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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#721 » by hands11 » Mon May 20, 2013 4:00 am

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:I stand by my entire post, not just the part you clipped. Depends on the team and what they need. There is no consensus #1 in this draft.

And if what you say it is always true, then why did Drummunds go after Barnes and T Robinson. And why was Cousins drafted after Wesley Johnson and Evan Turner.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Noel is taken after one or more of Burke, Otto, and VO.


There were work ethic and attitude issues raised about Drummond and Cousins. (Those go beyond personality.) I haven't heard those concerns about Noel or McLemore.

The concerns about Cousins' attitude were obviously legit. I think the concerns about Drummond were overblown.


Work ethic and attitude aren't part of someones personality. What are they a part of then ?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#722 » by verbal8 » Mon May 20, 2013 12:40 pm

I think I may have found a rough comparable for Shabazz Muhammad.

Ruben Patterson. The main similarity is they are both 6'5" SFs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eru01.html

Muhammad's (FT and 3 pt) shooting stats look better, but were a bit of a surprise. Patterson did a little bit more across the board - rebs(slight) assists and steals. If Muhammad converts better inside and his shooting drops off a little, he might have a similar career path(25 mpg, slightly above average). The upside would be him continuing his improved shooting, while making those improvements which would make him a good starter(assuming defense and assists are decent).

I talk myself out of the poor 2pt FG%, the numbers that still scare me are the steals and assists. I think he belongs in the 1st round of this draft, just 8 is way too soon and I think he is a reach even in the top ten.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#723 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:04 pm

nate33 wrote:
thricethefun wrote:I would trade out of the top 3 if we won the lottery. Say if the Jazz wanted Burke, we could swap our top 3 pick for Kanter and their #14 pick.

That would be fabulous. We could give them Seraphin as ballast to match Kanter's salary. It would help them to replace Kanter, and it would prevent redundancy in our front court. At #14, we could draft McCollum if he slides, or maybe go with Schroeder or Caldwell-Pope. Or maybe even double down on young bigs and get Dieng or Adams.

It's really a dream scenario. We get a legit building block big man and add another backcourt player.


Yeah that would be a dream scenario, a great outcome to a potentially treacherous offseason.

But I don't think it's likely with McCollum in particular. I'm not really sold on Schroeder and Pope, though I'm definitely intrigued by Schroeder. I think McCollum will end up going fairly high because he's a good athlete with great skills and even better production (though against weak competition for the most part). He's this year's Damian Lillard. Such a gorgeous jumper and dribble pull up and some awesome handles.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he could end up being a better than Trey Burke because he's bigger and stronger, not as streaky of a shooter, has comparable handles, and is a more natural scorer that can get to the rim better when his shot is off.

Now that he's healthy and showing up in front of people's eyes agains, it's reminding people, "oh yeah, he's good." Reminding people he's a top ten pick, especially in a weak class. I think he's a viable alternative to Burke for teams, which could lessen the urgency to trade up for Burke.

Plus a team like Utah could use help at both PG and SG, and McLemore and Oladipo are top eight alternatives.

I also think that Utah might value Kanter a lot higher than people expect. The fans seem to be very high on him. Are they overvaluing him? Maybe. But I'm thinking it would take more than Trey Burke and Kevin Seraphin to get him and the 14th pick. I'd throw in Vesely, but I wouldn't want to pay more than that TBH. At that point I'd rather just keep the third pick and use it on Zeller, who I think could be as good, if not better than Kanter anyway. The 14th pick was the kicker that would make me do it.

Utah sends: One potentially good player, already mostly developed + a potential role player prospect
Washington sends: One good prospect + two potential role players

I do think a solid prospect will be there at 14. If not Schroeder, then I'd be OK with a Plumlee or Olynyk or Dieng or Adams at that spot. Karasev and Franklin would also be interesting.

But I think you could give up a little to move up a few places from 14 and get a much bigger return because there is a pretty good tier of players in the 8-12 range. Maybe Zeller does drop to 8ish. Maybe Bazz is sitting there at 10 or 11 or 12. At that point, I'd take the risk and move up because the upside would be so much higher to me than settling for an Adams, Plumlee, or Dieng.

Kanter + Bazz + someone like Archie Goodwin or Reggie Bullock in the second could really add some quality to the team.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#724 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:13 pm

DCZards wrote:
hands11 wrote:Personality, maturity, leadership. Those things all matter when it comes to finding player that can help lead your franchise in a new direction. That is what separates the top talent. And that is what a lot of teams will look for in a top 3 pick.


Teams may look for those things in players, but at the end of the day McLemore and Noel will get drafted ahead of more mature and personable guys like Porter and VO. Talent and potential trumps personality every time.


Not to mention any conclusions we draw about personality and other intangibles are just guesses. We can't really know much about intangibles from our vantage point.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#725 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:27 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:If I had to guess which player will be THE dominant player in this class I would say Victor Oladipo.

Athleticism and work ethic, as well as intelligence, are off the chart. I think he's going to score far better in the NBA than projected. Oladipo will become an all star IMO.


I could see him being the best player in the class. I could also see him being limited by his ball handling and being a somewhat disappointing role player.

It's not that big a stretch to say he could be the best in the class because Oladipo, Burke, and Zeller were arguably the best players in CBB. Unless you count want Olynyk and McCollum did in weak conferences that is.

His combine was incredible. He backed up a big time season with the most eye popping combine IMO, you can't ask for more. And you know his defense is going to be awesome. If he unlocks top notch scoring ability at the next level, then the sky is the limit for him. If he could be a Tony Allen or an Iman Shumpert with AS scoring ability, that's a franchise player who could become a top 3 SG with Beal and Harden. But are his handles and scoring ability good enough?

I can't get past how athletic he is. It blows me away. He's every bit the athlete McLemore is. Maybe even a little better since he's a lot heavier. With Noel looking so physically underdeveloped, I would seriously consider taking Oladipo first overall. If not first, I would probably take him second. I'm putting him over McLemore. He's only a year older than McLemore after all.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#726 » by nate33 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:37 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:I also think that Utah might value Kanter a lot higher than people expect. The fans seem to be very high on him. Are they overvaluing him? Maybe. But I'm thinking it would take more than Trey Burke and Kevin Seraphin to get him and the 14th pick. I'd throw in Vesely, but I wouldn't want to pay more than that TBH.

I consider Vesely to be negative value, or at best, his value is so negligible that he makes no difference whatsoever in Utah's evaluation of the trade. I agree that Utah values Kanter highly, perhaps to the point of overvaluation so they'd probably decline the trade. At best, they might do it if it was the #21 includeed rather than the #14. I'd probably still pull the trigger.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#727 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:44 pm

Dat2U wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Nivek wrote:Fan reactions are interesting. Folks are losing their minds over Barnes' playoff performance, and he hasn't even played all that well. In his 12 playoff games, he has 3-4 very good games, 3-4 very bad ones, and then ho-hum gamea. He played better in the post-season than he did in the regular season, but that's low bar. His regular season was the stuff of Omri Casspi.

Barnes' potential is obvious, but his platoff performance is being significantly overrated. And Muhammad doesn't look as good a prospect as Barnes did.


Yes, too much is probably being made of Barnes' playoff performance. But we did begin to get a glimpse of how good he could be. It wasn't Barnes' numbers that impressed me the most, it was things that aren't as easy to measure, including the emergence of a low-post offensive game, his rebounding, his solid D throughout the playoffs, and the steadiness and poise he diplayed in the biggest games of his young career.

As for comparisons with Shabazz, the main similarity is that both were the top players in their H.S. class, and both had decent, but less-than-stellar, college careers. (Although in Bazz's case it was only one season.) Now, like Barnes last year, Bazz is being seriously underrated and overlooked, imo. Call it the curse of being #1 coming out of high school.

Bazz has a more polished and ready-for-the-NBA offensive game than Barnes did as a soph. He also has an NBA body and his 6-6 measurement at the combine (which will probably be 6-7 in the next year or two) will enable him to play plenty of SF.

And EVERYONE raves about Bazz's motor, which is a skill that can't be coached. It's also something that often separates the great players from the average players. Bazz's motor and competitiveness was apparently on display during this week's combine.

Though his impressive raw offensive skills alone will result in Bazz being a top 10 pick, there are a LOT of areas where he needs to improve--ball handling, distributing the ball and being able to go to the right as well as he goes to the left, to name a few.

But all of the top players in the draft (most of whom are 19-21 years old and only played 1-2 years of college ball) have flaws and shortcomings. But most of these youngins' are going to get better. How much better is the question, and that often depends on their work ethic.

Barnes' coach, Mark Jackson, says what has impressed him most about Harrison is his work ethic. All reports indicate that Bazz has a similar work ethic.


So in other words, ignore the stats because he looks good to me and people say nice stuff about him. That young man is going places, lol!

Barnes had a meh season. He shot it a tad better than expected but he was a 5 option with minimal usage. Big whoop. He went to an ideal situation that could mask a lot of his deficiencies. Maybe with a little luck and hard work, he'll be the next Rick Fox or Mario Elie. No one ever said he wasn't going to be an NBA contributor. I and many other said he wasn't a star and wasn't worthy of a high lottery pick. I said he was a mid 1st rounder last year. I don't see anything that would make me go back and say I was wrong.


Barnes is going to end up being a lot better than most of that class. He wasn't a mid first round pick, and he doesn't look like he should have been after his rookie year. That claim is unjustifiable.

He looks like a rock solid SF in the mold of a Luol Deng and has surprised with how good he can look on D. We knew before the draft that the creative mid range game was there. We knew he had a pretty jumper with 3 ball range. We knew he could run and finish in transition. We knew he was an explosive leaper with a strong body and excellent size. He definitely was not a mid first rounder, and he probably should have been drafted a little higher than he was. He's not a superstar, but he's a good player who will probably end up being the second best player on a terrific GS team.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#728 » by Deeptu McPullup » Mon May 20, 2013 1:51 pm

The only way I'd see Utah trading Kanter is if they had decided that he and Favors can't work together long term and that would be a conclusion they'd be more likely to come to at some point next year rather than this summer. Otherwise, It's be very un-Jazzlike to just move Kanter right before they turn the team over to youth and get rid of the two veteran bigs. They've obviously not been trying to maximize Kanter and Favors' trade value so much as maximizing good habits, team success and similar Jazz friendly virtues.

Maybe they'd reconsider for the second or third pick. If they did, suffice to say I wouldn't be holding the deal up based on their stinginess to give us mid round picks. I'd take Kanter 1st in this draft and the years shaved off his rookie deal are offset by his having some seasoning and being ready to contribute sooner.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#729 » by nate33 » Mon May 20, 2013 1:55 pm

I'm not sure why anyone is pointing to Barnes as if he was such a big "I told you so". Barnes was drafted 7th in the draft. It's a pretty good bet that Davis, Beal and Drummond will be better. And it's 50/50 that Lillard, MKG and Waiters will be better. I wouldn't rule out Henson either.

Essentially, he was drafted 7th and he should have been drafted somewhere in the 4-8 range. Seems like the GM's pretty much got it right. Only one clearly inferior player was drafted ahead of him: Thomas Robinson.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#730 » by Dark Faze » Mon May 20, 2013 2:02 pm

A lot of guards are pretty bad their first year though, so Bazz does have that and the Howland factor working for him.

I think Zeller is the safest big man pick in the draft. Athleticism like that + good IQ can only turn out so bad, especially with his resume/advanced stats. I don't think the upside is great, but I think he's pretty safely going to be a 15 and 8 guy as a starter for a team. You could do a lot worse by reaching.

I like Olynyk, but purely on the basis of "lets not screw this up, lets get a contributer for 7 + years" I think Porter and Zeller are the best players in the draft.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#731 » by tontoz » Mon May 20, 2013 2:03 pm

Barnes' PER for his rookie year was 11.08. Deng's was 14.2 and he came out after his freshman year. Not really seeing the comparison there, especially since Deng was a reluctant 3 point shooter for his first 6 seasons.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#732 » by DCZards » Mon May 20, 2013 2:04 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm not sure why anyone is pointing to Barnes as if he was such a big "I told you so". Barnes was drafted 7th in the draft. It's a pretty good bet that Davis, Beal and Drummond will be better. And it's 50/50 that Lillard, MKG and Waiters will be better. I wouldn't rule out Henson either.

Essentially, he was drafted 7th and he should have been drafted somewhere in the 4-8 range. Seems like the GM's pretty much got it right. Only one clearly inferior player was drafted ahead of him: Thomas Robinson.


People are responding to the insistence of at least one poster that Barnes was (and continues to be) a mid-first round talent.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#733 » by stevemcqueen1 » Mon May 20, 2013 2:06 pm

Dat2U wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
AFM wrote:Shabazz as a poor man's Harden? Maybe. Right now that's a bit of a stretch. If you take away Harden's ability to pass and drive then yes.


He's got a very similar body to Harden.

Also worth pointing out that Harden had a very weak off hand and was totally dependent on going left too when he got drafted.

The playmaking and the demeanor are big differences. Bazz is an alpha scorer whereas Harden is fully capable of blending in and facilitating. Bazz has more of a front court mentality too, much more comfortable posting up and he likes to get into the paint as much as he can whereas Harden is much more of a true guard.

None of the comparisons are going to be clean. But there are a ton of similarities between Bazz and Harden.


I understand if none of the comparisons are perfect, but can we at least get in the same ballpark? Your Zeller comparisons are baffling. This is one is simply ridiculous.

The only similarities between Bazz and Harden are the fact they are black and played in the Pac-10.

If Bazz had half the dribble creation skills of Harden, I'd look at him a lot more favorably. They are not even in the same zip code. Bazz will never have those capabilities. You can polish and improve skill over time, but you can't build something you don't have the tools for. Bazz is a one/two dribble guy whose forced to take a lot of jumpers because he can't get to the rim off the bounce effectively in college. Harden basically has PG type handles and gets in the lane at will.


You're vastly overrating Harden's ball handling ability when he came out of college. It was a universally noted weakness. And he was totally left hand dominant. It wasn't until his third season in the NBA he demonstrated that elite creative ability. And you're underrating Muhammad's ability to score off the bounce. His offhand is clearly weak, but he's actually pretty creative with his dominant hand and does a nice job getting into the paint and scoring over multiple defenders, particularly with that awesome floater game. He's an off the ball player by nature, but he does put the ball on the floor and score.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#734 » by FAH1223 » Mon May 20, 2013 2:26 pm

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/nba/clevel ... eedID=3725

When asked to assess the 2013 NBA Draft, one general manager said he liked it just fine. He just wouldn’t want to possess the first or second pick.

That particular GM doesn’t need to worry. His team made the playoffs and has no chance of winning Tuesday night’s draft lottery.

Everyone else … well, they too may be praying to end the evening with the rally cry of, “We’re No. 3!”

Not that finishing first is a nightmare. You can always trade the pick.

Or you can keep it and draft a guy who hasn’t played since February and isn’t expected to take the court again until around Christmas.

Yes, Kentucky center Nerlens Noel appears to be the biggest prize. He once blocked 12 shots in a game. Of course, he also scored 0 points in that game, but hey, let’s not get picky.

We’re only talking about a guy who’s supposed to help change the course of your crummy franchise.

Oh, the reason for the delayed start to Noel’s pro career? He underwent surgery for a torn ACL

Is Noel the next Kwame Brown? We don’t know.

Is he the next Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? We don’t know that, either, but probably not.

Like every other prospect in this draft, Noel is pretty much a mystery. We know he can block shots at the collegiate level. But that’s about all we know.

Still, that’s gotta be worth something, right? Right.

Then again, when a scouting report reads like that, usually the guy is considered a top-10 pick -- not necessarily the No. 1 pick. More like 5, 7 or 9.

Anyway, Noel has enough gifts (namely, height and jumping) to make GMs and scouts forget about an injury that can drastically offset certain aspects of his game (namely, height and jumping).

So let’s assume whoever wins the lottery holds the keys to the Noel sweepstakes. Which prospect then emerges from behind door No. 2?

It was once thought to be Kansas shooting guard Ben McLemore. But following the draft combine in Chicago last week, one scout summarized McLemore’s game this way: The less you see of him, the better he looks.

And the more you analyze this draft, the more you can understand what the GM meant when he said the top two draft slots create a conundrum.

After all, if you own a top-two pick, most people expect you to select someone who becomes, if not the face of the franchise, at least the neck, shoulders and chest.

Meanwhile, if you’re selecting third … well, there’s a little more wiggle room there. Yes, if you miss on a guy at No. 3, you’re still scorned. Just not quite as much as if you miss at No. 1.

Or let’s put it this way: When the player drafted ninth turns out to be as good as the guy drafted first, it’s typically the GM of Team No. 1 who ends up applying for a job as a receptionist at the local dentist’s office.

Most mock drafts have Georgetown forward Otto Porter Jr. going third. He compared himself to former Detroit Pistons and current Memphis Grizzlies forward Tayshaun Prince.

Prince is all arms and legs, a strong defender, a decent perimeter shooter and a respectable finisher who was drafted back in 2002 -- with the 23rd overall pick.

Granted, he would go a lot higher in this draft, and most people would accept a guy with his talents as a lottery selection. Unless, of course, he was taken first or second.


Then there’d likely be at least some minor unrest.

So is winning Tuesday’s lottery pointless? Hardly. Again, you can do more with the No. 1 pick than actually use it to draft someone.

But will winning the lottery or finishing second solve your problems? If so, there’s a lot of fibbing going on. Because the skinny entering the draft is there are plenty of capable players who can come in and help your team.

There just isn’t one who will single-handedly lift you to new heights. And in theory, that’s what winning the lottery is all aboudamentals.

• Michigan shooting guard Tim Hardaway Jr. was perhaps the biggest winner at the combine. Not only did he destroy people in games of 4-on-4, the prevalent opinion was he gave the best individual interviews with team personnel.

• Entering the combine, draft experts had Hardaway going anywhere from the early 20s to the early second round. Now, it seems more likely he’ll be selected anywhere from 12-17.

• Also, this is expected to be a good year for international players in the first round. Several scouts agreed that, skill-wise, Russian forward Sergey Karasev is every bit as promising as Porter. But unlike Porter, Karasev comes with some baggage. He’s not only had a few minor off-the-court issues, he is considered an indifferent defender.

• Indiana center Cody Zeller was extremely impressive in drills that tested athleticism and agility, and off the charts for a 7-footer. One team executive said, while more stock is placed on individual workouts, Zeller has climbed to No. 2 on his team’s draft board. (ERNIE? :x)

• Zeller’s IU teammate, shooting guard Victor Oladipo, also gave a strong showing and may have secured his spot in the top five. Oladipo wowed scouts and GMs with his athleticism and smarts, as well as one-on-one conversations. That said, several teams remain concerned with his lack of fundamentals.

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#735 » by FAH1223 » Mon May 20, 2013 2:29 pm

The NBA also charted shooting drills on Thursday. Here was the leaderboard:

Top shooters: Mike Muscala (76 percent), Tony Snell (74 percent), Reggie Bullock and Grant Jerrett (72 percent), Allen Crabbe (70 percent).

Worst shooters : Myck Kabongo (32 percent), Shabazz Muhammad (36 percent), Andre Roberson (42 percent).


Whose stock improved? Dropped?

France's Rudy Gobert also wowed with sheer size. His 7-foot-8.5 wingspan and 9-foot-7 standing reach both were record measurements by the NBA. While Gobert didn't look particularly explosive, nor was he particularly skilled offensively, he was a handful around the basket and could, with another 20 pounds of muscle, be a nightmare around the basket. Scouts weren't ready to declare him a lottery pick, but they did love the effort.

Cal's Allen Crabbe put on the best shooting performance of anyone at the camp. His beautiful shot was going in from everywhere on Thursday. That's not a huge surprise if you've watched Crabbe play, but nevertheless, many scouts and GMs mentioned him as one of the two or three most impressive players they saw on Thursday. North Carolina's Reggie Bullock also drew praise for his shooting (see percentage above). Miami's Shane Larkin and Murray State's Isaiah Canaan both impressed out of the point guard group. Ricardo Ledo also stood out for a number of NBA GMs who were getting their first look at him.

Who didn't help themselves?
It's pretty hard to hurt your stock in a camp like this. But there was some negativity around the poor shooting performances by Archie Goodwin, B.J. Young and Vander Blue. All three players really struggled to look the part of "shooting" guards in the drills Thursday. Every year, NBA scouts and GMs scour the measurements portion of the combine. We published the results last night and you can find the measurements for every player in the camp plus analysis here.

Virtually every GM in the league will tell you that the most important part of the process for them is the interviews and medical evaluations. Teams spent up to four hours a day both Wednesday and Thursday doing sit-downs with individual players. A number of players had great interviews including, McLemore, Porter, McCollum and Oladipo.

McCollum especially seemed to be a hit among the NBA people I spoke with. The fact that he was a journalism/communications major certainly didn't hurt him. I spoke to around 30 of the players at the combine on Thursday, and I understand McCollum's appeal. He might have been the most engaging conversation I had at the combine.

That process should bode well for McCollum going forward. He already is one of the most dynamic scorers in the draft. If teams believe they can sell him to fans as well, a high lottery team might be more willing to build around him.

Draft promises?
Finally, the draft combine wouldn't be the draft combine without talk of a player being "promised" to be taken by another team. Last year, Syracuse guard Dion Waiters grabbed the first promise of the draft season. This year it looks like two international players -- Germany's Dennis Schroeder and Greece's Giannis Antetokounmpo -- have been locked up. The "promise" happens when a team guarantees to a player and his agent that they will take him with their pick. The player, in turn, agrees to either stop working out, or in the case of international players, to agree to stay in the draft and not withdraw before the deadline.

While sources did not pinpoint the teams who made the promise, they did say that Schroeder's promise was in the mid-first round, while Antetokounmpo's promise was in the late first round. Both make sense.

Schroeder wowed at the Nike Hoops Summit last month and had generated a lot of buzz coming into the camp. A team fearing he might improve his stock even more at the combine might have decided to shut him down now before he rose out of their draft range. Several teams, including the Boston Celtics and Utah Jazz, are looking for point guards in that draft range. Antetokounmpo hasn't had an opportunity to do real workouts with teams.

However with so much upside, you could see a veteran team with multiple first-round picks deciding to keep him in Europe as a draft-and-stash candidate. A few teams, including the Jazz, Oklahoma City Thunder and Minnesota Timberwolves, have a second first-round pick in the 20s.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#736 » by tontoz » Mon May 20, 2013 2:30 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:You're vastly overrating Harden's ball handling ability when he came out of college. It was a universally noted weakness. And he was totally left hand dominant. It wasn't until his third season in the NBA he demonstrated that elite creative ability. And you're underrating Muhammad's ability to score off the bounce. His offhand is clearly weak, but he's actually pretty creative with his dominant hand and does a nice job getting into the paint and scoring over multiple defenders, particularly with that awesome floater game. He's an off the ball player by nature, but he does put the ball on the floor and score.




As a freshman Harden averated 18 shooting 52.7% from the field, 40.7% from 3. He also averaged 3.2 assists.

Bazz shot 44.3%, 37.7% from 3 with .8 assists. They are not comparable.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#737 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 20, 2013 2:36 pm

I don't know about that, mcqueen. Harden as a freshman had 4 times as many assists, got to the line more, and had better shooting %'s across the board. I think the "ball handling is a weakness" wasn't an overall statement but rather the result of a string of assumptions. Before the measurements came out people were wondering if he was tall, long, and most importantly athletic enough to defend shooting guards. If he wasn't then the question was if his ball-handling was good enough to play combo or even point guard. Steph Curry faced the same concerns and CJM is facing that currently. Harden was left-dominant and even though even the casual fan at home knew it, not a lot of people could stop it - just the same as NBA players right now are hard pressed to press Harden into an uncomfortable spot. I'd say his defense and his athleticism were chief concerns and ball-handling was middle-of-the-list at best in terms of weaknesses in his game.

I don't think Harden's a very good comparison. He was a do-it-all guard on a mediocre team who had questions about his ability to defend and score at the next level. Shabazz if anything has good size for SG and reasonable size to play SF. As old as he is, his athleticism seems no worse than any other wing out there and defense won't be an issue. The question would be his efficiency, and ability to play off-ball. 44/37/71 shooting percentages don't live up to the preseason hype of how good he was supposed to be.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#738 » by go'stags » Mon May 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Shabazz strikes me as a guy who will indeed be like Barnes: He won't be all that good or efficient, but in some high profile national TV games he will show up in an impressive way and people will think he is better than he actually is. I get that there were distractions at UCLA, and not all of them were his fault, but that should have been offset by his age.Point is, if he were as good at scoring as you guys say he is, with all of his "tools", then he would have been more efficient. Jordan Adams performed better than he did, as a normal aged freshman.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#739 » by Dark Faze » Mon May 20, 2013 3:00 pm

Howland factor for guards is absolutely a thing though, not to mention a lot of guards don't look great until their second year of college, so Bazz has that going for him.

I mean if you look at Westbrooks college stats its hard to imagine him being a lottery pick, let alone what he is today.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part IV 

Post#740 » by pancakes3 » Mon May 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Also, someone may have posted this last year but I just stumbled upon it. Can't teach tall.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2012/05/tru ... e-nba.html
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