Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[nate33]

As much as I would love for it to happen at this point, the Wizards aren't going to trade Beal.

Being proactive about extending assets and being realistic about the teams talent level has never been their MO.

The best Wizards fans can hope for is that Beal will save the Wizards from themselves and for him to ride off into the sunset with another team.

We've all seen it coming back in 2016 and this is just a continuation of the **** job Leonsis has done as the owner of this franchise.

I think there's a very good chance they'll trade him, because if they keep losing ugly, he may request a trade.

It will be interesting.

I suspect at the moment he is more mad at himself than his teammates or front office. Beal knows he has played like crap this year, so it would be kind of weird for him to demand to be traded.

But if Beal starts playing better, like he did tonight in Sacramento, and the team still loses, it will then be a lot more justifiable to request a trade.

[payitforward]

Will Rui be shopped do you guys think?

Just curious... what do you think he might bring?

[Larry_Russell]

Will Rui be shopped do you guys think?

Just curious... what do you think he might bring?

IMO he ia still operating on potential. He produces albeit unspectacularly and the numbers are closer to modest than great. Also his contract, i think, is up for extensions soon?

Perhaps a young player at a position of need and a 2nd or a mid first?

[Ruzious]

We started the 2014-15 season 19-6 -- even better, way better, than this season's early success.

Then we went 27-30 the rest of the way & started the following season 23-28.

The "solution" was to trade for Markieff Morris. Giving a f'ing lottery pick!

Now, Tommy isn't Ernie. But... I wonder what we can expect.

At least then, the argument could be made that our middling success was on the backs of two very young guards who would continue to improve. The idea of sacrificing future picks to add more win-now talent was at least plausibly defensible.

Now, our "success" is on the backs of guys aged 28-29 who will probably start to decline in the next year or two if they're not declining already (Beal, Harrell, KCP, Dinwiddie, Bertans). There's no reason to think that the roster as currently constructed can get much better. We can only count on incremental improvement out of a few younger role players (Avdija, Kispert, Rui, Bryant).

It's time to blow it up. Trade everyone over 25 years old and tank.

Yup. I think they made a good faith effort to try to get a 50 win team, and it's just not gonna happen. Dinwiddie busted and they had no way of knowing Rui would fall apart. Time to cut the losses and lose - so to speak. Get what we can in young assets for the old assets. The worst thing they can do is wait another few years to start a rebuild.

[payitforward]

We started the 2014-15 season 19-6 -- even better, way better, than this season's early success.

Then we went 27-30 the rest of the way & started the following season 23-28.

The "solution" was to trade for Markieff Morris. Giving a f'ing lottery pick!

Now, Tommy isn't Ernie. But... I wonder what we can expect....

At least then, the argument could be made that our middling success was on the backs of two very young guards who would continue to improve. The idea of sacrificing future picks to add more win-now talent was at least plausibly defensible....

Actually, all the "success" was early & spectacular & came from the play of the late Rasual Butler & Paul Pierce. Which doesn't at all invalidate the following:

...Now, our "success" is on the backs of guys aged 28-29 who will probably start to decline in the next year or two if they're not declining already (Beal, Harrell, KCP, Dinwiddie, Bertans). There's no reason to think that the roster as currently constructed can get much better. We can only count on incremental improvement out of a few younger role players (Avdija, Kispert, Rui, Bryant).

It's time to blow it up. Trade everyone over 25 years old and tank.

Ted's over 25, isn't he...? Let's start by trading him!

[payitforward]

Will Rui be shopped do you guys think?

Just curious... what do you think he might bring?

IMO he is still operating on potential. He produces albeit unspectacularly and the numbers are closer to modest than great. Also his contract, i think, is up for extensions soon?

Perhaps a young player at a position of need and a 2nd or a mid first?

I'd jump at "a young player... and... a mid first," but I'd be very surprised if he brought an offer of that kind. For that matter, I'd jump at a mid first on its own. But, I don't think we'll get that kind of offer either.

I'm pretty sure we'll keep Rui with the hope that he eventually develops. Meanwhile, he has significant marketing value.

[WallToWall]

When Rui and Bryant come back, we will have a bunch of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th best player types (on any other team). Trade everyone over 25yo for the best deal possible. Begin the rebuild.


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[dckingsfan]

When Rui and Bryant come back, we will have a bunch of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th best player types (on any other team). Trade everyone 25 and over for the best deal possible. Begin the rebuild.

Assuming this is what you meant? Guessing that is a bit facetious? But still, that would be:

Code: Select all

Isaiah Todd             PF
Deni Avdija             SF
Joel Ayayi, (TW)        SG
Corey Kispert           SF
Daniel Gafford           C
Cassius Winston, (TW)   PG
Rui Hachimura           PF
Thomas Bryant            C

If you are rebuilding and you can't trade someone over the age of 25, I don't think you care as long as they are an expiring?

[WallToWall]

When Rui and Bryant come back, we will have a bunch of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th best player types (on any other team). Trade everyone 25 and over for the best deal possible. Begin the rebuild.

Assuming this is what you meant? Guessing that is a bit facetious? But still, that would be:

Code: Select all

Isaiah Todd             PF
Deni Avdija             SF
Joel Ayayi, (TW)        SG
Corey Kispert           SF
Daniel Gafford           C
Cassius Winston, (TW)   PG
Rui Hachimura           PF
Thomas Bryant            C

If you are rebuilding and you can't trade someone over the age of 25, I don't think you care as long as they are an expiring?

Trade everyone 25 y.o. and older. So this list will be the ones to keep. Start the rebuild. We’d surely get some good draft picks and possibly one or two good prospects given the players we trade.
As it stands, this team will not make noise in the playoffs, much less win a championship. Why keep them together?


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[payitforward]

If you are rebuilding and you can't trade someone over the age of 25, I don't think you care as long as they are an expiring?

I don't see why you wouldn't "care," but maybe you mean that you'd let such a player go anyway...?

We only have 2 such players, however: Harrell & Neto. We'd be able to trade Harrell, & I think probably Neto as well -- given how little he makes. I.e. he could be fit into a deal pretty easily.

But, of course, we *aren't* going to trade everyone over 25. The real decision we need to make is whether we're going to trade Bradley Beal. Everything else hinges on that.

If we are willing to trade Brad, what matters next is what comes back. Since, presumably, it won't just be a single player coming back for Brad, & given we have a full roster already, it's kind of a complicated question what else we do. Sufficiently so that I think it would make it an open question whether we can keep all our young players.

OTOH, if we decide that we are keeping Brad... it just gets more complicated! Disastrously so, in fact, b/c that decision would likely lead to trading our young players instead of the older ones. In which case, we're back in Ernie-land.

This is all on Ted. 100%.

[dckingsfan]

If you are rebuilding and you can't trade someone over the age of 25, I don't think you care as long as they are an expiring?

...The real decision we need to make is whether we're going to trade Bradley Beal. Everything else hinges on that.

and

...If we are willing to trade Brad, what matters next is what comes back. Since, presumably, it won't just be a single player coming back for Brad, & given we have a full roster already, it's kind of a complicated question what else we do.

and

...This is all on Ted. 100%.

Well, this cuts to the chase doesn't it (thanks in advance for letting me cut your response).

Beal is over 25, so there is that - but you hit the nail on the head - what do we get back and are they young players and given it may be more than 1 player how do we get to keep all our 25&Us. Don't know - by your response, you already know that

Your last point is the key - if Ted is tied to Beal and ties Tommy's hands - well, a long-term disaster is looming. IMO, we have between now and the trade deadline to make "THE" moves we need to make.

[gambitx777]

It's the holidays so I'll give you all the gift of a crazy cross trade idea.
5 team mega block buster incoming !

Wizards get : John wall, Kenyon Martin Jr, Charles bassey, Jaden Springer, Desmond bane, De'anthony Melton. LA 2022 first from grizz (11-30, turns into two seconds if it falls in the 1-10 range.), jazz 2022 first from grizz, 2023 first from 76ers, 2023 second from magic, 2024 GSW first from grizz, the most favorable 2024 second from rockets, 2025 second from magic, 2027 first from 76ers.

76ers get: Beal and Dinwidie

Grizz get: Simmons, Nato and Gill.

Magic get: Danny green, thybulle, Kyle Anderson, Jerret Culver, cash

Huston: Bertans, Harrell and Gary Harris.

Why
Well the wizards refill their draft pick stock pi. Fully! Are they the best picks maybe not but I'll take my chances with quantity. They add 4 decent young players on team friendly deals. Martin and bassey are interesting former second rounders. I wanted Springer last year but we got holiday and Todd, this fixes that. bane is a stud and Melton is a solid young guard option at 23 on a good deal. yes John wall..... I know his contracts terrible but he really hasn't played much and his legs have had some rest and he only has one year left on that mega deal. So we play him minutes on a rebuilding bad team draft his replacement and hope for the best and maybe he regains enough value to trade next deadline. Not like we are going to be freeagenst players this summer any way. Besides this trade gets the team out of tax trouble too and most importantly gets bertans off the books. Yes John walls deal has more actual money left on it but I see us fitting better with more from John wall when this team will still not have not a ton of PG options over bertans when we still have a ton of 4s and wings. The wizards can then go out and flip KCP and KUZ for more assets and really kick into a full rebuild with some good young players and lots of draft picks to play with.

Why for the 76ers. This puts them in title contender status

Why for grizz: Simmons next to JA. With most of that teams important players still there, is nasty maybe even true contender core.

Orlando flips some contracts around and pays a couple of seconds to get a look at tybulle and Culver. They are pretty wing needy at this point, so this flip of Harris and use of their tpes makes sense.

Rockets. Well they save a good bit of money and only spend a second and Martin jr. Bertans has an early termination option in the last year of his deal and he is more valuable to them than John wall. They have plenty of young options at PG but a vet sharp shooter can be good to have on any team. Plus if bertans is playing well he will have more positive value as his contact shrinks, it's a better investment than keeping John wall around plus Trez fills a need at center for them.

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[pcbothwel]

I'm not one to jump ship early, but even if we improve a bit, it appears we max out at winning ~12 of the next 25 games before the trade deadline. In all likelihood, we end up losing 16 of the next 24, putting is at about 7th/8th in draft board.
So the rebuild is inevitable unless they land Simmons for Dinwiddie and spare parts.... So I'd do as follows:

1) Trade Kuz: Trading a star like Beal or our main energy big in Harrell seems to aggressive this early, so start small with a Kuz trade and the Bulls seem like a clear fit with their need for a versatile PF.
- Kuz to Bulls for Derrick Jones, Min Filler, and the Portland 1st (Lotto protected until 2028)
- This gets a nice future 1st and a little more breathing room under the tax for follow on trades. I would also be open to adding in a Trex for Pat Williams swap, but not sure the Bulls would.

2) Trade Harrell: We'll have to wait until Bryant is 100% back, but a number of contenders could use/will need a 6MOTY caliber big man for 20+ MPG. Obviously injuries can and will add some candidates, but with that aside, I look at Charlotte, GSW, Bulls, etc. as all interesting fits for Trez. Maybe ATL (Trez is from GA) if Okongwu doesnt show something in the next month.

3) Trade Beal: The only teams that will give us considerable value are teams that A) Are title contenders, B) Think Beal will resign, and C) Dont have a clear avenue/cap space to acquire him in the summer. To me that leaves Philly, Boston and GSW (Denver, Dallas, LAC, and Miami dont have the picks or young assets).
- I personally think sending him to Philly with Simmons going to a 3rd team would be the best value. Philly pays a small premium to us (Springer, pick, etc.) and the 3rd team sends us picks. I think the Twolves and Knicks would send us a ton of picks + swaps to send them Simmons and take on salary.
I.E. Springer, Petrusev, future 1st from Philly. Fournier, Kemba, Knox, McBride, and a boat load of picks from NYK

Remember, NYK has the 2023 Mavs 1st and what will most likley be the 2023/24 1st from Charlotte along with all their picks. This provides for a ton of flexibility for a good trade.

4) Don't trade Dinwiddie: With Beal gone, Dinwiddie can be the lead guard and improve his stock. The lead guard, like a QB, is the primary decision maker and keeps the gears moving. Trading Beal AND Dinwiddie would induce too much chaos.

Dinwiddie / Springer / McBride
Fournier / KCP / Ayayi
Deni / Kispert
Rui / Bertans
Gafford / Bryant / Petrusev

Look to get value from Dinwiddie, KCP, Bertans, Fournier, etc. over the next couple years before trading them off as well.

[nate33]

I'm not one to jump ship early, but even if we improve a bit, it appears we max out at winning ~12 of the next 25 games before the trade deadline. In all likelihood, we end up losing 16 of the next 24, putting is at about 7th/8th in draft board.
So the rebuild is inevitable unless they land Simmons for Dinwiddie and spare parts.... So I'd do as follows:

1) Trade Kuz: Trading a star like Beal or our main energy big in Harrell seems to aggressive this early, so start small with a Kuz trade and the Bulls seem like a clear fit with their need for a versatile PF.
- Kuz to Bulls for Derrick Jones, Min Filler, and the Portland 1st (Lotto protected until 2028)
- This gets a nice future 1st and a little more breathing room under the tax for follow on trades. I would also be open to adding in a Trex for Pat Williams swap, but not sure the Bulls would.

2) Trade Harrell: We'll have to wait until Bryant is 100% back, but a number of contenders could use/will need a 6MOTY caliber big man for 20+ MPG. Obviously injuries can and will add some candidates, but with that aside, I look at Charlotte, GSW, Bulls, etc. as all interesting fits for Trez. Maybe ATL (Trez is from GA) if Okongwu doesnt show something in the next month.

3) Trade Beal: The only teams that will give us considerable value are teams that A) Are title contenders, B) Think Beal will resign, and C) Dont have a clear avenue/cap space to acquire him in the summer. To me that leaves Philly, Boston and GSW (Denver, Dallas, LAC, and Miami dont have the picks or young assets).
- I personally think sending him to Philly with Simmons going to a 3rd team would be the best value. Philly pays a small premium to us (Springer, pick, etc.) and the 3rd team sends us picks. I think the Twolves and Knicks would send us a ton of picks + swaps to send them Simmons and take on salary.
I.E. Springer, Petrusev, future 1st from Philly. Fournier, Kemba, Knox, McBride, and a boat load of picks from NYK

Remember, NYK has the 2023 Mavs 1st and what will most likley be the 2023/24 1st from Charlotte along with all their picks. This provides for a ton of flexibility for a good trade.

4) Don't trade Dinwiddie: With Beal gone, Dinwiddie can be the lead guard and improve his stock. The lead guard, like a QB, is the primary decision maker and keeps the gears moving. Trading Beal AND Dinwiddie would induce too much chaos.

Dinwiddie / Springer / McBride
Fournier / KCP / Ayayi
Deni / Kispert
Rui / Bertans
Gafford / Bryant / Petrusev

Look to get value from Dinwiddie, KCP, Bertans, Fournier, etc. over the next couple years before trading them off as well.

This is perfect. All trades seem reasonable.

I particularly like starting with the Kuzma trade because it will shake things up and free up minutes for Rui and it will give us some salary flexibility to make other more complicated trades down the road.

The Beal/Simmons 3-way is almost certainly the best construct for our purposes - particularly if we could land a high pick from a team like New Orleans, or a lot of picks from New York. The next best thing would be just keep Simmons. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3-way packages are lackluster and keeping Simmons turns out to be the best option.

Harrell will probably be the toughest piece to trade because, on an expiring contract, he really only has value to a contender; and most contenders are aware of his disappointing performances in the playoffs over the years. We may have to settle for an expiring contract and a middling 2nd round pick.

[Frichuela]

Someone on the overall trade board suggested trading Kuzma to ORL for RJ Hampton+Ross. They wanted us to add Kispert to balance the trade. If I am honest, this trade would intrigue me. I think RJ has potential as an athletic combo guard with size, who can shoot the 3, get to the rim and dish the ball.

If they insist on Kispert, I would push to get a second rounder out of them, e.g. IND 2022 2nd or (even better) their own!

[mhd]

Someone on the overall trade board suggested trading Kuzma to ORL for RJ Hampton+Ross. They wanted us to add Kispert to balance the trade. If I am honest, this trade would intrigue me. I think RJ has potential as an athletic combo guard with size, who can shoot the 3, get to the rim and dish the ball.

If they insist on Kispert, I would push to get a second rounder out of them, e.g. IND 2022 2nd or (even better) their own!

100% pass. Kuzma can get a future first in any trade. Id rather have that then Hampton (already in year 2). Ross is just filler.

[pcbothwel]

Spoiler:

I'm not one to jump ship early, but even if we improve a bit, it appears we max out at winning ~12 of the next 25 games before the trade deadline. In all likelihood, we end up losing 16 of the next 24, putting is at about 7th/8th in draft board.
So the rebuild is inevitable unless they land Simmons for Dinwiddie and spare parts.... So I'd do as follows:

1) Trade Kuz: Trading a star like Beal or our main energy big in Harrell seems to aggressive this early, so start small with a Kuz trade and the Bulls seem like a clear fit with their need for a versatile PF.
- Kuz to Bulls for Derrick Jones, Min Filler, and the Portland 1st (Lotto protected until 2028)
- This gets a nice future 1st and a little more breathing room under the tax for follow on trades. I would also be open to adding in a Trex for Pat Williams swap, but not sure the Bulls would.

2) Trade Harrell: We'll have to wait until Bryant is 100% back, but a number of contenders could use/will need a 6MOTY caliber big man for 20+ MPG. Obviously injuries can and will add some candidates, but with that aside, I look at Charlotte, GSW, Bulls, etc. as all interesting fits for Trez. Maybe ATL (Trez is from GA) if Okongwu doesnt show something in the next month.

3) Trade Beal: The only teams that will give us considerable value are teams that A) Are title contenders, B) Think Beal will resign, and C) Dont have a clear avenue/cap space to acquire him in the summer. To me that leaves Philly, Boston and GSW (Denver, Dallas, LAC, and Miami dont have the picks or young assets).
- I personally think sending him to Philly with Simmons going to a 3rd team would be the best value. Philly pays a small premium to us (Springer, pick, etc.) and the 3rd team sends us picks. I think the Twolves and Knicks would send us a ton of picks + swaps to send them Simmons and take on salary.
I.E. Springer, Petrusev, future 1st from Philly. Fournier, Kemba, Knox, McBride, and a boat load of picks from NYK

Remember, NYK has the 2023 Mavs 1st and what will most likley be the 2023/24 1st from Charlotte along with all their picks. This provides for a ton of flexibility for a good trade.

4) Don't trade Dinwiddie: With Beal gone, Dinwiddie can be the lead guard and improve his stock. The lead guard, like a QB, is the primary decision maker and keeps the gears moving. Trading Beal AND Dinwiddie would induce too much chaos.

Dinwiddie / Springer / McBride
Fournier / KCP / Ayayi
Deni / Kispert
Rui / Bertans
Gafford / Bryant / Petrusev

Look to get value from Dinwiddie, KCP, Bertans, Fournier, etc. over the next couple years before trading them off as well.

This is perfect. All trades seem reasonable.

I particularly like starting with the Kuzma trade because it will shake things up and free up minutes for Rui and it will give us some salary flexibility to make other more complicated trades down the road.

The Beal/Simmons 3-way is almost certainly the best construct for our purposes - particularly if we could land a high pick from a team like New Orleans, or a lot of picks from New York. The next best thing would be just keep Simmons. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3-way packages are lackluster and keeping Simmons turns out to be the best option.

Harrell will probably be the toughest piece to trade because, on an expiring contract, he really only has value to a contender; and most contenders are aware of his disappointing performances in the playoffs over the years. We may have to settle for an expiring contract and a middling 2nd round pick.

Beal/Simmons: Yeah, I really think the Twolves are the perfect team to be the 3rd wheel. Simmons is good friends with KAT & DLO, they need to make move with this core, and their organization is suspect enough to make it worth the gamble on our end to get future unprotected 1st.

Harrell: Agreed on Harrell, but you can sure as hell believe a team would pay more than a middling 2nd...maybe two

[NatP4]

Someone on the overall trade board suggested trading Kuzma to ORL for RJ Hampton+Ross. They wanted us to add Kispert to balance the trade. If I am honest, this trade would intrigue me. I think RJ has potential as an athletic combo guard with size, who can shoot the 3, get to the rim and dish the ball.

If they insist on Kispert, I would push to get a second rounder out of them, e.g. IND 2022 2nd or (even better) their own!

100% pass. Kuzma can get a future first in any trade. Id rather have that then Hampton (already in year 2). Ross is just filler.

I don’t think the rest of the league values Kuzma like half this board+WUJ does. He’s absolute garbage. Boat anchor on/off numbers, the fluke rebounding numbers are finally gone now also, his TS is a hilariously awful 51% now. His contract is terrible.

His value reminds me of when we signed Andrew Nicholson and had to attach a 1st him.

[payitforward]

Someone on the overall trade board suggested trading Kuzma to ORL for RJ Hampton+Ross. They wanted us to add Kispert to balance the trade. If I am honest, this trade would intrigue me. I think RJ has potential as an athletic combo guard with size, who can shoot the 3, get to the rim and dish the ball.

If they insist on Kispert, I would push to get a second rounder out of them, e.g. IND 2022 2nd or (even better) their own!

100% pass. Kuzma can get a future first in any trade. Id rather have that then Hampton (already in year 2). Ross is just filler.

I pass too -- but not b/c Kuzma can get a future first in a trade. I can't imagine why you think that. But, Ross is dead weight, & Hampton is no more than a roll of the dice. I'd rather keep Kispert.

[NatP4]

Dump Kuzma and Holiday somewhere, and try and get a late 1st for Harrell to some contending team. Give Ayayi and Kispert some more playing time, maybe Todd also. Get Rui and TB back in the rotation.

Dinwiddie Neto
Beal Ayayi
KCP Kispert
Avdija Rui
Gafford Bryant

A mid first could turn into Kennedy Chandler or Jean Montero.