Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[bondom34]

19 of those 45 wins were with Kevin Durant in the lineup last year. If he's out the whole year I doubt they get to 40 wins.

And they missed Ibaka, Adams, Roberson, and Collison a month. Add them in and they win a bunch more. It wasn't just KD, it wasRuss and the bench playing.

Edit: Here is game by game roster status, it was nuts:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2015_roster_status.html

Are you giving injury excuses for Westbrook play?

No, he played better. Injuries made them miss playoffs.

WAS is 34-35 with Wall. OKC was 22-18 with WB and no KD.

[deneem4]

And they missed Ibaka, Adams, Roberson, and Collison a month. Add them in and they win a bunch more. It wasn't just KD, it wasRuss and the bench playing.

Edit: Here is game by game roster status, it was nuts:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2015_roster_status.html

Are you giving injury excuses for Westbrook play?

No, he played better. Injuries made them miss playoffs.

WAS is 34-35 with Wall. OKC was 22-18 with WB and no KD.

By statistics he didn't play better...They also picked up Kanter and waiters to lessen the injury impact

[bondom34]

Are you giving injury excuses for Westbrook play?

No, he played better. Injuries made them miss playoffs.

WAS is 34-35 with Wall. OKC was 22-18 with WB and no KD.

By statistics he didn't play better...They also picked up Kanter and waiters to lessen the injury impact

By statistics he did, and by a very large margin.

And Waiters and Kanter are both not good. Beal and Gortat are much better. If you think he was worse statistically again you can try to argue that with someone else, because then you just exposed a big hole in your argument.

[deneem4]

No, he played better. Injuries made them miss playoffs.

WAS is 34-35 with Wall. OKC was 22-18 with WB and no KD.

By statistics he didn't play better...They also picked up Kanter and waiters to lessen the injury impact

By statistics he did, and by a very large margin.

And Waiters and Kanter are both not good. Beal and Gortat are much better. If you think he was worse statistically again you can try to argue that with someone else, because then you just exposed a big hole in your argument.

He got to the line more but he shot worse in 3s and 2s...he also had a higher turnover rate

[bondom34]

By statistics he didn't play better...They also picked up Kanter and waiters to lessen the injury impact

By statistics he did, and by a very large margin.

And Waiters and Kanter are both not good. Beal and Gortat are much better. If you think he was worse statistically again you can try to argue that with someone else, because then you just exposed a big hole in your argument.

He got to the line more but he shot worse in 3s and 2s...he also had a higher turnover rate

More points, rebounds, a better W percentage for his team better on/off and plus/minus, BPM, WS, TS and PER, and on and on.

I like Wall, last yr he was top 5 for me, but not this year.

I only wanted to correct a minor error, but seeing you think he's as good as CP, WB, and Curry I see there's no debate here. Because that's just not right.

[deneem4]

By statistics he did, and by a very large margin.

And Waiters and Kanter are both not good. Beal and Gortat are much better. If you think he was worse statistically again you can try to argue that with someone else, because then you just exposed a big hole in your argument.

He got to the line more but he shot worse in 3s and 2s...he also had a higher turnover rate

More points, rebounds, a better W percentage for his team better on/off and plus/minus, BPM, WS, TS and PER, and on and on.

I like Wall, last yr he was top 5 for me, but not this year.

I only wanted to correct a minor error, but seeing you think he's as good as CP, WB, and Curry I see there's no debate here. Because that's just not right.

Despite all those numbers Westbrook wasn't efficient... period...

[bondom34]

He got to the line more but he shot worse in 3s and 2s...he also had a higher turnover rate

More points, rebounds, a better W percentage for his team better on/off and plus/minus, BPM, WS, TS and PER, and on and on.

I like Wall, last yr he was top 5 for me, but not this year.

I only wanted to correct a minor error, but seeing you think he's as good as CP, WB, and Curry I see there's no debate here. Because that's just not right.

Despite all those numbers Westbrook wasn't efficient... period...

He was more efficient than Wall...that's exactly what TS percentage is. I mean, you're clearly showing a lack of understanding of this.

[deneem4]

More points, rebounds, a better W percentage for his team better on/off and plus/minus, BPM, WS, TS and PER, and on and on.

I like Wall, last yr he was top 5 for me, but not this year.

I only wanted to correct a minor error, but seeing you think he's as good as CP, WB, and Curry I see there's no debate here. Because that's just not right.

Despite all those numbers Westbrook wasn't efficient... period...

He was more efficient than Wall...

Only because fta

[bondom34]

Despite all those numbers Westbrook wasn't efficient... period...

He was more efficient than Wall...

Only because fta

They still count. And he was .2 percent worse from the field. This isn't really a gap. And the rest of the numbers are just loads in favor the other way. I'm done here because you're arguing him against CP and Curry too, and I see the lack of statistical understanding. If you think he's near the top 3, I can't help. I read the Wiz board b/c most of you guys are frankly awesome. But phew this debate.

[deneem4]

He was more efficient than Wall...

Only because fta

They still count. And he was .2 percent worse from the field. This isn't really a gap. And the rest of the numbers are just loads in favor the other way. I'm done here because you're arguing him against CP and Curry too, and I see the lack of statistical understanding. If you think he's near the top 3, I can't help. I read the Wiz board b/c most of you guys are frankly awesome. But phew this debate.

I never argued against curry sometimes cp3...but not in this debate...I don't even argue against Lillard...or Westbrook....but this board especially this specific topic seems to think there are 7-8 other point guards better than wall..simply because of wall shooting and turnovers...
So I used Westbrook last year as an example...

Of course wall isn't better than Westbrook...yet...but then again Westbrook plays with real top tier nba talent...not efficient role players...
Not mention we've been hit with a lot of impact injuries...and even then guys are downplaying the effect of players like beal...

[bondom34]

Only because fta

They still count. And he was .2 percent worse from the field. This isn't really a gap. And the rest of the numbers are just loads in favor the other way. I'm done here because you're arguing him against CP and Curry too, and I see the lack of statistical understanding. If you think he's near the top 3, I can't help. I read the Wiz board b/c most of you guys are frankly awesome. But phew this debate.

I never argued against curry sometimes cp3...but not in this debate...I don't even argue against Lillard...or Westbrook....but this board especially this specific topic seems to think there are 7-8 other point guards better than wall..simply because of wall shooting and turnovers...
So I used Westbrook last year as an example...

Of course wall isn't better than Westbrook...yet...but then again Westbrook plays with real top tier nba talent...not efficient role players...
Not mention we've been hit with a lot of impact injuries...and even then guys are downplaying the effect of players like beal...

Wall has an argument last year for top 5 for sure. This year though, Lowry and Lillard have just been better. Even when guys have gone down around CP, Westbrook (who's support last year was worse than Wall's this year IMO), Lillard losing 4 starters, and Lowry, they've been better. Wall is very good, top 8, but not 5 this season.

[deneem4]

They still count. And he was .2 percent worse from the field. This isn't really a gap. And the rest of the numbers are just loads in favor the other way. I'm done here because you're arguing him against CP and Curry too, and I see the lack of statistical understanding. If you think he's near the top 3, I can't help. I read the Wiz board b/c most of you guys are frankly awesome. But phew this debate.

I never argued against curry sometimes cp3...but not in this debate...I don't even argue against Lillard...or Westbrook....but this board especially this specific topic seems to think there are 7-8 other point guards better than wall..simply because of wall shooting and turnovers...
So I used Westbrook last year as an example...

Of course wall isn't better than Westbrook...yet...but then again Westbrook plays with real top tier nba talent...not efficient role players...
Not mention we've been hit with a lot of impact injuries...and even then guys are downplaying the effect of players like beal...

Wall has an argument last year for top 5 for sure. This year though, Lowry and Lillard have just been better. Even when guys have gone down around CP, Westbrook (who's support last year was worse than Wall's this year IMO), Lillard losing 4 starters, and Lowry, they've been better. Wall is very good, top 8, but not 5 this season.

Cp3 has deandre and redick
Lowry still has derozan
Lillard has McCollum

Wall has temple, and whatever people make of gortat...

[bondom34]

I never argued against curry sometimes cp3...but not in this debate...I don't even argue against Lillard...or Westbrook....but this board especially this specific topic seems to think there are 7-8 other point guards better than wall..simply because of wall shooting and turnovers...
So I used Westbrook last year as an example...

Of course wall isn't better than Westbrook...yet...but then again Westbrook plays with real top tier nba talent...not efficient role players...
Not mention we've been hit with a lot of impact injuries...and even then guys are downplaying the effect of players like beal...

Wall has an argument last year for top 5 for sure. This year though, Lowry and Lillard have just been better. Even when guys have gone down around CP, Westbrook (who's support last year was worse than Wall's this year IMO), Lillard losing 4 starters, and Lowry, they've been better. Wall is very good, top 8, but not 5 this season.

Cp3 has deandre and redick
Lowry still has derozan
Lillard has McCollum

Wall has temple, and whatever people make of gortat...

And Wall has Beal and Gortat. And those guys have performed well w/o their stars.

[Sluggerface]

I used to enjoy reading threads on this board. Now, every thread is full of anti-stats, eye-test homers. Might as well be reading BF.

This board is still far, far ,far and away better than BF or the subreddit.

[nate33]

If John wall isn't a top 5 point guard which point guards has had more success in the last 2 seasons??
Curry?
Cp3?

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Lowry

All were better than Wall over the past 2 seasons, at least when healthy. Wall does deserve a lot of credit for his durability.

[AFM]

If John wall isn't a top 5 point guard which point guards has had more success in the last 2 seasons??
Curry?
Cp3?

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Lillard
Lowry

All were better than Wall over the past 2 seasons, at least when healthy. Wall does deserve a lot of credit for his durability.

He said "success" which leaves Lowry off the list. Wake me when he gets past the first round.

[dckingsfan]

I might add that this season it would be Curry -> Paul & Westbrook -> Lowry, Parker (best defensive season of his career) -> Lillard

Then the next group and Wall is right there. IMO, if John could reduce his TOs and shoot better or distribute the ball more, the Wizards would have won more games. And he would have been up with Lillard. But he has had some real stinkers this year.

Still, we are a lotto team without Wall. No question.

[payitforward]

A board like this is for fans to express their opinions. As a fan, as I stated, my opinion is swayed by my fan loyalty. Claiming that I was as unbiased as you are for a mere human like me would be impossible. But I watch enough and played enough ball to know every baller is flawed. My opinion that Wall is one of the top 5 point guards is shared by ESPN pre-season rankings as well (I think) but hey...its just an opinion. My question for you is this. Would the wiz be significantly better with lowery and the exact same roster... My opinion- No. Y'all gonna miss JW when he demands a trade and we go through another decade of lottery basketball.

It's true that for a mere human being, I'm quite extraordinary. On this board only AFM can compare with me -- and even that is only in his own eyes. I appreciate your understanding of my great qualities and your public recognition here.

The perspicuity of this action on your part makes me comprehend how deep your understanding is of human affairs, of which after all basketball is one. Hence, you must be right about John Wall. Not only is he top 5, he is top .5 -- 1/2 of John Wall is better than any other point guard. I'm glad this is finally settled.

As you know, deneem has declared that the current Philadelphia 76ers would contend for a title if only they had John Wall at point guard. But only by reading your analysis have I penetrated to the heart of the matter: with John Wall as point guard, an average D League team would become an average NBA team. An average NCAA team would win the European championship. And an average high school roster would waltz through the NCAA tournament and emerge as national champions.

It's foolish to think that cutting down turnovers would make John Wall better. How could they? In fact, it may be that he only commits these extra turnovers in order not to appear too good -- making his friends in the league feel bad.

As to your final sentence, I feel pretty sure that if John Wall were to leave the Washington Wizards, Ted would shut the franchise down. What would be the point of continuing?

[payitforward]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2015&p2=walljo01&y2=2016&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Let's lose our most efficient player...so wall can be more aggressive...we might miss the playoffs but next season he will be regarded as a top 3 point guard even with the horrible efficiency and turnover rate...

I wonder how is Westbrook top 3 with efficiency numbers like that without durant...
Points don't matter right? I mean that's what they say when I bring up cousins production...

Thunder didn't make the playoffs last year...so was Russell Westbrook bad???..is Russell Westbrook a top 3 point guard without durant?

Westbrook missed 13 games, OKC was 1 game out of the playoffs, they were easily in with him. And they still had 45 wins.

...45 wins in a by far tougher conference. But don't waste your time. deneem can't be swayed by facts.

Anybody who thinks Wall is comparable to Westbrook is just defending a belief -- that has no basis in the real world. Westbrook had a terrific season last year, and he's having a much better one this year.

For that matter, despite deneem's "analysis," John Wall is having a better season this year than he did last year -- despite the fact that the team is under .500. John Wall is a terrific player. Westbrook's just even better. Ditto a few other guys.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

I used to enjoy reading threads on this board. Now, every thread is full of anti-stats, eye-test homers. Might as well be reading BF.

This board is still far, far ,far and away better than BF or the subreddit.

Not yet, but it just seems to be an unusually high number of BF-style posters. The Wiz realGM board used to be a beacon of knowledge for all basketball fans. Now, we have deneem representing us in a debate with bondom34