Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[nate33]

I'm really okay if we can just trade Beal for Simmons and two future 1sts. I'd aim for one first in 2023 (to hopefully offset our missing pick to Houston) and one first in 2025 (later is better because the odds increase that Embiid will be hurt and Beal will decline).

If we follow up by trading Kuzma to Chicago for a late 1st and by dumping Harrell somewhere for a 2nd round pick or two, we'd be left with:

PG Holiday/Dinwiddie
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Deni/Bertans
PF Simmons/Hachimura
C Bryant/Gafford

(I inverted Holiday and Dinwiddie because I think the chemistry is much better this way. In reality, Dinwiddie would start but would go to the bench real early so he could play with the 2nd unit.)

That starting unit looks fantastic to me. Simmons is the primary ball handler with elite defensive players and high-IQ ball movers all around him and a stretch big to open up the paint. Holiday and Deni are secondary playmakers. KCP and Bryant are dangerous catch-and-shoot guys. Don't sleep on how effective Holiday can be as a 3&D PG if he doesn't have so much responsibility to run the offense. The second unit centers the offense around the Dinwiddie/Gafford pick and roll with great shooting all around. Gafford compensates for the lack of great wing defense on the 2nd unit. Bertans could be phased out of the rotation if Hachimura's shooting has improved so that we pretty much go with a 3-forward rotation at all times of Simmons, Deni and Hachimura.

Meanwhile, we'd have a stockpile of picks to build around this young lineup. Hopefully, we can stall in bringing Simmons over here so we can tank our way into a lotto pick in 2022.

[gambitx777]

Head-spinning.

But... if I'm untangling it correctly, completely impossible.

You have Philly sending out Simmons, Green, Springer, Bassey, 2 R1 picks, & a R2 pick -- in return for Dinwiddie & Beal. That seems unlikely to me, although you suggest that the appeal of immediately contending for a title would be too tempting to turn down. Maybe, but... I doubt it.

Plus you have Sac'to sending out Haliburton, Mitchell, Bagley, a R1 pick, & 4 R2 picks for Simmons (Neto is an expiring vet minimum player; he has no trade value). Not a chance!

Finally, you have us sending out 5 players & taking in 8. That would put us at 18 players. 15 is the limit.

I personally think Philly would jump on this for several reason. Including DM being able to say they got an all star for Simmons. This is the best deal that would come along by far.

So every one and their mother talks about how amazing Simmons is, how good Simmons is. A couple of young prospects and a 22 year old they gave up on 1 first and a few seconds. Is absolutely a rebuild package a team like sac would give up for Simmons. Someone a lot of people still see as a ture star in the league. I don't but they league and a lot of people in the know do.

with this version of the trade, the one I posted is not impossible. We trade 5 players. You cut green who's last year is non garunteed, cut Satoronsky who's a one year deal, cut Thompson who's a one year deal and cut gill.

In the 3 team version with out NO, you do run into an issue with this but it's not impossible. You trade put 3 and bring in 7 so you cut green and Thompson like before you need two spots. Cut gill and one of holiday, Trez or KCP (who's last year is not fully garunteed).

In both cases you can just cut these players pay them and to leave because you're trading out more money than you're bringing in so eating some dead money on one year or basically one year deals doesn't hurt you.

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[Ruzious]

I'm really okay if we can just trade Beal for Simmons and two future 1sts. I'd aim for one first in 2023 (to hopefully offset our missing pick to Houston) and one first in 2025 (later is better because the odds increase that Embiid will be hurt and Beal will decline).

If we follow up by trading Kuzma to Chicago for a late 1st and by dumping Harrell somewhere for a 2nd round pick or two, we'd be left with:

PG Holiday/Dinwiddie
SG KCP/Kispert
SF Deni/Bertans
PF Simmons/Hachimura
C Bryant/Gafford

(I inverted Holiday and Dinwiddie because I think the chemistry is much better this way. In reality, Dinwiddie would start but would go to the bench real early so he could play with the 2nd unit.)

That starting unit looks fantastic to me. Simmons is the primary ball handler with elite defensive players and high-IQ ball movers all around him and a stretch big to open up the paint. Holiday and Deni are secondary playmakers. KCP and Bryant are dangerous catch-and-shoot guys. Don't sleep on how effective Holiday can be as a 3&D PG. The second unit centers the offense around the Dinwiddie/Gafford pick and roll with great shooting all around. Gafford compensates for the lack of great wing defense on the 2nd unit. Bertans could be phased out of the rotation if Hachimura's shooting has improved so that we pretty much go with a 3-forward rotation at all times of Simmons, Deni and Hachimura.

Meanwhile, we'd have a stockpile of picks to build on this young lineup. Hopefully, we can stall in bringing Simmons over here so we can tank our way into a lotto pick in 2022.

Philly's 2025 FRP goes to OKC with protections, but I'd still make that trade without that pick and add in the rights to Petrusev. Try to add in a right to swap a future FRP.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Can definitely see the Cavs pulling the trigger if they aren’t giving up Garland, Allen, and of course Mobley.

But the Cavs LOVE Okoro.

[NatP4]

So, nat, that's 3 r1 picks plus Tillman & maybe Clarke, plus a R1 pick for Trez, & our own R1 pick -- 6 maybe 7 roster spots.

From the current team, 6 guys would be guaranteed next year: Dinwiddie, Bertans, Kuzma, Kispert, Gafford, & Todd. You want to keep Bryant. Plus you are high on Ayayi, who's killing it in the G League, so make it 8.

Plus, of course, we'll pick up Deni's option -- & you can be sure we'll do the same w/ Rui.

That's 17 if we get both T. & C. from Memphis. But, let's assume only 1 of them comes (let's say Tillman), & make it 16.

But maybe we trade up w/ 3 of those R1 picks to get 1 pick in that "4-10 range." So now it's 14. In which case let's assume we'd pick up KCP's option. We'd have:

PG -- Dinwiddie
SG -- KCP, Ayayi
SF -- Deni, Kispert
PF -- Rui, Tillman, Kuzma, Bertans, Todd
C -- Gafford, Bryant

...plus, let's say, the #6, #16, & #30 picks in the '22 draft (i.e. the trade up, our pick, & the pick we got for Harrell).

Is that -- roughly speaking, of course! -- what you have in mind?

Probably have to take back one of Dylan Brooks/Steven Adams, but then you just decline KCP. Culver&Anderson also come back and expire by the end of the year.

Tankathon has Kendall Brown at #6 and Tari Eason at #16. That would be a completely ridiculous draft with just those two alone. Christian Braun is sitting there at 30, completely underrated. He’s going to be 20 years old on draft night, currently posting a 69% TS, gets steals and blocks, more assists than TOs, 7.7 rebounds per36 as a 2 guard.

There would still be plenty of roster imbalance (about 35 power forwards), but you basically are building around this:

Ayayi
Kispert Braun
Avdija Brown
Eason Tillman
Gafford Bryant

Fill in the gaps with Kuzma, Dinwiddie, Todd, Rui, and Bertans. Continue to actively look for whatever way to flip Todd and/or Rui for other positive assets.

[NatP4]

If we really think we found one in Ayayi (which we should), he would be a really good fit next to Ben Simmons. A backcourt of Ayayi/Kispert would be an awesome fit there. Not a lot of ball handling ability, but ELITE off the ball with great cutting and floor spacing.

Getting TB back would be huge also.

Dinwiddie Ayayi
KCP Kispert
Avdija Bertans
Simmons Rui
Bryant Gafford

Not sure where Kuzma disappeared to, but I don’t care.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

Can definitely see the Cavs pulling the trigger if they aren’t giving up Garland, Allen, and of course Mobley.

But the Cavs LOVE Okoro.

I don't see what the Cavs have that Philly would want, assuming Garland is not included.

It would have to be a 3-way where a 3rd team gives Philly the veteran perimeter scorer they need and Cleveland sends picks to the 3rd team.

I don't really see the logic of Simmons in Cleveland anyhow. Their spacing is already rather dicey with Mobley and Allen together on the floor. Adding another non-shooter doesn't make much sense.

[Dark Faze]

If you can get Sexton and Okoro, that's better than McCollum imo. It's likely to be the best deal on the table.

[gambitx777]

I have zero idea why Cleveland would want Ben Simmons. He doesn't not fit next to mobley, Jarret or markkenen .

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[Dark Faze]

I have zero idea why Cleveland would want Ben Simmons. He doesn't not fit next to mobley, Jarret or markkenen .

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They'd need another sharp shooter at the 2, but I'd argue Simmons, Garland, a Shooter, Mobley, and Allen could easily be an average level offense, paired with an elite defense.

[nate33]

If you can get Sexton and Okoro, that's better than McCollum imo. It's likely to be the best deal on the table.

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

[gambitx777]

If you can get Sexton and Okoro, that's better than McCollum imo. It's likely to be the best deal on the table.

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

Which I'll still hold till the day I day as an awful trade and won't end well for us at all.

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[Dark Faze]

If you can get Sexton and Okoro, that's better than McCollum imo. It's likely to be the best deal on the table.

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

Yea, but Beal would have to ask out before the deadline in order for us to shop him, and it's not going to happen.

[nate33]

If you can get Sexton and Okoro, that's better than McCollum imo. It's likely to be the best deal on the table.

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

Which I'll still hold till the day I day as an awful trade and won't end well for us at all.

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I think it ends better than signing Beal to a supermax and locking us into mediocrity for 4 more years.

If nothing else, Simmons is a much more tradeable asset.

[payitforward]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

[FAH1223]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

I’d definitely want Curry or Maxey if we are trading Brad to Philadelphia.

[verbal8]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

If Philly is pairing Beal and Embid - I don't think things like giving up Curry and the luxury tax should get in the way.

[payitforward]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

If Philly is pairing Beal and Embid - I don't think things like giving up Curry and the luxury tax should get in the way.

?? Please explain what you mean.

[verbal8]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

If Philly is pairing Beal and Embid - I don't think things like giving up Curry and the luxury tax should get in the way.

?? Please explain what you mean.

If the Sixers are dealing Simmons and assets - they are getting(or believe they are) a superstar. I think the reason they Sixers didn't go for a reasonable package around McCollum is they are targeting someone to pair with Embid to chase championships.

While big spending doesn't lead to championships, I can't think of many recent contenders who pinched pennies.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

Which I'll still hold till the day I day as an awful trade and won't end well for us at all.

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I think it ends better than signing Beal to a supermax and locking us into mediocrity for 4 more years.

If nothing else, Simmons is a much more tradeable asset.

here's the thing - mediocrity isn't even assured.

Bradley Beal has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team.

He has a dramatically losing record in seasons where he is the highest VORP on the team. His profile is less "mediocrity with him as your best player" and more "late lottery with him as your best player".

Bradley Beal had 2 seasons of really high volume scoring on good efficiency, but he's not good at anything else. While "guy who can score 30 a game" is a good problem to have to an extent, he's worse than previous Wizards star guards at creating for others and on defense, let alone compared to other NBA 2s.