players didn't get worse. They've been injured two seasons each.

Next season, all the young guys should have to earn their minutes. I think this year's picks are going to be better than Bub or Kyshawn if the Wizards choose wisely.

Play the old guys and Poole at the risk of blowing the tank. There's about 4 monsters in the next draft. No matter who this Wizards lineup is, this will still be a lottery team.

This is the best way to get maximum value in a Pople, Middleton, or Smart trade.

I think you have to be careful about this. I agree that the current lottery system seriously reduce the benefits of tanking. So in the abstract, I don't really care too much whether the Wizards finish with the worst record or the fifth-worst record. There is little difference in the lotto odds either way. You can make a case that the cost of instilling a loser mindset aren't worth the benefit of incrementally higher odds of a top 4 pick.

But that's only with respect to how it affects the lottery odds. There is another dynamic at play: the pick we owe New York. On that subject, I wholeheartedly endorse tanking. It's one thing to fall from the 5th pick to the 6th pick like what happened this year when we beat Utah. It's another thing entirely to fall from picking in the top 8 in the lottery to not picking at all just because we were foolish enough to win 28 games instead of 24.

Yeah, we are going to tank. Well, correction - we are going to play our youngsters and FRP big minutes and that will lead to tanking.

There is zero chance we won't do this with the '26 draft coming up. Okay, less than zero.


This is the last year of trying to tank i believe. It was always a 3-year plan with eyes on the '26 draft. The '27 draft class looks unremarkable so far anyways so I see little reason to try to undecut the win total any further. The '26-'27 season is when we should expect our young guys to be good enough to make at least a play-in run with a couple of mature vets sprinkled in.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#675 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jun 6, 2025 4:14 pm

Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:I think you have to be careful about this. I agree that the current lottery system seriously reduce the benefits of tanking. So in the abstract, I don't really care too much whether the Wizards finish with the worst record or the fifth-worst record. There is little difference in the lotto odds either way. You can make a case that the cost of instilling a loser mindset aren't worth the benefit of incrementally higher odds of a top 4 pick.

But that's only with respect to how it affects the lottery odds. There is another dynamic at play: the pick we owe New York. On that subject, I wholeheartedly endorse tanking. It's one thing to fall from the 5th pick to the 6th pick like what happened this year when we beat Utah. It's another thing entirely to fall from picking in the top 8 in the lottery to not picking at all just because we were foolish enough to win 28 games instead of 24.

Yeah, we are going to tank. Well, correction - we are going to play our youngsters and FRP big minutes and that will lead to tanking.

There is zero chance we won't do this with the '26 draft coming up. Okay, less than zero.


This is the last year of trying to tank i believe. It was always a 3-year plan with eyes on the '26 draft. The '27 draft class looks unremarkable so far anyways so I see little reason to try to undecut the win total any further. The '26-'27 season is when we should expect our young guys to be good enough to make at least a play-in run with a couple of mature vets sprinkled in.

It will be interesting... that is lining up with a lineup of

Jordan Poole
Corey Kispert
Alex Sarr
Bilal Coulibaly
Saddiq Bey
Bub Carrington
AJ Johnson
Kyshawn George
Justin Champagnie
Colby Jones
25 FRP
25 FRP
26 FRP

It could happen that we are competitive. What is also interesting looking at the list is that there will be a lot of overlap. Tying this back to the thread, I could see a C and PG being drafted and then BPA next year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#676 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 6, 2025 4:27 pm

dckingsfan wrote:It will be interesting... that is lining up with a lineup of

Jordan Poole
Corey Kispert
Alex Sarr
Bilal Coulibaly
Saddiq Bey
Bub Carrington
AJ Johnson
Kyshawn George
Justin Champagnie
Colby Jones
25 FRP
25 FRP
26 FRP


Also a late 2026 FRP from the least of OKC/HOU/LAC.

But I think by 26-27 we will have swapped out Poole, Kispert/Bey, and I’m not sure that Colby Jones will show enough to stick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#677 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jun 6, 2025 4:41 pm

doclinkin wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:It will be interesting... that is lining up with a lineup of

Jordan Poole
Corey Kispert
Alex Sarr
Bilal Coulibaly
Saddiq Bey
Bub Carrington
AJ Johnson
Kyshawn George
Justin Champagnie
Colby Jones
25 FRP
25 FRP
26 FRP
26 FRP

Also a late 2026 FRP from the least of OKC/HOU/LAC.

But I think by 26-27 we will have swapped out Poole, Kispert/Bey, and I’m not sure that Colby Jones will show enough to stick.

I think we will find that we don't have an NBA ready starting PG by that time as well unless this draft yields one.

I don't think that Poole or Kispert will bring a return, so could easily see them still on the roster. :dontknow:
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#678 » by AFM » Fri Jun 6, 2025 4:57 pm

Put queen on that roster and we are a top 4 seed.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#679 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 6, 2025 6:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:... I’m not sure that Colby Jones will show enough to stick.

?... Jones was solid for us -- only 500 minutes, admittedly, but so far so good all the same.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLVII 

Post#680 » by TGW » Fri Jun 6, 2025 7:55 pm

AFM wrote:Put queen on that roster and we are a top 4 seed.


you forgot...."in the midwest bracket of March Madness."
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