Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[queridiculo]

Not responding to anyone in particular, but I think that any trade proposal including McGee and a 2011 1st round pick had better yield an All Star in his prime.

There's just no way I'd be willing to move McGee given his upside. Sure, he's raw, but look around the league and tell me how many 7 footers with his athleticism you see out there.

Since the season has started McGee has shown consistent improvement on a game to game basis. He still has ways to go obviously, but I'm not ready to give up on a big that oozes that much potential.

[queridiculo]

I don't see Memphis giving up Gasol. I think O.J. Mayo will be the one they sacrifice if it comes down to a numbers game. Mayo has been made totally irrelevant by the ball dominating ways of Gay & Conley anyways. And Thabeet has proven he's not going to contribute much of anything anytime soon behind Gasol. Gasol is the one they can't afford to lose.

Agreed, the only way the Wizards get their hands on Gasol is free agency.

Speaking of Mayo, he's a guy I'd love to see Wall share the backcourt with in the future. I wonder if Thornton, Young and a conditional 1st rounder would get the job done.

[BanndNDC]

And the same was said whenever Antawn Jamison's defense was questioned.

We aren't getting Love anyways. But he really would have to be paired with a serious shot blocker. Love is a great rebounder but he's very floor bound. He isn't going to deter guys from attacking the paint or force many misses.

as you say it's moot. but the idea most of us had was to pair him with McGee. Since Love is builkier and taller than Jamison he could slow someone down enough to give McGee the little bit of time needed to get over for a shot blocking opportunity. if the 3 or 2 then crashes the boards from that side there'd be a solid chance of getting the rebound and hitting the outlet pass with McGee trailing. it should also be said that Love is a higher class of rebounder than Jamison.

with wall, maybe booker and mcgee have the energy perstering type guys to jump the lanes and get blocks. what we desperately are in need of is a rebounder. im on the train of thought that blatche and mcgee dont make a good pair. id keep mcgee because of his athleticism but more importantly because Blatche could (theoretically) get more in return. a finesse 4 and and athletic 5, neither of which is a great rebounder, presents a structural flaw in our inside defense. to make the current pairing work either Blatche has to become more of a banger (which would limit some of his offensive ability) or McGee has to develop into a Rodman type rebounder (aint gonna happen). In order to improve our overall inside defense we have to upgrade or change one of them.

[nate33]

as you say it's moot. but the idea most of us had was to pair him with McGee. Since Love is builkier and taller than Jamison he could slow someone down enough to give McGee the little bit of time needed to get over for a shot blocking opportunity. if the 3 or 2 then crashes the boards from that side there'd be a solid chance of getting the rebound and hitting the outlet pass with McGee trailing. it should also be said that Love is a higher class of rebounder than Jamison.

with wall, maybe booker and mcgee have the energy perstering type guys to jump the lanes and get blocks. what we desperately are in need of is a rebounder. im on the train of thought that blatche and mcgee dont make a good pair. id keep mcgee because of his athleticism but more importantly because Blatche could (theoretically) get more in return. a finesse 4 and and athletic 5, neither of which is a great rebounder, presents a structural flaw in our inside defense. to make the current pairing work either Blatche has to become more of a banger (which would limit some of his offensive ability) or McGee has to develop into a Rodman type rebounder (aint gonna happen). In order to improve our overall inside defense we have to upgrade or change one of them.

I don't think our rebounding situation is quite so dire. Yes, we're not a good rebounding team, but we're not that bad either. We currently rank 24th in rebound rate, and that's with a 22-year-old at center and a banged up 24-year-old at PF. We've outrebounded our opponents in 6 of our last 8 games.

Over time, McGee should continue to get a bit stronger, a bit better conditioned and a bit smarter on the glass. That's going to improve our team rebounding. Blatche should get healthy; that'll help some more. And sooner or later, we need to find a banger to replace Yi (could be Seraphin) which will help the rebounding a bit more.

I'm open-minded to splitting up the Blatche/McGee finesse tandem, but I'm not convinced that it's absolutely necessary.

[BanndNDC]

I don't think our rebounding situation is quite so dire. Yes, we're not a good rebounding team, but we're not that bad either. We currently rank 24th in rebound rate, and that's with a 22-year-old at center and a banged up 24-year-old at PF. We've outrebounded our opponents in 6 of our last 8 games.

Over time, McGee should continue to get a bit stronger, a bit better conditioned and a bit smarter on the glass. That's going to improve our team rebounding. Blatche should get healthy; that'll help some more. And sooner or later, we need to find a banger to replace Yi (could be Seraphin) which will help the rebounding a bit more.

I'm open-minded to splitting up the Blatche/McGee finesse tandem, but I'm not convinced that it's absolutely necessary.

29th in rebounds per game. that's pretty bad. we've only played 10 games (the other 2 we were beaten on the boards. orlando doubled our rebound total) and honestly we've had a pretty easy schedule so far. i like both blatche and mcgee i just dont think they complement each other stylistically. ideally we'll be able to add another big via the draft (or free agency) to create a good rotation but thats a crap shoot. i think we all agree that we need another big and that there are two things they would have to be: tall with a certain amount of bulk and a good rebounder. [i agree with you that gasol/blatche works and gasol/mcgee doesnt.] it's just a matter of how to acquire that piece. at this point i think trading Blatche would give us the best chance at acquiring that piece while maintaining the ability to get a blatche-light type of player (such as Yi) to fill out the rotation.

[nate33]

29th in rebounds per game. that's pretty bad. we've only played 10 games (the other 2 we were beaten on the boards. orlando doubled our rebound total) and honestly we've had a pretty easy schedule so far.

Basketball-reference lists us as 13th in ORB% and 22nd in DRB%.
ESPN lists us as 13th in ORB%, 29th in DRB%, and 24th in TRB%.
My spreadsheet lists us as 24th in TRB%.
We rank 29th in rebounds per game but that stat isn't particularly useful because it doesn't account for pace.

[Hoopalotta]

FWIW, Javale's the 15th rated offensive rebounder in the league and 61st in defensive rebounding (by rebound rate). It's of note that his defensive numbers are behind some of the more physical wings like Melo and Terrence Williams.

Obviously he can click those D-boards upwards by better balancing shot blocking with positional defense and I felt like I was seeing a bit of that in the last two games.

15th in offensive rebounding isn't too shabby, though.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

as you say it's moot. but the idea most of us had was to pair him with McGee. Since Love is builkier and taller than Jamison he could slow someone down enough to give McGee the little bit of time needed to get over for a shot blocking opportunity. if the 3 or 2 then crashes the boards from that side there'd be a solid chance of getting the rebound and hitting the outlet pass with McGee trailing. it should also be said that Love is a higher class of rebounder than Jamison.

with wall, maybe booker and mcgee have the energy perstering type guys to jump the lanes and get blocks. what we desperately are in need of is a rebounder. im on the train of thought that blatche and mcgee dont make a good pair. id keep mcgee because of his athleticism but more importantly because Blatche could (theoretically) get more in return. a finesse 4 and and athletic 5, neither of which is a great rebounder, presents a structural flaw in our inside defense. to make the current pairing work either Blatche has to become more of a banger (which would limit some of his offensive ability) or McGee has to develop into a Rodman type rebounder (aint gonna happen). In order to improve our overall inside defense we have to upgrade or change one of them.

I don't think our rebounding situation is quite so dire. Yes, we're not a good rebounding team, but we're not that bad either. We currently rank 24th in rebound rate, and that's with a 22-year-old at center and a banged up 24-year-old at PF. We've outrebounded our opponents in 6 of our last 8 games.

Over time, McGee should continue to get a bit stronger, a bit better conditioned and a bit smarter on the glass. That's going to improve our team rebounding. Blatche should get healthy; that'll help some more. And sooner or later, we need to find a banger to replace Yi (could be Seraphin) which will help the rebounding a bit more.

I'm open-minded to splitting up the Blatche/McGee finesse tandem, but I'm not convinced that it's absolutely necessary.

nate, I think the best case scenario might just be to draft a rugged SF/PF player like Kenneth Faried and play him next to Blatche and McGee in the future. Faried is a ferocios rebound who I think will be just like Millsap--tremendously underrated by the draft gurus.

I think the Wizrds might really be fortunate next season to be able to resign Howard fairly cheaply. Faried is going to have to play SF in the NBA; but he's also capable at PF. I'd love tto see him have time to learn off the bench.

[hands11]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... e_surgery/

So no one wants this guy anymore for McGee ?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/152504437

[LyricalRico]

^ Some of us didn't want him before.

[Ruzious]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70172/20101120/oden_undergoes_successful_knee_surgery/

So no one wants this guy anymore for McGee ?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/152504437

Depends on what the doctors say.

[Ruzious]

as you say it's moot. but the idea most of us had was to pair him with McGee. Since Love is builkier and taller than Jamison he could slow someone down enough to give McGee the little bit of time needed to get over for a shot blocking opportunity. if the 3 or 2 then crashes the boards from that side there'd be a solid chance of getting the rebound and hitting the outlet pass with McGee trailing. it should also be said that Love is a higher class of rebounder than Jamison.

with wall, maybe booker and mcgee have the energy perstering type guys to jump the lanes and get blocks. what we desperately are in need of is a rebounder. im on the train of thought that blatche and mcgee dont make a good pair. id keep mcgee because of his athleticism but more importantly because Blatche could (theoretically) get more in return. a finesse 4 and and athletic 5, neither of which is a great rebounder, presents a structural flaw in our inside defense. to make the current pairing work either Blatche has to become more of a banger (which would limit some of his offensive ability) or McGee has to develop into a Rodman type rebounder (aint gonna happen). In order to improve our overall inside defense we have to upgrade or change one of them.

I don't think our rebounding situation is quite so dire. Yes, we're not a good rebounding team, but we're not that bad either. We currently rank 24th in rebound rate, and that's with a 22-year-old at center and a banged up 24-year-old at PF. We've outrebounded our opponents in 6 of our last 8 games.

Over time, McGee should continue to get a bit stronger, a bit better conditioned and a bit smarter on the glass. That's going to improve our team rebounding. Blatche should get healthy; that'll help some more. And sooner or later, we need to find a banger to replace Yi (could be Seraphin) which will help the rebounding a bit more.

I'm open-minded to splitting up the Blatche/McGee finesse tandem, but I'm not convinced that it's absolutely necessary.

It is real bad right now - and you really can't win when you give up so many o-rebounds in close games. But I concur with the general point - the current group we have - perhaps with some tweaking (as opposed to reconstructive surgery) - can improve to the point where the Wiz are at least average. I think we are seeing a lot more effort from both Blatche and McGee, and that's the most important sign that there's reason to be optimistic. Of course, getting a guy like Love would pretty much assure them being competent and give them a shot a being a lot more than average.

[willbcocks]

as you say it's moot. but the idea most of us had was to pair him with McGee. Since Love is builkier and taller than Jamison he could slow someone down enough to give McGee the little bit of time needed to get over for a shot blocking opportunity. if the 3 or 2 then crashes the boards from that side there'd be a solid chance of getting the rebound and hitting the outlet pass with McGee trailing. it should also be said that Love is a higher class of rebounder than Jamison.

with wall, maybe booker and mcgee have the energy perstering type guys to jump the lanes and get blocks. what we desperately are in need of is a rebounder. im on the train of thought that blatche and mcgee dont make a good pair. id keep mcgee because of his athleticism but more importantly because Blatche could (theoretically) get more in return. a finesse 4 and and athletic 5, neither of which is a great rebounder, presents a structural flaw in our inside defense. to make the current pairing work either Blatche has to become more of a banger (which would limit some of his offensive ability) or McGee has to develop into a Rodman type rebounder (aint gonna happen). In order to improve our overall inside defense we have to upgrade or change one of them.

I don't think our rebounding situation is quite so dire. Yes, we're not a good rebounding team, but we're not that bad either. We currently rank 24th in rebound rate, and that's with a 22-year-old at center and a banged up 24-year-old at PF. We've outrebounded our opponents in 6 of our last 8 games.

Over time, McGee should continue to get a bit stronger, a bit better conditioned and a bit smarter on the glass. That's going to improve our team rebounding. Blatche should get healthy; that'll help some more. And sooner or later, we need to find a banger to replace Yi (could be Seraphin) which will help the rebounding a bit more.

I'm open-minded to splitting up the Blatche/McGee finesse tandem, but I'm not convinced that it's absolutely necessary.

nate, I think the best case scenario might just be to draft a rugged SF/PF player like Kenneth Faried and play him next to Blatche and McGee in the future. Faried is a ferocios rebound who I think will be just like Millsap--tremendously underrated by the draft gurus.

I think the Wizrds might really be fortunate next season to be able to resign Howard fairly cheaply. Faried is going to have to play SF in the NBA; but he's also capable at PF. I'd love tto see him have time to learn off the bench.

Can he hit the 3? A defender and tenacious rebounder with the ability to stick the open three would be perfect for our group.

[Benjammin]

Can he hit the 3? A defender and tenacious rebounder with the ability to stick the open three would be perfect for our group.

Yeah willb, there are a lot of guys like that easily available .

[Dat2U]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70172/20101120/oden_undergoes_successful_knee_surgery/

So no one wants this guy anymore for McGee ?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/152504437

Depends on what the doctors say.

What could the doctors say that we don't already know about? The guy has never been healthy. He makes Gilbert Arenas look indestructible. There was story out there that Oden has consistently dealt with injury after injury since the 8th grade! What more evidence do we need? Unless Oden was coming here for peanuts & we gave nothing of value I wouldn't even consider him.

Yes, it would be great to have someone of his talent. But it would be even more important if that guy could actually get on an NBA court and play meaningful minutes without breaking down. Haven't we already filled our quota of guys that can't stay healthy?

[Ruzious]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70172/20101120/oden_undergoes_successful_knee_surgery/

So no one wants this guy anymore for McGee ?

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/152504437

Depends on what the doctors say.

What could the doctors say that we don't already know about?

I don't know. I'm not a doctor.

[nate33]

Trade Deadline deal, assuming Arenas plays well and stays healthy:

Washington trades: Arenas + Hilton Armstrong
Dallas trades: Jason Terry + Brendan Haywood

Why for Washington:
It clears up a ton of cap space and solidifies the center position. McGee starts but Haywood plays more minutes when we go against low-post centers like Marc Gasol. It's a good combo, assuming Haywood will play the good soldier and agree to come off the bench. Terry's contract expires in 2012 and he can be bought out a year early for $5M as long as he plays less than 1500 minutes this season. The idea here is to exchange Arenas' horrific contract for Haywood's much better deal. It takes away Arenas' injury risk and it gives us ridiculous cap room in 2012. We'll have a payroll of just $33M including: Wall, Booker, Blatche, McGee (QO), Haywood and our 2011 draft pick. That could be $25M in cap room around an already solid team. Maybe we also trade Seraphin for a guard.

Why for Dallas:
They get younger and better and extend their championship window for another couple of years behind Arenas' offensive firepower.

[willbcocks]

If McGee starts sucking again and looks like a lost cause, I'll be all for this deal, but at the moment I'm happy without Brendan "starter or sulk" Haywood.

[LyricalRico]

If McGee starts sucking again and looks like a lost cause, I'll be all for this deal, but at the moment I'm happy without Brendan "starter or sulk" Haywood.

Agreed. If McGee is producing as a starter, I don't want to acquire a backup center with a $50M+ contract. Especially if he's a guy that won't accept his role, and doubly especially since we have a coach that benches young guys whenever there is a vet available (even if that vet isn't as good). I'd rather stick with McGee for a full season and bring in a cheap vet next year for depth when McGee can have solidified himself as the unquestioned starter.

Oh and I'm also souring on the whole idea of trading Arenas. I'd sitll deal him for 100% expirings but even that could change by the time the trade deadline comes around.

[nate33]

I hear you guys regarding the Haywood risk. If he rejects being a backup, it won't work. But I submit that, by the Trade Deadline, it may be manifestly obvious that McGee is the better player. In that scenario, Flip won't be itchy to bench McGee, and Haywood may indeed accept his role as a backup. It's not like he's a starter in Dallas anyway.

The bottom line is that it's better to pay $8M a year for a reliable backup center who is probably worth $5M a year, than it is to pay a pretty good starting SG $20M a year when he is probably worth more like $12M a year (and he comes with a significant injury risk). I really like that Haywood is the perfect yin to McGee's yang. He is a steady, position defender and pick-setter who makes no highlight plays but does the dirty work. Our front line would be set for the next 4 years and beyond.