2012 NBA Draft

rockymac52 · Post #721 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Chad Ford chat today: "I think that hype has actually cooled down a bit. Don't get me wrong, scouts think it's a good draft. Anthony Davis has lived up to expectations, though scouts don't quite see him in the same group as a Dwight Howard or Derrick Rose franchise changer. The next tier with Andre Drummond, Harrison Barnes, Thomas Robinson and Perry Jones III are all super talented, but all have weaknesses that could keep them from being All-Stars some day. After that, there's talent, but I actually think the 2011 Draft may have gone a little deeper."

Please tell me I'm interpreting that last sentence incorrectly. Please. Is he just saying that in 2011 there were more guys in the late 1st round or even the 2nd that were decent and this year there aren't as many? I'm confused.

rockymac52 · Post #722 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Recently I've been thinking if we don't end up with the number 1 pick (Davis), we should trade down.

I like Drummond, Barnes, Robinson, and the other names at the top of the board, and would be perfectly happy if we just kept our pick and took one of them, but I think once you get past Davis there's a group of about 6 or 7 players that are all pretty good and each have their own issues. Simply put, I'm not convinced there's a clear #2 in this draft (although Drummond seems to be the favorite), and I think the guys expected to be taken with picks 2 through 7 are all pretty equal. I like some more than others, and inevitably some WILL be better than others, but at the end of the day if we somehow ended up with the 7th overall pick, I wouldn't be that upset, because I'd know there would be at least one or two players available at that pick that I'd be happy taking. And because those players are all relatively equal in my mind, it's possible the guy we would have taken at #2 or #3 ends up still being on the board at #6 or #7.

Let's say we get the #3 pick. What I'm proposing is attempting to trade that pick for something like the 7th pick and a future 1st, or another 2012 1st, or a current player with value.

rockymac52 · Post #723 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 pm

I was out of the country when this happened, so it's new to me, but this is not good news for us.

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2012/1/ ... ext-season

Has there since been any more information about this? Did this even make headlines?

llcc25 · Post #724 » by **llcc25** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:27 am

If you catch the qualifier, he states as of now, he plans on returning. No biggie. He can easily change his mind before its actually time to decide. Either way it'll make Davis a clear cut #1 if he wasn't already.

7-Day Dray · Post #725 » by **7-Day Dray** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:49 am

rockymac52 wrote:I was out of the country when this happened, so it's new to me, but this is not good news for us.

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2012/1/ ... ext-season

Has there since been any more information about this? Did this even make headlines?

I really doubt he returns in the end. Of course he's not going to say he's seriously considering enter the draft right now since the season is still going on. Many prospects have said that they would return while the season was still going on. Tristan Thompson did this last year. So I wouldn't worry about it too much yet.

REDardWIZskin · Post #726 » by **REDardWIZskin** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:26 pm

Drummond should return to school from what i've seen of him this yr. He is physically superior than 90% of his opponents but he doesn't dominate them like he should. I saw him take 2 fadeaway jumpers against cincy. He will probably go anyway since his potential is so high.

theboomking · Post #727 » by **theboomking** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:58 pm

REDardWIZskin wrote:Drummond should return to school from what i've seen of him this yr. He is physically superior than 90% of his opponents but he doesn't dominate them like he should. I saw him take 2 fadeaway jumpers against cincy. He will probably go anyway since his potential is so high.

Drummond put up 4 points, 6 rebounds, and one block in 28 minutes, in a 4 point loss to Cincinnati last night. Terrible.

In any case, I've been thinking that as much as all of us are focused on the 2012 draft, that we are probably a year behind OKC in our rebuild.

How much of a difference is anyone, outside of Anthony Davis, going to make as a rookie when it comes to wins and losses? If we add Robinson, PJIII, Drummond, Sullinger, Lamb, Gilchrist, Barnes, etc, we will likely still be terrible, unless we also add some major pieces throught FA or trade avenues. This team likely will be adding another two top 10 draft picks to this team. 2012. 2013.

The Consiglieri · Post #728 » by **The Consiglieri** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:10 pm

Of course. I thought the turn around would be a bit faster, I was thinking this would be a 28-34 win team this year if there'd been no lockout, when clearly it appears to be more like a 15-20 win team, but I didnt think they'd be contending till '13-'14, with '12-'13 being the dream of nearly getting the 8 seed with a 35-40 win year. They're slower than I thought because they got nothing in 2009, and 2010 didn't provide as much help as I'd hoped, and we ended up slipping down the stretch and screwing our draft position as well as the lottery screwing it come draft day, i think these things all hurt us but it's fine, I want the tank to be running beautifully until the trade deadline of 2013-2014. We may end up losing John Wall, but barring getting Davis, I also think it's unlikely this team wins more than 32-36 games in 2012-2013.

fishercob · Post #729 » by **fishercob** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:48 pm

theboomking wrote:
REDardWIZskin wrote:Drummond should return to school from what i've seen of him this yr. He is physically superior than 90% of his opponents but he doesn't dominate them like he should. I saw him take 2 fadeaway jumpers against cincy. He will probably go anyway since his potential is so high.

Drummond put up 4 points, 6 rebounds, and one block in 28 minutes, in a 4 point loss to Cincinnati last night. Terrible.

In any case, I've been thinking that as much as all of us are focused on the 2012 draft, that we are probably a year behind OKC in our rebuild.

How much of a difference is anyone, outside of Anthony Davis, going to make as a rookie when it comes to wins and losses? If we add Robinson, PJIII, Drummond, Sullinger, Lamb, Gilchrist, Barnes, etc, we will likely still be terrible, unless we also add some major pieces throught FA or trade avenues. This team likely will be adding another two top 10 draft picks to this team. 2012. 2013.

OKC won 23 games Westbrook's rookie year. The following season, Durant took "the leap," and they drafted Harden. Then last year they added Perkins.

I'd be very surprised if the Wizards contended for a playoff spot next year. And that's fine. Adding a lotto pick in 2013 is a good thing.

The other thing to keep in mind is free agency. OKC didn't sign anyone of consequence. If we sign Eric Gordon this summer, or trade for like a scorer like Gallinari, things may go faster. I'm not advocating a specific course, I'm just saying we'll have multiple available avenues to add talent should we want to use them.

Post #730 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:07 pm

Yeah, no rookie is going to turn the Wiz into a playoff team by himself. As for Drummond, he's still the number 2 prospect. I was switching between the Cincy game and the Wiz game, and he really didn't play poorly last night. There's nothing he can do about his teammates not passing him the ball. As much as people love Lamb, ne never passes. As talented as Napier and Drummond are, they just don't pass the ball much - figuring they get extra points for the degree of difficulty on the shots they take. Btw, Napier is the next Lou Williams. Drummond won't be a super-high BBIQ guy, but he'll be a top defensive center in the NBA with the potential to develop into a very good offensive center.

fishercob · Post #731 » by **fishercob** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:13 pm

The thing that worries me about Drummond is that he seems to have yet to internalize how big and strong he is. He fades away or shoots short jumpers when he needs to be imposing his will on people because he's just a physical freak. He's actually not so dissimilar from a young Yao in that way. Yao was heavily criticized for his timidity and lack of a mean streak (not to mention being skinny). If Drummond can learn to play big, and strong, and mean.....look out.

Dat2U · Post #732 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:28 pm

It depends on who we get in the draft. If we land Davis, then I'm all for adding a number of solid vets to the mix to speed the rebuilding process along b/c we'd already have our 2 stars in place.

If we land a 2nd tier draft pick then a slower course for rebuilding may be needed because we still lack that 2nd star to pair with Wall. And at that point I would be aggressive pushing for conslidation of our assets

Either way, this shouldn't be a rebuild that takes beyond another 2 years. As for playoffs, 2013-14 should be the absolute goal no matter what.

llcc25 · Post #733 » by **llcc25** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Dat2U wrote:It depends on who we get in the draft. If we land Davis, then I'm all for adding a number of solid vets to the mix to speed the rebuilding process along b/c we'd already have our 2 stars in place.

If we land a 2nd tier draft pick then a slower course for rebuilding may be needed because we still lack that 2nd star to pair with Wall. And at that point I would be aggressive pushing for conslidation of our assets

Either way, this shouldn't be a rebuild that takes beyond another 2 years. As for playoffs, 2013-14 should be the absolute goal no matter what.

Let's not rush to judgement and already anoint Davis a star. He is very much a great prospect at this point and it will take him at least 2-3 years to be nba ready to man of position on nightly basis. He is not coming in like Blake griffin and Tim Duncan and we need to accept that fact. Bringing in Eric Gordon, on the other hand, you can make the statement that he would immediately be the 2nd star b/c he has proven it at this level being one of the best at his position.

Dat2U · Post #734 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:26 am

llcc25 wrote:Let's not rush to judgement and already anoint Davis a star. He is very much a great prospect at this point and it will take him at least 2-3 years to be nba ready to man of position on nightly basis. He is not coming in like Blake griffin and Tim Duncan and we need to accept that fact. Bringing in Eric Gordon, on the other hand, you can make the statement that he would immediately be the 2nd star b/c he has proven it at this level being one of the best at his position.

Sorry, but I'm ready to anoint Davis as a future star. And frankly to me he's clearly a better prospect than Griffin. I never seen a guy dominate defensively (especially a frosh) like Davis has. Griffin plays no defense whatsoever.

I know the Duncan comparisons make folks here uncomfortable, and he lacks the offensive polish that Duncan had in college but he's got the makings of a terrific post up & face up game as he gets stronger and gets more comfortable with hitting that 15-18 footer. I love the deameanor. I love the energy he plays with at both ends of the court. I love the high b-ball IQ he displays (look at how he's never in foul trouble).

Davis is a rare prospect.

And I wouldn't consider Eric Gordon a star. A potential all-star but he's not an elite player. Ideally I'd view him as more of a 3rd option or 3rd best player on a contender (like Harden) as opposed to 1st or 2nd option. Actually none of the SGs outside of Kobe, Dwyane or Manu could be really classified as star quality players.

tontoz · Post #735 » by **tontoz** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:52 am

I think Davis is clearly the top choice, a freak athlete with a motor and a clue. I don't see anyone else really in the conversation as the top pick.

fishercob · Post #736 » by **fishercob** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:54 am

FWIW, I could see Harden growing into a second or first option on a great team. He screams Ginobili. I wonder what having KD and now Westbrook maxed out means for OKC's plans for Harden. If they don't think they can afford to keep him, I wonder what they would trade him for.

llcc25 · Post #737 » by **llcc25** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:03 am

Dat2u - look I will agree he is a rare prospect and has more upside than griffin but in no way is he going to have the impact next year or year after that griffin or Duncan had their rookie year. Davis is still raw and learning to play the Pf/C position. He is still a year removed from high school and it will be at least 2-3 years before he can have that impact of putting up 20 pt/ 10 reb a night in NBA. He definitely has the goods to get there but it won't happen overnight. So yes, he has then potential makings of a future star but he won't be that in years 1 or 2 IMO. I doubt he will even win Roy his first year as there will be more nba ready players drafted later that will post better numbers initially.

And regarding Gordon, not being a star?!?! Dude averaged 22 pts in his 3rd year as 2nd option to griffin. After Kobe and wade, he is arguably the 3rd best sg in league and top 5 at worst. I'd classify anyone that is top 5 in their position as star quality so he fits this bill.

Dat2U · Post #738 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:11 am

fishercob wrote:FWIW, I could see Harden growing into a second or first option on a great team. He screams Ginobili. I wonder what having KD and now Westbrook maxed out means for OKC's plans for Harden. If they don't think they can afford to keep him, I wonder what they would trade him for.

I don't think Harden has the killer instinct to be a #1st option. Now he's absolutely perfect as a 3rd option because of his willingness to defer, but I remember how he consistently disappeared in big games at Arizona because of his inability or refusal to be more aggressive.

Dat2U · Post #739 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:15 am

llcc25 wrote:Dat2u - look I will agree he is a rare prospect and has more upside than griffin but in no way is he going to have the impact next year or year after that griffin or Duncan had their rookie year. Davis is still raw and learning to play the Pf/C position. He is still a year removed from high school and it will be at least 2-3 years before he can have that impact of putting up 20 pt/ 10 reb a night in NBA. He definitely has the goods to get there but it won't happen overnight. So yes, he has then potential makings of a future star but he won't be that in years 1 or 2 IMO. I doubt he will even win Roy his first year as there will be more nba ready players drafted later that will post better numbers initially.

And regarding Gordon, not being a star?!?! Dude averaged 22 pts in his 3rd year as 2nd option to griffin. After Kobe and wade, he is arguably the 3rd best sg in league and top 5 at worst. I'd classify anyone that is top 5 in their position as star quality so he fits this bill.

Davis will have an immediate impact IMO. He may not average 20/10 coming out but I think he'll help a team win immediately because of his defensive ability and high IQ.

Gordon can certainly score but does he impact a team's win column? I'd say he's on par with a guy like Kevin Martin. Is Martin a guy you consider a star? I don't think so.

llcc25 · Post #740 » by **llcc25** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:46 am

Davis will have an immediate impact IMO. He may not average 20/10 coming out but I think he'll help a team win immediately because of his defensive ability and high IQ.

Gordon can certainly score but does he impact a team's win column? I'd say he's on par with a guy like Kevin Martin. Is Martin a guy you consider a star? I don't think so.[/quote]

I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that Davis will help the team win immediately. He still has a raw and unpolished low post game. You still have to remember that he was a 6'2" guard as a junior in high school and had a growth spurt of 8" that year. So he really has only been 6'10'-6'11 for 2-3 years. So he still has to fill out his frame and learn playing in the low post. Its one thing to dominate with his freakish athletic ability in college but its another thing to do it in the NBA. I still think there will be a learning curve first 2-3 years but if he develops, the sky is the limit, no doubt.

As to your Gordon response, all I can say is he is a top 5 SG. I think if you cast a vote of all GM's they would agree. There's a reason why he made the latest list of 20 for the USA olympic team. I didn't see Kevin Martin on that least or even mentioned as a possibility so that comparison is off. If I polled everyone on this board, about which SG they would be ok with giving max or close to max contract today (outside of kobe and wade of course) I think the consensus would be Gordon.