2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[Samuels1]

I did a deep dive on Fears and he might end up unplayable early on his defense, awareness and effort is beyond pitiful. He does alot of standing around when the ball isn't in his hands.

I honestly would be surprised if Dawkins chose him or Tre Johnson just don't fit the model. You have to atleast give effort on defense. Drafting guys like that is how you end up with empty stat overpaid players that don't make the team better or effect wins.

I personally would only draft guys who wanna compete on both ends. Guys that don't stand around on offensive end and are mentally locked into defense. You don't have to be a good defender but you gotta give effort or your breaking down the entire defensive structure.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

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[tontoz]

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[pcbothwel]

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Again... how the hell do people have Ace over this guy. His floor is a bigger/more athletic Jordan Poole, with a very clear path to being a Booker/Beal caliber guard. You take Booker over MPJ/Rashard Lewis every day and twice on Sunday.
If his athleticism/physicality take another leap... you are looking at Ray Allen.
How the Sixers pass over him is beyond me

[AFM]

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Again... how the hell do people have Ace over this guy. His floor is a bigger/more athletic Jordan Poole, with a very clear path to being a Booker/Beal caliber guard. You take Booker over MPJ/Rashard Lewis every day and twice on Sunday.
If his athleticism/physicality take another leap... you are looking at Ray Allen.
How the Sixers pass over him is beyond me

Agreed. This same guy has a video on his passing, how underrated it is. Johnson also immediately said his playmaking is the most underrated part of his game.

[tontoz]

Again... how the hell do people have Ace over this guy. His floor is a bigger/more athletic Jordan Poole, with a very clear path to being a Booker/Beal caliber guard. You take Booker over MPJ/Rashard Lewis every day and twice on Sunday.
If his athleticism/physicality take another leap... you are looking at Ray Allen.
How the Sixers pass over him is beyond me

Ace is an impact player on D and on the boards. Tre is neither.

Ace can have a foot in the paint as a rim protector, then fly out to block a 3 after a swing pass. Not many guys can do that. He is also a big lob threat which Tre isn't.

Tre is further along in development than Ace for sure and should be better early on. But if Ace improves the way i saw him during the season i think he ends up the better player overall in a few years.

To be clear i would be happy with either guy. If both guys are available at 6 i would choose ace but it wouldnt be a no brainer or anything.

[Rafael122]

So the latest news is that Ace wants to play for a team on the East Coast that's between Atlanta and New York. That's literally us and Brooklyn lol if we're talking top 8. Philly too but he canceled his workout so it can't be them.

[doclinkin]

Again... how the hell do people have Ace over this guy. His floor is a bigger/more athletic Jordan Poole, with a very clear path to being a Booker/Beal caliber guard. You take Booker over MPJ/Rashard Lewis every day and twice on Sunday.
If his athleticism/physicality take another leap... you are looking at Ray Allen.
How the Sixers pass over him is beyond me

Ace is an impact player on D and on the boards. Tre is neither.

Ace can have a foot in the paint as a rim protector, then fly out to block a 3 after a swing pass. Not many guys can do that. He is also a big lob threat which Tre isn't.

Tre is further along in development than Ace for sure and should be better early on. But if Ace improves the way i saw him during the season i think he ends up the better player overall in a few years.

To be clear i would be happy with either guy. If both guys are available at 6 i would choose ace but it wouldnt be a no brainer or anything.

This is where I am. At 6 we have an opportunity to pick between a number of solid players vs potential all stars. It’s a good problem to have.

I fully expect Tre would improve in playmaking and defense on this team. He’s got the length and size to become a reliable defender. His read react software is fast. His frame will take strength without slowing down. Playable at 2 guard mostly. A shotmaker with perimeter chops.

Ace is longer. Quicker. A better boardsman. Shotblocker. An above the rim athlete who can score over defenders. Also has a chance to grow into power as his body fills out. Played 2-4 in college. A multi level scorer with defensive length if not awareness.

I think one or both are gone before our pick so it wouldn’t be a choice. It’d be a selection between one of those guys and Maluach I think.


I think I’d lean Ace over Maluach but it’s close. A first option scorer who plays both ways is too expensive in the market though. Bigs are still undervalued. Still it’s Maluach over Tre for me. You can find shooters in every draft. But smart athletic giants are very very rare.

[TGW]

You take Bailey over Tre because Bailey has elite physical traits that Johnson doesn't have. 6'9, 205 with a 8'11 standing reach and a 7'1 wingspan as a wing. He ran the 3/4 sprint and shuttle time faster than Tre, despite being the bigger, taller player. Bailey also actually tries on defense, unlike Tre Johnson who does literally NOTHING on defense. He is absolutely clueless on that side of the ball.

And Bailey doesn't play anything like MPJ or Rashard Lewis...weird comp. The only thing those players have in common is that they're tall.

As of now, I think the Gizz have them ranked at:

1. Fears (secret G'Town workout)
2. Bailey (based off the pure phuckery his camp is engaging in)
3. Johnson
4. Maluach
5. KK

[NatP4]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

[J-Ves]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

Who is the target in the 2nd scenario?

[NatP4]

You take Bailey over Tre because Bailey has elite physical traits that Johnson doesn't have. 6'9, 205 with a 8'11 standing reach and a 7'1 wingspan as a wing. He ran the 3/4 sprint and shuttle time faster than Tre, despite being the bigger, taller player. Bailey also actually tries on defense, unlike Tre Johnson who does literally NOTHING on defense. He is absolutely clueless on that side of the ball.

Johnson’s defensive film is horrifying. I can’t remember watching a player that is that bad on defense. He literally just stands there and watches.

Combine that with his brutal rebounding numbers for being 6’6 with a 6’10 wingspan, he’s essentially relegated to playing the 2 in the NBA.

Don’t think he’ll be there at 6, but the upside of Johnson vs Bailey really isn’t comparable.

Ace could be a 2-4 with rebounding &shot blocking skills of a PF, and wing athleticism/guard shot making skills.

[willbcocks]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

Who is the target in the 2nd scenario?

This is my guess as well. I suspect Essengue if they trade down.

[NatP4]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

Who is the target in the 2nd scenario?

I guess it could be Maluach/Queen? Essengue wouldn’t surprise me at all. Can’t have any workout smoke about him when he’s still playing in Germany. He’s certainly their type.

I do think there’s a good chance they are smokescreening to move down and pick Essengue.

[TGW]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

I don't think so, bruh. A lot of talking heads are saying Fears is high on their board. Plus the workout thing. Personally, he's not who I would pick but I think they like his age and his ability to get into the lane, something they severely lack from the guard position. Again, not my pick, but I do believe they have him ranked highly.

edit: I would not be mad if the Essengue thing was true.

[nate33]

I don’t think the Fears stuff is anything but smoke

My guess is:

1. Bailey
2. Trade down with NOP or BKN.
3. Trade up with Philly for Edgecombe

I agree. Fears just doesn't make sense for them. The whole point of acquiring Sarr is to be able to play a switch-everything defense. You don't undermine that concept by starting a non-switchable PG. Indeed, I think one of the reasons they pursued Bub in the first place is because they knew they would get Sarr and they wanted to acquire the other hard-to-find component of a switch-everything scheme: a big long point guard who can defend.

With that in mind, I'd say your ranking is exactly right. And if they trade down, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the grabbed Essengue.

[AFM]

The only guy I really don’t want at 6 is Kon.
And I hope we don’t trade Bilal.

Anything else I’m more or less okay with.

[nate33]

The only guy I really don’t want at 6 is Kon.
And I hope we don’t trade Bilal.

Anything else I’m more or less okay with.

I'm starting to sour a bit on Tre Johnson. If NatP4 is right in that his defense is hopeless, how exactly is he any better than Jordan Poole? If we do draft him, I hope it's because our scouts are confident that his defensive issues can be coached away.

[Dat2U]

I don't get the angst about Tre Johnson's defense and I certainly would not make that a reason not to draft him.

For a Queen, a guy that might have to play C, the questions revolve around the ability to defend and the motor. And its a huge question because the C has an outsized impact on the game defensively - good and bad.

On the other hand, most elite guards are not good defenders. SGA is an exception to the rule but not the standard.

Most teams are happy if their shot creating guards are neutral defenders. Of course, the less role you have on offense, the better your defense needs to be to find a role.

For wings/guards, defense is about effort & whatever system the team is running. Jalen Williams was a non-descript defender in the WCC and questions were raised about how he would hold up defensively - now he's one of the best wing defenders in the league.

So as long as a guard/wing has the ability to defend and is not someone the defense constantly targets due to size/strength mismatches, I would not be concerned about what they did defensively in college.

Defense is the easiest skill to add as a non-C if you have the physical ability to man the position.

[Dat2U]

The only guy I really don’t want at 6 is Kon.
And I hope we don’t trade Bilal.

Anything else I’m more or less okay with.

I'm starting to sour a bit on Tre Johnson. If NatP4 is right in that his defense is hopeless, how exactly is he any better than Jordan Poole? If we do draft him, I hope it's because our scouts are confident that his defensive issues can be coached away.

Tre is LOCKED at 4 on my board. I'm not overanalyzing the defensive effort of a usage heavy guard with 6-10 1/2 wingspan tasked with a massive offensive role. Its the easiest thing to address if the physical tools are there - far easier than poor shooting which we seem more forgiving of for some reason.

Tre is arguably one of the best & most versatile shooters to come into the league in a few years. With his size and ball-skill, it literally screams high-level NBA player with a sky high floor. I would trade up for Tre. I like him that much!