2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I know I'm just talking to myself at this point, but I wanted to touch on MKG. Everything I read about him makes me want him on my team, because he seems like the perfect teammate. But even though I try and be optimistic, I just don't see how he fits in with our team. Mainly (probably only) because he simply cannot shoot the ball from deep. If Wall develops a long range jumper, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much that MKG can't shoot. But if Wall doesn't develop a deep shot (or if it's just so so), then we already have 3 of our core players (Wall, MKG, Nene) who can't shoot the ball. Yes, we can find a SG who can drain the three ball fairly easily, but it might be hard to acquire one who does that and also has a complete game aside from the three ball. And then we're just about forced to acquire a stretch 4. Stretch 4's don't grow on trees as far as I'm concerned. Not ones that can also rebound halfway decently or play a lick of defense, anyways.

Perhaps we should start figuring out if it's possible to win (and win a LOT) with hardly any three point shooters. I'd feel a lot better if someone could demonstrate that teams have been successful in the past despite not having any long range threats. Otherwise, I hate to say it, but MKG just doesn't have a place here. On most other teams I think he'd be a great pick and will be a valuable contributor, but given our current issues from deep, I just can't see it working out (unless we are very confident that Wall and/or MKG will have a good three point shot in the very near future).

I would pick Beal over MKG only because of his shooting. Wall's not a great shooter, so I would balance that out in the draft.

On the subject of rebounding at SG, I think Will Barton improved a ton this past season. He's not a great perimeter shooter but I think he will prove to be a really versatile SG who rebounds, distributes, slashes, runs the court well, and who can be a third scorer.

I look at the draft after Davis to see areas of disparate need. The Wizards are no longer tall at C post Javale. There is no point having just height at C, but the player needs skill. Tyler Zeller has the ability to be a high post scorer at C, and he can fill the lane and finish lobs in transition. Byron Mullens of the Bobcats has a bit of size and strength to finish. I think Zeller is him with a bit more speed and a hook shot. Washington could use him.

Another area of need in this draft is PG. Washington needs speed, explosion, finishing ability, and three point shooting in a PG. In a trade down scenario, Damian Lillard seems interesting to me. I think Mack is a pretty ordinary player, solid but unspectacular. He does compete well but I think the Wizards can upgrade. Marcus Denmon is going to be on the board in round 2 and he is a terrific shooter who might end up not far from as good as Lillard.

The best value pick on mocks IMO is Jae Crowder anywhere after 23 or so. In round two the Wizards need to get him. If they go Beal, Crowder, Denmon that would be a GREAT draft.

A guy with a disparate skill set who I think the Wizards could take a look at is Draymond Green. Yes, he's the size of Booker or a bit shorter but the guy kills the boards. Green rebounds better than Seraphin and he can hit threes. He's a worker and Izzo loves him. I think Draymond will be better than Royce White.

This draft is going to be one where I'm probably going to not be too emotional no matter who the Wizards pick. A nice touch might be for them to draft with the last pick Scott Machado. He is Brazilian and I think he's as good or better than Kendall Marshall. Chemistry is what I think the Wizards need to continue to build. He was the nation's assist leader year-before-this one and was close again this year. I think he would be good sub for Wall, and even better, he can play with Wall when John's scoring is on.

[rockymac52]

I know I'm just talking to myself at this point, but I wanted to touch on MKG. Everything I read about him makes me want him on my team, because he seems like the perfect teammate. But even though I try and be optimistic, I just don't see how he fits in with our team. Mainly (probably only) because he simply cannot shoot the ball from deep. If Wall develops a long range jumper, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much that MKG can't shoot. But if Wall doesn't develop a deep shot (or if it's just so so), then we already have 3 of our core players (Wall, MKG, Nene) who can't shoot the ball. Yes, we can find a SG who can drain the three ball fairly easily, but it might be hard to acquire one who does that and also has a complete game aside from the three ball. And then we're just about forced to acquire a stretch 4. Stretch 4's don't grow on trees as far as I'm concerned. Not ones that can also rebound halfway decently or play a lick of defense, anyways.

Perhaps we should start figuring out if it's possible to win (and win a LOT) with hardly any three point shooters. I'd feel a lot better if someone could demonstrate that teams have been successful in the past despite not having any long range threats. Otherwise, I hate to say it, but MKG just doesn't have a place here. On most other teams I think he'd be a great pick and will be a valuable contributor, but given our current issues from deep, I just can't see it working out (unless we are very confident that Wall and/or MKG will have a good three point shot in the very near future).

I would pick Beal over MKG only because of his shooting. Wall's not a great shooter, so I would balance that out in the draft.

On the subject of rebounding at SG, I think Will Barton improved a ton this past season. He's not a great perimeter shooter but I think he will prove to be a really versatile SG who rebounds, distributes, slashes, runs the court well, and who can be a third scorer.

I look at the draft after Davis to see areas of disparate need. The Wizards are no longer tall at C post Javale. There is no point having just height at C, but the player needs skill. Tyler Zeller has the ability to be a high post scorer at C, and he can fill the lane and finish lobs in transition. Byron Mullens of the Bobcats has a bit of size and strength to finish. I think Zeller is him with a bit more speed and a hook shot. Washington could use him.

Another area of need in this draft is PG. Washington needs speed, explosion, finishing ability, and three point shooting in a PG. In a trade down scenario, Damian Lillard seems interesting to me. I think Mack is a pretty ordinary player, solid but unspectacular. He does compete well but I think the Wizards can upgrade. Marcus Denmon is going to be on the board in round 2 and he is a terrific shooter who might end up not far from as good as Lillard.

The best value pick on mocks IMO is Jae Crowder anywhere after 23 or so. In round two the Wizards need to get him. If they go Beal, Crowder, Denmon that would be a GREAT draft.

A guy with a disparate skill set who I think the Wizards could take a look at is Draymond Green. Yes, he's the size of Booker or a bit shorter but the guy kills the boards. Green rebounds better than Seraphin and he can hit threes. He's a worker and Izzo loves him. I think Draymond will be better than Royce White.

This draft is going to be one where I'm probably going to not be too emotional no matter who the Wizards pick. A nice touch might be for them to draft with the last pick Scott Machado. He is Brazilian and I think he's as good or better than Kendall Marshall. Chemistry is what I think the Wizards need to continue to build. He was the nation's assist leader year-before-this one and was close again this year. I think he would be good sub for Wall, and even better, he can play with Wall when John's scoring is on.

Are you interested in Denmon as a PG or SG? He's so small that he's very undersized at the 2 in the NBA. But at the same time, he simply doesn't have the skills to be a point guard in this league. In the last four years at Mizzou I don't think Denmon took the ball up the court once. I love the guy, and I want to see him get drafted and do well, but I just don't think it's actually going to happen. I'd rather see us draft Kim English out of all the Mizzou guys possibly in the 2nd round. He won't be a star by any means, but he has a VERY high basketball IQ, and he hustles and works harder than any college player I've ever seen. He'd be like another assistant coach on the bench. He can also knock down the three and is a great team player. He probably averaged taking about 1 charge per game this season. It was remarkable.

[nate33]

Also I'm in the mold of thinking that we won't take Beal, due to the fact we'll have Max space in 2013 and Harden will be a major target.

Nah, that's not even a consideration. First of all, it's a pretty long shot that we'll end up with Harden. And secondly, Harden has the ability to play some PG and some SF so there won't be any minutes crunch. Wall, Harden and Beal could all coexist with each getting 32+ minutes a game.

[Nivek]

Dat's right that the history of the draft shows that elite talent is typically found at the top of the draft. Draft history also shows that very good (and sometimes great) players can be found later in the draft. To be blunt: teams don't do a very good job of picking players. Virtually every year, players slip through the cracks and end up being a find for someone who's picking later in the draft.

[nate33]

Are you interested in Denmon as a PG or SG? He's so small that he's very undersized at the 2 in the NBA. But at the same time, he simply doesn't have the skills to be a point guard in this league. In the last four years at Mizzou I don't think Denmon took the ball up the court once. I love the guy, and I want to see him get drafted and do well, but I just don't think it's actually going to happen. I'd rather see us draft Kim English out of all the Mizzou guys possibly in the 2nd round. He won't be a star by any means, but he has a VERY high basketball IQ, and he hustles and works harder than any college player I've ever seen. He'd be like another assistant coach on the bench. He can also knock down the three and is a great team player. He probably averaged taking about 1 charge per game this season. It was remarkable.

We are the perfect team to utilize an undersized SG because Wall can guard big SG's on defense.

[MDStar]

And honestly, a lot of it has to do with the right person, on the right team, at the right time. Only in a few instances are there ELITE can't miss players. For the rest, the variables begin from the moment they're drafted.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kim English is a name I won't be surprised at all to hear draft night, rocky. I'm a little bit skeptical of his improved shooting his last season at Mizzou. I think he sort of "drafted after the other race cars" so to speak of the Tigers. With Denmon, Michael Dixon, the speedy Pressey brothers, and high-percentage shooting Cardo Ratliff, I'm not sure how good a shooter English really is. He sort of reminds me of Harrison Barnes in terms of his reputation as a shooter.

rocky, you know Mizzou basketball way better than I. I go by stats and saw only bits of their games. My impression is it does not matter what Denmon plays, PG or SG, he's a far superior player to all but Flip Pressey. He's better than Flip, but Flip seems like a guy who will play in the NBA some day, short or not IMO.

The Wizards should not draft English if John Jenkins or Will Barton are on the draft board.

[Zonkerbl]

ccj, you had mentioned earlier a prospect who is a really good 3 pt shooter.

Kevin and ccj, among your favorite players, who are the best 3 pt shooters?

[rockymac52]

Kim English is a name I won't be surprised at all to hear draft night, rocky. I'm a little bit skeptical of his improved shooting his last season at Mizzou. I think he sort of "drafted after the other race cars" so to speak of the Tigers. With Denmon, Michael Dixon, the speedy Pressey brothers, and high-percentage shooting Cardo Ratliff, I'm not sure how good a shooter English really is. He sort of reminds me of Harrison Barnes in terms of his reputation as a shooter.

The Wizards should not draft English if John Jenkins or Will Barton are on the draft board.

I also think English could be one of our second round picks, partly because he's from Baltimore, and I know he's trained and played with Sam Cassell in the offseason in the past.

The big downside to drafting Kimmie is that he'll be 24 years old when the season starts next fall. The reality is he probably won't ever end up in a starting lineup anywhere, but if the cards fall in the right places, he could catch on as a role player off the bench somewhere. I'd love that place to be in Washington. I'd definitely have to buy a jersey haha.

As far as his improved shooting, I'll say this. In his first three seasons, he shoot about 37% from beyond the arc each year, then in his senior season he jumped up to 46%. I don't think that jump is necessarily the result of him improving his shot all that much. At least in his junior season, he really struggled and there were times where he simply couldn't find the hoop. He got in a funk mentally, and it destroyed his play on the court. But being the smart basketball player that he is, he regrouped last summer, and came back to school ready to play at a high level.

In his first three years he had trouble finding his role in the offense (in part due to then-coach Mike Anderson's style of play, aka no offensive sets or game plan at all). However, as a senior, under a more "real" offense of Frank Haith, he became the perfect team player, and knew his role perfectly. In the past he would frequently iso whenever he got the ball, because he had it in his mind that he was our main scorer and shot creator. Needless to say, it didn't work. His senior year, however, he started playing the role he should have always been in. He started coming off screens and stopped forcing shots, and now only took good looks for the most part. Taking better shots helped him increase his 3 point %. That's the main reason IMO.

With that said, while he's definitely a spot up shooter who can sink mid-range and three pointers coming off screens, that's about all he's going to offer offensively at the next level (other than a team player who will always look to make that one extra pass). But while he can shoot the ball pretty well, and it's his best skill offensively, it's hard to see him being one of those 3 point specialists in the NBA (the Daequan Cook's), because his shot doesn't seem as automatic as those types of players'. Here's a clip of Mike Miller draining threes at the Heat practice facility two years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=771MZUtK8Tk . He makes 27/30 three pointers with ease. Kim English probably shoots closer to 60-70% when wide open, at least according to the pictures he posts on twitter from time to time. Here's what I'm talking about... https://twitter.com/#!/Englishscope24/m ... F205265305

So basically I think he's a capable shooter from mid-range and from three, but I have my doubts about whether he's on that elite three point specialist level yet.

I will say this though... If I had to attribute Mizzou's success this past season to one person, it would definitely be Kim English. He was the captain, and for good reason. He was a leader on and off the court, and everyone knew it. He was the glue. You're right that in some ways he was secondary to Denmon, Dixon, Phil Pressey (not his brother), and Ratliffe, but ultimately he played a much more important role, and to be fair, was 2nd in the team in PPG behind only Denmon. Those other guys can make their own shot much better than Kimmie can, but Kimmie still finds ways to score, and often. But what I was trying to say earlier is that Kimmie was the heart and soul of this team. Two years ago, his junior year, the program was quickly spiraling out of control. Mizzou couldn't win a road game to save their lives, and everybody was playing selfishly, then of course Anderson left for Arkansas abruptly leaving a deep senior class behind. All the wheels were falling off. But I am confident that Kimmie was the one who stepped up and guided the entire team back to playing good, team basketball and staying positive. He got the rest of the team to buy in thankfully, and this squad played the best team basketball I have honestly ever seen at any college program. When Kimmie pulled his hamstring late in the Big 12 Tournament, you could see the team starting to unravel again. He was truly the glue holding it all together.

[rockymac52]

rocky, you know Mizzou basketball way better than I. I go by stats and saw only bits of their games. My impression is it does not matter what Denmon plays, PG or SG, he's a far superior player to all but Flip Pressey. He's better than Flip, but Flip seems like a guy who will play in the NBA some day, short or not IMO.

As far as Denmon goes, if you go by stats, he's probably the best of the bunch. But all along he's looked like one of those guys who is good enough to tear up the NCAA, but not quite good enough to make it in the NBA.

I still don't think he can realistically play PG in the NBA. He just doesn't have very good ball-handling skills all things considered, and while he's not a me-first ball hog, he's not really a distributor either. I know there are some guys in the NBA who come off the bench and play 10-15 minutes at PG even though they aren't exactly pass-first, and those guys have their niche, but I don't see Denmon being one of those guys.

Even though he was a 2 time all big 12 1st team player, there were tons of games where he faded into the background and didn't take charge. Part of that was because all 7 of the guys who regularly saw the court in Mizzou's rotation were capable of scoring and playing at a high level, so Denmon didn't need to be "the man" every single game. But even when he took a step back, he still always seemed to manage to get at least 15 points and help us on a run.

Denmon is more athletic and talented than English on the offensive end, but he isn't good enough to make it in the NBA IMO, mainly because of his size and lack of ball-handling skills. Even if we wanted to let Wall guard the other team's SG and have Denmon guard the PG, I don't think he's a guy we want logging many minutes at all at the 2. I feel bad for doubting him, considering how much he's produced, and how well he's played against the best of the best in the past, but he just doesn't pass the eye test for me. He'll be a hell of a D Leaguer if that's where he ends up though. EDIT - I forgot to mention, Denmon has legit NBA 3 point range. No doubt in my mind. He'd pull up from a good 4-5 feet behind the college arc and hit shots with ease all the time.



Oh, and yeah, I agree, Phil Pressey is going to make it in the NBA next year or the year after even despite how small he is. If he was as big as your standard NBA PG, I think he'd be a surefire lottery pick. He's one of those guys who is simply so good at basketball that it doesn't matter how small he is.

[Ruzious]

Interesting posts on English and Denman. I've come around on Denman far more than English - even though English is taller and better shooting stats this season for 1 primary reason - age. I don't think English is going to get drafted, because he's going to be 24 in September. Plus, he's a late bloomer. Using Nate's point about the luxury of having a big PG like Wall allowing for a short 2, I've really come around to liking Denman in the 2nd round. We want a high volume 3 point shooter who's efficient and plays solidly in all facets. By all accounts, he does that, and I like his extremely low turnover rate. Assuming no trades, I'll be pulling for him to be there at pick # 46.

[rockymac52]

Interesting posts on English and Denman. I've come around on Denman far more than English - even though English is taller and better shooting stats this season for 1 primary reason - age. I don't think English is going to get drafted, because he's going to be 24 in September. Plus, he's a late bloomer. Using Nate's point about the luxury of having a big PG like Wall allowing for a short 2, I've really come around to liking Denman in the 2nd round. We want a high volume 3 point shooter who's efficient and plays solidly in all facets. By all accounts, he does that, and I like his extremely low turnover rate. Assuming no trades, I'll be pulling for him to be there at pick # 46.

Even though I've been advocating English over Denmon, and have expressed my doubts about Denmon succeeding in the NBA in the last few posts, I'd definitely be excited to see him get drafted by the Wizards with the 46th pick. Gotta love the low turnovers and awesome free throw percentage. That's something you always want.

And yeah, I kinda agree about age doing Kimmie in. If he does end up going undrafted, I really really reallllly hope the Wizards bring him in regardless. He might not have the high upside as some of the other guys available in the 2nd round, but he is a consummate professional with incredible passion for the game and a very high basketball IQ, along with a work ethic to die for. And he's a great follow on twitter (@Englishscope24). He'd be a coach on the floor for us. An unbelievable asset. Fingers crossed.

[Nivek]

I think Denmon's shooting is a legit NBA skill. There's a role for him as an off-the-bench instant offense type.

[rockymac52]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZy-OitgBmw

He's VERY well-spoken for a college basketball player. VERY. He is truly a student of the game, and it shows. He knows what he's talking about, and he knows how to react in every situation as both a player and a leader.

Alright I'll give it a rest with my Mizzou guys for now, unless anyone else has any questions or comments.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

ccj, you had mentioned earlier a prospect who is a really good 3 pt shooter.

Kevin and ccj, among your favorite players, who are the best 3 pt shooters?

John Shurna, Northwestern, 6'9" 215. Kid looks like the guy who played Shaggy in the Scooby Doo movie. Shoots the three like Novak but is far more athletic. I didn't see him play, but he's survived four years of Big Ten ball and is much tougher than he looks. Can he defend? Who cares! He can shoot it and he can score on a team with Wall at PG. Shurna late in round 2 is a pick I would love to see.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joh ... 726/stats/

MY FAVORITE 3 PT SHOOTERS

Damian Lillard and John Jenkins are beyond good three point shooters. They're killers, but Jenkins lacks athleticism. Lillard is smallish, but will be a very good NBA player, no doubt about it.

Denmon is tiny but he along with Lillard and Jenkins is among the best in colleges. Those three will score a ton of threes in the NBA, (unless Denmon doesn't get drafted and he ends up in Europe.)

Kevin Murphy and Terrence Ross are protypical wings with size and three point range. I think they are scorer shooters and not pure like the guys above.

Jeremy Lamb has ideal length and a SWEET shot, but dude's got some Nick Young in him. What am I missing on why J Lamb is not more prolific? Lamb would be the top guy for the Wizards if not for this past season.

Doron Lamb is a terrific shooter. I think he's another guy who might be a pick of the Wizards. I'm leery because he's both young and small.

A guy who might be a surprisingly good player is William Buford, of Ohio State. He hits the three and he is both a good defender and a very good passer.



Team kind of guy, and a logical late round two pick for the Wizards.

I do not like a lot about Austin Rivers. He doesn't defend well and he turns it over. He is a bit smallish for a SG, his NBA position. He is overrated IMO because of his dad. THAT SAID, the kid can shoot the heck out of a three point shot and he's got bouncy athleticism.

Harrison Barnes is not a volume three point shooter. He reminds me of Jarvis Hayes.

Hollis Thompson out of Georgetown can stroke the three, but he doesn't do much else. Among SF and SF/PFs, I don't trust Jeffrey Taylor's three point shooting, but I think he's athletic and will make them in the pros.

The best guy didn't declare: Doug McDermott. I truly believe he could have been a lottery pick this season. Doug McDermott is just a very good player who has no weakness offensively. He's a terrific shooter.

[7-Day Dray]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZy-OitgBmw

He's VERY well-spoken for a college basketball player. VERY. He is truly a student of the game, and it shows. He knows what he's talking about, and he knows how to react in every situation as both a player and a leader.

Alright I'll give it a rest with my Mizzou guys for now, unless anyone else has any questions or comments.

^What do you think about Ricardo Ratliffe?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

rocky, after reading what you wrote about his age and the inside connection, I don't think Kim English is the best way to go.

I would rate a lot of guys higher even in round two. Buford and any of the other guys I mentioned above would make sense.

I would even draft weed head Terrell Stoglin before English. Little guys like him create spacing and they are mad quick. English is going to be not as good as Mo Almond and a bunch of seasoned guys who are tougher, stronger, as athletic or more.

A guy like Buford offers playmaking with spot up shooting. Barton is going to be a steal in round two. Jenkins hardly hits net when his shot goes through.

I like them ahead of English, but I know of English's heart and hustle. We will see.

[rockymac52]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZy-OitgBmw

He's VERY well-spoken for a college basketball player. VERY. He is truly a student of the game, and it shows. He knows what he's talking about, and he knows how to react in every situation as both a player and a leader.

Alright I'll give it a rest with my Mizzou guys for now, unless anyone else has any questions or comments.

^What do you think about Ricardo Ratliffe?

I like Ratliffe a lot actually. Given our plethora of bigs at the moment, however, I don't see the point of the Wizards drafting him.

He's a little undersized for the NBA, but he is very well built, and I don't think he will have any problem playing the 4 in the NBA. Rebounding will likely be a relative weakness for him. His best asset is his close range shot. His incredibly high FG% is no fluke. Whenever he gets the ball within 5 feet of the basket, it's almost a guaranteed bucket. His offensive rebounds often come on those rare occasions where he misses his shot in the first place. He kind of reminds me of Antawn Jamison in the sense that he has an unconventional way of scoring in the low post. I'm not comparing him to Jamison as a player though, because they are very different. What I'm talking about is the way he shoots the ball. Remember Jamison's scoop shots? Those shots that didn't even look like shots, and always looked ugly, but always seemed to go in. That's what Ratliffe does. He has a very quick release when he gets the ball near the basket, and he has several post moves that get him great looks at the rim. He's very good at using the size that he does have and positioning himself to get basically wide open looks from within 3 feet. The way he shoots it, it's like it can't even be defended, and when he makes almost 70% of them, that's a very good thing.

I think a team should take a chance on him in the mid-late 2nd round this year. I could see him getting a few minutes in somebody's rotation this season, and possibly establishing himself as a decent option off the bench.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Celtics trading the #1 (Joe Barry Carroll) for the #3 (Kevin McHale) and Robert Parish

That was Lufthansa Airlines/Brinks Armored car robbery, monte.

If I were a GM and somebody loved Andre Drummond; I would turn trade him for the combo of Zeller, Crowder, and/or Barton.

[rockymac52]

rocky, after reading what you wrote about his age and the inside connection, I don't think Kim English is the best way to go.

I would rate a lot of guys higher even in round two. Buford and any of the other guys I mentioned above would make sense.

I would even draft weed head Terrell Stoglin before English. Little guys like him create spacing and they are mad quick. English is going to be not as good as Mo Almond and a bunch of seasoned guys who are tougher, stronger, as athletic or more.

A guy like Buford offers playmaking with spot up shooting. Barton is going to be a steal in round two. Jenkins hardly hits net when his shot goes through.

I like them ahead of English, but I know of English's heart and hustle. We will see.

I completely understand, and probably agree. There's a ton of guys who are simply more skilled basketball players, who are younger, and have more upside. But like you said, his heart and hustle might be all that he needs. He honestly defines the phrase "student of the game". His basketball IQ is off the charts. I'm talking Shane Battier-esque. I could very well see him going undrafted but then sticking with a team because of how prepared and professional he is. Hopefully it's the Wizards that snatch him up.