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2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

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The Consiglieri
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#721 » by The Consiglieri » Thu May 15, 2025 2:41 pm

TheBlackCzar wrote:
closg00 wrote:Fears had the 3rd fastest sprint time at the combine, a Fears/Sorber draft would make me very happy



This why I think Fears is the guy... Consiglierie you need to relax.... Trading out of a draft that has about 40 good prospects makes no sense whatsoever....

Fears has an elite skill, which is getting to the rim, and that is a very good skill to have for our team.... Even if he turned into Monte Ellis, that would definitely be a foolish pick to not use..... Fears is underrated because he needs to improve his jumper which has good form, and he's lightweight, 2 easily fixable issues..... Honestly think Fears could be Gil-like......


I'm not trading out of the draft. Not sure why people keep saying that. We have the 18th pick, AND I'm suggesting we trade down OR out. I lean OUT with the 6 slot, not with 18 and the 2nd.

I can't help but the get the vibe that you guys are all failing the marshmellow test. We just got smashed into the teeth, pushed out of the tier 1 AND tier 2 zone of prospects, but you still want your marshmellow and so you're pressing to get the next best prospect on your board to fill some particularly niche, not facing the fact that we lost our shot this year, period. We lost it. Other than blind dumb luck of the Jokic/Giannis/SGA variety, we aren't getting a catalyst player from this class, we're getting another Bub/Guggs/Cheaney, best case scenario Deni/Rip Hamilton guy from this class. That's nice and all, but that also aint contending for ----, let alone winning anything. We MIGHT be able to get a 4th guy on a great team with this pick, if we're lucky.

Considering we already have pick 18 a 2nd, and a pile of interesting but limited prospects, we can play with those options to trade up if we wish, but we can't get into the zone to get the fattest pieces of the cake w/all that frosting in this draft. It aint happening. i see this every year with fan bases, post draft, or post lottery, trying that cope, to deal with the fact that they got kicked in the ---'s, rationalizing the reality into the "maybe this will be just fine" or, "you know, Tre's awesome too," etc.

I get it, but am i crazy or need to calm down because I think there's more value in getting more lottery balls for '26, than there is taking a known 3rd tier option in '25? Ummm, no. The questions are:

#1 Is that even an option in the minds of the brain trust (I'd say no, they might trade down, I very much doubt they trade out).
#2 If it is an option (which it probably isn't), is there any way to acquire a high value enough draft pick/pick swap+ pick to even achieve this objective (and even this, I can only say maybe).

The fair criticism of my idea is obviously, #1: What team is doing this, and what protections would they demand to do it? #2 Do you even think it's worth talking about if there's no way the FO would do it in the first place (and I'm almost but not quite in agreement with #2 argument).

In the end I want to plant my flag that this should be a consideration, not that it must be, and not that its even a consideration for the FO brain trust itself. I think the most likely option that would please me, is trading the 6 for a mid '25 first, and a '26 top 3 protected first. Something like that, might be something they'd look at (w/say, no protections in '27 if it doesn't convey in '26 or whatever).

In the end I think there's an 85% chance we just make the pick at slot, probably a 10% chance we trade up or down, and a 5% chance at best we trade out with 6 (probably more like 3%).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#722 » by NatP4 » Thu May 15, 2025 2:47 pm

Hibachi_0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Gonzalez played 59 games this year! Spanish-1 league+playoffs, and 30 Euroleague games. Unreal level of competition for an 18/19 year old. Such a tough evaluation, only played 20+ minutes 5 times.

My gut feeling is that if Traore and Gonzalez played NCAA, they would both be in the top 5 conversation.


100% agree

There's 3 games left of RS in ACB and Madrid has already secured the 1st position. He'll probably have a bigger role in these games, if he does well I wouldn't be surprised he jumps back to the middle of the 1st round.


Good to know. Will definitely be tuning in to watch him in the playoffs.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#723 » by tontoz » Thu May 15, 2025 2:52 pm

Is Fears better than AJ at getting to the rim and finishing? I doubt it. Fears shot 47% at the rim against half court defense.

4.1 assists, 3.4 turnovers isn't great either.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#724 » by doclinkin » Thu May 15, 2025 2:53 pm

payitforward wrote:Ok... here's this morning's PIF-plan.

I trade 6, 18, 40 & a future R2 pick to the Nets for 8, 19, 27, & 36.

At 8, I take Maluach if he's there, otherwise I take Sorber.
At 19, I take Nolan Traore.
At 27, I take Yaxel Lendeborg.
At 36, I take Cedric Coward.

Thank you very much.


Yaxel says he’s going to Michigan unless he has a firm guarantee at 20 or above. At 27 he’d lose $ to jump to the NBA. Plus he’s been a standout in combine play. Someone takes him early.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#725 » by 80sballboy » Thu May 15, 2025 3:00 pm

My guess is that the Wiz go with Traore at 18 (if he's there)_, another Euro young prospect or some raw college kid. I doubt they go with a college guy like Danny Wolf, who is 21. I expect Dawkins to take young guys who will need 2-3 years to develop unless they don't care about drafting in the lottery next season. Soerber might make sense at 18 though I'd be concerned about the future of any big man who is coming off foot surgery.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#726 » by closg00 » Thu May 15, 2025 3:11 pm

:clap: I’ve mentioned him before, he is my dark horse pick for steal of the draft, we need a player like this.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#727 » by The Consiglieri » Thu May 15, 2025 3:19 pm

Jay81 wrote:Kon would be a super boring pick but I guarantee you he makes 1st team all rookie


Kon makes more sense to me for teams that already have their big 2, and a good 3rd option, and are just filling roles with super high floor reliable guys. He's not someone who makes sense for a team that lacks any genuine star level difference makers, its just a sort of Kispert in '21 all over again floor pick, just a better version of that pick mentality. It's taking a walk/hitting a single that might be a double for a good team. Doesn't make a team like ours that needs high end talent pretty much everywhere (to me anyway). I don't really care that he's got a locked in floor and reliability that will have everyone saying, "man, he should have gone 7th or 8th, not 13th" or whatever 12 months from now. I don't know where he goes, I just know there's like .5% chance he's ever a #1 on a great team, and that's what we need, so straight pass (my only concern w/passing on guys like this is if they can make trade packages look better, they can, but considering we have no elite anything, i don't really care that he could make a package offer to another team for a stud look better in 2027 or 2028).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#728 » by dobrojim » Thu May 15, 2025 3:27 pm

80sballboy wrote:My guess is that the Wiz go with Traore at 18 (if he's there)_, another Euro young prospect or some raw college kid. I doubt they go with a college guy like Danny Wolf, who is 21. I expect Dawkins to take young guys who will need 2-3 years to develop unless they don't care about drafting in the lottery next season. Soerber might make sense at 18 though I'd be concerned about the future of any big man who is coming off foot surgery.


I would think their strategy must take into account
the harm that would be caused by losing our FRP
next year completely. So it's not about drafting in the
lottery which is a proverbial slam dunk, but drafting
high enough to not convey the pick to NY and draft
(in the 1st rnd) at all.
The pick is top 8 protected. If we finish better
than 4th worst, we could outright lose the pick.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#729 » by The Consiglieri » Thu May 15, 2025 3:30 pm

doclinkin wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:I'm no expert, more of an anti-expert, but Maluach looks pretty good to me. Definitely looks like an outlier on size and mobility.

Talking myself into being OK with 6. Seems like it's shaping up that the there are two top guys, then Ace and Edgecomb, then everyone else. At 6, we might even have Ace slide down, and then we'd land with whichever of Johnson, Ace, and Maluach makes it to us, and I think I'd be good with that.

Hopefully the French guard or the French forward make it to 18 after that.



I think this is our draft. One of those 3. Then a young frenchie. Unless we trade up from 18.

I bet they try to trade up from 6 for one of Edge Ace or Tre, but are outbid by Brooklyn.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer a package to the Spurs on the hush hush that includes Bilal and the 6. Wemby plus Maluach would be monstrous. Or Sorber if he climbs the mocks. Plus the Frenchman’s good friend. With upside and defense of his own. But I bet the Spurs get better offers.


I am curious about your Sorber vibe. It's really how thoroughly he impressed people with his talent when healthy+ his insane measurements-his foot injury which in a lot of other sports would automatically drop said prospect a half round or full round or more, and I would think a foot injury for a big (just about the most dreaded injury there is) might exacerbate the concerns and make the drop risk even higher.

On the other hand if the medicals are totally clean, and teams get a report that he's fine and will be 100% with no concerns by July/August/September whatever, than, how hoigh does he jump from that 12-25 slotting he seemed to be in back in March/April?

I am super curious: half of me thinks he drops even further, but there's another part that thinks, with Queen especially, imploding at the combine, and Maluach at best just holding serve, it leaves room for Sorber to start sky rocketing up (it also makes me wonder about those French bigs-how did they measure?). I just can't see it at 6. I think Bilal shot up because there was enough interest to have him with a first round grade coming in, and then he was off the charts everything+Healthy+good mental make up writes ups after the combine. Only + combine is getting since February is the measurements and possibly interviews, but he can't work out, so how much can he jump? Not sure.

He's one of those guys, where I could see him with a +/- of 15-25 slots based on all these factors. A lot of volatility to where he could go to me. I just struggle to imagine there's any chance at 6, unless the medicals are as clean and pure as charmin and baby wipes advertisements etc.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#730 » by The Consiglieri » Thu May 15, 2025 3:33 pm

payitforward wrote:Ok... here's this morning's PIF-plan.

I trade 6, 18, 40 & a future R2 pick to the Nets for 8, 19, 27, & 36.

At 8, I take Maluach if he's there, otherwise I take Sorber.
At 19, I take Nolan Traore.
At 27, I take Yaxel Lendeborg.
At 36, I take Cedric Coward.

Thank you very much.


I thought Coward was the guy flying up into the late to mid 1st based on this month's hype train, is he really gonna last that far?

Oh, and zero chance I'd do that lol :).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#731 » by The Consiglieri » Thu May 15, 2025 3:36 pm

80sballboy wrote:My guess is that the Wiz go with Traore at 18 (if he's there)_, another Euro young prospect or some raw college kid. I doubt they go with a college guy like Danny Wolf, who is 21. I expect Dawkins to take young guys who will need 2-3 years to develop unless they don't care about drafting in the lottery next season. Soerber might make sense at 18 though I'd be concerned about the future of any big man who is coming off foot surgery.


Me as well, I did the leg work on all their prospects drafted, or traded for the past two years, and they are all 18, 19, 20, I think one or two 21 year olds their draft year. I have a hard time seeing them taking a 21+ year old Junior or Senior with 18. Borderline no chance to me, and additionally I sure as hell hope they wouldn't. Makes more sense to do a draft and stash/or draft a high ceiling/low floor developmental guy. This lottery screw job pushed back the rebuild 1-2 years pending '26 luck. No point in taking overage players and fully developed prospects w/little room to grow. I hope I'm right and I think I am that they aren't going for guys like Wolf or other 21-23 year old types.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#732 » by dobrojim » Thu May 15, 2025 3:42 pm

Bigs with foot issues should be considered very carefully.
That said, Sorber, if healthy, is an attractive prospect.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#733 » by doclinkin » Thu May 15, 2025 5:09 pm

The Consiglieri wrote:I am curious about your Sorber vibe. It's really how thoroughly he impressed people with his talent when healthy+ his insane measurements-his foot injury which in a lot of other sports would automatically drop said prospect a half round or full round or more, and I would think a foot injury for a big (just about the most dreaded injury there is) might exacerbate the concerns and make the drop risk even higher.

On the other hand if the medicals are totally clean, and teams get a report that he's fine and will be 100% with no concerns by July/August/September whatever, than, how high does he jump from that 12-25 slotting he seemed to be in back in March/April?

I am super curious: half of me thinks he drops even further, but there's another part that thinks, with Queen especially, imploding at the combine, and Maluach at best just holding serve, it leaves room for Sorber to start sky rocketing up (it also makes me wonder about those French bigs-how did they measure?). I just can't see it at 6. I think Bilal shot up because there was enough interest to have him with a first round grade coming in, and then he was off the charts everything+Healthy+good mental make up writes ups after the combine. Only + combine is getting since February is the measurements and possibly interviews, but he can't work out, so how much can he jump? Not sure.

He's one of those guys, where I could see him with a +/- of 15-25 slots based on all these factors. A lot of volatility to where he could go to me. I just struggle to imagine there's any chance at 6, unless the medicals are as clean and pure as charmin and baby wipes advertisements etc.


Obviously the medicals are the issue that will most suppress Sorber. Reading more deeply, literature on turf toe suggests proper diagnosis and early intervention and age of the patient are the things that influence long term prognosis. Recovery tends to be 6 months after surgery though return to sports at a high level may be as long as a year. That timetable will tend to suppress Sorber's value even if the medicals project full recovery. In that respect I could see him on the board at 18. Prognosis for turf toe in particular is sobering. Better than plantar faciistis, or brittle bones.

Otherwise, fully healthy, Sorber is a lottery prospect. Given his youth and immediate intervention with the injury he can expect a good chance at full recovery. Even if he is out for half the year.

Which makes him a steal for a team that can afford to wait on his production. Or a team that needs to lose a while. i.e. us.

There are few players whose combine measurements have actually helped them in the draft. Kalkbrenner measured nice, someone may snatch him with a late 1st after he has been lingering in the mid 2nd on most draft boards. Athletics numbers help a guy like Pettiford, who may have teams wondering why they want to spend a high pick on Fears if they can get a discount version with Tahad.

Sorber is one whose numbers jump out and would raise his stock instantly aside from the above. A question was whether his numbers would let him play C at the next level. If he could comfortably slide 4-5. Baseline standing reach for a player to defend the middle is anything above 9'. Check. His 265lbs of muscle show he won't be moved, can handle himself on the block. He's legitimately massive. There's only about a dozen players in the past 20 years with a wider wingspan. And he uses it well in positional defense, blocking shots, steals, scoring in the low post. Players with a low center of gravity and wide reach are a successful type at the next level. Especially when combined with smarts. Sorber's profile is as a taller Paul Millsapp. Bigger Draymond.

Interestingly enough, one stat that translates to defense in the NBA is assist numbers from non-ballhandling Bigs. Makes sense if you think about it, it indicates all-court awareness and anticipation. Read/react processing. Much of defense at the next level is getting ahead of the play and cutting off options. With his wingspan and wide base, Sorber takes up two lanes by himself. Sorber's advanced front court game is notable for a true freshman. Big man skills are earned slow. Sorber has a head start over most. In a league that is tilting back towards power basketball in the post-season having true size at center is key. Sorber projects to be a quiet +/- box score star, even if his own numbers won't be incandescent. Defense, screen setting, pick and roll play, connective passing, boxing out 2-3 opponents on a single possession, his game is quiet dirty work. The sort of player who is both the most critical and most underrated player on a championship team.

When I look at center prospects I look for defense first. For this team, in the Dawkins mode, I am looking for I am looking for youth, versatility. Smarts. Positional size. Sorber checks all those boxes. He'd be better with a jumper, but I like that he has been willing to take the shot from the midrange and out, even if it hasn't been falling at a high rate. This team will let him shoot it and find his comfort level. I have Sorber ranked highly when stacked against other Center prospects in the draft. Not as flashy on offense as DQ. Stronger and younger than Wolf. I have him 2nd at Center after Maluach. In terms of role, fit, skill, smarts, etc. If the health sheet is green.

If Maluach is gone at 6, and I'm looking at Fears and Kon and that sort of player, I'm willing to listen to offers that net me Sorber lower down and something else. I don't think he is available at 18 unless his medicals are a mess, and in that respect I too might hesitate depending on who else falls that far.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#734 » by closg00 » Thu May 15, 2025 5:22 pm

tontoz wrote:Is Fears better than AJ at getting to the rim and finishing? I doubt it. Fears shot 47% at the rim against half court defense.

4.1 assists, 3.4 turnovers isn't great either.


Do you think SA is going to pass-up taking Harper while having Fox and ROY Castle?
Brogdon is gone, Bub is not a PG, and AJ is 20. Fears is only 18 and he’s a better prospect with a sky high ceiling IMO, I like AJ too BTW
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#735 » by 80sballboy » Thu May 15, 2025 5:40 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#736 » by payitforward » Thu May 15, 2025 5:55 pm

doclinkin wrote:...If Maluach is gone at 6, and I'm looking at Fears and Kon and that sort of player, I'm willing to listen to offers that net me Sorber lower down and something else....

Absolutely!
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#737 » by closg00 » Thu May 15, 2025 6:23 pm

For our consideration:
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#738 » by DCZards » Thu May 15, 2025 6:48 pm

payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:...If Maluach is gone at 6, and I'm looking at Fears and Kon and that sort of player, I'm willing to listen to offers that net me Sorber lower down and something else....

Absolutely!
I'm always listening to offers to trade down...but I'd probably only trade down if Maluach and Tre J. are not available at 6. I'm sold on the idea of taking Maluach at 6 but I'm also very high on Johnson, who is mocked to go anywhere from 3-6.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#739 » by Frichuela » Thu May 15, 2025 7:04 pm

80sballboy wrote:
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I want no part of Kispert 2.0.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#740 » by doclinkin » Thu May 15, 2025 7:24 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:
doclinkin wrote:...If Maluach is gone at 6, and I'm looking at Fears and Kon and that sort of player, I'm willing to listen to offers that net me Sorber lower down and something else....

Absolutely!
I'm always listening to offers to trade down...but I'd probably only trade down if Maluach and Tre J. are not available at 6. I'm sold on the idea of taking Maluach at 6 but I'm also very high on Johnson, who is mocked to go anywhere from 3-6.


I’m fine with that.

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