2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[nate33]

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Not mentioned, Ace doesn't pass the ball, he could be the new Jordan Poole, but a SF.

A small-forward sized Jordan Poole who plays defense is a good player.

[closg00]

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Not mentioned, Ace doesn't pass the ball, he could be the new Jordan Poole, but a SF.

A small-forward sized Jordan Poole who plays defense is a good player.

Absolutely, the Tweet was about his flaws though

[NatP4]

Not mentioned, Ace doesn't pass the ball, he could be the new Jordan Poole, but a SF.

He actually does pass, he was just passing to guys who bricked layups, missed 3s or better yet turned down open shots to commit turnovers when they tried to dribble. It was embarassing.

It can’t be overstated just how awful that Rutgers roster was. After Harper&Bailey, five other guys played 500+ minutes:

G Jeremiah Williams: 51% TS 1.0 BPM
C Lathan Sommerville: 59% TS 1.0 BPM
G Jamichael Davis: 45% TS 2.0 BPM
G Jordan Dercack: 51% TS 1.2 BPM
F Zach Martini: 59% TS 1.6 BPM

G Dylan Harper 58% TS 9.2 BPM
F Ace Bailey 53% TS 4.5 BPM

You would expect that roster to win 15 games.

[doclinkin]

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Not mentioned, Ace doesn't pass the ball, he could be the new Jordan Poole, but a SF.

A small-forward sized Jordan Poole who plays defense is a good player.

Precisely this. We need an omega level scorer who has the ability to finish plays against the toughest defense. If that player can also be a difference maker at the other end, muy bueno.

The vision is Ace eventually taking over for Poole as a 6’9” shooting guard. The counter argument is that he doesn’t dribble or pass like a guard. But we have dribblers and passers at every other position. Including 4/5 with Sarr.

Ace is nimble enough to challenge 1-4 on defense. And stifle players. Playing both big for his lankiness and quick for his height. Yes he ball watches. He has that Rui thing where he can lock on in man defense but loses track on help. He can be backdoored. Misdirected.

So the question is: Can he be coached. And can we put a defensive captain behind him to call out assignments. (Why I want Sorber/CMB lower down).

Because Poole is an undersized gunner. But an upsized gunner who can cover his man is a nice weapon to have. Picture the length when we swap Poole out for a face up attacker with the standing reach of a power forward.

Now imagine that with 7’6” wingspan Sorber at center. And Sarr as the roaming help defender at PF. Bilal/George in the mix at wing. Bub at PG. All Smothering the perimeter. Rebounding in the midrange. Any player 1-4 able to initiate the break or catch the outlet from Sorber.

[tontoz]

So the question is: Can he be coached.

That is the key question. Based on what i saw the answer is yes.

I was out on him early in the season, at one point saying he was out of my top 5. Then i saw him make several changes to his game which told me he is coachable.

in the last few games he clearly shut it down a bit, but in the middle of the season he showed me enough that i have him at 3.

The problem with Poole is that he is a pg, therefore he ends up with the ball in his hands more than is ideal. If he was a forward his usage would go down and his efficiency would go up.

[payitforward]

Right. After the fact reveal. Bub I recall as a ninja stealth pick. With info coming that they had him in late. His interview sealed it. They traded Deni hours later.

My recollection is quite different. I think we were all pretty clear that they were very interested in Bub, & - as zards mentioned - the kid was also in the news as moving up draft boards.

Is my recollection accurate? No idea.....

[closg00]

Bleacher Report has Tre and Ace falling to us in their latest mock.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25206366-2025-nba-mock-draft-updated-predictions-after-desmond-bane-trade

It could workout this way, Utah had Fears in for a 2nd workout and Charlotte wants off Mark Williams. I wonder if the Bailey camp is warning the teams he doesn't want to go to.

[payitforward]

Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

The other guy who doesn't interest me much is Tre Johnson. Yes, he shoots the 3 at a high level. But... that's it.

If Maluach isn't there at 6, & assuming Edgecombe is gone, I hope we trade down & get an extra pick. There's a whole lot of talent in this draft, & talent is what we need.

If we came out of R1 with Essengue, Jase Richardson, & Drake Powell, I'd be ecstatic. If Queen is in that R1 haul, great! Sorber? You bet. Beringer? He looks good too!

But you could name 3 others who would elicit the same response from me. & if we followed that up with Hansen Yang in R2 & Mark Sears undrafted.... all I could say would be "wow!"

We are still in the early stages of this rebuild. There are only 6 guys on this team that matter -- that have a chance at being part of the core of a rebuilt Washington Wizards -- Bilal, Bub, Sarr, George, Champagnie & Johnson. Maybe Colby Jones, but that's speculative -- & none of those guys, not a single one, has actually established himself as having actual plus value in the league.

Plus, for better or worse, not all of them are going to work out.

In short, this is a long process, & we've just gotten started. We need as many rookies as we can accommodate. & you know what? We can accommodate as many as we can get.

[AFM]

Yeah agreed. I am starting to sour on him. He is not nearly the level of prospect that should be dictating where he gets to play. Also what that one executive said about him possibly "being out of the league in 5 years" is scary, no?

[gesa2]

Other than your belief in Maluach I agree with all you’ve said PIF.

[closg00]

OT trip down draft history lane, when you get to the Wizards, recall that Jaylen Williams had supporters here. Lots of wincing going-though the teams.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25203846-re-drafting-every-teams-worst-nba-draft-pick-over-last-decade

[nate33]

Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

The other guy who doesn't interest me much is Tre Johnson. Yes, he shoots the 3 at a high level. But... that's it.

If Maluach isn't there at 6, & assuming Edgecombe is gone, I hope we trade down & get an extra pick. There's a whole lot of talent in this draft, & talent is what we need.

If we came out of R1 with Essengue, Jase Richardson, & Drake Powell, I'd be ecstatic. If Queen is in that R1 haul, great! Sorber? You bet. Beringer? He looks good too!

But you could name 3 others who would elicit the same response from me. & if we followed that up with Hansen Yang in R2 & Mark Sears undrafted.... all I could say would be "wow!"

We are still in the early stages of this rebuild. There are only 6 guys on this team that matter -- that have a chance at being part of the core of a rebuilt Washington Wizards -- Bilal, Bub, Sarr, George, Champagnie & Johnson. Maybe Colby Jones, but that's speculative -- & none of those guys, not a single one, has actually established himself as having actual plus value in the league.

Plus, for better or worse, not all of them are going to work out.

In short, this is a long process, & we've just gotten started. We need as many rookies as we can accommodate. & you know what? We can accommodate as many as we can get.

I could go either way on this.

On the one hand, there's everything you just said.

On the other hand, the fact that everyone is now so down on Bailey and is giving him a lot of criticism for being a primidone with a bad work ethic might help motivate Bailey to prove everyone wrong. Dynamics like this can make a guy suddenly become very "coachable". He's a young man who may be listening to the wrong advisors. Young people can learn from their mistakes.

I don't think I'd trade anything more than a couple of SRP's to move up to get him, but if he is still there at #6, I think I'd make the gamble.

[tontoz]

Does anyone here care about Sarr refusing to work out for Atlanta?

Does anyone in Atlanta care about Jalen Johnson quiting Duke in the middle of the season?

I seriously doubt it.

[payitforward]

Other than your belief in Maluach I agree with all you’ve said PIF.

"Belief' is a bit too strong -- he is simply the only guy I can imagine being there at 6 who looks to me like he has a solid chance to work out at a high level.

[Dat2U]

Some of my best posts of all time have been lost due to realgm timing out on my phone.

[closg00]

Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

The other guy who doesn't interest me much is Tre Johnson. Yes, he shoots the 3 at a high level. But... that's it.

If Maluach isn't there at 6, & assuming Edgecombe is gone, I hope we trade down & get an extra pick. There's a whole lot of talent in this draft, & talent is what we need.

If we came out of R1 with Essengue, Jase Richardson, & Drake Powell, I'd be ecstatic. If Queen is in that R1 haul, great! Sorber? You bet. Beringer? He looks good too!

But you could name 3 others who would elicit the same response from me. & if we followed that up with Hansen Yang in R2 & Mark Sears undrafted.... all I could say would be "wow!"

We are still in the early stages of this rebuild. There are only 6 guys on this team that matter -- that have a chance at being part of the core of a rebuilt Washington Wizards -- Bilal, Bub, Sarr, George, Champagnie & Johnson. Maybe Colby Jones, but that's speculative -- & none of those guys, not a single one, has actually established himself as having actual plus value in the league.

Plus, for better or worse, not all of them are going to work out.

In short, this is a long process, & we've just gotten started. We need as many rookies as we can accommodate. & you know what? We can accommodate as many as we can get.

I could go either way on this.

On the one hand, there's everything you just said.

On the other hand, the fact that everyone is now so down on Bailey and is giving him a lot of criticism for being a primidone with a bad work ethic might help motivate Bailey to prove everyone wrong. Dynamics like this can make a guy suddenly become very "coachable". He's a young man who may be listening to the wrong advisors. Young people can learn from their mistakes.

I don't think I'd trade anything more than a couple of SRP's to move up to get him, but if he is still there at #6, I think I'd make the gamble.

Weighing on my mind is the temperament/personalities of the young players the FO has carefully selected, and which prospects would fit or not fit in with this group, Ace is the only one I am not feeling the best about in this area of consideration, talent and upside aside. The flip side is this kind of thinking also gets you a Johny Davis.

VJ +
Kon +
Ace ?
Johnson+
Fears +
Maluach +
Queen +

[doclinkin]

Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

Show me a quote where the kid says any of this.

He has an agent who is brand new to the business. Has no other clients. That’s who is pulling this play.

Check interviews with Ace throughout the season. Or with his coaches. He’s talented and tough and wants the ball. But he played well off of Harper. Played in the front court though it’s not his game. Is genuine and goofy but in post game interviews was not blaming teammates etc. Despite having no team around him.

Alex Sarrs team did the same thing. If we got chased away by that supposed attitude problem we would have missed out on a solid thoughtful quality human being. For the sole reason that agents are @ssholes.

Brooklyn is a bigger market. An agent gets a cut off all the off court deals. If he can steer the kid there he makes more money. Has nothing to do with if the kid can play ball.

Like him on his stats or not. But this kind of smear campaign tends to be the reason why Paul Pierce and Caron Butler slide in the draft. And teams who whiff on them regret it.

[doclinkin]

To me it reads as front offices being huffy about an agent who doesn’t play the game the way they like. The kid is not responsible for his agents strategy. You trust your representatives to have your best interest at heart. He’s not a businessman. He’s one of the youngest kids in the draft.

This narrative is overblown. If the FO likes him and he’s there at 6, they take him and coach him up.

[payitforward]

Ace Bailey is extremely talented - no one questions that. But I have no interest in him.

Spoiler:

Talented as he is, his numbers don't really reflect that talent. &, above all, the attitude of his camp -- that they want guarantees about playing time & starting -- are absolutely ridiculous. Do you see Cooper Flagg saying dumb stuff like that? No. I want nothing to do with Ace.

The other guy who doesn't interest me much is Tre Johnson. Yes, he shoots the 3 at a high level. But... that's it.

If Maluach isn't there at 6, & assuming Edgecombe is gone, I hope we trade down & get an extra pick. There's a whole lot of talent in this draft, & talent is what we need.

If we came out of R1 with Essengue, Jase Richardson, & Drake Powell, I'd be ecstatic. If Queen is in that R1 haul, great! Sorber? You bet. Beringer? He looks good too!

But you could name 3 others who would elicit the same response from me. & if we followed that up with Hansen Yang in R2 & Mark Sears undrafted.... all I could say would be "wow!"

We are still in the early stages of this rebuild. There are only 6 guys on this team that matter -- that have a chance at being part of the core of a rebuilt Washington Wizards -- Bilal, Bub, Sarr, George, Champagnie & Johnson. Maybe Colby Jones, but that's speculative -- & none of those guys, not a single one, has actually established himself as having actual plus value in the league.

Plus, for better or worse, not all of them are going to work out.

In short, this is a long process, & we've just gotten started. We need as many rookies as we can accommodate. & you know what? We can accommodate as many as we can get

.

I could go either way on this.

On the one hand, there's everything you just said.

On the other hand, the fact that everyone is now so down on Bailey and is giving him a lot of criticism for being a primidone with a bad work ethic might help motivate Bailey to prove everyone wrong. Dynamics like this can make a guy suddenly become very "coachable". He's a young man who may be listening to the wrong advisors. Young people can learn from their mistakes.

I don't think I'd trade anything more than a couple of SRP's to move up to get him, but if he is still there at #6, I think I'd make the gamble.

This is fair, nate -- & much more balanced than my hyperbolic tirade. But... I'd like to hear it from him one day soon -- & so far we haven't. That said, I hope we do, & wherever he lands I hope Ace Bailey fulfills the promise of his gifts.

[tontoz]

Some of my best posts of all time have been lost due to realgm timing out on my phone.

Copy them before you hit submit.