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2015 Draft Thread - Part 1

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Re: Draft Thread 2015: All in for Jahlil Okafor! or somebody... 

Post#681 » by gambitx777 » Thu May 21, 2015 5:38 am

pcbothwel wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Not seeing much in the way of trade down options...

Would anyone consider doing a swap with Boston?

19 & 49 for 28, 33, 45 ?



I kind of disagree:
LAL: Nene(1/13M) and 19 for Jordan Hill (1/9M), 27, and 34

BOS: I like yours, but how about this fun twist:
- Nene, 19, and Martell for Wallace, 28 and Isiah Thomas

Twolves: 19, TPE (or Blair) for Dieng, 34, and 35

I am 100% ok with that boston trade. That might give us the best 4 man back court in the league. Wood Might still be there at 28, and we still have Hump! McCullough, Christmas, Jarell Martin, Micky, are all nice back up options if wood goes early.
I would be ok with the LA trade. Wood might still be there and all the players that I listed should be there too. and Hill is a nice player on the cheap. I don't think I'll do that T wolves trade....
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Re: Draft Thread 2015: All in for Jahlil Okafor! or somebody... 

Post#682 » by nate33 » Thu May 21, 2015 2:00 pm

Bobby Portis' measurements are interesting. He is an extraordinarily good leaper for a guy his size. Here are all the 1st round picks in the DX database from 2003 to 2013 who have a standing reach above 8'-11" and a vertical leap 30" or higher:

Code: Select all

Name            Weight WingSpan   Reach  Body Fat NoStepV  Agility  Sprint
Andre Drummond    279    7'6.25"  9'1.5"   7.5      31.5     10.83    3.39   
Festus Ezeli      264    7'5.75"  9'0"     5.5      34       12.35    3.29   
Nene Hilario      253    7' 4.5"  9'1"     NA       30       10.73    3.19   
Meyers Leonard    250    7'3"     9'0"     5.7      30       11.34    3.41   
Bobby Portis      240    7'2"     9'0.5"   8.0      31.5     11.7     3.56
Amare Stoudemire  233    7' 1.75" 9' 0.5"  NA       32       11.19    3.25   
Jordan Hill       232    7'1.5"   9'0"     6        31       12.23    3.3   
Ed Davis          227    7'0"     9'0"     10       31       11.7     3.21   
Tristan Thompson  227    7'1.25"  9'0.5"   6.2      30       10.92    3.26   
Chris Bosh        225    7'3.5"   9'1"     8        30.5     11.8     3.3   
Kenneth Faried    225    7'0"     9'0"     6.3      30.5     11.35    3.26   
Cedric Simmons    223    7'4.25"  9'0.5"   5.6      30.5     11.05    3.31   
Anthony Davis     222    7'5.5"   9'0"     7.9      NA       NA       NA     
Chris Wilcox      218    7' 1"    8' 11.5" NA       31       11.43    3.16   
Tyrus Thomas      217    7'3"     9'0"     5.6      34       11.36    3.2   
Hakim Warrick     215    7'2"     9'0"     NA       33       NA       3.22   
Brandan Wright    200    7'3.75"  9'0.5"   5.8      30.5     11.76    3.31   

I sorted the list by weight on purpose. Portis manages to have that leaping ability despite being heavier than almost everyone on the list. And everyone weighing 225 or over went on to have a long, successful career in the NBA with the exception of Ezeli and Leonard. (And neither of those guys were any good in college. Portis was.)

Portis is a bit slower than most of the guys on the list, but he also has a higher body fat content. He could probably shed 10 pounds or so and become a bit quicker and springier, while still having good strength and girth for his position.
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Re: Draft Thread 2015: All in for Jahlil Okafor! or somebody... 

Post#683 » by Ruzious » Thu May 21, 2015 2:42 pm

nate33 wrote:Bobby Portis' measurements are interesting. He is an extraordinarily good leaper for a guy his size. Here are all the 1st round picks in the DX database from 2003 to 2013 who have a standing reach above 8'-11" and a vertical leap 30" or higher:

Code: Select all

Name            Weight WingSpan   Reach  Body Fat NoStepV  Agility  Sprint
Andre Drummond    279    7'6.25"  9'1.5"   7.5      31.5     10.83    3.39   
Festus Ezeli      264    7'5.75"  9'0"     5.5      34       12.35    3.29   
Nene Hilario      253    7' 4.5"  9'1"     NA       30       10.73    3.19   
Meyers Leonard    250    7'3"     9'0"     5.7      30       11.34    3.41   
Bobby Portis      240    7'2"     9'0.5"   8.0      31.5     11.7     3.56
Amare Stoudemire  233    7' 1.75" 9' 0.5"  NA       32       11.19    3.25   
Jordan Hill       232    7'1.5"   9'0"     6        31       12.23    3.3   
Ed Davis          227    7'0"     9'0"     10       31       11.7     3.21   
Tristan Thompson  227    7'1.25"  9'0.5"   6.2      30       10.92    3.26   
Chris Bosh        225    7'3.5"   9'1"     8        30.5     11.8     3.3   
Kenneth Faried    225    7'0"     9'0"     6.3      30.5     11.35    3.26   
Cedric Simmons    223    7'4.25"  9'0.5"   5.6      30.5     11.05    3.31   
Anthony Davis     222    7'5.5"   9'0"     7.9      NA       NA       NA     
Chris Wilcox      218    7' 1"    8' 11.5" NA       31       11.43    3.16   
Tyrus Thomas      217    7'3"     9'0"     5.6      34       11.36    3.2   
Hakim Warrick     215    7'2"     9'0"     NA       33       NA       3.22   
Brandan Wright    200    7'3.75"  9'0.5"   5.8      30.5     11.76    3.31   

I sorted the list by weight on purpose. Portis manages to have that leaping ability despite being heavier than almost everyone on the list. And everyone weighing 225 or over went on to have a long, successful career in the NBA with the exception of Ezeli and Leonard. (And neither of those guys were any good in college. Portis was.)

Portis is a bit slower than most of the guys on the list, but he also has a higher body fat content. He could probably shed 10 pounds or so and become a bit quicker and springier, while still having good strength and girth for his position.

Looking at that list, I remember thinking Cedric Simmons was going to be a great defender in the NBA. :oops:

I'm surprised by Portis' leaping ability and agree - he definitely needs to get in better shape. But that might not necessarily mean losing weight. He looks a bit doughy - like he hasn't been much of a weight lifter. If that's the case, he can lose fat and maintain or gain weight. He might even play some small ball center.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#684 » by nate33 » Thu May 21, 2015 2:48 pm

I'm beginning to think the Wizards should be prepared to sacrifice a future 1st to trade up for Portis. If Portis goes, say, 14th, the Wizards should trade the #19 and next year's 1st to move up. Portis really looks like a can't miss prospect. I'm not saying he is destined for stardom, but I think his floor is a Tristan Thompson/Jordan Hill/Ed Davis type of career.

I'm thinking Portis will eventually be able to steal some minutes at center. That could solve two problems: the need for a high quality backup center behind Gortat, and the need to find enough minutes for Durant and Portis at PF. Basically, with a 6-man rotation of Wall, Beal, Porter, Durant, Portis and Gortat, it doesn't matter which 5 are on the floor.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#685 » by fishercob » Thu May 21, 2015 2:52 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm beginning to think the Wizards should be prepared to sacrifice a future 1st to trade up for Portis. If Portis goes, say, 14th, the Wizards should trade the #19 and next year's 1st to move up.

I'm thinking Portis will eventually be able to steal some minutes at center. That could solve two problems: the need for a high quality backup center behind Gortat, and the need to find enough minutes for Durant and Portis at PF. Basically, with a 6-man rotation of Wall, Beal, Porter, Durant, Portis and Gortat, it doesn't matter which 5 are on the floor.



Never have seen the guy play, I am skeptical of this type of asset management. If he's that good, why isn't he projected in the lottery? We need our picks, man!
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#686 » by nuposse04 » Thu May 21, 2015 3:01 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm beginning to think the Wizards should be prepared to sacrifice a future 1st to trade up for Portis. If Portis goes, say, 14th, the Wizards should trade the #19 and next year's 1st to move up.

I'm thinking Portis will eventually be able to steal some minutes at center. That could solve two problems: the need for a high quality backup center behind Gortat, and the need to find enough minutes for Durant and Portis at PF. Basically, with a 6-man rotation of Wall, Beal, Porter, Durant, Portis and Gortat, it doesn't matter which 5 are on the floor.


I'm in general agreement with this. I'd be ok with giving up a '16 1st with lotto protection for Portis. I'm fairly high on him and thing he can be a good offensive player, especially with John. Now, while I may be a bit homerish on him time to time, and am glad he measured well physically as well as with his no step vertical... I think from most the game footage I've seen on him, he isn't as athletic as his numbers tell.

I think guys can inflate their numbers in combine settings. Not every situation in basketball will allow you a clear moment to gather yourself and explode up with everything you got. I felt the same way about Cody Zeller 2 seasons ago who didn't exactly go all blake griffin like on the league. Not saying there will be AS big a disparity between his combine numbers and what has manifested on the hardwood, but I think you gotta take the "eye" test into account too. That being said I'd still easily trade up for em.

I also think the suns may be more willing to trade back with us then OKC if we gave em an extra pick.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#687 » by nate33 » Thu May 21, 2015 3:24 pm

What are the board's thoughts on Tres Lyles? He seems to have slipped through the cracks, playing behind Kentucky's lotto pick bigs. He has impressive measurements and the high school pedigree to get drafted by Kentucky.

It's hard to glean much from his numbers because he spent a lot of time playing out-of-position at SF, or playing garbage time. His 3pt% is woefully low, but his FT% of 73% is exceptionally good for a 19-year-old big man, which suggests he will eventually become a solid shooter.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#688 » by Ruzious » Thu May 21, 2015 3:28 pm

I probably said this before - I wouldn't trade a future pick to move up for Portis, but I would do it for either Kaminsky or Turner. I have Turner rated the 5th best prospect in the draft, and most mocks have him going around 12th. But Kaminsky is close to the perfect fit for the Wiz, imo. He's better than Portis because he can create offense for himself and for teammates - in addition to what Portis can do. If you want to play Spurs like offense, he's the guy. Rich man's Diaw.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#689 » by nate33 » Thu May 21, 2015 3:57 pm

The more I research Portis, the more I like. He has some numbers that suggest a high bball IQ: low turnovers, low fouls, high steals, good FT% and decent assists for a big. Also, he ranks 3rd in college basketball in offensive rebounding which is a good indicator of in-game athleticism and motor.

Video of him suggests he's not the most fluid athlete in the world, but he also looks a bit doughy and unbalanced. I really think a year or two of elite professional training on his core strength and diet would do wonders for his athleticism. He's no where near his peak potential, physically.

Frankly, I'm surprised the mocks have him going in the mid teens. He seems like a late lotto type of talent to me.

Bear in mind I watch very little college basketball. Take my draft opinions with a healthy dose of salt.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#690 » by AFM » Thu May 21, 2015 4:11 pm

Has anyone brought up that we can't have both a Porter and a Portis on the team? Would confuse the hell outta wittman
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#691 » by TGW » Thu May 21, 2015 4:18 pm

I'll be a sheep as well and get on the Portis bandwagon. He looks like a really nice prospect. Good measurements too.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#692 » by Ruzious » Thu May 21, 2015 4:45 pm

AFM wrote:Has anyone brought up that we can't have both a Porter and a Portis on the team? Would confuse the hell outta wittman

Hands brought that up years ago - just after he brought up his theory about the earth revolving around the sun - which in turn revolves around Jan Vesely.

Remember when UConn had Donny Marshall and Donyell Marshall?
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#693 » by Severn Hoos » Thu May 21, 2015 4:47 pm

nate33 wrote:The more I research Portis, the more I like. He has some numbers that suggest a high bball IQ: low turnovers, low fouls, high steals, good FT% and decent assists for a big. Also, he ranks 3rd in college basketball in offensive rebounding which is a good indicator of in-game athleticism and motor.

Video of him suggests he's not the most fluid athlete in the world, but he also looks a bit doughy and unbalanced. I really think a year or two of elite professional training on his core strength and diet would do wonders for his athleticism. He's no where near his peak potential, physically.

Frankly, I'm surprised the mocks have him going in the mid teens. He seems like a late lotto type of talent to me.

Bear in mind I watch very little college basketball. Take my draft opinions with a healthy dose of salt.


Welcome to the bandwagon, nate - always room for one more! ;-)

I started the season with my eye on Portis, and then was fortunate that the only regular season college game I saw in person was Georgia vs. Arkansas, and was in the 5th row so had a true courtside view. Some of my observations:

* He is very smooth, or whatever synonym you want to use. I really came away with the feeling that he wasn't giving 100% - but that was because of the way he moves. This is why I was surprised to hear the scouting reports praise his "high motor." If you're equating effort with Etan-style elbows and grunting, then you will think he is not a high effort guy. But the reality is that he does give effort, and is very active, but does it in a way that doesn't have the outward appearance of exerting himself on every possession.

* Because of that, I think he has a better upside than a (to pick a name) Faried-type player. Faried maximizes every second on the court, and is able to take advantage of opponents' coasting through the season, but that is a hard way to go for the long term. Portis does well to balance effort with skill, and will be better suited to playoff basketball than a Faried, because by the playoffs, (almost) everyone is giving maximum effort with more rest available, so Faried's advantage is somewhat neutralized.

* He's not a big-time defender (even though he was definitely the tallest player on the court), but will make the occasional play that surprises you. He had one block in space - out at the FT line extended - where I'm sure the shooter didn't have any idea he was a threat to block it. That and the occasional steal (poked away a few balls with his long arms) will you get a few possessions shut down each game without a shot even getting to the rim.

* The crowd was on him all game. The headband makes him stand out (as if being almost 7' wasn't enough), and every time he touched the ball, the crowd jeered. He seemed entirely unfazed - never played to the crowd, never seemed affected at all. Very composed. I like that.

* His teammate Qualls was far flashier - made the big 3-pointer or the dunk, played to the crowd, all of that. But in the end, Portis was the one who had the bigger impact. Not in big moments but in all the little moments over 40 minutes. He might be the anti-Pierce, in that a few years from now I could see him as the guy who gets you the unremarkable 15 & 8 through the first 3 quarters, while the "star" makes the plays in the 4th to seal the win. The thing is, you wouldn't have been in position for the star to win the game if it weren't for Portis' work to get you there.

* I don't think he took a 3-pointer in the game I saw, but had a very nice stroke from the FT line and on the mid-range jumper (uh oh...). I definitely think he could become a Stretch 4 and develop the NBA 3-ball.

* His body type is a bit unusual. To me, he seems to have a skinny frame, but doesn't look like a KG-type wiry guy. Interesting that his numbers are kinda sorta like Bosh, including the 8.0% body fat. Bosh would obviously be an impossible-dream type of best case, especially since Bosh is an excellent defender. But offensively, Bosh might be a good target for Portis to aim for. And I agree that hopefully with professional training, proper diet, and commitment, he will keep his athleticism, and should gain strength while losing some "baggage".

* I do think he can be a small-ball C. I'd be reluctant to start him there or play him more than 10-12 minutes at C as a general rule, but he could definitely get some minutes, including crunch time. If you're trying to get back in a game, or need FT shooting to close out the game, he'd be a great addition as a situational C.


All that said, I'd be a bit nervous about giving up next year's 1st, if only because I know we'll need that pick to round out the roster after (hopefully) signing a big-time FA next summer. I'd rather find another way to get to 14 or 15, although OKC and ATL might be the last 2 teams interested in trading with the Wiz. It would certainly have to be Lottery-protected (to protect against worst-case scenarios), and preferable top 20 protected. But in the end, if it ensured I could get Portis - i.e., not make the trade until the other team is on the board with Portis still available - then I'd probably do it.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#694 » by Severn Hoos » Thu May 21, 2015 4:47 pm

AFM wrote:Has anyone brought up that we can't have both a Porter and a Portis on the team? Would confuse the hell outta wittman


Wittman? Think about poor Buckhantz!
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#695 » by nuposse04 » Thu May 21, 2015 5:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:I probably said this before - I wouldn't trade a future pick to move up for Portis, but I would do it for either Kaminsky or Turner. I have Turner rated the 5th best prospect in the draft, and most mocks have him going around 12th. But Kaminsky is close to the perfect fit for the Wiz, imo. He's better than Portis because he can create offense for himself and for teammates - in addition to what Portis can do. If you want to play Spurs like offense, he's the guy. Rich man's Diaw.


Portis and Kaminsky put up pretty similar numbers in their sophomore seasons, the advanced stats. Portis did it on a much larger sample size which makes it more impressive.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... tis-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... sky-1.html

I buy that Kaminsky might end up being a really good offensive 5, and an adequate defender...I don't really see how he can keep up with NBA 4s, but we shall see I suppose. If we didn't have Gortat I'd understand coveting Kaminsky more, but our need for a 4 makes me prefer Portis, simply because I think Portis will eventually be able to guard NBA 4s.

My other question is, which player had to deal with lesser PG play? Who had to do more on their own and will benefit more from playing with Wall?
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#696 » by mictic » Thu May 21, 2015 5:26 pm

If we are going to trade our '16 1st I'd much rather target Kaminsky. I'm not sold on Portis potential as a stretch 4. His shot looks soo weird and he has a pretty slow release. I'm not fully convinced he can extend his range to the NBA 3 and consistently get his shot off fast enough against NBA calibre rotations.

On the other hand I feel you can plug Kaminsky into the rotation in his rookie season for 15-20 mins strictly as a spot up 4 alongside Wall and have him be a net positive. Yes he is going to give up a little on D while he is still gaining strength but we sported a rotation of a hobbled Nene, Humphries, Gooden and Blair there this season while still maintaining a top 10 defense. And on offense we have seen what a stretch 4 does to Wall's game over the last weeks. Plus with his skillset, proven work ethic and personality I doubt he'll bust.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#697 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Thu May 21, 2015 5:41 pm

AFM wrote:Has anyone brought up that we can't have both a Porter and a Portis on the team? Would confuse the hell outta wittman


Not to mention Temple.
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Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#698 » by Ruzious » Thu May 21, 2015 6:06 pm

nuposse04 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I probably said this before - I wouldn't trade a future pick to move up for Portis, but I would do it for either Kaminsky or Turner. I have Turner rated the 5th best prospect in the draft, and most mocks have him going around 12th. But Kaminsky is close to the perfect fit for the Wiz, imo. He's better than Portis because he can create offense for himself and for teammates - in addition to what Portis can do. If you want to play Spurs like offense, he's the guy. Rich man's Diaw.


Portis and Kaminsky put up pretty similar numbers in their sophomore seasons, the advanced stats. Portis did it on a much larger sample size which makes it more impressive.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... tis-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... sky-1.html

I buy that Kaminsky might end up being a really good offensive 5, and an adequate defender...I don't really see how he can keep up with NBA 4s, but we shall see I suppose. If we didn't have Gortat I'd understand coveting Kaminsky more, but our need for a 4 makes me prefer Portis, simply because I think Portis will eventually be able to guard NBA 4s.

My other question is, which player had to deal with lesser PG play? Who had to do more on their own and will benefit more from playing with Wall?

Kaminsky is a 4 who can also play center. Portis isn't any more athletic. If anything, I think Kaminsky's more mobile on defense. Like I said, imo the big difference between them is that Kaminsky can create for himself and his teammates. You can run your offense through him and not be so dependent on Wall in that regard. One analyst said Wisconsin had the most efficient I like Portis and would be happy if the Wiz get him. But imo, Kaminsky's better for the reasons that I gave - regardless of any analysis of the quality of PGs they played with.
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Re: 

Post#699 » by payitforward » Thu May 21, 2015 6:18 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Williams is a lot less athletic than Millsap. He's more like Blair and latter career Wes Unseld. Williams is not a guy I see the Wizards drafting.

I think he'll be like Joey Dorsey or Jack Cooley. He may not originally stick in the NBA.

Williams has a wide base and terrific hands. He makes shots off the backboard, shoots hooks, and is a lot more fluid on offense than Blair; but I'd be lying if I said Williams isn't similar.

Millsap was a lottery worthy talent who rebounded, blocked shots, stole the ball, scored well at Louisiana Tech, and he played above the rim.

Williams will rebound well and he'll hit open shots. He is a small ball C who can play a little PF.

Check out this Alan Williams video interview: pay special attention beginning at 1:55 -- welcome to the Bullets, Alan Williams!

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Ala ... view-4958/

:)
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Re: Re: 2015 Draft Thread - Part 1 

Post#700 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 21, 2015 6:46 pm

Ruzious wrote:
AFM wrote:Has anyone brought up that we can't have both a Porter and a Portis on the team? Would confuse the hell outta wittman

Hands brought that up years ago - just after he brought up his theory about the earth revolving around the sun - which in turn revolves around Jan Vesely.

Remember when UConn had Donny Marshall and Donyell Marshall?


I do!

Both made the NBA. Donny didn't last long, but Donyell had a nice career. He had the NBA record for threes in a game, with IIRC 11.

Donyell Marshall would make a lot of money as a stretch four in today's NBA. He was underrated.

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