Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[payitforward]

All of the Otto Porter for Ersan Ilyasova stuff is crazy. Most scenarios have us wildly overpaying for Ersan> Thus far this season, he is averaging 23.1 minutes and 8.1ppg with a PER of 12.58. In only 2/6 years has he scored more than 10.4ppg (13.0, 13.2). I actually think Ariza and filler would be fair. We upgrade our frontcourt depth, and the Bucks strengthen their tank, which should be their only priority.

I wish there was a way to get Ryan Anderson, but we don't have the bullets.

Ilyasova is having an off season so far, but even if he were playing at his usual much higher level, I wouldn't trade Porter for him at this point. And I've wanted to trade for Ersan, btw. I think he is a bargain at his salary.

But, we need to get younger not older, and I'm not ready to dispense w/ a guy we just took #3 in the draft. As you say, it's "crazy."

Now as to Anderson -- you're right we don't have the bullets. It'd take a wizard to acquire him!

[pancakes3]

If we do get Ersan, he'll replace Nene - effectively making us younger. Not young enough?

[pcbothwel]

Posted this on the Detroit Board and wanted some feedback from everyone. I feel like there is something to this framework:

Wiz fan here. Not even close on Martell. He is the perfect backup wing for the Wiz and a team leader.
With that said, I think your team identity is quickly defensive minded with steals, transition points, and forcing trunovers. Getting a player with these traits while also spreading the floor seems like a Trevor Ariza to a "T". I am trying to draw together a 3 way to get you Ariza while sending out CV plus incentive.

Something like:

WAS In: A. Johnson (2/6.5M), S. Novak (3/3.7M)
WAS Out: Ariza (1/7.7), T. Booker (1/2.4M)

Det In: Ariza (1/7.7), T. Booker (1/2.4M)
Det Out: CV (1/8.6M), KCP (4/2.7M)

Tor In: CV (1/8.6M), KCP (4/2.7M)
Tor Out: A. Johnson (2/6.5M), S. Novak (3/3.7M)

Washington takes on salary for front court depth and 3pt shooter
Detroit becomes even longer and more athletic while getting a lunch pale PF (Booker) and 3 & D SF (ariza)
Toronto cuts salary and helps the tank while getting a top ten pick from this past draft to build with.

Thoughts on this framework?

[nate33]

I don't think Detroit would be all that motivated to trade their lotto pick for a 1-year rental of Ariza. I also think Toronto needs Johnson as the backup 4/5 more than they need another wing like KCP.

It's awesome for us though.

[Dat2U]

Ersan's value is probably as low as it can get right now. It would be a good time to see if Milwaukee is willing to shed some salary.

[jivelikenice]

You want to tie up some of our cap space now too?? Say it ain't so Dat!!!! I will fight the good fight on my own...LOL

[verbal8]

What about Ariza for Stuckey or Will Bynum and Jerebko?

Posted this on the Detroit Board and wanted some feedback from everyone. I feel like there is something to this framework:

Wiz fan here. Not even close on Martell. He is the perfect backup wing for the Wiz and a team leader.
With that said, I think your team identity is quickly defensive minded with steals, transition points, and forcing trunovers. Getting a player with these traits while also spreading the floor seems like a Trevor Ariza to a "T". I am trying to draw together a 3 way to get you Ariza while sending out CV plus incentive.

Something like:

WAS In: A. Johnson (2/6.5M), S. Novak (3/3.7M)
WAS Out: Ariza (1/7.7), T. Booker (1/2.4M)

Det In: Ariza (1/7.7), T. Booker (1/2.4M)
Det Out: CV (1/8.6M), KCP (4/2.7M)

Tor In: CV (1/8.6M), KCP (4/2.7M)
Tor Out: A. Johnson (2/6.5M), S. Novak (3/3.7M)

Washington takes on salary for front court depth and 3pt shooter
Detroit becomes even longer and more athletic while getting a lunch pale PF (Booker) and 3 & D SF (ariza)
Toronto cuts salary and helps the tank while getting a top ten pick from this past draft to build with.

Thoughts on this framework?

[Dat2U]

You want to tie up some of our cap space now too?? Say it ain't so Dat!!!! I will fight the good fight on my own...LOL

LOL not really because I'd be trying my darnedest to deal Nene for expirings at the same time as well. But IIyasova is a good player on a decent contract. He's also the type guy that would really benefit from playing with Wall.

[nuposse04]

Ersan's value is probably as low as it can get right now. It would be a good time to see if Milwaukee is willing to shed some salary.

The problem is that they don't "need" Ariza. I would look to bring a 3rd team in that is fairly crappy at SF. Maybe Memphis or SAC. MIL might be run more incompetently then us, so who knows maybe they'd actually want Ariza.

[verbal8]

Ersan's value is probably as low as it can get right now. It would be a good time to see if Milwaukee is willing to shed some salary.

The problem is that they don't "need" Ariza. I would look to bring a 3rd team in that is fairly crappy at SF. Maybe Memphis or SAC. MIL might be run more incompetently then us, so who knows maybe they'd actually want Ariza.

Milwaukee looks like they are(or should be) in full-on tank mode.

I wonder if taking on Villanueva and incentive from the Pistons would make sense(with the Pistons being the destination for Ariza). Flipping CV into a decent SF means rather than Drummond/Monroe/Josh Smith being a mismatched starting front-court it is a very strong C/PF rotation with Josh Smith occasional(rather than about 50/50) playing SF.

This deal might cost the Wizards a seed or two in the East this season, but I think that is worth it for the long-term benefit.

[LyricalRico]

Ersan's value is probably as low as it can get right now. It would be a good time to see if Milwaukee is willing to shed some salary.

The problem is that they don't "need" Ariza. I would look to bring a 3rd team in that is fairly crappy at SF. Maybe Memphis or SAC. MIL might be run more incompetently then us, so who knows maybe they'd actually want Ariza.

Milwaukee looks like they are(or should be) in full-on tank mode.

Agreed. Some of our expirings and a pick might be good enough to get Ersan, although we already owe a pick to PHX (which I don't regret). Would a team actually trying to compete this year give us player+pick for Ariza? And then we might have a pick to flip to MIL along with expiring dreck so they can still tank.

[GeeWiz]

The problem is that they don't "need" Ariza. I would look to bring a 3rd team in that is fairly crappy at SF. Maybe Memphis or SAC. MIL might be run more incompetently then us, so who knows maybe they'd actually want Ariza.

Milwaukee looks like they are(or should be) in full-on tank mode.

Agreed. Some of our expirings and a pick might be good enough to get Ersan, although we already owe a pick to PHX (which I don't regret). Would a team actually trying to compete this year give us player+pick for Ariza? And then we might have a pick to flip to MIL along with expiring dreck so they can still tank.

I still say we go after Henson rather than Ilyasova. He could be that bench big, who could eventually take over for Nene


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[payitforward]

The problem is that they don't "need" Ariza. I would look to bring a 3rd team in that is fairly crappy at SF. Maybe Memphis or SAC. MIL might be run more incompetently then us, so who knows maybe they'd actually want Ariza.

Milwaukee looks like they are(or should be) in full-on tank mode.

Agreed. Some of our expirings and a pick might be good enough to get Ersan, although we already owe a pick to PHX (which I don't regret). Would a team actually trying to compete this year give us player+pick for Ariza? And then we might have a pick to flip to MIL along with expiring dreck so they can still tank.

Expirings yes, picks no -- we need all our picks; we've already given one away.

I didn't like the trade for Ariza, but I like Ariza -- why is everyone in such a hurry to trade him I wonder? Still, if it were the right player and the right pick I might trade him and keep the pick!.

Trade expirings and the player we got for Ilyasova maybe? Or Henson (nah... they're holding on to him). Or Sanders (talk about someone whose trade value is down!).

[nuposse04]

Milwaukee looks like they are(or should be) in full-on tank mode.

Agreed. Some of our expirings and a pick might be good enough to get Ersan, although we already owe a pick to PHX (which I don't regret). Would a team actually trying to compete this year give us player+pick for Ariza? And then we might have a pick to flip to MIL along with expiring dreck so they can still tank.

Expirings yes, picks no -- we need all our picks; we've already given one away.

I didn't like the trade for Ariza, but I like Ariza -- why is everyone in such a hurry to trade him I wonder? Still, if it were the right player and the right pick I might trade him and keep the pick!.

Trade expirings and the player we got for Ilyasova maybe? Or Henson (nah... they're holding on to him). Or Sanders (talk about someone whose trade value is down!).

Current Ariza should demand 8 mil+ on an open market...I simply don't think we can pay him that (especially if Porter proves to be worth a damn).

I'm pretty sure Henson is close to untouchable for the Bucks. Ed Davis was slumping for the Grizz but a couple good games later he's lookin like how he was in Tor.

[jivelikenice]

Can we do a S&T w/ Ariza in the offseason? Would the CBA mechanics allow us re-sign Gortat and then use Ariza in a S&T to exceed the cap?

[LyricalRico]

I didn't like the trade for Ariza, but I like Ariza -- why is everyone in such a hurry to trade him I wonder? Still, if it were the right player and the right pick I might trade him and keep the pick!.

Yeah, I've come around to being more inclined to keep Ariza because of his role in what has become a very effective starting lineup. I think most folks are just kicking around ideas for the sake of discussion. In fact, here's a thought:

Ilyasova has 2 guaranteed years after this at $7.9M per, and a third year at $8.4M that is only guaranteed for $400k (according to ShamSports.com). If we gave Ariza the exact same contract next summer, and he continued his current level of play - which player would folks rather have? Which would have more value?

I don't think it's unreasonable for some folks to prefer Ariza.

[Dat2U]

I didn't like the trade for Ariza, but I like Ariza -- why is everyone in such a hurry to trade him I wonder? Still, if it were the right player and the right pick I might trade him and keep the pick!.

Yeah, I've come around to being more inclined to keep Ariza because of his role in what has become a very effective starting lineup. I think most folks are just kicking around ideas for the sake of discussion. In fact, here's a thought:

Ilyasova has 2 guaranteed years after this at $7.9M per, and a third year at $8.4M that is only guaranteed for $400k (according to ShamSports.com). If we gave Ariza the exact same contract next summer, and he continued his current level of play - which player would folks rather have? Which would have more value?

I don't think it's unreasonable for some folks to prefer Ariza.

IIyasova would have more value to us because he actually fills a need. I seem to be in the minority, but I still think Webster signed long term, Porter as a recent 3rd pick and trying to re-sign Ariza on top of that is a poor allocation of resources, especially considering the GAPING holes at backup PG, PF & C.

[payitforward]

I didn't like the trade for Ariza, but I like Ariza -- why is everyone in such a hurry to trade him I wonder? Still, if it were the right player and the right pick I might trade him and keep the pick!.

Yeah, I've come around to being more inclined to keep Ariza because of his role in what has become a very effective starting lineup. I think most folks are just kicking around ideas for the sake of discussion. In fact, here's a thought:

Ilyasova has 2 guaranteed years after this at $7.9M per, and a third year at $8.4M that is only guaranteed for $400k (according to ShamSports.com). If we gave Ariza the exact same contract next summer, and he continued his current level of play - which player would folks rather have? Which would have more value?

I don't think it's unreasonable for some folks to prefer Ariza.

IIyasova would have more value to us because he actually fills a need. I seem to be in the minority, but I still think Webster signed long term, Porter as a recent 3rd pick and trying to re-sign Ariza on top of that is a poor allocation of resources, especially considering the GAPING holes at backup PG, PF & C.

I can't agree; if Ariza weren't doing what he's doing we'd need someone else to do it! In fact, this is the real problem w/ trades -- you usually have to give up about as much production as you get in a trade. There are exceptions of course, but usually that's the way it is.

And that's why maximizing draft assets and cap flexibility (to bring in FAs) is so absolutely critical!

[TGW]

I think this is a great opportunity to dump Nene (and Maynor) on Brooklyn. KG looks like he's done, and Teletovic stinks. Pierce has been out and they need some production from their forwards. I would love to find away to clear Nene's contract from the books and be able to keep Gortat and have max caproom.

Next year's lineup:

Wall/pg
Beal/Webster
Porter/Webster
FA/Booker/
Gortat/c

[GeeWiz]

I think this is a great opportunity to dump Nene (and Maynor) on Brooklyn. KG looks like he's done, and Teletovic stinks. Pierce has been out and they need some production from their forwards. I would love to find away to clear Nene's contract from the books and be able to keep Gortat and have max caproom.

Next year's lineup:

Wall/pg
Beal/Webster
Porter/Webster
FA/Booker/
Gortat/c

Monroe and Gortat frontcourt.... That'd be niiiice


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