Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[Dark Faze]

I still think we should move Mahinmi plus a 1st for Ibaka and Hezonja.

We would have space to possibly resign Ibaka, or, it would give us cap space and rid us of Mahinmi's contract. We wouldn't have to depend on Ian's health. You roll the dice on hezonja, who has 2 years left on a rookie deal. Hezonja and Satoransky were teammates on Barcelona and made a nasty duo running the floor.

Think about the athleticism of a Sato-Hezonja-Oubre trio, Ibaka can actually play either the 4 or 5 with Gortat or Keef.

Ibaka is the last guy you want to hand a max contract right now. He could break down at any point.

[bealwithit]

I still think we should move Mahinmi plus a 1st for Ibaka and Hezonja.

We would have space to possibly resign Ibaka, or, it would give us cap space and rid us of Mahinmi's contract. We wouldn't have to depend on Ian's health. You roll the dice on hezonja, who has 2 years left on a rookie deal. Hezonja and Satoransky were teammates on Barcelona and made a nasty duo running the floor.

Think about the athleticism of a Sato-Hezonja-Oubre trio, Ibaka can actually play either the 4 or 5 with Gortat or Keef.

Eh... this kind of follows the same thing I was talking about with the Monroe trade, but without the risk of the player option Monroe has. I guess if this happened I wouldn't be super angry. Keeping the first just still seems like the best idea because getting one more young player in a deep draft would give us a comfortable amount of youth on the team. Beal breaking out, Otto coming into his own, Oubre developing, Sato, and a new rookie would be a nice group. Next year's deadline seems like the time where our 2018 first could be spent with peace of mind since we would have stockpiled a solid amount of young players and we could make a big move then.

Despite me just advocating for the idea in my previous posts about the Monroe trade idea, after taking a look I'm also not sure what having cap space (assuming Mahinmi is traded and Ibaka did not re-sign with us) this upcoming offseason would really do for us. There's no one who looks like they will actually be available that would really be a big upgrade for us.
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
Best I can see is like... Tyreke Evans? (I don't know of any notable players who have player/team options and could opt out, lemme know if you know) None of these other guys seem like they're going anywhere or are too old for us to be interested. Better idea might be to just re-sign Ibaka at that point but would he make us a team that could beat with the Cavs? I certainly like the fit considering his combination of D (Mahinmi might still be the better defensive player), rebounding and superior offensive ability when compared to Mahinmi. Not sure though. They still have playoffs LeBron and a wealth of shooters.

Finally, all these Mahinmi trade ideas are assuming that he will even be made available by Ernie. I don't see him doing that.

As many have begun to state in this thread, the best move might to be just ride this out with Mahinmi and improving other parts of the team in the offseason. I think I agree.

well, my thought process would be, have money to resign otto to the max, then possibly resign ibaka using bird rights, or use the MLE on someone, gives them plenty of wiggle room, and hezonja would be the young player you speak of. I also forgot that Satoransky played with not only Hezonja, but also Ibaka who is from spain.

And there was a report just last week that said Mahinmi was being made available, not sure about its validity, but it was reported. I am very high on Hezonja, its a great buy low opportunity, put him with wall or sato, could be gold.

You are correct, Alex Kennnedy of HoopsHype reported that Mahinmi is "seemingly available". We'll obviously find out at the deadline if anything is in the works.
http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/03/nba-rumor-notebook-many-big-men-available-jimmy-butlers-future-melo-talk/

Hezonja doesn't excite me much. Very athletic yet his defensive numbers are awful and his shot seems to be lost. The defense thing is especially concerning considering he plays under Vogel, a guy known for defense. Playing on a better team and being coached by someone like Brooks who knows how to develop younger players might help and would be interesting. Personally, I'd rather take a chance on someone who has at least shown they can produce at the college level instead of a raw athletic kid who has had a rough start to his career. No disrespect to your opinion of him.

[WizTom]

...The cap situation also means draft picks, especially 2nd round picks, should be very valuable to the Wiz in the coming years. ... Looking at just the last two drafts, there are about 12-15 guys that are already potential rotation players from the second rounds.

Yup. Better than that, in fact. From 2011: Bogdanovic, Singler, Mack, Parsons, Leuer, Bertans, Allen, Liggins, Moore & Thomas. From 2012: Satoransky, Crowder, Green, Acy, Middleton, Barton, Scott & O'Quinn.

Quite a fair number of impact players among them.

...Trading future picks just doesn't make sense to me. ...This team is already carrying three un-drafted free agents! Imagine looking down the bench and seeing guys like Joe Young, Kay Felder, Malcolm Brogdon, Norman Powell, Jake Layman, Montrezl Harrell, Ivica Zubac, or Richaun Holmes. Instead we have Burke, Thornton, Nicholson, and the three un-drafted rookies. Six (6!!!) un-playable players on the roster. No wonder Brooks is burning the starters so many minutes. Replace any three of them with a random grab bag of Young, Brogdon, and Zubac. Problem solved.

#FireEFG

PS: All you debate team stat nerds can go off about how lousy Young, Brogdon, and Zubac are.
But my principles remain:
Hope for Sato.
Do not trade future picks.
The future cap situation sucketh.
#FireEFG.
Acquire 2nd round picks.

On the button. But McClellan has promise & shouldn't be neglected. & you missed another 4-6 guys from the 2016 R2

That was a long rant. Nice edit. I just pulled a few 2nd rounders from the past couple of drafts that I could think of quickly. But you're right. Looking at recent draft histories, I count 9 players from '15 and 8 from '16 who would be getting minutes for the Wizards right now. Sixteen players of the 60 (26.7%) chosen in the 2nd rounds of the two drafts you mentioned, '11 and '12, would, too. 2014 had 8, and 2013 is a little light with only 6 or 7. The second round is no longer a statistical crap shoot. If you know what you're doing, you can get rotation players at least 25% or more of the time. Almost for free and with low cap impact.

They would at least be better looking than the end of the Wizards' bench currently.

As for McClellan, I think he has promise, too. But my hopes are not what will determine performance. So far, he's a DNP-CD machine. Heck, maybe House can be Jared Dudley 2.0 next season and the Big Sneeze (Ochefu! Gesundheit!) can develop into a competent 4th center. (Who needs a 4th center in the pace-and-space era? Answer: the Wizards, who already have $33 million in centers, plus Nicholson for another $6 mil.!)

I even really like Oubre. He looked great the other night against the Cavs with 11 points, 7 rebounds, and 4 steals in 28 minutes, often going against LeBron. But he also fouled out in 28 minutes often going against LeBron. Two nights later against the high-flyin' Nets he had 0 points, 3 rebounds and 4 fouls in 33 minutes. That's the team's 6th man going into the playoffs. Just sayin'.

God forbid we could have actually plugged ANYONE (other than the obvious Sato) from those 25% of 2nd round picks into the line-up when Morris and Oubre fouled out. I'm not even talking about legit starters like Green, Crowder, or a healthy Parsons. Just a competent bench piece like Layman, Mack, or Moore.

#FireEFG.
Acquire 2nd round picks.

[Rob Diaz]

As an outsider looking in, Lou Williams would be perfect for the Wiz IMO. Short contract, no commitment, wouldn't have to give up any key players, defensive and chucking flaws are irrelevant since he'll be in a bench role(20 MPG in the playoffs as a PG/SG), decent insurance for a Beal injury, etc.

A deep bench isn't essential in the playoffs, but you need at least 1-2 reliable bench options to win.

[bealwithit]

As an outsider looking in, Lou Williams would be perfect for the Wiz IMO. Short contract, no commitment, wouldn't have to give up any key players, defensive and chucking flaws are irrelevant since he'll be in a bench role(20 MPG in the playoffs as a PG/SG), decent insurance for a Beal injury, etc.

A deep bench isn't essential in the playoffs, but you need at least 1-2 reliable bench options to win.

Appreciate your perspective. I too like Lou as a bench piece, the thing is that getting Lou Williams doesn't make us a better team than the Cavs imo. We played 'em close the other night and really beat them if not for a 1 in a million shot from LeBron, but in a 7 game series they would beat us, even with Lou Will. We just aren't there yet.

[Dark Faze]

As an outsider looking in, Lou Williams would be perfect for the Wiz IMO. Short contract, no commitment, wouldn't have to give up any key players, defensive and chucking flaws are irrelevant since he'll be in a bench role(20 MPG in the playoffs as a PG/SG), decent insurance for a Beal injury, etc.

A deep bench isn't essential in the playoffs, but you need at least 1-2 reliable bench options to win.

Appreciate your perspective. I too like Lou as a bench piece, the thing is that getting Lou Williams doesn't make us a better team than the Cavs imo. We played 'em close the other night and really beat them if not for a 1 in a million shot from LeBron, but in a 7 game series they would beat us, even with Lou Will. We just aren't there yet.

lets be honest though, 50+ wins and losing in the ECF is our superbowl--i'd gladly take that

The problem with Lou is that his contract is so short and after its done he'll be making too much. Some team like Sota will pay him 17 a year to be their sixth man. I think we need him and another good bench player to be the undisputed second best team in the east, but he's going to be too expensive.

[Rob Diaz]

As an outsider looking in, Lou Williams would be perfect for the Wiz IMO. Short contract, no commitment, wouldn't have to give up any key players, defensive and chucking flaws are irrelevant since he'll be in a bench role(20 MPG in the playoffs as a PG/SG), decent insurance for a Beal injury, etc.

A deep bench isn't essential in the playoffs, but you need at least 1-2 reliable bench options to win.

Appreciate your perspective. I too like Lou as a bench piece, the thing is that getting Lou Williams doesn't make us a better team than the Cavs imo. We played 'em close the other night and really beat them if not for a 1 in a million shot from LeBron, but in a 7 game series they would beat us, even with Lou Will. We just aren't there yet.

I agree with your POV that Cleveland would still beat the Wiz, but you can't take your opportunities for granted in the NBA IMO. Wizards aren't that far from competing, you have to take a shot, and it'll be tough to win with the worst bench in the NBA, statistically.

John Wall isn't old or anything, but he's in his prime, right now. The peak window is 2-3 years, you have to take a shot while you have the best opportunity(which might be right now IMO).

If you have a starting 5 of Wall/Beal/Porter/Morris/Gortat(one of the best starting units in the NBA) with 2 legit bench guys(Williams, Mahinmi), at least you have a shot. Realistically, they probably need some luck and 1 more guy to step up if they're going to win(Oubre, ideally, since I wouldn't trust Burke or Thornton or whoever), but I'd at least take a shot.

[Dark Faze]

If you have a starting 5 of Wall/Beal/Porter/Morris/Gortat(one of the best starting units in the NBA) with 2 legit bench guys(Williams, Mahinmi), at least you have a shot. Realistically, they probably need some luck and 1 more guy to step up if they're going to win(Oubre, ideally, since I wouldn't trust Burke or Thornton or whoever), but I'd at least take a shot.

We should be looking for good players on long term desirable contracts (3 seasons or more). Guys that you'll only have for 1.5 seasons...it's just not worth it, as much as I'd like to get a guy like Lou.

But I targeted Faried as an example of the sort of contracts I'd like. Bledsoe would be good too--maybe roll the dice and risk him going insane as our sixth man. Is he *really* going to cry about leaving the Suns? We could get him in some three guard lineups for sure.

[bealwithit]

As an outsider looking in, Lou Williams would be perfect for the Wiz IMO. Short contract, no commitment, wouldn't have to give up any key players, defensive and chucking flaws are irrelevant since he'll be in a bench role(20 MPG in the playoffs as a PG/SG), decent insurance for a Beal injury, etc.

A deep bench isn't essential in the playoffs, but you need at least 1-2 reliable bench options to win.

Appreciate your perspective. I too like Lou as a bench piece, the thing is that getting Lou Williams doesn't make us a better team than the Cavs imo. We played 'em close the other night and really beat them if not for a 1 in a million shot from LeBron, but in a 7 game series they would beat us, even with Lou Will. We just aren't there yet.

I agree with your POV that Cleveland would still beat the Wiz, but you can't take your opportunities for granted in the NBA IMO. Wizards aren't that far from competing, you have to take a shot, and it'll be tough to win with the worst bench in the NBA, statistically.

John Wall isn't old or anything, but he's in his prime, right now. The peak window is 2-3 years, you have to take a shot while you have the best opportunity(which might be right now IMO).

If you have a starting 5 of Wall/Beal/Porter/Morris/Gortat(one of the best starting units in the NBA) with 2 legit bench guys(Williams, Mahinmi), at least you have a shot. Realistically, they probably need some luck and 1 more guy to step up if they're going to win(Oubre, ideally, since I wouldn't trust Burke or Thornton or whoever), but I'd at least take a shot.

True, you never want to blow your the few chances you have. Right after that Cavs game ended I immediately was posting that we should send the 1st round pick out for Lou Williams right now because oh my god we're a good team! But that's shortsighted. We've always been shortsighted. We have a chance here with all these young players to have a big picture view and be a little more patient. I've been posting today about how we should keep our pick for this season and wait for next year's deadline to make whatever our big move will be using the 2018 pick when it's at a higher value plus whatever else is takes depending on what the trade is. I believe that's what would be the best thing for our team and honestly we've got a pretty good chance at making the ECF with the team we already have if we finish at the 3rd seed.

[Dark Faze]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

[NatP4]

I still think we should move Mahinmi plus a 1st for Ibaka and Hezonja.

We would have space to possibly resign Ibaka, or, it would give us cap space and rid us of Mahinmi's contract. We wouldn't have to depend on Ian's health. You roll the dice on hezonja, who has 2 years left on a rookie deal. Hezonja and Satoransky were teammates on Barcelona and made a nasty duo running the floor.

Think about the athleticism of a Sato-Hezonja-Oubre trio, Ibaka can actually play either the 4 or 5 with Gortat or Keef.

Ibaka is the last guy you want to hand a max contract right now. He could break down at any point.

who said anything about handing him a max? he's a perfect 3rd big for the rest of this season, and moving mahinmi and having his bird rights gives you an opportunity to possibly resign him, or not.

no way in hell would you even consider maxing him if you're the wizards. the first is for Hezonja. Magic fans are very clear about his defensive/ ball handling issues, but also say he has real talent, athletic, wet jumper, great court vision. i think its a perfect buy low chance to add young talent.

imagine bringing in a bench unit of sato-hezonja-oubre-ibaka. That's immediately the most talented bench in the NBA, who knows how they would produce, but sky high talent level.

[NatP4]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

i mean, a few years ago the wizards fanbase was drooling over the guy, thinking he would be the perfect 3rd piece next to wall and beal. now he's VERY available. Hezonja is also VERY available, and under contract for 3 years for cheap.

you have the bird rights to ibaka and otto so you can possibly retain both with some salary maneuvering. the magic GM is an idiot, keep that in mind.

[NatP4]

I'm sorry guys, theres just no way in hell Lou Williams puts us over the top against Cleveland. He gets abused on defense and his shooting percentages are bound to come back down to earth, right now his trade value is way tooooo high. you could EASILY turn that first rounder into a better player than him. the spurs just picked Dejounte Murray in that spot.

We should be looking for two way players to add, we can score with ease against cleveland, we couldn't stop them. same with boston or toronto.

[Dark Faze]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

i mean, a few years ago the wizards fanbase was drooling over the guy, thinking he would be the perfect 3rd piece next to wall and beal. now he's VERY available. Hezonja is also VERY available, and under contract for 3 years for cheap.

you have the bird rights to ibaka and otto so you can possibly retain both with some salary maneuvering. the magic GM is an idiot, keep that in mind.

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

[bealwithit]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

i mean, a few years ago the wizards fanbase was drooling over the guy, thinking he would be the perfect 3rd piece next to wall and beal. now he's VERY available. Hezonja is also VERY available, and under contract for 3 years for cheap.

you have the bird rights to ibaka and otto so you can possibly retain both with some salary maneuvering. the magic GM is an idiot, keep that in mind.

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

Yeah I'm starting to get a little hot and bothered myself. Someone come in here and smack us.

[NatP4]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

i mean, a few years ago the wizards fanbase was drooling over the guy, thinking he would be the perfect 3rd piece next to wall and beal. now he's VERY available. Hezonja is also VERY available, and under contract for 3 years for cheap.

you have the bird rights to ibaka and otto so you can possibly retain both with some salary maneuvering. the magic GM is an idiot, keep that in mind.

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

Whats wrong with a 3 man big rotation of Ibaka Keef and Gortat with jason smith also? assuming we could retain Ibaka

Oubre and Hezonja on rookie deals for 3 years. Put pressure on Ted to not be a cheap bastard.

or trade our pick for some role player that doesn't change our playoff fate whatsoever

[gambitx777]

Ibaka is probably looking at 18 mill a year in his next deal no one in his right mind would max him at 28 and declining. He would 100% be worth that. He would be perfect in a 3 man rotation with Leif and gortat. I would call and ask to talk to him and be like look we will give you a 3 year extension 18 mill a year player options both years after that. Just stay 1 year at 18

[Dark Faze]

Ibaka is probably looking at 18 mill a year in his next deal no one in his right mind would max him at 28 and declining. He would 100% be worth that. He would be perfect in a 3 man rotation with Leif and gortat. I would call and ask to talk to him and be like look we will give you a 3 year extension 18 mill a year player options both years after that. Just stay 1 year at 18

there are too many young teams with zero cap space issues for this to happen

the pels would love to have him next to anthony davis, the wolves have cap space to put him next to towns, the heat are rumored to have interest...its definitely going to be a deal in the low 20's a year at a minimum, and its definitely going to be as many years as he can get

[payitforward]

lets be honest though, 50+ wins and losing in the ECF is our superbowl...

Who does the half-time show?

[payitforward]

...you can't take your opportunities for granted in the NBA IMO. ...John Wall isn't old or anything, but he's in his prime, right now. The peak window is 2-3 years, you have to take a shot while you have the best opportunity(which might be right now IMO).

If you have a starting 5 of Wall/Beal/Porter/Morris/Gortat (one of the best starting units in the NBA) with 2 legit bench guys (Williams, Mahinmi), at least you have a shot. Realistically, they probably need some luck and 1 more guy to step up if they're going to win (Oubre, ideally, since I wouldn't trust Burke or Thornton or whoever), but I'd at least take a shot.

Makes good sense. But, if Williams costs us a R1 pick he hampers our chances 2-3 years from now, when Wall is still in his peak, Beal is at his, Porter ditto, Sato a much more complete player (hopfully), etc. So there's another variable to that calculation.

Plus, if we'd have a shot with Williams, it'd only be because of how streaky he is: catch the up streak at the right time, and it can make a difference in a single series.

OTOH, there are the down streaks as well. I wouldn't trade the future for a long-odds bet. If we were one player from a really solid chance to win the EC, sure. But... we're not.