Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[barelyawake]

Teams trade old players who are about to leave anyway. Or players that are causing problems because they don’t want to stick around for a rebuild. Or players who merely want to chase a ring. Or they want to get rid of other contracts, and package them together. Or they merely want to trim money off the expenses.

It is my belief that both Ariza and Gasol are likely to end up on other teams by Allstar break. Perhaps the Spurs slap it all together again, but I’m just not feeling it for them, this year. There are already trade rumors written about both players I’m suggesting. If the Spurs come out to a slow start, I think they are smart enough to start selling the farm and reloading. I certainly could be wrong about that. Yes, Ariza just got signed, but that’s a placeholder and he’s not sticking there.

Thanks Dat, Ruz and CCJ.

It’s not about getting a better player. It’s about getting a better player who can be relied upon and trusted in a playoff situation when everyone else’s shot isn’t falling, and the players are just about to start blaming one another. Rookies don’t give teams that. Leaders with cache do. If we had one of those guys (instead of relying on Rivers and Green to be that guy), I believe this might be the greatest Wizards team in my fandom (mind you I started a Riley/Magic fan, then Riley/Zo fan, took me sometime to back the home team).

[pcbothwel]

Serious Question. Do people here really think that Ted is going to pay the repeater tax?!?
Its laughable to think he, or any owner would for a non-championship caliber team.

All these trades are interesting to ponder, but the truth is we are getting under the tax, that is the trade.

Personally, I think the trade will revolve around something to do with Mahinmi, Smith and our 1st, with less salary to spread/waive and less valuable asset coming back.

I.E. Mahinmi, Smith + 2019 1st for:
Asik + 2nd/Portis
Shumpert/Randolph + 2nd
JR Smith

Its a terrible mismanagement of assets... but it doesnt "Kill us" because:

1) Our pick should be in the 20's
2) We got Brown
3) Dropping Mahinmi for next year allows us to retain Oubre/Sato AND use the Full MLE. Assuming we are patient, I think we might find a real solid player for 4/38M next year.

[Eli Babak]

Ted is already a laughing matter because he has given Ernie a lifetime contract. But if they want to avoid tax, it's going to be something like Morris and Satoransky for 2nd round picks and then they sign waived players and/or guys from China to fill out the roster.

Edit: Then next year Sanon comes to NBA and turns out to be a better player than Satoransky, Ernie strikes lucky in the draft and finds hidden gems and proceeds to win the GM of the year while the Wizards celebrate championship in June 2020...

[dckingsfan]

You guys make a good point - either we trade Mahimni or we trade one of Oubre/Satoransky (because we won't sign them both). With Mahimni, we probably need to include a first or Oubre. Like you said Satoransky + Smith for a completely protected 2nd.

And if I look at this (and trying to be objective ) - I think Sato doesn't play this year - I really don't think Brooks likes or trusts him as a player. So, I try to do that move as quickly as possible. But even that doesn't get us out of the tax this season (we need to reduce payroll by 12,743,989). That is difficult without moving either Mahimni, Rivers or one of Beal, Wall or Porter.

And no - Ted doesn't go for the repeater tax. I think next year's luxury tax line will be around 130M? We will be at 116 with 6 players on the payroll.

[DCZards]

And if I look at this (and trying to be objective ) - I think Sato doesn't play this year - I really don't think Brooks likes or trusts him as a player. So, I try to do that move as quickly as possible. But even that doesn't get us out of the tax this season (we need to reduce payroll by 12,743,989). That is difficult without moving either Mahimni, Rivers or one of Beal, Wall or Porter.

I hope (and expect) both Sato and Rivers to play a decent amount of minutes next season. That's the best way to ensure that Wall and Beal aren't playing more minutes than they should, which has been a problem in the past.

[dckingsfan]

And if I look at this (and trying to be objective ) - I think Sato doesn't play this year - I really don't think Brooks likes or trusts him as a player. So, I try to do that move as quickly as possible. But even that doesn't get us out of the tax this season (we need to reduce payroll by 12,743,989). That is difficult without moving either Mahimni, Rivers or one of Beal, Wall or Porter.

I hope (and expect) both Sato and Rivers to play a decent amount of minutes next season. That's the best way to ensure that Wall and Beal aren't playing more minutes than they should, which has been a problem in the past.

I hope but don't expect Sato to get many minutes in the early part of the season - I think there will have to be an injury for that to happen. But I hope you are the one that is right.

[payitforward]

Ted is already a laughing matter because he has given Ernie a lifetime contract. But if they want to avoid tax, it's going to be something like Morris and Satoransky for 2nd round picks and then they sign waived players and/or guys from China to fill out the roster.

Edit: Then next year Sanon comes to NBA and turns out to be a better player than Satoransky, Ernie strikes lucky in the draft and finds hidden gems and proceeds to win the GM of the year while the Wizards celebrate championship in June 2020...

I want some of what you're smoking, Eli!!

[NatP4]

And if I look at this (and trying to be objective ) - I think Sato doesn't play this year - I really don't think Brooks likes or trusts him as a player. So, I try to do that move as quickly as possible. But even that doesn't get us out of the tax this season (we need to reduce payroll by 12,743,989). That is difficult without moving either Mahimni, Rivers or one of Beal, Wall or Porter.

I hope (and expect) both Sato and Rivers to play a decent amount of minutes next season. That's the best way to ensure that Wall and Beal aren't playing more minutes than they should, which has been a problem in the past.

I hope but don't expect Sato to get many minutes in the early part of the season - I think there will have to be an injury for that to happen. But I hope you are the one that is right.

I hope Austin Rivers improves his free throw shooting and builds off of last season and shoots something like 43/38/70 and improves his defense enough, to the point where he is just below average instead of terrible. plays about 15 minutes a game or so.

Sato-Rivers-Brown-Green-Mahinmi can be a very good bench unit. I mean, really really good. you have 4 plus defenders and switchability across the board.

I promise you Sato and Brown Jr won't play hardly at all though. Don't underestimate how much of an idiot Scott Brooks is, He will use Jeff Green at the 3 and even some Rivers at the 3, which is awful to think about.

[payitforward]

Serious Question. Do people here really think that Ted is going to pay the repeater tax?!?
Its laughable to think he, or any owner would for a non-championship caliber team.

All these trades are interesting to ponder, but the truth is we are getting under the tax, that is the trade.

Personally, I think the trade will revolve around something to do with Mahinmi, Smith and our 1st, with less salary to spread/waive and less valuable asset coming back.

I.E. Mahinmi, Smith + 2019 1st for:
Asik + 2nd/Portis
Shumpert/Randolph + 2nd
JR Smith

Its a terrible mismanagement of assets... but it doesnt "Kill us" because:

1) Our pick should be in the 20's
2) We got Brown
3) Dropping Mahinmi for next year allows us to retain Oubre/Sato AND use the Full MLE. Assuming we are patient, I think we might find a real solid player for 4/38M next year.

Unfortunately, none of those suggested trades gets us out of the tax!

As it stands, we are $11+m over the tax with 14 players, which is the minimum. We'll have to take back the same number of players as we trade while dropping that sum.

I can't see how your "doesn't kill us" scenario is accurate either.

Next year, if Mahinmi is gone, we are at just under $96m for 4 players. Which would leave us $30m to re-sign Oubre & Sato, & add 8 more players to complete the minimum roster. Under the very conservative assumption that Oubre & Sato will cost a combined $17m in the first year of their new contracts, that Howard picks up his $5.6m option, & that we pick up Bryant's $1.8m option, we would be at @$120.5m for 8 players. 6 players short of a roster & only @$7m under the tax.

Your "real solid player for 4/38M" would put us over the tax with 10 guys.

Finally, how "We got Brown" figures into this I don't know. You're supposed to get a R1 pick every year; that's the idea. Why? Because not all of them work out. Troy Brown Jr. just turned 19. He might be a rotation player in the NBA some day, or he might never be that.

Perhaps you meant Thomas "Seismic" Bryant?

[pcbothwel]

I am assuming stretching anyone we get back. Asik would cost 2.7M per year for 5 years

I think one interesting trade would be Mahinmi, Smith, and Oubre for JR & Osman.
Smith for TPE is a separate trade for cap purposes.
JR is stretched for 3.6M and with Cedi counts 6.37M. We dump 24.6M, so that gives us about 6.5M to add 3 players for depth...easy.

Next year. we would still have Cedi for 3M and only need to sign Sato back.
Assuming Dwight comes back and Sato is signed for your assume starting salary of 7M... we'd have the following 10 players at 122M with Bryant, Devin Robinson, and our 1st

Wall / Rookie
Beal / Brown
Sato / Cedi
Otto / Robinson
Dwight / Bryant

I thought the Lux tax was at 132M next year, which gives us about 10M to add depth. We would certainly sign a Vet min or 2, so that puts us at about 8M left with 12 roster spots.
We can use (most) of the MLE and still be under the tax at 13. Add in a 14th player with vet min and a two way contract (Or 2) and we are right at the line, but not over.

[Eli Babak]

Stretching JR wouldn't be smart because he's basically an expiring (he can be bought out for ~4M next summer). I think Cavs fans like Osman and don't see them being interested in taking on Mahinmi's extra year and Oubre's extension too.

I really hope they don't try to avoid tax this year because Ted is responsible for creating this mess after all and he should be paying for it. But we know he loves $$$ so something stupid involving a 1st round pick is going to happen eventually.

[payitforward]

...I really hope they don't try to avoid tax this year because Ted is responsible for creating this mess after all and he should be paying for it. But we know he loves $$$ so something stupid involving a 1st round pick is going to happen eventually.

What is this "he loves $$$" billshut? The NBA is a business. If you run a business that doesn't show a profit, that business can't continue to exist.

Hey, I think Ted is a terrible owner. But, I'd think less of him not more if he let this mediocre team be a tax repeater!

Do you have any idea what that costs, Eli? If not, take a minute and inform yourself.

[barelyawake]

A bad business owner doesn’t see the merchandizing possible for a finals team, versus a team that has had bad press for three decades. I’m not saying pay the tax, I’m saying make the moves you need to make to be a finals team first and foremost. And not the kind of finals team that you pretend in your head (and no one else can see). One where it’s obvious you have a shot.

[Eli Babak]

Do you have any idea what that costs, Eli? If not, take a minute and inform yourself.

Yes, I know. I'm just naive and wish for things that never happen. The thing is that Ted should be well aware of the situation and the team is not in a position where it should be wasting assets to save money.

I guess they're not gonna get out of tax completely this year but Smith and Meeks will be dumped somewhere (2nd rounder and cash should be enough). And that's it, I'm just gonna stop before I start sounding like a broken record.

[payitforward]

I am assuming stretching anyone we get back. Asik would cost 2.7M per year for 5 years

I think one interesting trade would be Mahinmi, Smith, and Oubre for JR & Osman.
Smith for TPE is a separate trade for cap purposes.
JR is stretched for 3.6M and with Cedi counts 6.37M. We dump 24.6M, so that gives us about 6.5M to add 3 players for depth...easy.

Next year. we would still have Cedi for 3M and only need to sign Sato back.
Assuming Dwight comes back and Sato is signed for your assume starting salary of 7M... we'd have the following 10 players at 122M with Bryant, Devin Robinson, and our 1st

Wall / Rookie
Beal / Brown
Sato / Cedi
Otto / Robinson
Dwight / Bryant

I thought the Lux tax was at 132M next year, which gives us about 10M to add depth. We would certainly sign a Vet min or 2, so that puts us at about 8M left with 12 roster spots.
We can use (most) of the MLE and still be under the tax at 13. Add in a 14th player with vet min and a two way contract (Or 2) and we are right at the line, but not over.

I was wrong about the luxury tax -- but research tells me $131m not 132. Two-way contracts don't count against cap or tax I believe (& anyway each one can only reach $250K max).

If I were running the Cavs I wouldn't be interested in your proposed trade. I'd be paying an awful lot to replace Osman with Oubre -- & then I'd have to pay more sooner to retain Oubre. I'm rebuilding, you're in trouble -- I do no deal unless you take Jordan Clarkson.

OTOH, I can only get your 10-player team (w/ Osman) to add up to @$117-118m. (wall/beal/otto = $92.5m, Sato/Dwight = $12.5m, Brown/Cedi/Bryant = $8.2m, rookie/Robinson =$4m (?) ). ...No, I see it -- I forgot Smith's stretch.

Those 10 plus 3 veteran minimum players (ugh!) & whoever we get w/ the MLE would lose a lot of games, btw! Right now, the 2d 5 you list have a total of 650 minutes of NBA experience, all of it Osman's. Robinson's not an NBA player, we don't know that either Brown or Bryant is, or who the rookie would be....

Still, it's an effort -- you deserve commendation! What it illustrates is just how difficult our situation is. & that the only way out is the inevitable trade of one of Wall/Beal/Otto. If Wall is sacred (or untradeable), then it might even be both Beal & Porter traded -- providing a perfect illustration of an entire decade w/ essentially nothing to show for it!

[JAR69]

Weird question - could Wall be traded after next season ends (that is, a draft day type trade) with his cap number still the $19.2 million he is getting paid this year? The new league season doesn't start until July 1 and I didn't see anything in Larry Coon's FAQ prohibiting trades of players whose designated player extensions are about to kick in (see question 101).

Assuming next season falls short of hopes and dreams, and there is a desire to break up the big three/move Wall, that would leave the Wizards one last chance to trade him for a reasonable contract, if anyone would be willing to take him at that point. But I'm not sure it is legal.

[pcbothwel]

Still, it's an effort -- you deserve commendation! What it illustrates is just how difficult our situation is. & that the only way out is the inevitable trade of one of Wall/Beal/Otto. If Wall is sacred (or untradeable), then it might even be both Beal & Porter traded -- providing a perfect illustration of an entire decade w/ essentially nothing to show for it!

Thanks... Im not giving up. LOL.

Mahinmi & Oubre to Bucks for Snell & DJ Wilson.

- We save 6M immediately & get Wilson
- Bucks upgrade as Mahinmi is better than Snell and Oubre is better than Wilson
- They also get out of Snells last year, which is important for them as its Giannis's last year.
- Bucks stay under tax (barely)

Goal is to get within "Striking distance".
Striking distance = 6M of Lux tax. Enough to dump Meeks & Smith (9M) while signing 1-2 Vet min players (3M) and get under tax.

[payitforward]

No, don't give up. But... do you really want Tony Snell for $12m+ in '20-21? Overall, Snell is owed more than Mahinmi.

We would have $118m guaranteed to 5 players in 2020-21. Plus another $5-6m to '29 & '20 R1 picks. Not a particularly good team either.

Plus, what's the benefit to the franchise? If we aren't going to become better, then why not just do the logical and rebuild?

[pcbothwel]

No, don't give up. But... do you really want Tony Snell for $12m+ in '20-21? Overall, Snell is owed more than Mahinmi.

We would have $118m guaranteed to 5 players in 2020-21. Plus another $5-6m to '29 & '20 R1 picks. Not a particularly good team either.

Plus, what's the benefit to the franchise? If we aren't going to become better, then why not just do the logical and rebuild?

Im not worried about 20-21. We need to get under tax THIS YEAR. We have a two year window. Especially if Kyrie and Kawhi leave next year and Philly fails to add elite talent.

I think a good plan is this:
1) Get under tax this year by any means. Worst case, we simply stretch Mahinmi and are then within 3M (Including Vet Min for 1.5M). We then have many more options on cutting the additional amount.

2) Assuming we have a good year (Lets say, We lose in 7 games in 2nd round to Boston or Raptors), we then can retain the core, plus Howard, Sato, and Oubre... Brown will have experience, plus another 1st. We sign a player using the MLE and go back into the tax (Under the apron obviously of 138M).

So at this point, we are more or less running it back, but with key young players like Thomas, Oubre, Sato, Brown all having another year under their belt.
We would be in the tax, but NOT the repeater tax.

Thats it. We can enjoy the next two years and roll the dice... If we come up snake eyes, we begin rebuild with Beal in Summer 2020.

Im trying to be a fan, yet realistic. This is the best way to get the full look at our Trio with support pieces, not pay the repeater tax, and maintaining flexibility to cash out before their contracts expire if we dont make the leap.

Cashing out now seems a year early with the East in flux and our players under control.
And making a "Splash" move doesnt make any financial sense with our apparent ceiling as "Low level contender / Long shot".

This happy median may not have a "Wow" factor, but makes sense.

[dckingsfan]

No, don't give up. But... do you really want Tony Snell for $12m+ in '20-21? Overall, Snell is owed more than Mahinmi.

We would have $118m guaranteed to 5 players in 2020-21. Plus another $5-6m to '29 & '20 R1 picks. Not a particularly good team either.

Plus, what's the benefit to the franchise? If we aren't going to become better, then why not just do the logical and rebuild?

I think that many here believe that EG couldn't rebuild a franchise if his life depended on it. A little luck in getting Wall/Beal/Porter and he couldn't even manage that.

And if you want to make the trade with Sacramento and not give up a pick it would be Mahimni + Oubre for McLemore or something like that...