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Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

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Is Jan Vesely a Bust?

Yes, I've seen enough, Jan Vesely is a Bust for a 6th pick
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76%
No, let's wait to see how he plays with JW and Nene
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24%
 
Total votes: 162

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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#741 » by closg00 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:56 pm

nate33 wrote:From Vesely's twitter account:

Jan Vesely ‏@JanVesely24 1 Aug
2 month, 6 days a week, 1,000 shoots a day, weight training, running, conditioning, ball handling, etc. http://youtu.be/2V6_4GxKZXg


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6_4GxKZXg&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Man, he sure looks good in practice. He's so incredibly long and he can leap with such ease. Too bad he's fools gold though. His athletic gifts just don't translate into an NBA game.

I refuse to get my hopes up. I'm just going to assume he'll suck again to insulate myself from disappointment. If he proves me wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


:nod: I expect to see some improvements this season, but nothing that would justify our selecting him at 6. The most we can hope for is that he will shoot with confidence and at a higher%...still not enough.

Edit: Dude needs to fricken bulk-up, he's a stick with no muscle. 3rd :noway: PF/C?
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#742 » by hands11 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:58 pm

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:
payitforward wrote:The best guide to how a player is likely to play in the future is how he's played in the past. You do understand that, right?

"I get a feeling" that what happens with most players will happen with Jan Vesely. He'll show up this season and be... Jan Vesely. When he plays, he'll play like Jan Vesely.

Is that always true ?

I suppose nothing is *always* true, hands -- but it's certainly what usually happens. As in almost always.


Almost always ? Ahh.

This is a very specific situation, PIF. Using blanket phrases is not a good way to predict outcomes.

What "usually" happens is a good piece of information if you have defined the situation well. To use that statement regarding Ves, you are ignoring way to many facts regarding this specific situation.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#743 » by Knighthonor » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:40 pm

closg00 wrote:
nate33 wrote:From Vesely's twitter account:

Jan Vesely ‏@JanVesely24 1 Aug
2 month, 6 days a week, 1,000 shoots a day, weight training, running, conditioning, ball handling, etc. http://youtu.be/2V6_4GxKZXg


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6_4GxKZXg&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Man, he sure looks good in practice. He's so incredibly long and he can leap with such ease. Too bad he's fools gold though. His athletic gifts just don't translate into an NBA game.

I refuse to get my hopes up. I'm just going to assume he'll suck again to insulate myself from disappointment. If he proves me wrong, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


:nod: I expect to see some improvements this season, but nothing that would justify our selecting him at 6. The most we can hope for is that he will shoot with confidence and at a higher%...still not enough.

Edit: Dude needs to fricken bulk-up, he's a stick with no muscle. 3rd :noway: PF/C?


During the Summer he was pulling off some Zeller type numbers. So maybe he could be worth his pick if he can continue that into the NBA.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#744 » by hands11 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:54 pm

PIF

Your statement of "The best guide to how a player is "likely" to play in the future is how he's played in the past." doesn't get it done. Actually, its almost meaningless. We know young player regularly show improvement and we know older players "always" eventually wind down. So the more definitive statement is that we know all players will eventually get worse, not that young players wont get better.

Players "usually" get better when they put in a lot of work on their game. Specially players that are early in the NBA careers. They get in better shape by eating right and working out properly. They improve their shooting if they actually working on it over and over. Even older player add things when they work on it. They learn the schemes by studying and working with coaches. Those things "usually" produce positive results. Given there isn't some overriding combination of physical characteristics limiting them such as to slow and uncoordinated. Short and no first step. I don't think that fits for Ves or Kevin.

So I would trump your statement with, players that put in the work, usually get better. And that's where we are with Ves and Kevin. Both have the raw physical tools so that isn't capping their upside. And both are working to improve their physical tools. Kevin needed to lose the baby fat and Ves needs to get stronger. That gives them a better chance to product results with "effort and skills" improvement. So are they working on improving their "skills" this off season? From what I see, the clear answer is yes.

Ves is putting in a lot of shooting practice. Something Wall did the previous offseason. Remember Walls broken shot ?

What about NBA level "effort and focus". That one I can't answer as well. We probably have to wait until they play NBA games again to see that. And for me, this is the biggest concern for both. Both haven't seemed to have what it takes mentally. And from my observation, that's the skills where there is the biggest gap between players. Wall and Beal are mental warriors. Ves and Kevin aren't there but can improve.

Actually, regarding "effort". I would say the commitment to put in the work this of season shows "effort" and that's likely to translate into games. You gain some confidence by knowing you put in the work. And by putting in a lot of hard work, you get mentally stronger. So I expect both to show better effort in real games.

So for this specific situation regarding Ves, a player coming into his 3rd year. A big who they asked to change position from SF to PF/C, who didn't buy into it completely. A player with good physical skills, who sees the floor well and can pass. Who needed to improve his body and show more effort in the off season to improve his body and shooting skills. Do I think its more likely then not that he shows measurable improvement ?

Yes I do. Same with Kevin.

My question isn't if they will improve, but by how much and can either achieve the efficient swag territory.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#745 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:09 pm

I do think Vesely will improve quite a bit this season.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#746 » by hands11 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:04 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I do think Vesely will improve quite a bit this season.


Quite a bit...Hmm. Lets see if we can define that some.

Here is some Ves background for those that have forgotten..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Vesel%C3%BD

Veselý began playing basketball with the youth clubs of Příbor and BK Snakes Ostrava in the Czech Republic. He joined Geoplin Slovan in 2007. He then moved to KK Partizan in 2008. He won nine club trophies with the club,[5] and also reached the 2009–10 Euroleague Final Four. In 2010, Veselý was presented the FIBA Europe Young Men's Player of the Year Award. At his last match with Partizan, the final of the 2010–11 Serbian League, the team captain Petar Božić let Veselý lift the winning trophy, while the audience gave him a standing ovation.

He isn't a pure suck prospect. He posted decent per 36 number his first year. But last year was rough. You know who else had a rather uneven start landing as a top pick to a team that was still getting blown up.

John Wall.

But he turned it around after he put in a lot of work in the off season. We often said, if Wall could ever find his range from outside, it would totally change his game. Well he did and it did. Wall turned it around in what looked like a blink of an eye, but it was far more then that. He put in a lot of work.

Beal also turned it around. Went from one of the worst 3 ball shooter in the league to one the best. People questioned what we actually had gotten in Beal. Then he turned it on.

Ves is an interesting prospect. 7-0, can run, sees the court well. Good coordination. But he isn't a Rodman or Fared type rebounder. He has to be able to shoot from outside if he wants consistent court time. And he need consistent court time if he is going to have a shoot at reaching his potential. Of which I think there is still a lot there. Its just hard for most here to see because they can't imagine he with a good outside shoot and him taking it with confidence. Well, we didn't see Wall doing it either.

So if everything were to go right with Ves, what kind of player would he become? What would his game look like ? I have to assume someone has talked with him about this.

Ves's Euro game was at SF, transition, where he was given free rain to play his game and he had confidence. So did his teammates and coaches in him. He even shot some from outside.

His one definable NBA move coming into the league was the one dribble blow by his man going to the hoop. Well to do that in the NBA, you have to be able to shoot to set it up. And since he can pass well, once he can hit from outside, he can start that drive and pass to a cutter if the defense rotates to him. That would be pretty AK47, which was is upside comp coming to the league.

For Ves, its going to be all about him finding his shot. And once he does, he is going to look legit because he actually has good size, speed and other secondary skills like, seeing the court, passing and dunking.

2 month, 6 days a week, 1,000 shoots a day, weight training, running, conditioning, ball handling, etc. http://youtu.be/2V6_4GxKZXg

Well he is putting in the work. That was my biggest concern. And he seems to have passed that test. Seems to work out with the GF around some. Not really a fan of that. But he is still young. At least she played ball.

His form looks good. And while its only practice, he was even hitting from the 3 line. Well there isn't as much difference for a 7-0 player doing that in practice and a game as there is for a 6-5 player. That high release is out of the range of most players trying to block it. And with that kind of height, its easier to pump fake, reload and shoot because he doesn't need to jump to shoot the shot.

Keep shooting 1000 a day Jan. Then come show us some Vanchise.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#747 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:01 am

hands11 wrote:His form looks good. And while its only practice, he was even hitting from the 3 line.


The high school 3PT line. The Euro line. That ain't no NBA three line.

Yeah with Jan and KSera all working the outside shot, seems like the organization said to Ernie's Kids: Look there ain't a ton of PT available, so all y'all who are tired of sitting on the bench better work on the outside shot that John wants, since he's playing 40 mins a game and if you want minutes next to him you better make him happy. One of you'se dudes better deliver.

Ernie was cryptic in suggesting that the stretch four the team sought may have already been on the team. Fans all wondered who he was talking about. Looks like he didn't necessarily know either, just told the fellas : 'learn to shoot' and hopefully one pans out.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#748 » by jangles86 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:09 pm

I'm really rooting for him. It would be a massive bonus to this team if he could show why he was a top ten pick
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#749 » by dobrojim » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:42 pm

yes less than the NBA 3 pt line

but while that would be great, it's never probably going to be something
he's asked or expected to do unless he /really/ improves. FWIW which is probably
very little, he wasn't toed up to that line either.

It was just be a solid indicator for him to regain some agressiveness in showing
a lack of fear of actually having to shoot FTs in a game in front of 1000s of people...
Just grabbing broads instead of trying to tap them to teammates.

He needs to get the kind of nasty tude that Griffin has. He dunks with such ease
he needs to make himself feared/respected for that.

Again, not saying I think any of this will happen. But as Doc said, considering how
bad he sucked this past year, he would have difficulty doing worse.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#750 » by BigA » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:42 pm

doclinkin wrote:
hands11 wrote:His form looks good. And while its only practice, he was even hitting from the 3 line.


The high school 3PT line. The Euro line. That ain't no NBA three line.

Yeah with Jan and KSera all working the outside shot, seems like the organization said to Ernie's Kids: Look there ain't a ton of PT available, so all y'all who are tired of sitting on the bench better work on the outside shot that John wants, since he's playing 40 mins a game and if you want minutes next to him you better make him happy. One of you'se dudes better deliver.

Ernie was cryptic in suggesting that the stretch four the team sought may have already been on the team. Fans all wondered who he was talking about. Looks like he didn't necessarily know either, just told the fellas : 'learn to shoot' and hopefully one pans out.


They should have had Alec Baldwin come give his talk from Glengary Glen Ross. "First prize is playing time next to John Wall. Second prize...set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired."
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#751 » by hands11 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:52 am

jangles86 wrote:I'm really rooting for him. It would be a massive bonus to this team if he could show why he was a top ten pick


Gynormious

Adding a jumper would be huge. It turned Wall from a interesting athletic PG with blazing speed who can end to end and pass into a max player with D Rose or maybe even better, potential.

If we turn around and find we have a young AK47 jr type on the roster, that's would be HUGE.

Understandable if no one expects it to happen. But I like the offseason he is having so far. The potential is there. Just needs to add shooting and that comes from proper practice. With that comes confidence.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2013/08/jan ... -2013.html

Interesting...

The team of course is headlined by Washington Wizards second-year player, Vesely, and 2012 draftee, Tomas Satoransky. “Honza” Vesely is listed at power forward, but Budinsky said he plans to use him as a part-time small forward. “For me personally, Honza Vesely is more of a small forward,” the coach said. Jan will likely end up being a small-ball center, too. Budinsky also opined that, with Vesely’s style of play, he can be useful as a pick-and-roll finishing center.

What Ves is focused on..

mainly drives to the basket from the high post, back-to-the-basket drills, ball-handling, and jump shots.

“I’ve been working out really hard for two months. It was a drudgery but it was actually good, I gained confidence. It gave me a lot of positives. The NBA Summer League helped me to try it out competitive games and I really felt better out there.”

One interesting subplot of the camp: Vesely wearing jersey No. 41 (which I tweeted a picture of). If you don’t follow me on Twitter and are asking why … make no mistake, Honza chose the number because of Dirk Nowitzki, his favorite player growing up. One Czech sports site even ran an article suggesting that Jan’s basically the second coming of Nowitzki, and that Jan’s personal coach, Mirsad Alilovic, has the magic touch of Dirk’s legendary mentor/coach Holger Geschwindner. Well, it would be amazing for the Wizards if it could come true, right?
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#752 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:19 pm

hands11 wrote:...Vesely wearing jersey No. 41 ...because of Dirk Nowitzki, his favorite player growing up. One Czech sports site even ran an article suggesting that Jan’s basically the second coming of Nowitzki, and that Jan’s personal coach, Mirsad Alilovic, has the magic touch of Dirk’s legendary mentor/coach Holger Geschwindner. Well, it would be amazing for the Wizards if it could come true, right?

Whoa! That's it. Now I'm convinced. I mean... he's wearing the same jersey number! And the article on that Czech sports site -- what could be more convincing than that!

When you add Mirsad Alloverit, who is just like Holger Getswindedor (I mean, come on, we know that's true; it was written on the very same Czech sports site!)

Only thing is -- I know Holger Getswindedor. Mirsad Alloverit is no Holger Getswindedor.

(You are probably thinking "he's been waiting a long time to write that sentence." You are probably right.)
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#753 » by Nivek » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:08 pm

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:...Vesely wearing jersey No. 41 ...because of Dirk Nowitzki, his favorite player growing up. One Czech sports site even ran an article suggesting that Jan’s basically the second coming of Nowitzki, and that Jan’s personal coach, Mirsad Alilovic, has the magic touch of Dirk’s legendary mentor/coach Holger Geschwindner. Well, it would be amazing for the Wizards if it could come true, right?

Whoa! That's it. Now I'm convinced. I mean... he's wearing the same jersey number! And the article on that Czech sports site -- what could be more convincing than that!

When you add Mirsad Alloverit, who is just like Holger Getswindedor (I mean, come on, we know that's true; it was written on the very same Czech sports site!)

Only thing is -- I know Holger Getswindedor. Mirsad Alloverit is no Holger Getswindedor.

(You are probably thinking "he's been waiting a long time to write that sentence." You are probably right.)


I'm just pissed you got to write this line first. I've been waiting for years -- ever since Dirk was a prospect -- but there was never a time. Now the time comes and I'm beaten to the punch. By YOU! :nonono:
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#754 » by tontoz » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:16 pm

Yet another reminder why a certain poster sits alone in my filter. The unintentional comedy is not enough of a reason to wade through that nonsense.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#755 » by AFM » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:07 am

Close this thread. It's hurting Vesely's feelings.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#756 » by montestewart » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:57 am

AFM wrote:Close this thread. It's hurting Vesely's feelings.

He should show up in camp with a shaved head, a long Andrei Rublev beard, a scar on his cheek, Russian prison tats, and no feelings.

The EnVorcer.

They said something about that on the Czech website, didn't they?
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#757 » by AFM » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:58 am

Maybe he can have a naked knife fight with Harrington in a sauna while he's at it.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#758 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:02 pm

payitforward wrote:Only thing is -- I know Holger Getswindedor. Mirsad Alloverit is no Holger Getswindedor.

You sir, have just won the internet.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#759 » by hands11 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:26 pm

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:...Vesely wearing jersey No. 41 ...because of Dirk Nowitzki, his favorite player growing up. One Czech sports site even ran an article suggesting that Jan’s basically the second coming of Nowitzki, and that Jan’s personal coach, Mirsad Alilovic, has the magic touch of Dirk’s legendary mentor/coach Holger Geschwindner. Well, it would be amazing for the Wizards if it could come true, right?

Whoa! That's it. Now I'm convinced. I mean... he's wearing the same jersey number! And the article on that Czech sports site -- what could be more convincing than that!

When you add Mirsad Alloverit, who is just like Holger Getswindedor (I mean, come on, we know that's true; it was written on the very same Czech sports site!)

Only thing is -- I know Holger Getswindedor. Mirsad Alloverit is no Holger Getswindedor.

(You are probably thinking "he's been waiting a long time to write that sentence." You are probably right.)


Do you find any joy in following this team or are you just here to act like a troll and piss on everything that fans of this team share regarding the players, coaches, etc.

Honestly. It's beyond old.

Obviously Ves isn't Dirk and it would be lofty to say the least that he would ever become Dirk. But honestly, Dirk is a HOF candidate. Not many players will ever play at the level Dirk did.

Right now he is fighting to be relevant in the NBA. First things first.

That said, I have zero problem with him having Dirk as his role model or even having that as a target for who he would want to become. Actually, I like that he has high goals longer term. If you don't believe in yourself, no one else will.
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Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust 

Post#760 » by keynote » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:31 pm

Lukas Kuba on Harrington's impact on Vesely:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Luke_Mellow/status/367639015240908801[/tweet]

At least Jan's camp is saying Jan is "highly motivated."
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