Political Roundtable Part XXIII

[Jamaaliver]

They’re Trained for War. Now American Troops Are Headed to the U.S. Border

Already, President Trump has sent 1,000 military forces to the southwest border in a decision he said will protect Americans from a caravan of migrants coming from Central America. He has pledged to deploy at least 4,000 more troops by week’s end, as part of a last-ditch effort to galvanize the Republican base before the midterm elections on Tuesday.

But using the world’s most powerful military to stop some 3,000 unarmed migrants who may or may not make it to the United States border might not be the best use of taxpayer dollars at the Defense Department. Here’s why:


The troops are prohibited from border combat.

One reason Mr. Mattis initially sought to send only 800 troops is because they will have little to do beyond providing logistical support unless Mr. Trump declares martial law. Using the American military to enforce immigration or criminal laws at the border, or in other law enforcement capacities, would run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878,

At least as of yet, military troops at the southwest border will largely be tasked with duties like building tents, transporting border officials on helicopters and shoveling manure from Border Patrol horses.


The troops may already be gone by the time the migrant caravan arrives.

The migrant caravan is around 900 miles away, and most of the people in it are walking. Even if they managed to walk 20 miles a day, they most likely would not arrive until after Dec. 15.

Put another way, the caravan is at least 45 days from the southwest border. As of Tuesday, American troops were scheduled to end their border deployment in 46 days.

New York Times

[Pointgod]

They’re Trained for War. Now American Troops Are Headed to the U.S. Border

Already, President Trump has sent 1,000 military forces to the southwest border in a decision he said will protect Americans from a caravan of migrants coming from Central America. He has pledged to deploy at least 4,000 more troops by week’s end, as part of a last-ditch effort to galvanize the Republican base before the midterm elections on Tuesday.

But using the world’s most powerful military to stop some 3,000 unarmed migrants who may or may not make it to the United States border might not be the best use of taxpayer dollars at the Defense Department. Here’s why:


The troops are prohibited from border combat.

One reason Mr. Mattis initially sought to send only 800 troops is because they will have little to do beyond providing logistical support unless Mr. Trump declares martial law. Using the American military to enforce immigration or criminal laws at the border, or in other law enforcement capacities, would run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878,

At least as of yet, military troops at the southwest border will largely be tasked with duties like building tents, transporting border officials on helicopters and shoveling manure from Border Patrol horses.


The troops may already be gone by the time the migrant caravan arrives.

The migrant caravan is around 900 miles away, and most of the people in it are walking. Even if they managed to walk 20 miles a day, they most likely would not arrive until after Dec. 15.

Put another way, the caravan is at least 45 days from the southwest border. As of Tuesday, American troops were scheduled to end their border deployment in 46 days.

New York Times

Will be conveniently ignored by right wing posters

[Jamaaliver]

They’re Trained for War. Now American Troops Are Headed to the U.S. Border

Already, President Trump has sent 1,000 military forces to the southwest border in a decision he said will protect Americans from a caravan of migrants coming from Central America. He has pledged to deploy at least 4,000 more troops by week’s end, as part of a last-ditch effort to galvanize the Republican base before the midterm elections on Tuesday.

But using the world’s most powerful military to stop some 3,000 unarmed migrants who may or may not make it to the United States border might not be the best use of taxpayer dollars at the Defense Department. Here’s why:


The troops are prohibited from border combat.

One reason Mr. Mattis initially sought to send only 800 troops is because they will have little to do beyond providing logistical support unless Mr. Trump declares martial law. Using the American military to enforce immigration or criminal laws at the border, or in other law enforcement capacities, would run afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878,

At least as of yet, military troops at the southwest border will largely be tasked with duties like building tents, transporting border officials on helicopters and shoveling manure from Border Patrol horses.

New York Times

Will be conveniently ignored by right wing posters

The greatest fighting force in human history, on the border like:

[FAH1223]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

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[TGW]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

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This is why we need a third (and fourth) party. Many "Pro-Business Democrats" (aka Republicans with liberal social views) do not champion progressive values.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-for-hogan-are-the-tip-of-a-rotten-iceberg/2018/07/27/afa6295e-8f67-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ffb3b383339f

A couple dozen Democrats have endorsed Gov. Larry Hogan (R) in Maryland’s upcoming gubernatorial election. The “Democrats for Hogan” are mostly older, white men.

The geography of the endorsements, map-wise and mentally, is also telling; these Democrats mostly are from the Eastern Shore, Western Maryland and Anne Arundel and Carroll counties — places where party allegiance has been and remains fluid. Anne Arundel’s Robert R. Neall has carried a D and an R after his name at different points in his political career.

Two factors need a closer look. First, the “Democrats for Hogan” are the tip of a rotten iceberg: The state’s Democrats, including the local central committees, are riddled with business-entangled elected types who have been slow to warm up to Democratic gubernatorial nominee Ben Jealous.

Second, Hogan’s popularity masks an administration that caters to the business community for whom party comes a very distant second to money. Working families are collateral damage from this relationship.

Hogan, as Gov. Robert Ehrlich’s (R) appointments secretary back in the day, had his pick of Ehrlich retreads to populate his own satrapies and took advantage of it. And while Hogan fronted a sunny-day regime for a state still riding the Obama economic boom, a distinctly pro-business bias suffused the most powerful and consequential departments, emphatically including the Maryland Department of the Environment. The MDE’s smooth-talking honcho, Ben Grumbles, a rare import without Ehrlich ties, has presided over significant rollbacks of pollution and carbon controls.

Hogan was overridden by the General Assembly several times for his veto of measures that aim to increase the state’s commitment to renewable energy sources and the jobs that would ensue.

Transportation Secretary Pete K. Rahn shamelessly pushes Hogan’s agenda of more roads and less mass transit.

Local governments around the state have reason to remember the way Hogan’s stacking of regulatory commissions and other bodies has coddled big business and stymied local planning. His appointments to the Public Service Commission rubber-stamped the merger of Exelon and state power companies, meaning local ratepayers will probably wind up paying for the outrageously expensive decommissioning of Exelon’s aged-out nuclear plants. And the new Prince George’s County hospital’s ability to serve a broad swath of the public was severely crippled by one Hogan appointee to a health-care regulatory commission, carrying out the mandate of the Heritage Foundation whence he came.

These pro-business Democrats have been helping Hogan in the legislature, too. Early in Hogan’s term, for instance, Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. (Calvert) and House Speaker Michael E. Busch (Anne Arundel) torpedoed a progressive measure that would have created a commission to refashion the state’s economy to reduce dependence on Pentagon spending and jump aboard the post-carbon future. Instead, they peremptorily created a pro-business commission headed by the retired chief executive of Lockheed Martin to find ways to make Maryland more business-friendly. General Assembly leadership then rapidly packaged and passed the recommendations, including tax relief for businesses.

By contrast, the long struggle to enact paid sick leave for Maryland’s 700,000 uncovered workers took at least five years to get out of the General Assembly, where pro-business Democrats sandbagged it year after year — and finally required an override of Hogan’s veto.

It would not be entirely a surprise that many Maryland Democrats, existentially tight with corporations and business interests, might stay quiet on the sidelines in a tilt between Hogan and Jealous, long a progressive champion. They might be surprised how that would affect their own reelection chances in the post-Bernie Sanders environment.

Between his cheery frontman stance and his centrist (including Democratic) enablers, Hogan indeed seems to have what Herb Smith, a professor of politics at McDaniel College, described as “a cloaking device or something.” The real Hogan, with his supportive corporate-entangled Democrats and all, is (at least for now) distinctly under the political radar.

[FAH1223]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

Read on Twitter

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This is why we need a third (and fourth) party. Many "Pro-Business Democrats" (aka Republicans with liberal social views) do not champion progressive values.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-for-hogan-are-the-tip-of-a-rotten-iceberg/2018/07/27/afa6295e-8f67-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ffb3b383339f

A couple dozen Democrats have endorsed Gov. Larry Hogan (R) in Maryland’s upcoming gubernatorial election. The “Democrats for Hogan” are mostly older, white men.

The geography of the endorsements, map-wise and mentally, is also telling; these Democrats mostly are from the Eastern Shore, Western Maryland and Anne Arundel and Carroll counties — places where party allegiance has been and remains fluid. Anne Arundel’s Robert R. Neall has carried a D and an R after his name at different points in his political career.

Two factors need a closer look. First, the “Democrats for Hogan” are the tip of a rotten iceberg: The state’s Democrats, including the local central committees, are riddled with business-entangled elected types who have been slow to warm up to Democratic gubernatorial nominee Ben Jealous.

Second, Hogan’s popularity masks an administration that caters to the business community for whom party comes a very distant second to money. Working families are collateral damage from this relationship.

Hogan, as Gov. Robert Ehrlich’s (R) appointments secretary back in the day, had his pick of Ehrlich retreads to populate his own satrapies and took advantage of it. And while Hogan fronted a sunny-day regime for a state still riding the Obama economic boom, a distinctly pro-business bias suffused the most powerful and consequential departments, emphatically including the Maryland Department of the Environment. The MDE’s smooth-talking honcho, Ben Grumbles, a rare import without Ehrlich ties, has presided over significant rollbacks of pollution and carbon controls.

Hogan was overridden by the General Assembly several times for his veto of measures that aim to increase the state’s commitment to renewable energy sources and the jobs that would ensue.

Transportation Secretary Pete K. Rahn shamelessly pushes Hogan’s agenda of more roads and less mass transit.

Local governments around the state have reason to remember the way Hogan’s stacking of regulatory commissions and other bodies has coddled big business and stymied local planning. His appointments to the Public Service Commission rubber-stamped the merger of Exelon and state power companies, meaning local ratepayers will probably wind up paying for the outrageously expensive decommissioning of Exelon’s aged-out nuclear plants. And the new Prince George’s County hospital’s ability to serve a broad swath of the public was severely crippled by one Hogan appointee to a health-care regulatory commission, carrying out the mandate of the Heritage Foundation whence he came.

These pro-business Democrats have been helping Hogan in the legislature, too. Early in Hogan’s term, for instance, Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. (Calvert) and House Speaker Michael E. Busch (Anne Arundel) torpedoed a progressive measure that would have created a commission to refashion the state’s economy to reduce dependence on Pentagon spending and jump aboard the post-carbon future. Instead, they peremptorily created a pro-business commission headed by the retired chief executive of Lockheed Martin to find ways to make Maryland more business-friendly. General Assembly leadership then rapidly packaged and passed the recommendations, including tax relief for businesses.

By contrast, the long struggle to enact paid sick leave for Maryland’s 700,000 uncovered workers took at least five years to get out of the General Assembly, where pro-business Democrats sandbagged it year after year — and finally required an override of Hogan’s veto.

It would not be entirely a surprise that many Maryland Democrats, existentially tight with corporations and business interests, might stay quiet on the sidelines in a tilt between Hogan and Jealous, long a progressive champion. They might be surprised how that would affect their own reelection chances in the post-Bernie Sanders environment.

Between his cheery frontman stance and his centrist (including Democratic) enablers, Hogan indeed seems to have what Herb Smith, a professor of politics at McDaniel College, described as “a cloaking device or something.” The real Hogan, with his supportive corporate-entangled Democrats and all, is (at least for now) distinctly under the political radar.

Miller and Bush have been in the MD legislature for ever. I'm hoping a Governor Ben Jealous can use his organizing skills to not only champion the issues he's running on but to gather a lot of allies in the legislature.

I'm tired of Hogan and his deception of being anti-trump when he's the vice chair of the RGA, getting millions from Big Pharma and the Kochs, and has presented no plan for a 2nd term.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

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Vote Democrat straight down the ticket.

[Wizardspride]

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[daoneandonly]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

Read on Twitter

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Vote Democrat straight down the ticket.

Does it matter in MD? Only the governor race is up for grabs, everything else is all democrat, all the time.

[FAH1223]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

Read on Twitter

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Vote Democrat straight down the ticket.

Does it matter in MD? Only the governor race is up for grabs, everything else is all democrat, all the time.

Koch money is being spent on MD Senate races to break the Dem super-majority so Hogan's vetos aren't overridden.

[gtn130]

So how do Deplorables feel about Trump lying to them about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

[stilldropin20]

well...i gave you guys 2 years to convince me otherwise. ive seen nothing to show trump colluded and everything he is doing is working out better for the american people than any democratic policy. The pause on immigration and globalization is refreshing.

so i will be voting red up and down the ticket. I'll be taking a break from the craziness and toxicity of politics for the next week or so. see you after the elections!

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[daoneandonly]

So how do Deplorables feel about Trump lying to them about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

Depends on your definition of deplorables, mine are baby killers and their supporters

[gtn130]

So how do Deplorables feel about Trump lying to them about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

Depends on your definition of deplorables, mine are baby killers and their supporters

Cool story. How do you feel about Trump lying to you about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

[daoneandonly]

So how do Deplorables feel about Trump lying to them about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

Depends on your definition of deplorables, mine are baby killers and their supporters

Cool story. How do you feel about Trump lying to you about pre-existing conditions and middle class tax cuts? Is this all good stuff?

Never said it was, if in fact they were lies. I cna already see the response from you, pointgod, sedale, querdo, etc: "your anecdotes don't mean anything"

But once again, me born with a pre-existing conditions. it's essentially robbed me from having a much better life, guess what, never had an issue with insurance. Was on my parents plan until the age of 22 when i got my first job, and had insurance through my work with each of the 3 employers I've been with. So while there is an issue on this subject, its not as large as the Dems make it out to be.

But I guess I'm the one, sole anomaly to every argument every rule

[Pointgod]

Democrats on this topic from Maryland, PLEASE VOTE for Ben Jealous.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This is why we need a third (and fourth) party. Many "Pro-Business Democrats" (aka Republicans with liberal social views) do not champion progressive values.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-for-hogan-are-the-tip-of-a-rotten-iceberg/2018/07/27/afa6295e-8f67-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ffb3b383339f

A couple dozen Democrats have endorsed Gov. Larry Hogan (R) in Maryland’s upcoming gubernatorial election. The “Democrats for Hogan” are mostly older, white men.

The geography of the endorsements, map-wise and mentally, is also telling; these Democrats mostly are from the Eastern Shore, Western Maryland and Anne Arundel and Carroll counties — places where party allegiance has been and remains fluid. Anne Arundel’s Robert R. Neall has carried a D and an R after his name at different points in his political career.

Two factors need a closer look. First, the “Democrats for Hogan” are the tip of a rotten iceberg: The state’s Democrats, including the local central committees, are riddled with business-entangled elected types who have been slow to warm up to Democratic gubernatorial nominee Ben Jealous.

Second, Hogan’s popularity masks an administration that caters to the business community for whom party comes a very distant second to money. Working families are collateral damage from this relationship.

Hogan, as Gov. Robert Ehrlich’s (R) appointments secretary back in the day, had his pick of Ehrlich retreads to populate his own satrapies and took advantage of it. And while Hogan fronted a sunny-day regime for a state still riding the Obama economic boom, a distinctly pro-business bias suffused the most powerful and consequential departments, emphatically including the Maryland Department of the Environment. The MDE’s smooth-talking honcho, Ben Grumbles, a rare import without Ehrlich ties, has presided over significant rollbacks of pollution and carbon controls.

Hogan was overridden by the General Assembly several times for his veto of measures that aim to increase the state’s commitment to renewable energy sources and the jobs that would ensue.

Transportation Secretary Pete K. Rahn shamelessly pushes Hogan’s agenda of more roads and less mass transit.

Local governments around the state have reason to remember the way Hogan’s stacking of regulatory commissions and other bodies has coddled big business and stymied local planning. His appointments to the Public Service Commission rubber-stamped the merger of Exelon and state power companies, meaning local ratepayers will probably wind up paying for the outrageously expensive decommissioning of Exelon’s aged-out nuclear plants. And the new Prince George’s County hospital’s ability to serve a broad swath of the public was severely crippled by one Hogan appointee to a health-care regulatory commission, carrying out the mandate of the Heritage Foundation whence he came.

These pro-business Democrats have been helping Hogan in the legislature, too. Early in Hogan’s term, for instance, Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. (Calvert) and House Speaker Michael E. Busch (Anne Arundel) torpedoed a progressive measure that would have created a commission to refashion the state’s economy to reduce dependence on Pentagon spending and jump aboard the post-carbon future. Instead, they peremptorily created a pro-business commission headed by the retired chief executive of Lockheed Martin to find ways to make Maryland more business-friendly. General Assembly leadership then rapidly packaged and passed the recommendations, including tax relief for businesses.

By contrast, the long struggle to enact paid sick leave for Maryland’s 700,000 uncovered workers took at least five years to get out of the General Assembly, where pro-business Democrats sandbagged it year after year — and finally required an override of Hogan’s veto.

It would not be entirely a surprise that many Maryland Democrats, existentially tight with corporations and business interests, might stay quiet on the sidelines in a tilt between Hogan and Jealous, long a progressive champion. They might be surprised how that would affect their own reelection chances in the post-Bernie Sanders environment.

Between his cheery frontman stance and his centrist (including Democratic) enablers, Hogan indeed seems to have what Herb Smith, a professor of politics at McDaniel College, described as “a cloaking device or something.” The real Hogan, with his supportive corporate-entangled Democrats and all, is (at least for now) distinctly under the political radar.

Doesn’t a 3rd party essentially split the Democratic vote? I’m not sure there’s a platform that could peel off enough Republicans and right leaning Independents to ensure that Republicans wouldn’t solidly maintain power.

[pancakes3]

any other republican posters want to weigh in on this citizenship issue? popper? nate? lurkers?