Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[payitforward]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

[LyricalRico]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/27/10855288/baby-its-cold-outside-so-lets-make-a-deal

I could live with all of these!

Neal+Hump for Gibson is a variation on deals we've discussed here for a while, and I'd absolutely go for that to upgrade the frontcourt rotation. It was probably more likely before the Noah injury, but still has a shot IMO since it gives the Bulls shooting and more cap space in the summer (which they may need if Gasol opts out).

[payitforward]

Well here is the thing, There are deals out there that make this team better now, and later. The 8th seed is not terrible this year. The cavs are not unbeatable. Kevin love if flawed ON that team, Kyrie is overrated, and LeBron is showing his age. If we do something Drastic like turn beal and a future first in two some good young starters and role players, we can make a run. I still think our best bet is teaming up with Philly, giving them Beal and they send one of their bigs to another team, We get Covington, and some good players form the other team. Denver, Orlando, The kings, The clippers, Nets, Jazz, and team like that would be good for this kind of three way trade.

If "there are deals out there that make this team better now and later" -- sure, lets do as many of those as possible! Of course! But... I'm still waiting to hear about one of those. Robert Covington, for example, is a 25 year old small forward. He's a nice player, an ok player, but I can't see him as someone to target.

Moreover, if we send out Beal, we are left with Garrett Temple and Gary Neal as our 2s. That's not a way to "make this team better now" (depending on who else we got back obviously...).

This off-season Nene goes away, and I sure hope we see the back of Gooden and Humphries. At which point we wouldn't have a single 4 on our roster -- not even one! If we were to send Beal to Philly, I'd want Noel back. Nate thinks his future is as a back up Center, but I see a 21 year old who is putting up excellent numbers already: looks like a starter to me, and maybe a really good one.

Still, Nate may be right -- we'll find out over time. And, Beal is another guy whose future is uncertain, so maybe that makes the trade appropriate. I'd certainly roll with that deal, especially if we got another young player. E.g. T.J. McConnell (but would they do that?), Richaun Holmes, or even Christian Wood.

Actually... Beal for Noel plus whatever would indeed make us better now. But I wonder what Beal's injury and his injury *history* have done to his trade value?

#1 Robert Covington is the perfect small ball 4 for this team. He, is not a true SF no more than Draymond green is. Not saying he will be that god, but he would be a major upgrade at the 4 over any 4 we have.
The whole point of my post was to say that by giving Philly a young star that they so desperately need and want. they will send out a young big to a team in need and we can get some really good young pieces in return.
I've made many posts about this.
To denver, for harris, hickson and Barton
to portlnd for McCollum and vonleh
Orlando for Oladipo and Nicholson.
Houston for KJ and Jones.
Plenty of others out there too, obviously these are just ideas and filler and other things need to be worked out and obviously some of these would not work. But We need to think our of the box here, Just Oh hey Beal for noel lets go, that's kind of not creative. Let the 76Ers send the value for us, we give them beal and we take what we can from them and the other team.

Well... sure: e.g. Beal for Covington and, as you say, "some good players" from a 3d team in the deal. Only the question is what good players? Could be a great deal could be a bad deal depending on how those blanks get filled in, right?

Some of your trades listed above I can't see happening: e.g. Orlando isn't going to send us Oladipo straight up for Beal, let alone w/ Nicholson as a filler.

[payitforward]

If he's playing terribly because he's pouting about playing for the Suns - Is that a valid excuse or is it another reason to not want him on our team?

He got mad because his brother got traded so he is purposely not playing hard and he stated many times he doesn't want to play there. Players need new location to freshen up their career. He can still play and starting with Wall would be easy points for him. The Wizards need a player like him.

Just in case I wasn't clear, that makes him a complete and utter moron imo who I would never want on my team.

Well put!

[AFM]

We only take special kinds of morons round these parts. The creme de la creme so to speak.

[nate33]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

[nuposse04]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

If you're guaranteed to sign Mike Conley then yah. If you can flip Beal/Porter in a three team deal sending a nearly equal PG to Utah with another possible asset than that is worth exploring too. The trade Gortat for cap space and a youngish player. I'd probably offer a contract to Horford in the offseason run:

Wall
Stop gap/Temple
Oubre
Horford
Favors

would be great defensively. Bring Tomas over as a backup guard, resign Sessions, sign Nicholson as a S4 off the bench. Would need to get a couple decent wings however. A lot of this would be predicated in Oubre becoming a decent pro by next season, and not fouling so much

[Wizardspride]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

Judging from the question I assume you would?

[nuposse04]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

Judging from the question I assume you would?

I love Wall, but Favors is the more productive player. In a vacuum, favors is still better then him. If I can put em both on the same team... I would.

[LyricalRico]

I love Wall, but Favors is the more productive player. In a vacuum, favors is still better then him. If I can put em both on the same team... I would.

What about expanding it to Wall+Beal+Porter for Favors+Hayward? Then expirings and a future first for Teague?

Gortat
Favors
Hayward
Oubre
Teague

I think we'd still be in position to make an offer to Durant this summer, but we'd also be well positioned if he does a LeBron and signs a 1+1 deal to stay in OKC until Westbrook's deal is up. We'd be good for another year, and then we'd have max space again to sign him in 2017.

[nuposse04]

I love Wall, but Favors is the more productive player. In a vacuum, favors is still better then him. If I can put em both on the same team... I would.

What about expanding it to Wall+Beal+Porter for Favors+Hayward? Then expirings and a future first for Teague?

Gortat
Favors
Hayward
Oubre
Teague

Assuming we'd still be in a position to sign Durant after that, here's next year's lineup:

Gortat
Favors
Durant/Oubre
Hayward/Oubre
Teague

We aren't going to get Durant without Wall still on the roster. Even if Teague may be as productive as Wall, no hyperstars will be clamoring to go from Westbrook to Teague, let alone Wall.

The point is to get Wall and Favors on the same team. I think we could turn Beal+Porter/Oubre+Gortat into Favors in some form should we bring another team into it. I don't know which team has a locked up PG they are willing to part with so readily however... Maybe Brandon Knight? But PHX has Booker so no reason for them to want Beal. Also UTAH does have Hayward and Hood, who are fine for a wing tandem so not like they'd be upgrading with Beal and Porter.

Blah, lets just trade Dudley and a 2nd for T. Jones and call it a day

[pcbothwel]

Can anyone name a time a team traded a player like Wall? I dont mean caliber of player, i mean circumstance. So basically the following criteria:
1) Drafted by team to by franchise player (So top 5 pick).
2) On second contract with 2+ years until FA
3) Legitimate top 10 player at his position/Borderline AS
4) No recent history at the time of the trade of significant injury or character concern.

To get to the second contract you have to start with the 2011 draft and work back about 15 years (1996 draft)... I am seeing only the following candidates:
Bogut:
Similarities: #1 pick that signed a 5/60M contract after his rookie deal and was dealt to GSW with 2 years left
Differences: Never made an AS game and had two significant injury's (Wrist / Elbow and Ankle) the two years preceding the trade. Brandon Jennings was also the "Face" of the franchise at that point

CP3:
Similarities: #4 pick that signed a 4/64M contract after his rookie deal
Differences: Was Dealt to LAC with 1.5 years left and the state of the NOH being owned by the NBA called for them to cash in on expensive assets at the time.

Pau:
*** Can someone confirm the contract status for Gasol when he was traded in Feb of 2008

Vince Carter:
Similarities: #5 pick that signed a 6/96M contract after his rookie deal. Traded to Nets with 4+ years
Differences: None that stand out, except that Bosh was in his 2nd year and looked to take the mantle. Though people could say the same about Beal

Ray Allen
Similarities: #5 pick that signed a 6/70M contract after his rookie deal. Traded to Sonics with 2.5 years left
Differences: None that stand out

**** So that puts only 5 players in the last 15 year in this category with one not really being a franchise player (Bogut) and the other (Pau) im not certain of his contract at the time.
To me, Ray Allen is the only relevant case study as the Hornets (CP3), Grizzlies (Pau), and Raptors (Vince) were all deadline sellers that were looking to rebuild over the next few years.

Ray Allen was traded for Gary Payton and the Bucks were trying to stay competitive, which I assume would be our motive

[nate33]

Can anyone name a time a team traded a player like Wall? I dont mean caliber of player, i mean circumstance. So basically the following criteria:
1) Drafted by team to by franchise player (So top 5 pick).
2) On second contract with 2+ years until FA
3) Legitimate top 10 player at his position/Borderline AS
4) No recent history at the time of the trade of significant injury or character concern.

To get to the second contract you have to start with the 2011 draft and work back about 15 years (1996 draft)... I am seeing only the following candidates:
Bogut:
Similarities: #1 pick that signed a 5/60M contract after his rookie deal and was dealt to GSW with 2 years left
Differences: Never made an AS game and had two significant injury's (Wrist / Elbow and Ankle) the two years preceding the trade. Brandon Jennings was also the "Face" of the franchise at that point

CP3:
Similarities: #4 pick that signed a 4/64M contract after his rookie deal
Differences: Was Dealt to LAC with 1.5 years left and the state of the NOH being owned by the NBA called for them to cash in on expensive assets at the time.

Pau:
*** Can someone confirm the contract status for Gasol when he was traded in Feb of 2008

Vince Carter:
Similarities: #5 pick that signed a 6/96M contract after his rookie deal. Traded to Nets with 4+ years
Differences: None that stand out, except that Bosh was in his 2nd year and looked to take the mantle. Though people could say the same about Beal

Ray Allen
Similarities: #5 pick that signed a 6/70M contract after his rookie deal. Traded to Sonics with 2.5 years left
Differences: None that stand out

**** So that puts only 5 players in the last 15 year in this category with one not really being a franchise player (Bogut) and the other (Pau) im not certain of his contract at the time.
To me, Ray Allen is the only relevant case study as the Hornets (CP3), Grizzlies (Pau), and Raptors (Vince) were all deadline sellers that were looking to rebuild over the next few years.

Ray Allen was traded for Gary Payton and the Bucks were trying to stay competitive, which I assume would be our motive

What about Jason Kidd? How many times was he traded? Steve Nash (though he wasn't a high pick)? Steve Francis? Tracy McGrady?

I'm just rambling off the top of my head. Star players in general aren't traded all that much, but I don't think it's so rare that one should do a double-take before contemplating trading Wall.

[LyricalRico]

^ Antawn Jamison I think was in that situation when he was dealt to Dallas. What about Deron Williams going from Utah to NJ? Or maybe Marbury back in the day?

(Wow, lots of PGs on these lists. Maybe there's a lesson in that?)

[Ruzious]

Lew Alcindor was my favorite player growing up. The saying after he got traded from Milwaukee to the Lakers was - If Lew Alcindor can get traded, ANYONE can get traded.

[pcbothwel]

Nate,
Nash was traded by the Suns in his second year (Far from Franchise player at the time) and then he signed with them from Dallas as a FA, not a trade.
Ill give you the Jason Kidd/Marbury and the Francis/McGrady trade, So that makes three trades along with Allen for Payton that would be similar to our position.
It should be noted that all three of these trades occured in a three year span between June 2001 to June 2004. I would say that the NBA landscape has changed quite a bit in that time.

Again, I was just curious about the history of this kind of move where you essentially take your mid 20's Star/Franchise player that you've had for 5+ years and trade him for relatively equal parts/talent. Meaning, not salary relief and draft picks.

[pcbothwel]

^ Antawn Jamison I think was in that situation when he was dealt to Dallas. What about Deron Williams going from Utah to NJ? Or maybe Marbury back in the day?

(Wow, lots of PGs on these lists. Maybe there's a lesson in that?)

Antawn is borderline as I think the Warriors were looking at Arenas, Richardson, Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, and Dampier as their future lineup and were more or less getting out of Jamisons new contract (Similar to Nene being traded here from Denver) along with Danny Fortson and Chris Mills who were costing the GSW 22M .

Deron Williams doesnt count as he was an expiring contract that made it clear he wanted to leave (Like Melo).

I already mentioned Marbury.

So again, its three trades that fit (Jason Kidd/Marbury, Francis/McGrady, and Allen for Payton) and all of those occurred almost 15 years ago.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

On draft day I said don't draft Wall, trade down for the pick of Cousins plus Favors or Turner.

[sashae]

I don't see the point of trading Wall -- this is a league that's driven by perimeter and strong point guard play. Favors is an excellent player, but you then have a cavernous hole in the backcourt that'll be filled by.. Sessions? I think the Conley move is honestly a pipe dream, but I guess we'll see. I'm more inclined to try to throw money at Harrison Barnes next season after we fail to score Durant.

[TGW]

Prompted by the above string of posts I took a look at Jazz players' numbers. Jeff Withey, whom some of us begged for the Wizards to sign when he was available, is playing very well for them. He looks to be demonstrating that yes he is definitely an NBA player and a pretty good one.

Withey's progress combined w/ the terrific play of Gobert might make the Jazz FO willing to trade Favors, depending on what they could get back. Trevor Booker will be unrestricted this Summer, btw: I'd be happy to see him in our uni again. Rather have Withey, however.

Would you trade Wall for Favors?

It could make sense if we turned around and signed Mike Conley as a free agent.

On draft day I said don't draft Wall, trade down for the pick of Cousins plus Favors or Turner.

And that would have a been a colossal mistake, since neother Favors nor Cousins have done anything remotely great in their careers except pad stats on losing teams.