2012 NBA Draft - Part II

[hands11]

I like Beal...but when in doubt I got to go with the stud 2 way player. Not that Beal is a bad defender, but MKG outside of the jumper is the perfect SF prospect, a great slasher and finisher at the hoop, impact perimeter defender, great rebounder, incredible intangibles...MKG/Ves/Nene is a pretty intimidating and defensive frontcourt with depth to boot. We could add a guy like Ray Allen or another pure shooter, and probably win 40-42 games next year.

I wouldn't say Beal *doesn't* have superstar potential...but MKG's ceiling ranges between Gerald Wallace and Scottie Pippen.

Ray Allan is the name I have been consistently putting out there. I wanted us to get him at the trade deadline if they could.

The challenge at this stage of the game is no just adding talent but adding the right talent. That mean skills and personality. I know it would be easy to think, well our record sucks so just add any good player but I dont think it is that easy. With Wall and now Nene here and with a number of younger players like Booker, KS, Ves...you dont want to draft them out of minutes. I'm fine with Booker at PF if we can add the right SGs and SF.

Sure the team could use good talent at almost any slot, but all needs are not equal. I believe finding the right players to primary share the ball handling with Wall is most important.

What Crawford and Mason do collectively is kind of skills you want at SG but you could get better version of them. Allen over Mason and who knows over Crawford. But that may mean moving both those players off the team. The bigger hole is finding a Iggy, Josh Smith, Batum type to play SF.

They really need to get this right. You dont want to waste a pick. In that regards, it may be best to pick up an established pro instead of looking in the draft. Beal seems like a safe pick. It would probably take him a year or two to find his game. Great locker room type personality. But I dont think he will come in and make a huge impact right away and I wonder if he has that alpha dog in him. I thought he was a Ray Allen but after watching him, he seems more like an Iggy only a little shorter.

They could even go tall center so they are ready in 3 years when Nene is done. Is that Zeller ? They really could use the first pick on any position other then PG. But whatever they get isn't going to make a big difference next year. The FA signing(s) is what will do that. At this point, I'm fine with Mason, but if they can get Ray Allen, hell yeah.

[tontoz]

I like Beal...but when in doubt I got to go with the stud 2 way player. Not that Beal is a bad defender, but MKG outside of the jumper is the perfect SF prospect, a great slasher and finisher at the hoop, impact perimeter defender, great rebounder, incredible intangibles...MKG/Ves/Nene is a pretty intimidating and defensive frontcourt with depth to boot. We could add a guy like Ray Allen or another pure shooter, and probably win 40-42 games next year.

I wouldn't say Beal *doesn't* have superstar potential...but MKG's ceiling ranges between Gerald Wallace and Scottie Pippen.

He doesn't have the elite athleticism of Wallace or the playmaking ability of Pippen. Pippen was a 6'1 pg when he went to college so he already had some pg skills. MKG hasn't shown anything like that.

[tontoz]

I'm not completely sold on Beal either. I know I'm not sold on the other swingmen considered to be at the top of the draft (MKG and Barnes).

Yeah this draft isn't looking as strong as it did a few months ago 2-6. Of those three i would take Beal simply because he doesn't appear to have any gaping holes in his game. I am not wowed by him though.

[The Consiglieri]

Robinson is really the last of the 5 guys Im interested in if we don't trade out. Im skeptical of him being an elite difference maker at the next level. I don't think that's going to happen. I think he's a third man. We'll still be looking for a franchise player, and we'll still be worrying as to whether Wall actually is one or not (the whispers are getting louder that he may not be, note the grantland article). That's my fear with Robinson, drafting him is like drafting the best case scenario with Sully, a good to very good player, probably, but not a great one. That makes the question, are there any great ones? I don't know. Im also intrigued by your Drummond theory.

Where would a guy like him go, has there ever been a situation like this before? I can't think of one. Every guy like Drummond has actually produced. I can't think of an example of a guy like this before. The #'s aren't there to justify anywhere near the slot, so your basically gambling as noone has ever gambled before.

1. Davis-No worries, i think he's nearly guarateed to be very good to great and with all star potential.

2/3:

MKG-Sole worry is whether or not he'll ever be able to develop a consistent jump shot. IF he doesnt, he'll always be limited as a player, never elite or very good.

Beal: Athleticism and height is the only concern (the neck angle, and the reach angle could address the latter).

4. Robinson: Upside is limited, not seen as having ideal size or athleticism to be an elite difference maker at the next level.

5. Drummond: Has underwhelmed with dedication and motor the previous summer, and with production during the entirety of this past season. Seen as a potential throwback to 1990's and early aughts draftees that had terrible mental make up, to go with elite jump out the gym measurables and athleticism.

All five have worries, chinks in their armour so to speak, which one can we live with the most?

Seems the most likely pick is probably 4/5, followed by 2/3 right now. Among those guys my current preference is:

1. Beal
2. MKG
3. Robinson
4. Trade Out

[DCZards]

I've really warmed up to Beal after watching him closely the last 2-3 games...and the idea of taking him as high as #2. I think Consig is on point when he talks about Beal's bball IQ and his ability to do a lot of things well. I also like Beal's sturdy body. I expect him to be a physical, aggressive SG who will regularly get to the free throw line.

I'm not that concerned about Beal's 6-3 height because he clearly plays bigger than he is. His rebounding #s attest to that.

MKG is probably the second best player (other than Davis of course) as it relates to the SG/SF that the Zards need. But, like others have said, MKG's shooting is a real concern. The Zards MUST draft at least a decent shooter at the SG/SF, unless they can pick up one later in the draft. I'd love to get the kid Jenkins from Vandy.

[Dat2U]

It just sounds like more people are interested in drafting the best shooter as opposed to the best player.

Yes we all recognize that the Wizards need shooters, but an even bigger need is just talent overall. Especially at both forward positions (assuming Nene plays C) and the SG. I think it's always better to get elite talent first then worry about surrounding that talent with the right fit. If MKG is the guy, I don't see what the concern is. Just make getting a stretch 4 like Anderson or Ilyasova a priority to go with him in free agency.

I just hard time envisioning that a 6-3 SG who didn't set the world on fire this year is the 2nd best player in the draft. Again he's a rock solid NBA prospect, but I'm not seeing an elite player.

At least Beal isn't Harrison Barnes. I never could make sense of people wanting a clearly inferior prospect like Barnes over others simply because of his skill-set. I could definitely live with Beal becoming a Wizard, just not with the #2 pick in the draft.

Jenkins, if he lasts to the 2nd round, would certainly be a fine shooter to target.

[miller31time]

If we get the 2nd pick, I'm more than fine with a trade-down scenario where we unload Blatche and are able to take Beal with the 4th or 5th pick.

[pancakes3]

i think beal's height is being blown out of proportion. dx has him listed at 6'4. the hypocrisy that is espn has him listed at 6'3 207 on the clubhouse page but 6'5 195 on the drafttracker. rivals.com and nbadraft.net both cite the 6'4 listing.

all in all, the short, squat, eric-gordon head with go-go-gadget arms is a good combo to have and if other teams are going to penalize him for not having nick young's swan neck or shelden william's fivehead, so be it.

fwiw, drafttracker also reports an 8'3 standing reach and 6'8 wingspan.

[miller31time]

i think beal's height is being blown out of proportion. dx has him listed at 6'4. the hypocrisy that is espn has him listed at 6'3 207 on the clubhouse page but 6'5 195 on the drafttracker. rivals.com and nbadraft.net both cite the 6'4 listing.

all in all, the short, squat, eric-gordon head with go-go-gadget arms is a good combo to have and if other teams are going to penalize him for not having nick young's swan neck or shelden william's fivehead, so be it.

fwiw, drafttracker also reports an 8'3 standing reach and 6'8 wingspan.

I always go back to the fact he doesn't really have a long neck -- it's so incredibly unimportant. As Kevin posted, it's useless height. Beal's size is not a problem in the least.

[Dat2U]

Not saying Beal is the next Eric Gordon, but if you had the chance, would you take Eric Gordon with the 2nd pick in the draft. Let's say the trade down scenario isn't a realistic option.

[Silvie Lysandra]

If Beal was more explosive or longer I'd be okay with him at #2. Beal is really more like 6'4 maybe 6'5 in socks, and obviously he's a fit with his great shooting, basketball IQ and his intangibles. I think MKG outside of the jumper is special - maybe he's not Gerald Wallace athleticially, but he'll have similar defensive and rebounding impact. He's probably not the dynamic point forward that Pippen was, his playmaking is more like Iggy, which is fine. But it's the overall skillset, combined with his motor and competitiveness and work ethic, that really excites me.

I think Beal will be a solid player, make a few ASGs and average 18-20 ppg, 5 APG, 5 RPG. I think MKG has the ability to average 24/7/7, be a triple double machine, and be the best perimeter defender in the game. Couple that with Wall's own ability to be a terrorizing perimeter defender, and having a guy like Vesely, who may be a self-check but will almost certainly be an impactful P&R defender and weakside shotblocker, and Seraphin who can match up with nearly any center in the NBA man on man, and we have the makings of a top 5 defense for years to come.

[miller31time]

Not saying Beal is the next Eric Gordon, but if you had the chance, would you take Eric Gordon with the 2nd pick in the draft. Let's say the trade down scenario isn't a realistic option.

Eric Gordon without the injury history? Yes.

22.3pts / 4.4asts / 2.9rebs on 56.6% TS% in his last season with LAC. He's young and getting better.

[jivelikenice]

Eric Gordon is much more effective off the dribble than Beal is. Beal seems like a shooter who can get to the hoops off the pump and drive game. I don't see him as being able to iso and finish one on one. If you can't do that as a 2 guard than you're not worth a top 3 pick. He'll be good, but nothing special.

[Dat2U]

Ok, then obviously you value Eric Gordon more than me. A healthy Eric Gordon is a guy I'd like to have but I don't see him as a star either. More of a Kevin Martin type player with similar impact. A guy who's an efficient scorer but doesn't rebound or pass a ton and doesn't offer much defense.

I expect Beal to be a better all around player. He seems like he cares about defense. He definitely rebounds better. I need more evidence to be convinced he's going to be a top notch scorer on the NBA level. The lack of production at Florida makes me wonder.

[DCZards]

I'm just not convinced that MKG is anything more than marginally more talented than Beal. Yes, MKG is a potentially elite SF, but I also see Beal as a potentially outstanding SG---closer to a Wade than a Gordon. Right now, I see a big hole in MKG's game--his shooting--that could keep him from becoming an elite player.

[Dat2U]

I'm just not convinced that MKG is anything more than marginally more talented than Beal. Yes, MKG is a potentially elite SF, but I also see Beal as a potentially outstanding SG---closer to a Wade than a Gordon. Right now, I see a big hole in MKG's game--his shooting--that could keep him from becoming an elite player.

Frankly, Beal shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath with Wade. Beal is no where near the athlete and no where near the shot creator. You'd better off saying Beal is the next Ray Allen. It just as ridiculous a notion but at least there are some similarities there.

[jivelikenice]

I know this isn't popular on this board but Rivers has a better shot at being Wade w/ his 1st step and ability to create for himself....

[The Consiglieri]

It just sounds like more people are interested in drafting the best shooter as opposed to the best player.

Yes we all recognize that the Wizards need shooters, but an even bigger need is just talent overall. Especially at both forward positions (assuming Nene plays C) and the SG. I think it's always better to get elite talent first then worry about surrounding that talent with the right fit. If MKG is the guy, I don't see what the concern is. Just make getting a stretch 4 like Anderson or Ilyasova a priority to go with him in free agency.

I just hard time envisioning that a 6-3 SG who didn't set the world on fire this year is the 2nd best player in the draft. Again he's a rock solid NBA prospect, but I'm not seeing an elite player.

At least Beal isn't Harrison Barnes. I never could make sense of people wanting a clearly inferior prospect like Barnes over others simply because of his skill-set. I could definitely live with Beal becoming a Wizard, just not with the #2 pick in the draft.

Jenkins, if he lasts to the 2nd round, would certainly be a fine shooter to target.

That's not where I'm at. I want the best player with the best upside/ceiling, highest floor combo. I think the #1 example of that is Davis, the #2 is Beal or MKG. And Beal coming to Florida was super super super highly touted. Out of the freshman class coming in, i think the non-hype related rankings (just trying to vaguely remember) would have been:

1. Drummond
2. Davis
3. A. Rivers
4. Kidd-Gilchrist
5. Beal
6. McAdoo
7. Q. Miller
8. M. Teague
9. C. Zeller

There's a big pile of guys that would have fought for the 10 slot. All 8 of the top 8 received 98/100 on the espnu grades and 5 star rankings, and i ranked them according to what I recalled from the NBA scouting report/mocks coming out last summer.

Beal was considered a stud, he didnt put it together at all at Florida early on. Since February he really, really, really turned it on (kind of like Barnes last year, but even better). He's been outstanding the past two months which is why he's flown up anywhere from 6-10 slots on peoples draft charts. He was seen as in that 9-12 area on January 31st, 6-8 on February 29th, and now 2-6.

I think he can be an elite player. I really think he can. I think his floor is similar to Robinson's while his ceiling is higher. I think MKG has the highest ceiling of anyone not named Davis or Drummond, but the catalyst for that ceiling being reached is really probably the hardest thing to develop after a motor. I think he can do it, but Im not really sure. At the end of the day, I think the team will be debating MKG, Beal, and Barnes when it picks come draft day.

[DCZards]

I know this isn't popular on this board but Rivers has a better shot at being Wade w/ his 1st step and ability to create for himself....

You'll get no argument from me about Rivers. I've been saying for the last few weeks that he's underrated by some of the draft gurus--as well as some on this board. People criticize River's selfishness and shot selection...and rightfully so. But Rivers has the bball skills, the physical tools and, maybe most importantly, the competitiveness to be a special player at the next level.

[The Consiglieri]

I know this isn't popular on this board but Rivers has a better shot at being Wade w/ his 1st step and ability to create for himself....

Rivers has a way lower ceiling than Wade. I don't see that at all. Heard one of the scout guys on the radio the other day saying going back to Duke would help him a lot as he needs to learn how to be him on the court and stop trying to be like his idol Kobe when he doesn't have the physical tools to be Kobe.