Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[nate33]

Tell me, Nate, what from the dossier has been debunked? Last I checked nothing’s actually been disproven.

Most of the allegations are non-specific enough that they can't be disproven, but most are unsubstantiated. Here's a good summary of it:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/whats-true-false-and-in-between-in-the-trump-dossier/

There is at least one thing that has been categorically disproven:

“Clandestine meeting between…Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen and Kremlin representatives in August 2016.” The meeting too place in Prague

False. Cohen has vehemently denied the allegations that he met with Kremlin representatives to discuss collusion and that he traveled to Prague. Cohen has provided photos of his passport showing that he has never visited Prague. CNN reported just after the dossier was published in January that the document referred to a different Michael Cohen who had visited Prague

[cammac]

Tell me, Nate, what from the dossier has been debunked? Last I checked nothing’s actually been disproven.

Most of the allegations are non-specific enough that they can't be disproven, but most are unsubstantiated. Here's a good summary of it:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/whats-true-false-and-in-between-in-the-trump-dossier/

There is at least one thing that has been categorically disproven:

“Clandestine meeting between…Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen and Kremlin representatives in August 2016.” The meeting too place in Prague

False. Cohen has vehemently denied the allegations that he met with Kremlin representatives to discuss collusion and that he traveled to Prague. Cohen has provided photos of his passport showing that he has never visited Prague. CNN reported just after the dossier was published in January that the document referred to a different Michael Cohen who had visited Prague

Once you are Euro Zone your passport doesn't get stamped! The Schengen countries, much of continental Europe, allow you to pass from one country to another without showing a passport. Note: UK has different rules not part of Schengen countries.

[cammac]

Tell me, Nate, what from the dossier has been debunked? Last I checked nothing’s actually been disproven.

I find it hilarious Nates conjecture on what crimes have been committed by Flynn & Papadopolous the whole idea of plea bargaining is letting people plea guilty on lesser crimes for testimony and the gathering of information on higher ups. If Mueller wasn't getting something juicy then plea bargains wouldn't be offered. Mueller may or may not have things on Page but at this time he is playing everything close to the vest. It looks obvious as well that Gates is taking a plea.

Omgggggg stupid Canadian lol. It’s on team with ru.zzian dnc employee nd a antifa haha. 5 minz use their handlezzz ha

SEE SD20 got a new account!
You did get something right I am Canadian and damn proud of it!

[Doug_Blew]

The problem is Papadopolous is a harmless striver who wasn't even on the payroll of the Trump campaign. You can't wiretap a whole campaign because of a drunken conversation some volunteer has with an Australian diplomat.

If Papadopolous was such a nobody, who are all these high level Trump officials that are talking to him that are being caught on his wiretap?

Trump officials are being tapped because of the Carter Page warrant. A FISA Title 1 warrant allows them to review all of Page's communications and all of the communications of any person Page has spoken to. It's a backdoor way to spy on everyone in the Trump campaign. And it's not wiretaps as we conventionally understand them. It's the right to review all communications going back in time (to times prior to the Page warrant) because the NSA records all communications from everybody in America.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But do you have a link detailing that a FISA title 1 warrant allows you to listen to other communication not involving Page? I have not heard of this.

[Zonkerbl]

Answer my question. What is Trump supposed to do? How is it possible for Trump not to be blamed for Schiff including classified information into the memo?

Wtf are you nattering on about? The functioning of the FISA court IS CLASSIFIED. Or WAS anyway. And Trump released it!

What should he do? Resign! In a plea deal so he doesn’t go to jail!

WTF are you talking about?

What in the Nunes memo was damaging to national security? What field agents were uncovered? What intelligence tactics were disseminated? The answer is none of it. So the stink that Schiff raised about it's release was a farce.

How dumb do you think I am? You have no idea what the consequences of unclassifying that information was. None! Nor do you have any idea what the danger of the dem memo would be since you haven’t seen it! How do you manage to spew lies from both sides of your mouth?

[closg00]

The Steele dossier alleges that Igor Sachin, the owner of a Russian state-owned oil company, offered ‘brokerage’ to Page & Trump of 19% of Rosneft’s (the oil co) shares in exchange for Trump winning the presidency and lifting sanctions.
The Steele dossier was the first to mention Carter Page's trips to Russia which later turned out to be true. Several other pieces of information in the dossier have proven to have been true as-well hence the all-out assault on Steele. So there is some evidence

That's a pretty far cry from "we know for a fact". We know a lot of stuff about that Dossier has been debunked.

The "we know for a fact" was about the Trump people knowing in-advance that the Russians claimed dirt on Clinton, the other reference related to Carter Page. Steele was right about that Carter Page met with representatives of Russian state-owned oil giant Rosneft, so he could be right about the collusion, there is at-least "some" circumstantial evidence

Trump said: "no one he dealt with had anything to do with Russia", this is a proven lie

Trump said that in July of 2016. Do we have any evidence that he knew anyone in his campaign had dealt with Russia at the time? Papadopolous had spoken with a Russian, but he was a volunteer and there's no evidence that Trump knew anything about what he was doing.

The Infamous Trump Tower meeting was on June 9th. Steve Bannon called the meeting "treasonous" and he also is quoted as saying
"The chance that Don Jr. did not walk these Jumos up to his father’s office of the 26th floor is zero,” Bannon does not deny saying this and he must have some basis for saying this. Totally believable


Flynn lied about his contacts wit Russians and pled guilty. What you wrote is pure speculation. It remains to be seen what else he sang about.

It's not "pure speculation". Everything in the news coverage of the issue was about Flynn's conversations with Kislyak about the Obama sanctions and whether or not Flynn was directed to make those conversations or not. But those conversations with Kislyak were totally appropriate because Flynn was a member or the transition team.

What was Flynn's reasons for lying to the FBI about his contact if it was totally appropriate? As part of any plea deal Flynn had to sing his little heart out, I am betting that he can will sing an opera.

From a CNN articleon the matter:

The charging document states that Flynn made a false statement to the FBI when he stated that in December 2016 he did not ask Kislyak "to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia that same day; and Flynn did not recall the Russian ambassador subsequently telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request.".

2. We don't know yet if he was ignored, Trumps side said that he was, excuse me if I don't take them at the word

We know there are multiple emails from Papadopoulus to the Trump campaign, and no emails back in response.

People do use the phone and talk in person, Papadopoulus's girlfriend says that he will be the John Dean of this mess so I will wait to hear what he has told Mueller


About 15 years ago Trump was on the Howard Stern show with a gossip columnist who said Trump had bragged about wild sex in Russia with girls with “no morals.

Man you are reaching. The Dossier story was that Trump wanted them to piss on the bed that Obama slept in. Obama wasn't even a public figure 15 years ago.

Goes to the fact that he has sex with Russian prostitutes, so the allegation is plausible, him asking the woman to pee on the bed where Obama slept is perhaps the most believable part of the dossier.

[nate33]

Wtf are you nattering on about? The functioning of the FISA court IS CLASSIFIED. Or WAS anyway. And Trump released it!

What should he do? Resign! In a plea deal so he doesn’t go to jail!

WTF are you talking about?

What in the Nunes memo was damaging to national security? What field agents were uncovered? What intelligence tactics were disseminated? The answer is none of it. So the stink that Schiff raised about it's release was a farce.

How dumb do you think I am? You have no idea what the consequences of unclassifying that information was. None! Nor do you have any idea what the danger of the dem memo would be since you haven’t seen it! How do you manage to spew lies from both sides of your mouth?

You are apparently dumb enough to not understand the concept that it's possible for the Nunes memo to not be damaging to national security, but the Schiff memo could be. We don't know yet because we haven't seen the memo. I have already said this.

[nate33]

If Papadopolous was such a nobody, who are all these high level Trump officials that are talking to him that are being caught on his wiretap?

Trump officials are being tapped because of the Carter Page warrant. A FISA Title 1 warrant allows them to review all of Page's communications and all of the communications of any person Page has spoken to. It's a backdoor way to spy on everyone in the Trump campaign. And it's not wiretaps as we conventionally understand them. It's the right to review all communications going back in time (to times prior to the Page warrant) because the NSA records all communications from everybody in America.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But do you have a link detailing that a FISA title 1 warrant allows you to listen to other communication not involving Page? I have not heard of this.

Here's the original source talking about the NSA and its "three hop analysis"

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/07/17/nsa-spying-under-fire-you-got-problem/Ev73I1XwPYtvD2WFZ6idGK/story.html

Here's a blog summary of it: (I have no idea of the reputation of the blogger, but he seems to source most of his information)
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/07/nsa-spokesman-accidentally-admits-that-the-government-is-spying-on-all-americans.html

And here's a blog analysis of the issue as it relates to Page. This blogger is definitely a conservative in the tank for Trump, but he sources most of his information:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/04/exceptional-work-by-sharyl-attkisson-did-fbi-violate-woods-procedures/

[Doug_Blew]

Trump officials are being tapped because of the Carter Page warrant. A FISA Title 1 warrant allows them to review all of Page's communications and all of the communications of any person Page has spoken to. It's a backdoor way to spy on everyone in the Trump campaign. And it's not wiretaps as we conventionally understand them. It's the right to review all communications going back in time (to times prior to the Page warrant) because the NSA records all communications from everybody in America.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But do you have a link detailing that a FISA title 1 warrant allows you to listen to other communication not involving Page? I have not heard of this.

Here's the original source talking about the NSA and its "three hop analysis"

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/07/17/nsa-spying-under-fire-you-got-problem/Ev73I1XwPYtvD2WFZ6idGK/story.html

Here's a blog summary of it: (I have no idea of the reputation of the blogger, but he seems to source most of his information)
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/07/nsa-spokesman-accidentally-admits-that-the-government-is-spying-on-all-americans.html

And here's a blog analysis of the issue as it relates to Page. This blogger is definitely a conservative in the tank for Trump, but he sources most of his information:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/04/exceptional-work-by-sharyl-attkisson-did-fbi-violate-woods-procedures/

From reading the article it sounds like three hop analysis allows them to look at Contact information data. It doesn't allow them to listen to calls that Page is not a part of. I believe that is what you alluded to in your previous response.

But you said it's a backdoor way to spy on everyone on the trump campaign. Essentially they were able to look at phone records of everyone, but not able to do much more than that.

[Doug_Blew]

WTF are you talking about?

What in the Nunes memo was damaging to national security? What field agents were uncovered? What intelligence tactics were disseminated? The answer is none of it. So the stink that Schiff raised about it's release was a farce.

How dumb do you think I am? You have no idea what the consequences of unclassifying that information was. None! Nor do you have any idea what the danger of the dem memo would be since you haven’t seen it! How do you manage to spew lies from both sides of your mouth?

You are apparently dumb enough to not understand the concept that it's possible for the Nunes memo to not be damaging to national security, but the Schiff memo could be. We don't know yet because we haven't seen the memo. I have already said this.

It's also possible that the Nunes memo is damaging to National Security because it doesn't show the complete picture of the FISA warrant. It could be that it's designed to get Trump supporters riled up against our FBI and DOJ.

[Wizardspride]

Tell me, Nate, what from the dossier has been debunked? Last I checked nothing’s actually been disproven.

Most of the allegations are non-specific enough that they can't be disproven, but most are unsubstantiated. Here's a good summary of it:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/whats-true-false-and-in-between-in-the-trump-dossier/

There is at least one thing that has been categorically disproven:

“Clandestine meeting between…Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen and Kremlin representatives in August 2016.” The meeting too place in Prague

False. Cohen has vehemently denied the allegations that he met with Kremlin representatives to discuss collusion and that he traveled to Prague. Cohen has provided photos of his passport showing that he has never visited Prague. CNN reported just after the dossier was published in January that the document referred to a different Michael Cohen who had visited Prague

Read on Twitter

[nate33]

From reading the article it sounds like three hop analysis allows them to look at Contact information data. It doesn't allow them to listen to calls that Page is not a part of. I believe that is what you alluded to in your previous response.

But you said it's a backdoor way to spy on everyone on the trump campaign. Essentially they were able to look at phone records of everyone, but not able to do much more than that.

It says the "phone data" of all the contacts, not the "contacts data" of all the contacts. So it gives them access to all the phone records retained by the NSA. They don't publicize it, but it's pretty well understood that the NSA records all phone conversations and emails.

[cammac]

Trump and the Republican Party had a bounce from the SOU Address and the publicity on the Nunes Memo until it was revealed as a amateurish hack job. But one thing about the Trump Administration is that it is a gift that keeps giving. The White House handling of Rob Porter was a complete amateur hour and added to that the Trumpsters support of Porter. The demographic that has been moving steadily to the Democrats has been the broad cross-section of women voters with maybe the exception evangelistic women. Even that could be doubtful with Doug Jones winning in Alabama. In the next couple weeks I expect polling to return to Trump 35 to 37% and the Democrats favored by 10% +. Some interesting state special elections this week in Trump heavy districts.

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

Yup, important information in Steele's dossier was later proven to be true and Republican's are sh_itting themselves. This is why we are witnessing a very transparent assault to attack everything and anything associated with how DJT came to be investigated in this Russia probe. The FBI & Steele must all be turned into villains so that publics attention is diverted-away from the actions of Trump and his inner circle. Trump and his supporters desperately want this alternate universe of facts to become entrenched in the minds of the public in-advance of whatever factual findings and forth-coming indictments are made by Robert Mueller. The gambit has been highly successful with Trumps "poorly educated" base, but ultimately will be irrelevant when it comes to the factual basis for bringing or not bringing, additional criminal indictments.

[TGW]

Answer my question. What is Trump supposed to do? How is it possible for Trump not to be blamed for Schiff including classified information into the memo?

Wtf are you nattering on about? The functioning of the FISA court IS CLASSIFIED. Or WAS anyway. And Trump released it!

What should he do? Resign! In a plea deal so he doesn’t go to jail!

And if you respond “but what crime did he commit?” I will spit in your drink.

OMG u wanna funnyyy look up very1 here. Zonkerr is Russian citizen hahahahaha (or bougggjtt Russian wife lolllll). No jokeee!

Closggg izzz a dnc....gtn iz antifa! Factz!!! Old people sux sooo much at online stuff lol.

Trump sux but at leazzt he’s Americans. U guys SUCK! All r liars.

Is this english or (Please Use More Appropriate Word)? I can't tell.

[gtn130]

Nate, all of your propaganda posts involve you taking Nunes' and Fox News' word as absolute gospel. Maybe start there when trying to figure out why nobody agrees with you?

[nate33]

Nate, all of your propaganda posts involve you taking Nunes' and Fox News' word as absolute gospel. Maybe start there when trying to figure out why nobody agrees with you?

In the IBD/TIPP survey of public opinion, we asked respondents "How closely are you following news stories about the role played by the FBI and the Department of Justice during the 2016 presidential election?" Of those who responded, 72% said they were following the story either "very closely" (39%) or "somewhat closely" (33%). Our responses were taken only from those who were following the story closely.

Some 55% of those said it was "likely" that the Obama administration "improperly surveilled the Trump campaign during the 2016 election." There was an obvious partisan split among the responses, with 87% of Republicans and 55% of independents saying the improper spying took place, but only 31% of Democrats.

[gtn130]

When did I say that Fox News propaganda isn't effective? You are living proof of that

[cammac]

I look at how the USA is run and I frankly shake my head it is being run like a sh-thole country financially and both parties are complicit! Dckingfan and others on the board agree that changes need to be made and a looming problem in inflation can multiply the problem. 30 year treasury bills are at 2.75% during the Reagan years they reached a peak of 14% which would add astronomically to the USA debt. With Dr. Yellan gone from the Federal Reserve and Jerome Powell taking over a key position is questionable and typical of the Trump White House. There needs to be grownups in each party to show fiscal reality and not dogmatic approaches such as from the Tea Party. But real life solutions being honest with the American people creating programs that are streamlined and yes increases in taxes but getting real value from those increases.

[stilldropin20]

Tell me, Nate, what from the dossier has been debunked? Last I checked nothing’s actually been disproven.

What has been proven? Seriously anything other then he went to Russia once?