Offseason Plan

Post #701 » by **nate33** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 8:48 pm

barelyawake wrote:As a final period on the (started years ago and ongoing) leadership doesn’t matter/players are only interchangeable stat-makers argument, I’d like to point to Iggy, Haslem (not that Butler needed help in the leadership dept) and Horford (the guy who stats said was “done” seven or so years ago). The more you know…

How did that work out for Rajon Rondo (age 35, played in LA and Clev)?
Or Dwight Howard (age 36, played in LA)?
Or Paul Millsapp (age 36, played for BRK and PHI. Played 6 minutes in the playoffs.)?
Or Goran Dragic (age 36, played for TOR and BRK. Played 80 minutes in the playoffs.)?

It's easy to cherry pick the successful examples. But sometimes, old players are just old and can't contribute.

It's also important to note the selection bias. Good old players with good leadership will choose to play with teams that have title aspirations because they want a ring. It's not the vet leader that makes the contender, it's the contender who attracts the vet leader.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #702 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 9:04 pm

Doc Rivers sucks. Paul Reed and Paul Millsap should have been used more.

barelyawake · Post #703 » by **barelyawake** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 9:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
barelyawake wrote:As a final period on the (started years ago and ongoing) leadership doesn’t matter/players are only interchangeable stat-makers argument, I’d like to point to Iggy, Haslem (not that Butler needed help in the leadership dept) and Horford (the guy who stats said was “done” seven or so years ago). The more you know…

How did that work out for Rajon Rondo (age 35, played in LA and Clev)?
Or Dwight Howard (age 36, played in LA)?
Or Paul Millsapp (age 36, played for BRK and PHI. Played 6 minutes in the playoffs.)?
Or Goran Dragic (age 36, played for TOR and BRK. Played 80 minutes in the playoffs.)?

It's easy to cherry pick the successful examples. But sometimes, old players are just old and can't contribute.

It's also important to note the selection bias. Good old players with good leadership will choose to play with teams that have title aspirations because they want a ring. It's not the vet leader that makes the contender, it's the contender who attracts the vet leader.

You listed Dwight Howard as a leader? I would say the exact opposite. And I didn’t cherry pick, I have read specific things those three players did THIS YEAR to help their teams be better teams. If you look deeper into those three players and how their teams operated with them and without them, I think you’ll see.

Anyway Nate, I’m never going to convince you. Believe what you will.

payitforward · Post #704 » by **payitforward** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:23 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:There is one generational defender in the draft and it's Sochan. I think he is Looney/Covington very quickly, with a Jonathan Issac/Draymond/Horford type upside in a few years.

Draft Sochan, trade Rui + KCP or Kuz + Ish for Brogdan (Prefer the latter package for shooting/fit), bring back Otto

Brogdan / Sato
Beal / Kispert
Deni / KCP
Rui / Otto / Sochan
KP / Gafford / Sochan

Back when I was good ...

I remember Looney came out of Milwaukee HS the same year as Diamond Stone (Terp bust) and Henry Ellenson (Marquette, had a cup of coffee in the NBA). I wanted the Wizards to draft Looney.

You & I were talking up Looney all the way through the run up to that draft (2015). We also liked Bobby Portis but assumed he would not fall to us at #19 (our pick that year).

In the end we traded up to take Oubre, while Portis fell all the way to 22, & Looney was taken with the 30th pick (I think -- haven't bothered to check any of this, but it's not the kind of thing I usually forget).

There was some concern that Looney had hip problems, but he has been quite durable & a terrific player.

I just took a minute to refresh my memory about that draft: it's interesting: of the 2d half of R1, the players taken from 16-30, only half are still in the league. & 1/2 of the next 16 (the first 16 of R2 are in the league, & some have been outstanding.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #705 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 11:45 pm

I have always thought that players number 15 through 45 Are of the same caliber. You can usually find three or four undrafted free agents that are as good as anyone drafted in the last half of round one.

Kofi Cockburn, Johnny Juzang, Ron Harper Jr., Jake Laravia all can hoop. EJ Liddell will outperform a couple lottery picks.

Trevion Williams and Alondes Williams will be NBA contributing players next season.

I will be surprised but not stunned if Eric Ayala makes an NBA roster.

Frichuela · Post #706 » by **Frichuela** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:23 pm

Any views on the Larkin rumors? Tommy and his love for midget PGs continue...

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267326/Wizards-Showed-Interest-In-Shane-Larkin

payitforward · Post #707 » by **payitforward** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:14 pm

Shane Larkin is small enough that he might be able to escape.

NatP4 · Post #708 » by **NatP4** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:18 pm

Frichuela wrote:Any views on the Larkin rumors? Tommy and his love for midget PGs continue...

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267326/Wizards-Showed-Interest-In-Shane-Larkin

Larkin was a good defender in the NBA, and has really good numbers in Europe over the last 5 or so years. Maybe he’s developed the offensive side of his game.

It wouldn’t hurt to add him for the minimum or the BAE.

bubba hotep · Post #709 » by **bubba hotep** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:55 pm

https://sportando.basketball/en/shane-larkin-re-signs-with-anadolu-efes/

Re-signed with Anodolu Efes

NatP4 · Post #710 » by **NatP4** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:15 am

bubba hotep wrote:https://sportando.basketball/en/shane-larkin-re-signs-with-anadolu-efes/

Re-signed with Anodolu Efes

There is a NBA-opt out in the contract.

bubba hotep · Post #711 » by **bubba hotep** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:18 am

Ah, didn't know that. Interesting

barelyawake · Post #712 » by **barelyawake** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:25 am

Iggy the assistant coach. All I’m sayin’. Watch the game again and see when, where and to whom Iggy speaks throughout the game.

FAH1223 · Post #713 » by **FAH1223** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:49 pm

Read on Twitter

payitforward · Post #714 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:44 am

Uh oh.... We've traded our R1 pick I fear.

DCZards · Post #715 » by **DCZards** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:03 am

payitforward wrote:Uh oh.... We've traded our R1 pick I fear.

Nah...that kind of stuff gets leaked well before a press confab.

Gig18 · Post #716 » by **Gig18** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:23 am

FAH1223 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Coming on the heels of Bradley saying he had reached a decision but wasn't going to release the info, could be that Tommy's going to announce his signing the new contract...

FAH1223 · Post #717 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:15 pm

Sato going back to Europe.

Delon Wright is my prime target as a veteran stopgap

payitforward · Post #718 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:39 pm

Why? He's expensive, & he just extends the illusion that this team can be good without an extensive rebuild.

FAH1223 · Post #719 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:57 pm

payitforward wrote:Why? He's expensive, & he just extends the illusion that this team can be good without an extensive rebuild.

With so few teams with cap room, I don't think he's going to be expensive at all.

And even if we draft a young guard, need a good vet who plays D.

And they clearly ain't 'rebuilding'

Rebuilding happened when Tommy took over in 2019 and completely changed the roster.

DCZards · Post #720 » by **DCZards** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:19 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Sato going back to Europe.

Delon Wright is my prime target as a veteran stopgap

Wright's on my short list as wel as a short-term solution while the Zards find and groom a young PG. Good size, excellent defender, experienced, probably not going to cost a ton.