The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[willbcocks]

I can't stop myself, I think I have watched each of the above videos 10 times.

[Zonkerbl]

wait... he... did a spin move at the foul line... jumped from the bottom of the circle from a dead stop... and... what? mind can't comprehend...

and then he throws ball downwards at hoop from three feet away... oh, my brain hurts...

[sashae]

Unreal... the Mozgov dunk looks fake -- how does he keep going up like that?

[MJG]

Unreal... the Mozgov dunk looks fake -- how does he keep going up like that?

Ha seriously, it almost looks like CGI work.

[closg00]

Griffin used Moz as a ladder on his way up for the slam, stabilizing himself with his left hand. Amazing!

[hands11]

So no comments about the recent article about McGee and his three game run of rebounding ?

I would have though that would have conjured up some comments. Instead all I see in here are comments about Blake.

[DallasShalDune]

I love how Griffin looks like he is pulling Moz's head into his crotch, a kind of "suck my ballz" statement. So inappropriate, but so hilarious.

As for McGee, I'm starting to support Flip's coaching style with him if he keeps showing results.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

So no comments about the recent article about McGee and his three game run of rebounding ?

I would have though that would have conjured up some comments. Instead all I see in here are comments about Blake.

My comment is that each time Flip pulled McGee after a mistake of not boxing out, the other team went on huge runs to win the game. He taught McGee a lesson, but I think at the cost of one if not both games.

Reading the article, McGee said he was tired on one of the plays. I recall that right before that, McGee had done everything in the world to be tired. He had scored on multiple dunks to rally the Wizards. He had blocked shots. In one game he had not only received a lob for a dunk but he returned the favor and assisted the guard for a score. Following the online play-by-play, almost every Wizards line featured something McGee did positively. However, when he got fouled and missed two free throws and then at the other end of the court missed a block out, Javale was pulled from the game. I recall McGee had been pretty much the sole reason the Wizards went ahead 78-76. He got pulled at 78 all. After Flip's lesson, the Hornets went on to score 15 points the rest of way, many on layups with McGee on the bench. Hands, here's a quote from the article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... eheadlines

Saunders has asked him to provide "more substance over style" at the center position. He benched McGee for failing to box out Anderson Varejao on a free throw late in a loss to Cleveland, for letting Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson get uncontested layups in a loss to Charlotte, and for a series of missed assignments in Chicago, where McGee sat for the entire fourth quarter.

"It was really tough. I was on the bench, looking at shots, looking at layups, like I could've been there to contest those layups," said McGee, who is averaging career highs of 7.8 points, 7.1 rebounds and is second in the NBA in blocked shots at 2.9 per game. "They might not have been made baskets, if I was in there right now. I just got tired. I don't want nobody to tell me I'm not rebounding."

Honestly, hands, I think Flip's point lost BOTH games. I say at the very least the Wizards win one of those two games if McGee stays on the floor. So, my thoughts are Flip's tough love is something I will bring up later in the season if the Wizards miss the playoffs by a game. McGee's play merits at least 30 minutes a night. I don't like Flip's methods of punishment and public humilation, either. McGee played (per this article--didn't recall this myself) a season-low 16 minutes in the loss to Charlotte, in which the Wizards had a season-low 30 rebounds. Flip doesn't say jack about the times Yi Jianlian only grabs 1 rebound.

The one thing I cannot argue is Saunders is getting McGee to do exactly what he wants him to do, which is to forsake all offense and to go for rebounds. Here's what Flip had to say after the great game McGee played in the win over Memphis:

I said, JaVale, you had two plays of the game - one when you went crazy and made a mistake and then forgot about quickly and made an unbelievable block," Coach Flip Saunders said after the Wizards grinded out an 89-86 win against the Grizzlies.

Also from the article:

We've been on his [rear] to rebound the basketball and he's made a conscious effort to rebound and be a presence," Saunders said as the Wizards prepare to face the Detroit Pistons at the Palace of Auburn Hills, Mich., on Sunday. "He made a couple of bonehead plays trying to do too much offensively, but he has to learn, you can't do those things. He's young. He's learning. The main thing, he's just got to play hard.

I am totally conflicted, of two minds, on Saunders' treatment of McGee. It seems to be working yet I hate it. I think the coach is a hater of the worst kind. Words like bonehead and crazy and phrases like "we've been on his ass" seem extreme and not good. Telling a guy he can't make mistakes and that he's crazy for shooting--when that BIG is only taking a little over 8 shots per 36 minutes, seems unjust. Saying McGee made mistakeS (plural) trying to do too much offensively; when the stat sheet suggests otherwise (1 turnover but 10 ponts, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 steals AND 2 assists) seems unfair.

What I hope is that Flip whips Javale into a great rebounder and a competent defender and that Javale develops thick skin. He's helping the team and getting much better. I know Flip isn't going to change, but I hope Javale doesn't hate playing for this coach forever--that is--that this coach gets replaced by a better one ... and that by that time Javale has spent hours and hours in the offseason refining post moves, improving his FT shooting, and learning to gather himself, slow down, and convert baskets on offense that he's currently rushing ever-so slightly.

What I think is Flip is dead wrong about Javale's offensive potential. Flip NEEDS McGee for defense and rebounding and I think his offense is designed to reward jumpshooters only. I think McGee's game can be way better for a coach who will utilize McGee's ability to finish around the rim much better than Flip utilizes it.

hands, I am glad McGee is rising to the challenges that Flip presents. He's rebounding and doing what the coach has asked. I just don't like Flip's ways, but I have to admit he's getting the results from McGee. I just think McGee needs to play 30 plus a night, or Flip will lose more games like CHA and CLE that might be wins with McGee on the floor.

[sashae]

CCJ, whether or not Flip lost that game (and I'm not conceding the point either way), with the team the way it is this year, isn't JaVale's learning process more important than the W? I'd rather see JaVale become truly productive and complete at the expense of losing a game or two more than we would in a fairly lost season anyway...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

sashae, you're right that avale's learning is really important.

However, if this team ends up with 36-38 wins and they don't make the playoffs, I'm thinking Flip needs to go. What about learning for Wall and the rest that would come in a playoff environment? How about learning from winning with a coach that has faith in you?

I would have preferred that after Flip sat Javale down and chewed him out that the coach got him back in the game, and with encouragement! "You f'd up" could have been followed up after McGee had been on the bench no more than 1 minute in either game with Flip saying "get back out there and let's win this game on the boards, with defense, and with all the energy you bring!"

I think, sashae, the bottom line is get the W. Cuss each other out. Whatever. But get it done together for the good of the whole team. Don't make an example of a dude and lose a game this early in the season.

This season isn't fairly lost! The Wizards are literally 0.5 games out of the eighth spot. They're no worse than a whole lot of teams. They're no less experienced when you consider that Arenas, Hinrich, Blatche all have more than 5 years NBA experience. This is Thornton's and Young's fourth season. Same for Yi. It's Javale's third season.

This team has a lot more talent and experience than it's coach would have you believe IMO. They lack interior defense. They area jump shooting team. Blatche and McGee are finess bigs. HOWEVER< the Wizards have three guys who are terrific three point shooters in Arenas, Hinrich, and Young. Wall is the most physically gifted PG in the league. Yi can get hot offensively and he can block shots. The Wizards have three near seven footers. Booker is a physical talent. So is Seraphin.

I think if Monty Williams was coaching the Wizards they would be 6-5. Same man has the Hornets at 10-1. Flip makes examples of McGee on every mistake and he benches Young without giving it a thought. At the same time he'll tolerate mistakes from Wall, Hinrich, Arenas without saying a thing.

sashae, I want Javale better and Flip is getting that done. I ALSO want Flip to be a bit more flexible and for him to get the win by any means necessary.

[closg00]

When can we extend McGee? Dude his well on his way to getting paid.

[willbcocks]

I am totally conflicted, of two minds, on Saunders' treatment of McGee. It seems to be working yet I hate it. I think the coach is a hater of the worst kind. Words like bonehead and crazy and phrases like "we've been on his ass" seem extreme and not good. Telling a guy he can't make mistakes and that he's crazy for shooting--when that BIG is only taking a little over 8 shots per 36 minutes, seems unjust. Saying McGee made mistakeS (plural) trying to do too much offensively; when the stat sheet suggests otherwise (1 turnover but 10 ponts, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 steals AND 2 assists) seems unfair.

This is one of those times when watching the game, in addition to reading the box score, would be very useful. Flip is talking about one underhand, sideways flipped hook shot from his waist that one poster on this board said would not even work in a church league, and the play in the video above in this thread where tried to drive into a crowded lane only to get stripped. Mcgee has not looked good when he has tried to create, but he has looked great running the floor on fast breaks, concentrating on putback dunks, and getting the occassionally ally-oop.

[Zonkerbl]

You know what I really want to know about McGee: Can he dunk with two hands from the foul line?

[Wizardspride]

So no comments about the recent article about McGee and his three game run of rebounding ?

I would have though that would have conjured up some comments. Instead all I see in here are comments about Blake.

Personally, I don't care about Blake Griffith at all.

He doesn't play for the Wizards.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am totally conflicted, of two minds, on Saunders' treatment of McGee. It seems to be working yet I hate it. I think the coach is a hater of the worst kind. Words like bonehead and crazy and phrases like "we've been on his ass" seem extreme and not good. Telling a guy he can't make mistakes and that he's crazy for shooting--when that BIG is only taking a little over 8 shots per 36 minutes, seems unjust. Saying McGee made mistakeS (plural) trying to do too much offensively; when the stat sheet suggests otherwise (1 turnover but 10 ponts, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 steals AND 2 assists) seems unfair.

This is one of those times when watching the game, in addition to reading the box score, would be very useful. Flip is talking about one underhand, sideways flipped hook shot from his waist that one poster on this board said would not even work in a church league, and the play in the video above in this thread where tried to drive into a crowded lane only to get stripped. Mcgee has not looked good when he has tried to create, but he has looked great running the floor on fast breaks, concentrating on putback dunks, and getting the occassionally ally-oop.

Yeah, so true, willb. I didn't pony up for League Pass. Thought I'd be more upset than happy with the games I watched... But you're right to say watching the game makes a difference.

Went crazy does put that one statement in proper perspective.

I like that Flip is playing McGee now. Javale played 42 minutes tonight at Detroit! I'm really thinking Flip and Javale both have seen the light.

I also wish I did have League Pass. Might get it in a few weeks.

[dandridge 10]

McGee's minutes are increasing because he is playing better/more controlled and his conditioning/asthma is better. Its that simple.

[closg00]

McGee's minutes are increasing because he is playing better/more controlled and his conditioning/asthma is better. Its that simple.

Yi is out & Seraphin & Hamady are both unplayable which forced Flip to play McGee more, that had something to do with it as-well.

[willbcocks]

I am totally conflicted, of two minds, on Saunders' treatment of McGee. It seems to be working yet I hate it. I think the coach is a hater of the worst kind. Words like bonehead and crazy and phrases like "we've been on his ass" seem extreme and not good. Telling a guy he can't make mistakes and that he's crazy for shooting--when that BIG is only taking a little over 8 shots per 36 minutes, seems unjust. Saying McGee made mistakeS (plural) trying to do too much offensively; when the stat sheet suggests otherwise (1 turnover but 10 ponts, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 steals AND 2 assists) seems unfair.

This is one of those times when watching the game, in addition to reading the box score, would be very useful. Flip is talking about one underhand, sideways flipped hook shot from his waist that one poster on this board said would not even work in a church league, and the play in the video above in this thread where tried to drive into a crowded lane only to get stripped. Mcgee has not looked good when he has tried to create, but he has looked great running the floor on fast breaks, concentrating on putback dunks, and getting the occassionally ally-oop.

Yeah, so true, willb. I didn't pony up for League Pass. Thought I'd be more upset than happy with the games I watched... But you're right to say watching the game makes a difference.

Went crazy does put that one statement in proper perspective.

I like that Flip is playing McGee now. Javale played 42 minutes tonight at Detroit! I'm really thinking Flip and Javale both have seen the light.

I also wish I did have League Pass. Might get it in a few weeks.

It is a great product, they improved on it dramatically. You like tracking the game with stats, and they make that easy with a good, albeit slightly flawed event tracker. There's also a handy play by play in the game window.

[hands11]

CCJ, whether or not Flip lost that game (and I'm not conceding the point either way), with the team the way it is this year, isn't JaVale's learning process more important than the W? I'd rather see JaVale become truly productive and complete at the expense of losing a game or two more than we would in a fairly lost season anyway...

Plus 1, except for the lost season.

What I was thinking when I read CCJ post was, if we are that close to the playoffs, it is going to be because of what Flip is teaching McGee. A tough lesson if it got us a loss, but I think what McGee was saying is... that is what bothered him so much. It was losing and feeling like he could have helped them win and knowing why he wasnt in the game to do it.

You have to crack a few eggs. If Flip didn't need to do it that way and McGee just listened from practice, etc, than it wouldn't have come to that.

But now look at McGee. I would gladly take this McGee for a season over the old one if you told me the cost was two early season games. I think the net will be way more wins than that. Specially now that I would say his professional career seems to have finally started. If what Im seeing is actually true, Flip has done an effective job not letting this kids talent go to waste.

I dont think any one would trade the McGee of the last 4 games.

[fishercob]

Before the season, I posted about something I noticed about Chandler and Camby -- McGee's two best "aspirational comparisons." Both guys had significant spikes in their rebounding rates and PER's in their third (and then fourth) seasons. It gave me some hope for Javale that I hadn't previously had.

Sure enough, though the sample size is still small, Javale is comparing well to those guys based on their third year in the league.

Here's a comparison of their third seasons. Javale has obviously played in just 16 games. Interestingly Chandler only played in 35 games in his third season. Camby jus 46 (was that the lockout?): http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=54odQ

Javale's total rebound percentage is better than Camby's was, but below Chandler's because Chanlder crushes the other two on the defensive glass, but was weakest on the offensive boards (Javale's best on the offensive boards, 2nd of the three on defensive glass.

Javale has the best PER and block percentage, yet the highest turnover rate.

When you compare the three guys cumulatively through their third seasons, Javale shows even better.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=xXnH5

He's played the fewest minutes (half of Camby's), but again, part of that is that we're just 16 games in. He still ranks best in Oreb%, block rate, ORtg, WS/48, and surprisingly lowest turnover rate.

Bottom line seems to be that Javale is progressing nicely and comparing well to some very good players at similar stages of NBA experience (Chandler obviously was right out of HS while Camby was a college star). I won't get my hopes up, but it would be nice if this would quiet some of the bitching about the Wiz "player development." Maybe, just maybe, the coaches know what they're doing.