Political Roundtable Part XXVII

[Ruzious]

Yup, they pretty much can't do their job in many cases, as access is increasingly denied to anyone who is not in lock stop with the politicians in question. Hell, we have a WH Press Secretary that never has press conferences. Everything that's falling apart is by design from the WH.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

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please I’d like to see these single digit iq morons try to start a civil war. They’d be back to watching Fox News after their first encounter with the police.

[Pointgod]

i low-key have very little respect for journalists. i understand it's a very demanding job, and a very difficult one, but they are just butt at holding people accountable, or getting actual answers from their interviewees. it's completely dependent on access and scoops, and not so much in getting to the truth. and if you go after someone too hard, that access is cut off, and so you stick with softballs so you can keep your job.

"why are you investigating biden?"
"the corruption"
*next*

when it should be
"why are you investigating biden?"
"the corruption"
"what corruption?"
"burisma hiring hunter biden"
"any other instances of corruption?"
"many"
"like what?"
"many too many to count. everyone knows about it"
"like what?"
...

One of the legitimate criticisms of the corporate media is to appeal to right leaning viewers. This leads to weakass questioning and idiotic narratives instead of plainly stating facts and calling out bull. My eyes are going to roll out of my **** head if I hear one more person ask when will Republicans day enough is enough. It’s never going to happen, Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Corey Gardner are not going to save anything. The Republican Party is a cult, operating as a criminal organization lead by Donald Trump.

[gtn130]

I’m pretty sure DCK would tell you no. As I will.

If you want to say 90%, back it up.

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

[I_Like_Dirt]

I think that Pete ran a better campaign. While Beto was out hitting all the town halls, Pete was hitting all the talk shows.

Speaking of campaigns, Hasan Minhaj did Cory Booker a huuuuge favor with his last episode. I'm wondering if Booker's camp will be able to leverage anything - guessing not but the potential is there now, particularly with Harris out of the way.

[dckingsfan]

I’m pretty sure DCK would tell you no. As I will.

If you want to say 90%, back it up.

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

The problem is you made a wild assertion that has no factual basis (speculation). I have watched consultants work with both government entities and private entities and deliver more than fair value. I have watch botched implementations as well. What I have found is that the botched implementations are well publicized and the successes not so much. Where consultants can make a huge difference is when they have subject matter expertise that companies can't carry and only use occasionally.

Now if you want to get into the cluster that is Defense spending (both consulting and misalignment of needs) - I am right there with you.

And the problem I had is that you used that factual inaccuracy as the basis for eliminating a candidate. This is what the Rs are doing and you fell into the same trap.

Let's do another - it is obvious that Sanders is a socialist and not part of the Democratic party, therefore he should be eliminated from consideration. Clearly he is not a socialist (social democrat) - but those assertions hurt him nonetheless. And he votes and works with the D minority in the house and has done so for quite some time. And yet... post it out there and some will immediately latch on to this.

Or another - folks said that Warren lied about her kids going to public school. But when you break it down and look at the video - it isn't that clear cut. One of her kids went to public school and one spent some time in private school. So, should she be eliminated from consideration?

But alas, you probably stopped reading after the first sentence. Let's agree to disagree and move on...

[gtn130]

I’m pretty sure DCK would tell you no. As I will.

If you want to say 90%, back it up.

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

The problem is you made a wild assertion that has no factual basis (speculation). I have watched consultants work with both government entities and private entities and deliver more than fair value. I have watch botched implementations as well. What I have found is that the botched implementations are well publicized and the successes not so much. Where consultants can make a huge difference is when they have subject matter expertise that companies can't carry and only use occasionally.

Dude this defense of government contracting is absolutely just as speculative as anything I've put forward. You're totally blinded by your own personal experiences when you've probably directly witnessed only a handful of projects in your lifetime, and the substance of what you're saying doesn't even address the actual costs of the projects relative to how much they should cost and why they were outsourced in the first place.

I too can provide anecdotes from friends and family that align with my argument here. It proves nothing. You guys are just mad that I said your jobs shouldn't exist.

[Ruzious]

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

The problem is you made a wild assertion that has no factual basis (speculation). I have watched consultants work with both government entities and private entities and deliver more than fair value. I have watch botched implementations as well. What I have found is that the botched implementations are well publicized and the successes not so much. Where consultants can make a huge difference is when they have subject matter expertise that companies can't carry and only use occasionally.

Dude this defense of government contracting is absolutely just as speculative as anything I've put forward. You're totally blinded by your own personal experiences when you've probably directly witnessed only a handful of projects in your lifetime, and the substance of what you're saying doesn't even address the actual costs of the projects relative to how much they should cost and why they were outsourced in the first place.

I too can provide anecdotes from friends and family that align with my argument here. It proves nothing. You guys are just mad that I said your jobs shouldn't exist.

I thought they were even-handed in their comments without making wild speculations.

[gtn130]

The problem is you made a wild assertion that has no factual basis (speculation). I have watched consultants work with both government entities and private entities and deliver more than fair value. I have watch botched implementations as well. What I have found is that the botched implementations are well publicized and the successes not so much. Where consultants can make a huge difference is when they have subject matter expertise that companies can't carry and only use occasionally.

Dude this defense of government contracting is absolutely just as speculative as anything I've put forward. You're totally blinded by your own personal experiences when you've probably directly witnessed only a handful of projects in your lifetime, and the substance of what you're saying doesn't even address the actual costs of the projects relative to how much they should cost and why they were outsourced in the first place.

I too can provide anecdotes from friends and family that align with my argument here. It proves nothing. You guys are just mad that I said your jobs shouldn't exist.

I thought they were even-handed in their comments without making wild speculations.

Wow dude props to them for being such measured and responsible internet posters

[dobrojim]

I’m pretty sure DCK would tell you no. As I will.

If you want to say 90%, back it up.

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

You just made my point. You were BSing but tried to come off as something real. In actually,
you had nothing to back up your hyperbolic claim. Thank you for admitting it.

This thread has it's biggest problems when people BS but act as if they were quoting an almanac
and then try to defend it as if it were anything more than an opinion based on confirmation bias.

[gtn130]

I’m pretty sure DCK would tell you no. As I will.

If you want to say 90%, back it up.

Buddy, how could I ever prove that? It was obviously just speculation on my part. I have no idea what the exact figure is, but I imagine it's pretty high. If you want this thread to narrowly be a record of facts, maybe you should go read an almanac or something

You just made my point. You were BSing but tried to come off as something real. In actually,
you had nothing to back up your hyperbolic claim. Thank you for admitting it.

This thread has it's biggest problems when people BS but act as if they were quoting an almanac
and then try to defend it as if it were anything more than an opinion based on confirmation bias.

Man, what on earth are you talking about? I never once said I knew the exact number of government contractors who are literal grifters. My exact wording was "like 90%" as in I don't know the exact number but 90% is my guess - you then in turn claimed I said 100% and then and still claim I said precisely 90%. So while you're here demanding exact precision in every statement made on the internet, you're the one misquoting and misrepresenting what I'm saying without a shred irony.

If you think my guess is too high or too low, that's fine, but your demand that I somehow prove that precisely 90% of contractors are grifters is some of dumbest **** I've read in a while because it was never something I was actually ****ing saying.

The funny thing is that this topic is obviously just a sacred cow for everyone here, which isn't remotely surprising. DCkingsfan, the guy who thinks that every single government program is mismanaged, every policy is fiscally irresponsible, and every candidate running for office lacks fiscal and legislative acumen, he looks at the bloated, largely ineffective and often corrupt government contracting apparatus and says "nah this all checks out with me" because he has some skin in the game.

It's laughable and you guys should pause for a moment and show some self-awareness.

[pancakes3]

i think there is governmental waste, that government contracts is a different conversation than the government subcontracting its work, and the value-add of consulting as a field is a different conversation still. if after all that the trend of board conversation is still insistent on somehow bundling all of that into a single talking point? then yeah bigfed is wasteful but it's a necessary evil.

[dckingsfan]

If you think my guess is too high or too low, that's fine, but your demand that I somehow prove that precisely 90% of contractors are grifters is some of dumbest **** I've read in a while because it was never something I was actually ****ing saying.

The funny thing is that this topic is obviously just a sacred cow for everyone here, which isn't remotely surprising. DCkingsfan, the guy who thinks that every single government program is mismanaged, every policy is fiscally irresponsible, and every candidate running for office lacks fiscal and legislative acumen, he looks at the bloated, largely ineffective and often corrupt government contracting apparatus and says "nah this all checks out with me" because he has some skin in the game.

It's laughable and you guys should pause for a moment and show some self-awareness.

You set the bar - you said 90%. You didn't say that government is bloated - you said that contractors don't add value. You said this to disparage Buttigieg. And you didn't make the connection or back up any of your assertions - because you can't.

I don't think anyone thinks there is no bloat in the federal government - least of all me. Nor do I think that process improvement and underperforming program elimination isn't warranted. But I also don't think we should eliminate the use of contractors when warranted.

But now let's take on another false assertion. I am not a contractor. I don't work for a contractor. I don't not make any money off of the federal government. I have assisted others pro bono when they were trying to help a federal agency and I have a general understanding of the federal contracting process. I have zero skin in that game.

[queridiculo]

This.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/09/26/im-not-the-radical-left-im-the-humane-middle/

Apparently, I’ve been radicalized and I wasn’t aware.

Certain people call me the “radical Left” all the time.

I never considered myself radical before.
I just thought I was normal, ordinary, usual.
I thought equity was important to everyone.
I imagined America was filled with people who took that Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness stuff seriously—for all people.
I thought the Golden Rule was actually mainstream.

Recently I took an inventory of my positions, screening for the extremism:

I believe in full LGBTQ rights.
I believe we should protect the planet.
I believe everyone deserves healthcare.
I believe all religions are equally valid.
I believe the world is bigger than America.
I believe to be “pro-life,” means to treasure all of it.
I believe whiteness isn’t superior and it is not the baseline of humanity.
I believe we are all one interdependent community.
I believe people and places are made better by diversity.
I believe people shouldn’t be forced to abide by anyone else’s religion.
I believe non-American human beings have as much value as American ones.
I believe generosity is greater than greed, compassion better than contempt, and kindness superior to derision.
I believe there is enough in this world for everyone: enough food, enough money, enough room, enough care—if we unleash our creativity and unclench our fists.

I’m not sure how these ideas became radical, though it seems to have happened in the last few years.
I grew up being taught they were just part of being a decent human being.
I grew up believing that loving my neighbor as myself, meant that I actually worked for their welfare as much as my own.
I was taught that caring for the least in the world, was the measure of my devotion to God.
I thought that inalienable rights of other people were supposed to be a priority as a decent participant in the world.

I don’t think I’m alone.

In fact, I’m pretty sure that most people reside here in this place alongside me: the desire for compassion and diversity and equality and justice; that these things aren’t fringe ideologies or extremist positions—but simply the best way to be human.

I think most people want more humanity, not less.

I think the vast middle is exhausted by the cruelty of these days.

That these aspirations seem radical to some people, is probably an alarm that they’ve moved so far into the extremes of their fortified ideological bunkers and been so poisoned by the propaganda, that normal now seems excessive, that equality now seems oppressive, that goodness feels reckless.

Maybe the problem is, these people are so filled with fear for those who are different, so conditioned to be at war with the world, so indoctrinated into a white nationalistic religion of malice—that they’ve lost sight of what being a human being looks like anymore.

I am pretty sure that I don’t represent the “radical Left,” but the vast, disparate, compassionate, humane Middle; people who are not threatened by someone else’s presence, who do not see another person’s gain as their loss, who don’t worship a Caucasian, American god.

I suppose humanity feels radical to inhumane people.

In that case, I’ll gladly be here in my extremism.

[payitforward]

Here here !!!

[bsilver]

I was a contractor in the IT field for 18 years at the CIA before retiring in 2014. In IT the mix is about 85% contractor, and 15% government workers. The CIA decided they wanted to be in the spy and intelligence business, and their mission wasn't IT.

What I don't get is how we all missed that all those years that we were grifters. Even though all our projects were following govt direction we were producing little or anything of value. The worldwide networks I supported weren't really necessary, or would operate even if I ignored middle of the night calls. Applications to identify terrorists were little more than scams to fill our wallets.

Of course we weren't grifters. I don't get this whole discussion. I don't criticize anyone here (except PIF occasionally), but the claims made here recently are totally inane, and don't deserve responses, but for the some reason the discussion has continued.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[montestewart]

I was a contractor in the IT field for 18 years at the CIA before retiring in 2014. In IT the mix is about 85% contractor, and 15% government workers. The CIA decided they wanted to be in the spy and intelligence business, and their mission wasn't IT.

What I don't get is how we all missed that all those years that we were grifters. Even though all our projects were following govt direction we were producing little or anything of value. The worldwide networks I supported weren't really necessary, or would operate even if I ignored middle of the night calls. Applications to identify terrorists were little more than scams to fill our wallets.

Of course we weren't grifters. I don't get this whole discussion. I don't criticize anyone here (except PIF occasionally), but the claims made here recently are totally inane, and don't deserve responses, but for the some reason the discussion has continued.

The way governments award private contracts is always going to merit scrutiny due to the widespread opportunities for corruption. Much of the lobbying industry is built on government contracting. Much 'pork barrel" is tied to government contracting. Many campaign contributions are tied to government contracting. Proven and unproven accusations of favoritism, bid rigging, etc. often accompany government contracting.

On the other hand, much government contracting is related to downsizing the permanent workforce and filling those role as needed. If someone retires from the government, then the government realizes the need that role filled, and hires the retiree back on contract, doing the exact same job, is that a grift?

90%, like 90% as a guess, no real difference in phrasing there, still an unsupported assertion, adding "skin in the game," and "sacred cow" more of the same, with a little STD trolling to boot. Trump has encouraged the use of broad brush flame throwers.

I'm not a government contractor, and I don't work for the federal government, or any government, except at tax time. I think the government is too big, produces a lot of waste (like most organizations, big or small), and government contracting is a fair subject for discussion here. Maybe more actual information, less speculation, and fewer insults would help the conversation.

And don't forget, Mr. Small Government himself, Ross Perot, made his fortune largely off government contracting.

[dckingsfan]

I was a contractor in the IT field for 18 years at the CIA before retiring in 2014. In IT the mix is about 85% contractor, and 15% government workers. The CIA decided they wanted to be in the spy and intelligence business, and their mission wasn't IT.

What I don't get is how we all missed that all those years that we were grifters. Even though all our projects were following govt direction we were producing little or anything of value. The worldwide networks I supported weren't really necessary, or would operate even if I ignored middle of the night calls. Applications to identify terrorists were little more than scams to fill our wallets.

Of course we weren't grifters. I don't get this whole discussion. I don't criticize anyone here (except PIF occasionally), but the claims made here recently are totally inane, and don't deserve responses, but for the some reason the discussion has continued.

The way governments award private contracts is always going to merit scrutiny due to the widespread opportunities for corruption. Much of the lobbying industry is built on government contracting. Much 'pork barrel" is tied to government contracting. Many campaign contributions are tied to government contracting. Proven and unproven accusations of favoritism, bid rigging, etc. often accompany government contracting.

On the other hand, much government contracting is related to downsizing the permanent workforce and filling those role as needed. If someone retires from the government, then the government realizes the need that role filled, and hires the retiree back on contract, doing the exact same job, is that a grift?

90%, like 90% as a guess, no real difference in phrasing there, still an unsupported assertion, adding "skin in the game," and "sacred cow" more of the same, with a little STD trolling to boot. Trump has encouraged the use of broad brush flame throwers.

I'm not a government contractor, and I don't work for the federal government, or any government, except at tax time. I think the government is too big, produces a lot of waste (like most organizations, big or small), and government contracting is a fair subject for discussion here. Maybe more actual information, less speculation, and fewer insults would help the conversation.

And don't forget, Mr. Small Government himself, Ross Perot, made his fortune largely off government contracting.

A conversation about government size, government contracting and the role of government is different than the genesis of this conversation.

It started with the notion that Buttigieg should be disqualified since he was a contractor.

My point is that the notions of disqualification seem to be coming against every D candidate that rises in the polls. And the origin of those arguments seem to be coming from trolls and then parroted again by the right wing media and then often times picked back up on the left.

The strategy is to say that Trump is on an equal footing with those candidates. When you see gtn picking up those same talking points - you know they are doing their job very well.

[montestewart]

I was a contractor in the IT field for 18 years at the CIA before retiring in 2014. In IT the mix is about 85% contractor, and 15% government workers. The CIA decided they wanted to be in the spy and intelligence business, and their mission wasn't IT.

What I don't get is how we all missed that all those years that we were grifters. Even though all our projects were following govt direction we were producing little or anything of value. The worldwide networks I supported weren't really necessary, or would operate even if I ignored middle of the night calls. Applications to identify terrorists were little more than scams to fill our wallets.

Of course we weren't grifters. I don't get this whole discussion. I don't criticize anyone here (except PIF occasionally), but the claims made here recently are totally inane, and don't deserve responses, but for the some reason the discussion has continued.

The way governments award private contracts is always going to merit scrutiny due to the widespread opportunities for corruption. Much of the lobbying industry is built on government contracting. Much 'pork barrel" is tied to government contracting. Many campaign contributions are tied to government contracting. Proven and unproven accusations of favoritism, bid rigging, etc. often accompany government contracting.

On the other hand, much government contracting is related to downsizing the permanent workforce and filling those role as needed. If someone retires from the government, then the government realizes the need that role filled, and hires the retiree back on contract, doing the exact same job, is that a grift?

90%, like 90% as a guess, no real difference in phrasing there, still an unsupported assertion, adding "skin in the game," and "sacred cow" more of the same, with a little STD trolling to boot. Trump has encouraged the use of broad brush flame throwers.

I'm not a government contractor, and I don't work for the federal government, or any government, except at tax time. I think the government is too big, produces a lot of waste (like most organizations, big or small), and government contracting is a fair subject for discussion here. Maybe more actual information, less speculation, and fewer insults would help the conversation.

And don't forget, Mr. Small Government himself, Ross Perot, made his fortune largely off government contracting.

A conversation about government size, government contracting and the role of government is different than the genesis of this conversation.

It started with the notion that Buttigieg should be disqualified since he was a contractor.

My point is that the notions of disqualification seem to be coming against every D candidate that rises in the polls. And the origin of those arguments seem to be coming from trolls and then parroted again by the right wing media and then often times picked back up on the left.

The strategy is to say that Trump is on an equal footing with those candidates. When you see gtn picking up those same talking points - you know they are doing their job very well.

Generally agree with this, although some more closely monitored and curated threads can start to veer toward stale echo chambers. I am open to the occasional firebomb (you all know who you are), even if it comes off as trolling, to make sure the confines of discussion are not too narrow. Still, I appreciate the standards used on the General, Trade, and CA boards to keep discussions on point and relatively insult, troll, and broad brush generalization free. Carry on, Wizards fans.