Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

[gambitx777]

I think we need to go in to dump mode, not get an over paid player mode. I think we could move NENE and okafur for something like these.
(light filler = martin or the rights to emeir or thomas) (2ed round pick = 2013 nyk, 2014 wiz, 2015 wiz and LAC)
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a32c37e
C's get okafur-maybe light filler or future second rounder
wiz get green, lee and 2013 first.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ael3php
Nets get NENE-maybe light filler or future second rounder
Wiz get humphries, brooks and 2013 or 2014 first round pick
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a6sc5bb
hawks get okafur- maybe light filler or future second round pick
wiz get Zaza, morrow, petro and one of there two 2013 second round picks.

then if we still want gay we can make an offer of ariz and filler (crawford singleton booker etc.)

[The Consiglieri]

This 3-game win streak has me thinking....

Would now be a good time to sell high on our draft pick? I feel we might play .500 ball or better to finish out the season. That would move us out of a top-3 pick in all likelihood and move us into the 4-10 range.

However, I think we might be the only people who realistically expect us to play .500 ball from here on out. It's not that it's unrealistic but rather that the name "Wizards" has such a negative and awful connotation that it is simply expected that we'll continue to be terrible.

I think whoever we would trade our 1st rounder to would be expecting a top-3 pick which is incredibly valuable.

Note: This isn't to say I want to trade the pick for Gay. I think that would be a terrible mistake. But if there's a reputable trade for a star-level talent (maybe Cousins or someone of his potential/realized potential), we should consider pursuing it.

Nah, our slow start, hell our pitifiul start gave Wall and the complete team basically 50 games, barring futher injury (further injury is more likely, not less, of course), to attempt to play .400-.500 ball. They are not a .500 team. I just don't see it, 3 game winning streak not withstanding. .400 i could see, and 25 wins or so should lock us in the area of about the top 5-6.

I am w/the minority that would pretty much be pushed to turn in my fandom if the trade involved any building blocks, and since it would, I'd pretty much be done. Like many, I've given the team thirty years of my life, far too much time, money and expense, and will not give it a single dime more of money, or minute more of time if they commit yet another pitiful pratfall in their desperate effort to save this idiots job. Like everyone else, I have better things to do with my time.

[verbal8]

This 3-game win streak has me thinking....

Would now be a good time to sell high on our draft pick? I feel we might play .500 ball or better to finish out the season. That would move us out of a top-3 pick in all likelihood and move us into the 4-10 range.

I think whoever we would trade our 1st rounder to would be expecting a top-3 pick which is incredibly valuable.

Note: This isn't to say I want to trade the pick for Gay. I think that would be a terrible mistake. But if there's a reputable trade for a star-level talent (maybe Cousins or someone of his potential/realized potential), we should consider pursuing it.

I do see the theory behind your proposed move. The only guy I can see being possibly available and worth it is Love. The wolves might be desperate enough to do the deal for Nene and the pick.

[The Fax]

Muhammad > Gay

Noel> Gay

Zeller> Gay

All this talk about a weak draft, I don't see it. Gay is essentially a high-flying, less playmaking version of prime Caron Butler.

Don't do it Ernie...please

[dangermouse]

I like the idea of Nene to the Nets for Hump + incentive. Nene could really help them, and after next year we have a clear cap with only Wall to get a big-ish contract. Im not sure the Nets go for it though, Hump has an interesting contract that other teams might give something better than Nene for.

[BruceO]

if we do trade for gay..something like ariza, crawford, singleton and vesely for gay, selby and their pick would be ideal for me. don't know if numbers work. we would possibly play ourselves out of a good draft pick. in that case draft pick plus seraphin for cousin and possibly tyreke would be my other ideal scenario.
wall/ aj/ selby
beal/ martell/ tyreke
gay/ lebryant nash or otto porter
nene/ booker
cousins/ emeka

bench would be depleted though. just prefer a trade for cousins without giving up wall, beal or a chance at shabbazz.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't think Gay is a bad player, I think he makes about 6-7 mil more than he ought to given his production. I do not think Gay is better then Shabazz, Noel, Ben or Len. (yes i know Shabazz is the only SF among that group). I wouldn't give up more than Ariza+JC+filler for him. Although our primary target should still be Cousins.

Wall ought to do everything in his power to try to blowout the kings tomorrow, if Cousins sees the potential we have building here, he may try to force something. Wall needs to use tomorrow as a recruitment day. Now if we're able to pull off a Gay trade for cheap and a Cousins trade for something like Seraphin+Okafor+top 5 protect lotto

a team of

Wall/Tomas/Price
Beal/Temlpe
Gay/Martell (I'd love to retain him)
Nene/Booker
Cousins/Jan

Should be worth a damn...

That lineup would be really, really, really good, nuposse04.

I would prefer Kevin over Booker with that group because of Booker's size/health/contract year concerns. Also, Kevin is potentially the best post defender of that group. He's also somewhat of a go-to scorer. So, if Kevin does not have to be included to get Cousins that would be sweet IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

if we do trade for gay..something like ariza, crawford, singleton and vesely for gay, selby and their pick would be ideal for me. don't know if numbers work. we would possibly play ourselves out of a good draft pick. in that case draft pick plus seraphin for cousin and possibly tyreke would be my other ideal scenario.
wall/ aj/ selby
beal/ martell/ tyreke
gay/ lebryant nash or otto porter
nene/ booker
cousins/ emeka

bench would be depleted though. just prefer a trade for cousins without giving up wall, beal or a chance at shabbazz.

I think the Wizards should hold on to Vesely and even Seraphin if possible. I would not give up that much for Rudy Gay. I can see giving up Kevin for Cousins, but I can't see keeping Emeka as a sub and having no quickness/length/youth off the bench.

BruceO, in this case I would actually prefer Seraphin and the pick over Cousins because this draft is pretty strong and I think the frontcourt would take too much of a hit depth-wise. I'm not a huge Noel fan, but his length and defensive potential would be something I would prefer for this frontcourt.

I like adding Selby--because he is a really good scorer who for reasons IMO unrelated to basketball has not had much of an opportunity or when he has he has not made the most of it yet.

[nate33]

if we do trade for gay..something like ariza, crawford, singleton and vesely for gay, selby and their pick would be ideal for me. don't know if numbers work. we would possibly play ourselves out of a good draft pick. in that case draft pick plus seraphin for cousin and possibly tyreke would be my other ideal scenario.
wall/ aj/ selby
beal/ martell/ tyreke
gay/ lebryant nash or otto porter
nene/ booker
cousins/ emeka

bench would be depleted though. just prefer a trade for cousins without giving up wall, beal or a chance at shabbazz.

I think the Wizards should hold on to Vesely and even Seraphin if possible. I would not give up that much for Rudy Gay. I can see giving up Kevin for Cousins, but I can't see keeping Emeka as a sub and having no quickness/length/youth off the bench.

BruceO, in this case I would actually prefer Seraphin and the pick over Cousins because this draft is pretty strong and I think the frontcourt would take too much of a hit depth-wise. I'm not a huge Noel fan, but his length and defensive potential would be something I would prefer for this frontcourt.

I like adding Selby--because he is a really good scorer who for reasons IMO unrelated to basketball has not had much of an opportunity or when he has he has not made the most of it yet.

It's pretty much impossible to trade for both Gay and Cousins unless we give up Nene. The problem is, Nene and Gay would still be on the books when we had to resign Wall and Cousins.

I still say we should just go after Cousins and leave it at that. Ariza and Webster are doing fine at SF and should hold down the fort until our 2013 or 2014 draft pick are ready to take over at that position.

If we end up trading Seraphin + Vesely for Cousins, I think the next move would be to try and trade Okafor for a veteran PF with a contract that expires in 2010. I think Nene is out of position at PF and would be better off playing the 18-20 minutes at C that Cousins doesn't play, plus another 10 minutes at PF alongside him. We would then look for a young, mobile PF in the draft to take over when that veteran's contract expired. Our rotation would look like this:

PG Wall/Price
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Webster/Ariza
PF Vet PF/2013 pick
C Cousins/Nene

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think the Wizards should hold on to Vesely and even Seraphin if possible. I would not give up that much for Rudy Gay. I can see giving up Kevin for Cousins, but I can't see keeping Emeka as a sub and having no quickness/length/youth off the bench.

BruceO, in this case I would actually prefer Seraphin and the pick over Cousins because this draft is pretty strong and I think the frontcourt would take too much of a hit depth-wise. I'm not a huge Noel fan, but his length and defensive potential would be something I would prefer for this frontcourt.

I like adding Selby--because he is a really good scorer who for reasons IMO unrelated to basketball has not had much of an opportunity or when he has he has not made the most of it yet.

It's pretty much impossible to trade for both Gay and Cousins unless we give up Nene. The problem is, Nene and Gay would still be on the books when we had to resign Wall and Cousins.

I still say we should just go after Cousins and leave it at that. Ariza and Webster are doing fine at SF and should hold down the fort until our 2013 or 2014 draft pick are ready to take over at that position.

If we end up trading Seraphin + Vesely for Cousins, I think the next move would be to try and trade Okafor for a veteran PF with a contract that expires in 2010. I think Nene is out of position at PF and would be better off playing the 18-20 minutes at C that Cousins doesn't play, plus another 10 minutes at PF alongside him. We would then look for a young, mobile PF in the draft to take over when that veteran's contract expired. Our rotation would look like this:

PG Wall/Price
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Webster/Ariza
PF Vet PF/2013 pick
C Cousins/Nene

I agree, nate. I don't want Gay and I think Nene would be the guy to keep with Cousins. Keep the pick, too, over being forced to committing early to resigning both Wall and Cousins long-term.

I'm actually reserved in my enthusiasm for adding Cousins. I don't want him resigned and Wall resigned if John Wall's knee isn't good to go for the very long haul. You also have to monitor Cousins volatility. Honestly, I think the best course could be to wait and see how things shake up. Try to put the best package with Okafor and future draft picks, plus adding Crawford, Singleton, and Booker for DeMarcus. I would even wait out Cousins' current great play and peak trade cost. I think keep Vesely and Seraphin with John Wall while they increase their value.

nate, you're right about not being able to afford Gay with Cousins and Nene.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Instead of going Wall/Cousins, what the Wizards could alternatively do is stockpile even more picks. In this draft I foresee Marcus Smart as perhaps being a real star in the making. Wall may make that interest a moot point, but I can think of a bunch of scenarios for going a completely different direction. If the Wizards win a few games and end up selecting 5th, I'm not sure I wouldn't draft Marcus Smart and think about trading assets and building around him. Clearly, McLemore and Smart are foundational pieces moving forward.

The Wizards could/should trade and acquire as many picks as they can IMO...

I really like Smart, McLemore, McCollum, lightly regarded Doug McDermott and of course freakish bigs Noel, Zeller, and Len. I also like many of the athletic swing men. Tony Mitchell is the type player who if he can play SF in the pros might become a star. Otto Porter would be great on the Wizards. Andre Roberson is not a scorer but the guy is an elite rebounder and defender at SF.

In trading players who are getting lost on the roster there are underrated players I think might help the Wizards: Jamaal Franklin, DeShaun Thomas, Michael Snaer, ERICK GREEN.

Guys who can shoot like McDermott and Green are the type players this roster can use. Also, end-to-end athletes are the main thing the Wizards need. Smart is an elite athlete. I don't know if he's coming out, but a guy like Victor Olapido would look really good filling the lane.

I like a lot of players in this draft.

I sort of forgot this is the trade thread. What I hope to see is the Wizards trade Crawford/Booker/Singleton as needed to retool with players who fill other needs. Jordan Crawford can really help a team like the Lakers or struggling teams with picks, like the Suns. They have three first rounders IIRC.

[tontoz]

I don't think a Cousins trade is even possible until the new ownership group takes over. The Maloofs certainly aren't going to trade him with a sale pending.

[shrink]

I floated this on the MIN board: curious about your thoughts on Nene's value.

WAS GIVES: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley
WAS GETS: Derrick Williams, Steimsma (exp), Roy (exp), Amundson (exp)

MIN GIVES: Derrick Williams, Barea, Steimsma, Roy, Amundson
MIN GETS: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley, Courtney Lee

BOS GIVES: Courtney Lee
BOS GETS: Barea

This is the "Derrick Williams for anything but Wall, Beal or our pick" trade that I hear mentioned on this thread sometimes.

[nate33]

You've posted other variations of this on the trade board omitting Nene and the expiring contracts. I'd much rather do that.

If Nene is included, the Wizards would definitely need to hang onto Seraphin.

[DCZards]

CCJ, I know how much you like to forecast talent coming out of college--and you're often pretty good at it. But I'm just not for blowing up the current Zards team (with trades for draft picks) with the "hope" that you can get the guys you want in the draft ...and the "hope" that these guys turn out to be as good as you project.

If the Zards can trade a spare part or two (Ves, Booker, Singleton, Crawford, even Seraphin, Nene, Ariza or Okafor) for an additional top 10-15 pick I'd be all for it. But I'd be just as happy building around the core of Wall, Beal and Seraphin, with Price, Ves, Crawford, Webster and Booker (if healthy) as bench guys...along, of course, with a Shabbaz or Noel as our next draft pick.

[jivelikenice]

^ Agreee...this isn't the time to start over, again. We have two very young and talented pieces in the backcourt that seem to compliment each other well in Wall and Beal. We have a solid group of bigs. The FO needs to find a way to get a major third piece, either through the draft or trade route to fill the 3 or stretch 4 spot. That's the missing piece....Get that piece and let the backcourt grow together before blosing it up.

[nate33]

^ Agreee...this isn't the time to start over, again. We have two very young and talented pieces in the backcourt that seem to compliment each other well in Wall and Beal. We have a solid group of bigs. The FO needs to find a way to get a major third piece, either through the draft or trade route to fill the 3 or stretch 4 spot. That's the missing piece....Get that piece and let the backcourt grow together before blosing it up.

I would focus less on the 3 and more on finding a building block big man. Okafor and Nene won't play forever, and it's far from certain that Seraphin will pan out to be an average or better starter.

I think Martell Webster, at his age, can be a starting-caliber SF for us for years to come. He's not a building block, but he's a sufficiently good place holder for me to rank SF as a lower priority.

[Ruzious]

I floated this on the MIN board: curious about your thoughts on Nene's value.

WAS GIVES: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley
WAS GETS: Derrick Williams, Steimsma (exp), Roy (exp), Amundson (exp)

MIN GIVES: Derrick Williams, Barea, Steimsma, Roy, Amundson
MIN GETS: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley, Courtney Lee

BOS GIVES: Courtney Lee
BOS GETS: Barea

This is the "Derrick Williams for anything but Wall, Beal or our pick" trade that I hear mentioned on this thread sometimes.

As nate alluded, I think including Nene makes a Derrick Williams to Wash trade more unlikely. Leonsis loves Nene, and Nene's ability to seamlessly alternate between C and PF gives the Wiz a lot of flexibility. I think you had previously proposed Seraphin, Crawford, and Vesely for Williams, and I think that's a pretty reasonable trade for both teams and is the kind of deal that would have a much better chance of happening than the one you proposed above.

[shrink]

I floated this on the MIN board: curious about your thoughts on Nene's value.

WAS GIVES: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley
WAS GETS: Derrick Williams, Steimsma (exp), Roy (exp), Amundson (exp)

MIN GIVES: Derrick Williams, Barea, Steimsma, Roy, Amundson
MIN GETS: Nene, Seraphin, J Crawford, Veseley, Courtney Lee

BOS GIVES: Courtney Lee
BOS GETS: Barea

This is the "Derrick Williams for anything but Wall, Beal or our pick" trade that I hear mentioned on this thread sometimes.

As nate alluded, I think including Nene makes a Derrick Williams to Wash trade more unlikely. Leonsis loves Nene, and Nene's ability to seamlessly alternate between C and PF gives the Wiz a lot of flexibility. I think you had previously proposed Seraphin, Crawford, and Vesely for Williams, and I think that's a pretty reasonable trade for both teams and is the kind of deal that would have a much better chance of happening than the one you proposed above.

I understand, and thanks for the insight.

I just got very little traction on the MIN side with the original deal from MIN fans.

Still waiting on the Nene version.

[LyricalRico]

I would focus less on the 3 and more on finding a building block big man. Okafor and Nene won't play forever, and it's far from certain that Seraphin will pan out to be an average or better starter.

I'm not sure what Utah's plan is, but could Milsap be available in a trade-and-extend scenario? Probably would need a third team, though.