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Political Roundtable Part XVII

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dckingsfan
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#761 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:13 pm

DCZards wrote:A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.

And maybe Gallup should have asked the question - is Obama, Trump, the Fed or the free market responsible for the resiliency in economy.

Funny when the polls ask the wrong question.

But I guess your point is that politically, we aren't giving Trump credit - and that is a very good thing.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#762 » by DCZards » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:35 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#763 » by DCZards » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:50 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.

And maybe Gallup should have asked the question - is Obama, Trump, the Fed or the free market responsible for the resiliency in economy.

Funny when the polls ask the wrong question.

But I guess your point is that politically, we aren't giving Trump credit - and that is a very good thing.


It’s likely true, and most Americans would probably agree, that the improvements to the economy made under Pres. Obama were largely the result of decisions made by the Fed, the resiliency of the economy, and decisions made by the Obama Administration.

It’s up to people to decide for themselves which of these (or something else) was the most important factor.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#764 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:17 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.

And maybe Gallup should have asked the question - is Obama, Trump, the Fed or the free market responsible for the resiliency in economy.

Funny when the polls ask the wrong question.

But I guess your point is that politically, we aren't giving Trump credit - and that is a very good thing.


It’s likely true, and most Americans would probably agree, that the improvements to the economy made under Pres. Obama were largely the result of decisions made by the Fed, the resiliency of the economy, and decisions made by the Obama Administration.

It’s up to people to decide for themselves which of these (or something else) was the most important factor.

The problem with not looking at it critically is that one could then say that Trump was the one who broke us out... just like voters who though Obama was the one that broke us out... rarely should a POTUS get the credit or the blame (other than as a secondary or tertiary influence).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#765 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:44 pm

Pointgod wrote:
popper wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
So tell me what exactly the destruction of America looks like to you in terms of multiculturalism. What does national suicide look like?


I'd want to reopen my history books to give you an answer worthy of your time. I can easily imagine that subgroups of Americans would continue to splinter, but in a accelerated fashion, and hatred toward one another would intensify. Probably increasing race against race violence as well. Levels of trust among subgroups would disintegrate and any healthy avenue for interracial understanding would be constricted. These animosities would no doubt have a deleterious effect on our economic system as well.
Again, the history books are a better place to find the answers to your question.


I’m not an expert on American history, but racial violence was a reality for black people in America since the end of slavery. This never spilled out into a race war and black people never started insurgent groups or retaliated in kind to the treatment they had received. They fought for civil rights through peaceful means. The 60’s were a time of significant civil unrest in the name of civil rights and also there were a ton of assissinations thrown in there as well. My point is that America has been through a lot, yet it’s never slipped into the type of chaos you believe comes with multiculturalism. Are you basing your beliefs on sources or personal experience?


This is actually a very good post from PointGod.

This is just one of the reasons that I think African-Americans are among the greatest group of people on the entire planet. Any other group on the planet would have revolted through non-peaceful means and in ways that would have damaged the country. The sacrifice our african american have made for this country is almost the reason this country had enough wealth to become its own country and weaned itself off of the banking European elite for a 125 years. (Until 1913 when the European Elite banking class recaptured the "united states" for their own purposes, but i digress).

And at this point in history i am very proud and happy to see so many african americans prospering at the middle class, upper middle class, and upper class levels.

The inequality issue remains in the lower class and entitlement class. Where most, if not all of our lower class african americans have been here in this country for 5,6,7,8,9 generations and the system is not working for them. We Americans owe them more than that. We must (re)create a system that works for them. They have more than paid their dues. Their ancestors have sacrificed like no other racial group almost anywhere on planet earth. We owe them. Its that simple for me.

We owen them, bigly!!!

And i personally believe that immigration reform is at the cruz of making the system work better for african americans at the lower socio-economic levels. I also think law and order is desperately needed in the neighborhoods.

I cant say this enough. My entire patient base is south side city of chicago workers. Thousands of african-american teachers and african-american police officers. They tell me the same thing every single day. WE CAN FIX THIS!!!!

IN schools:
1. good schools have 20 kids in a class. 18-19 want to learn. 1-2 dont and attempt to disrupt class.
2. average schools have 12-15 kids trying to learn. 5-8 trying to disrupt class.
3. Poor schools in troubled areas have 8-10 kids trying to learn and 10-12 trying to disrupt class.

The answer is simple!!! get those troubled kids out of that school!!!! Or at least out of that class!!! Put them in a military type school. With more structure. more discipline. Less focus on learning and more focus and on structure. Physicality. Exhaist them physically to the point that they can sit down and attempt to learn. and once you got their attention? then try to teach them something. But mostly? Just get them out of the class and out of the school with the kids that are actually trying to learn!!!!!!!!! Poor kids will learn too once you get the 8-10 jack azzes out of the class that are disrupting the class and bullying kids for trying to learn. Get em out!!!! African-American Teachers, principles and the entire school district superintendents have been telling me this for years!!!! But instead we have a policy in chicago called "no child left behind." In this no child left behind policy we have 19 years old (men) in the same class with 13 year old girls. Is that a good idea????????? really???????

In neighborhoods:
African-American police officers have been telling me this for years!! YEARS!!!
1. Just let them do their damn job!!!!!!!!

that's it!!! one damn rule!!! They say that they know where the enemy sleeps. The enemy in their neighborhoods are the drug dealers that purposefully trap young men and women (teenagers) on drugs. getting them hooked on drugs. and the women pregnant. and then hooked on entitlements. and often prostitution for the women. and then make the young men sell drugs on street corners and fight for their drug turf (with Guns). Get them out!!!!! and dont be nice about!!!!!!!! Why in God's name are we being nice about removing these predator drug dealers??? Especially if the police force in the area is 80-90% african american??? and those african americans are from that neighborhood!!!?????? Why are we worried about bull like "rights" when our children are being manipulated and abused!!!??? These are NOT white cops. They are african american cops that grew up in these neighborhoods!!!!

There should come a point when you say enough is enough!!!! "Bill of rights" be damned we are fixing this shxt so we do NOT put one more single african american child at risk to this crap!!! And to me? Its racists no NOT FIX THIS STUFF!! To continue to leave it alone. and let this shxt continue is RACIST to me. Racist policy. That democrats have been employing in inner cities for over 40 years!!!! Allowing this crap to continue!!!

And why???? Why are we allowing this??

African americans have proven that they will flourish with fair opportunity. That they will indeed rise to the very top of any field. IQ test be damned! They will become some of our best leaders and greatest of americans!!! FACT!! So why are we allowing high density african-american neighborhoods to continue to be preyed upon by drug dealers?????

Right now, those higher density, poorer african american neighborhoods are poor and working poor. But we know if there was more work opportunity and pay check with dignity more available, that these children will indeed succeed and flourish.

But our immigration laws and policy wont allow this to happen. We keep letting highly more motivated low end labor immigrants into this country. Which hurts our lower class and working poor(both white and black). It keeps their wages very low and opportunity extremely low. And instead keeps luring poor Americans(all of them: white, black, and brown) into the entitlement trap. And it is indeed a trap!!!

Immigration reform and closing off our borders to low end labor is a MAJOR MAJOR necessity to fixing our african american high density poor neighborhoods. And everyone with half a brain cell knows it!! Everyone!

Let me restate:

The teachers in these communities tell me we can fix the schools. Almost overnight.

The police in the neighborhoods tell me we can clean them up. Almost overnight.

and yes, that was a Grandmaster Flash reference.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#766 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:55 pm

DCZards wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:its really weird to me the length people will go to make trump look bad. No matter the cost to the reputation of the united states of america. We now have 55 african countries demanding an apology.


No need for people to go to any length to make Trump look bad. #45 does a good job of doing that himself. Trump's words and actions both as a candidate and as president have done far more harm to the country's reputation than anything that people might say about him.


stilldropin20 wrote:Meanwhile, Stock market keeps rising. Up 40%!!!! since he took office. aside: My GF's mom is not wealthy. worked her whole life to put her 2 daughters through Northwestern. Her 401K is work 100K more today over 1 year ago. She needs that money to retire. GDP will likely hit 4% soon. Unemployment might go under 4% soon.

Things could not be going any better because trump is striking gold with every single policy change. Everything he does is working and he is just now barely getting his sea legs.


A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.


1. it was a closed door meeting. Not an official statement. there was no reason to release this statement. it was incendiary. It made The entire country look bad. and the statement is clearly taken out of context. Dems are simply hurting the country with these tactics and hurting their negotiating power with trump and the GOP: whom can do this daca deal and immigration reform with out one single vote from the democrats. and he can wait for funding for the wall in the infrastructure deals-which dems want...so he can simply Not sign without funding for the wall. they will never get 67 votes to override his veto on any future infrastructure deal. HE WILL GET HIS WALL. :nod: :nod:

2. The current (rocket fuel) state of economy is almost solely based on his tax reform. Every single economist (on wall street) says so. I'll concede that we were slowly climbing out of the recession under Obama. No doubt. But Obama's policies did little to nothing to cause that recovery and he spent 6 trillion just on the recovery bill. :noway: :noway:
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#767 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Two interesting stories in the Review section of the NY Times today - and one that we have been discussing at length.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/opinion/sunday/heartbeat-of-racism-denial.html

Kendi posits that it isn't enough to not be racist but rather you must confess (and all (remedies) that are implied with a confession). If you don't confess, then you are a denier and therefore a racist. I think that this articulates what others have been trying to convey on the board.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/sunday-review/hillary-clinton-feminist-movement.html

The feminist movement - they got pissed off and took to the streets and are ready to elect more women than at any time in our history. There are more women graduating from college (and more than men) than at any time in our history.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#768 » by CobraCommander » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:03 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter


its really weird to me the length people will go to make trump look bad. No matter the cost to the reputation of the united states of america. We now have 55 african countries demanding an apology.

(before I get to my point main point let me address this apology demand). Go phuck yourself to all 55 of them. And if Norway, sweden or anyone else wants an apology? phuck you too!!!!! literally 2 fingers up to anyone that thinks Trump owes anyone an apology.

let me be crystal clear here. This is a private meeting behind closed doors. What's next? Seriously what's next? How about we release photos of Barrack Obama taking a dump or masturbating to lesbian german porn? How about that? Barrack supposed to apologize for that?? I dont think so. No appology necessary. Same for Trump. No appology necessary. Nothing bad happened here besides and idiot senator (from my state no less) is playing he said she said with the president of the united states. Which should be a crime. Dick Durban should be censured and removed from office.

Let me repeat this for the 10th time in this thread. Barrack Obama Killed over 15,000 people with drone strikes. nearly all of them brown. and among them are an estimated 4000 women and children civilians. What about those brown people?? they are dead! their country and infrastructure decimated in many places. We can kill all those "innocent children and women" and thats OK???? Not a peep from main stream media??? But Trump calls another country and shxthole and this is somehow a major issue

Go back and read carefully what he said.
It's not that Trump just said those countries were ***holes. He implied that there was something wrong with the people from those countries.

If you combine these latest comments with what he "allegedly" said a few weeks about about Haitians and Nigerians there's a pattern forming. And it's not good.

Let me refresh your memory:

According to six officials who attended or were briefed about the meeting, Mr. Trump then began reading aloud from the document, which his domestic policy adviser, Stephen Miller, had given him just before the meeting. The document listed how many immigrants had received visas to enter the United States in 2017.

More than 2,500 were from Afghanistan, a terrorist haven, the president complained.

Haiti had sent 15,000 people. They “all have AIDS,” he grumbled

Forty thousand had come from Nigeria, Mr. Trump added. Once they had seen the United States, they would never “go back to their huts” in Africa, recalled the two officials, who asked for anonymity to discuss a sensitive conversation in the Oval Office.


Assuming he actually made those comments above you don't see how someone could interpret them (and the most recent ones as a tad bit racist?

Look at it like this:

Even before he was elected some people were concerned that Trump had racist tendencies.

I mean we all know white supremacists were supporters of his. Ask yourself why that was the case.

His advisors are/have been people like Steve Bannon/Stephen Miller/Sebastian Gorka, Michael Anton etc.

All white nationalists. Ok. I'm sorry. They claim to be "Nationalists".

And last but not least he chose Jeff Sessions as his AG.

It's no secret who and WHAT Jeff Sessions is...yet Trump CHOSE him as his AG.


Trump has repeatedly shown at the very least he has some "biases".

And when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them.

And I DO. :dontknow:


Racism masking as nationialism sounding like jingoism but is obviously racism.

The thing thats interesting is, Trump appears to be less educated about what he is saying and what it is eliciting than the rest of us that live in the real world. Most of his “followers” are probably not racist in the traditional sense- but enough of them are just run of the mill racist. The problem for the rest of us is that we cant tell the difference between the two when they all wear red hats, white polos and carry those tiki torches....plus MOST are not educated enough to even discuss, let alone comprehend long term impacts of the perceived racist views coming from the leader of America. Notice i didn’t say leader of the free world...that title is being challenged at this point...because without the moral high ground (perceived, real or otherwise) we are just another weathly powerful country with massive destructive power. My thought was people followed America because we were good AND we had a money and weapons- NOT perfect...but we aspire to be good and strive to make a more perfect union. People in India love India but if they are of a certain cast they could come to America and be equals...and that would not happen in their homeland. Which is what makes America great... either way man...we see through the lies. I love making more money...and deregulation isnt my enemy...the people that excuse trump for racism because he is for free markets and they perceive that he is good for the financial markets (WOW PEOPLE DONT REMEMBER THE BUBBLES OF OUR LIFETIME-Or that deregulation IS always followed by regulation and vice versa- dont really understand the cyclical nature of financial markets) are essentially saying the same thing about the German economy while ignoring the trains full of Jews....and people act like we haven’t seen this picture before—— all it takes for evil to win is for the good people to do nothing folks....RESIST...not for Obamas sake...or because you are a Democrat or because you are a minority...this is a moral crisis and its sad that some well intentioned Americans are more impressed with their captial gains and worried about Hillarys emails than they are about the lasting impact of having the head of our country reversing years of hard work towards acceptance of other people into our nation as equals...not based on where they are from but who they are...content of character and all that... :noway:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#769 » by CobraCommander » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:13 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:its really weird to me the length people will go to make trump look bad. No matter the cost to the reputation of the united states of america. We now have 55 african countries demanding an apology.


No need for people to go to any length to make Trump look bad. #45 does a good job of doing that himself. Trump's words and actions both as a candidate and as president have done far more harm to the country's reputation than anything that people might say about him.


stilldropin20 wrote:Meanwhile, Stock market keeps rising. Up 40%!!!! since he took office. aside: My GF's mom is not wealthy. worked her whole life to put her 2 daughters through Northwestern. Her 401K is work 100K more today over 1 year ago. She needs that money to retire. GDP will likely hit 4% soon. Unemployment might go under 4% soon.

Things could not be going any better because trump is striking gold with every single policy change. Everything he does is working and he is just now barely getting his sea legs.


A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.


1. it was a closed door meeting. Not an official statement. there was no reason to release this statement. it was incendiary. It made The entire country look bad. and the statement is clearly taken out of context. Dems are simply hurting the country with these tactics and hurting their negotiating power with trump and the GOP: whom can do this daca deal and immigration reform with out one single vote from the democrats. and he can wait for funding for the wall in the infrastructure deals-which dems want...so he can simply Not sign without funding for the wall. they will never get 67 votes to override his veto on any future infrastructure deal. HE WILL GET HIS WALL. :nod: :nod:

2. The current (rocket fuel) state of economy is almost solely based on his tax reform. Every single economist (on wall street) says so. I'll concede that we were slowly climbing out of the recession under Obama. No doubt. But Obama's policies did little to nothing to cause that recovery and he spent 6 trillion just on the recovery bill. :noway: :noway:


Dude you need to stop watching Fox News...closed door meeting doesn’t mean classified or secret...government officials work for the people of the United States...how they make the sausage SHOULD be important to all of us. He will get his Wall...Mexico will pay for it...and Mexicans (and other people) will come here via aero-plane, via auto-mobile and tunnel. I guess you have never ever ever gone to the boarder of Mexico and saw these
Image
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#770 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:36 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
No need for people to go to any length to make Trump look bad. #45 does a good job of doing that himself. Trump's words and actions both as a candidate and as president have done far more harm to the country's reputation than anything that people might say about him.




A Gallup poll last week showed that 49% of those surveyed give Obama credit for our current economy compared to 40% for Trump. So it's clear that the American people aren't drinking the Kool-Aid Trump and you are selling regarding what Trump has accomplished on behalf of our economy.


1. it was a closed door meeting. Not an official statement. there was no reason to release this statement. it was incendiary. It made The entire country look bad. and the statement is clearly taken out of context. Dems are simply hurting the country with these tactics and hurting their negotiating power with trump and the GOP: whom can do this daca deal and immigration reform with out one single vote from the democrats. and he can wait for funding for the wall in the infrastructure deals-which dems want...so he can simply Not sign without funding for the wall. they will never get 67 votes to override his veto on any future infrastructure deal. HE WILL GET HIS WALL. :nod: :nod:

2. The current (rocket fuel) state of economy is almost solely based on his tax reform. Every single economist (on wall street) says so. I'll concede that we were slowly climbing out of the recession under Obama. No doubt. But Obama's policies did little to nothing to cause that recovery and he spent 6 trillion just on the recovery bill. :noway: :noway:


Dude you need to stop watching Fox News...closed door meeting doesn’t mean classified or secret...government officials work for the people of the United States...how they make the sausage SHOULD be important to all of us. He will get his Wall...Mexico will pay for it...and Mexicans (and other people) will come here via aero-plane, via auto-mobile and tunnel. I guess you have never ever ever gone to the boarder of Mexico and saw these
Image


bro, i was stationed in San Diego for 5 months in '92. Many a trip to Tijuana. That pic is tame compared to what it was like in '92 at tijuana border.

1. You secure that border.
2. Dont allow migrant workers to cross daily and work here undocumented.
3. put our existing entitlement class back to work with those jobs the migrants are taking.
4. make employers pay a livable wage. At least $15 per hour in cities. $10 per hour in small towns (where cost of living is less expensive)
5. Wages will rise.
6. Remove the permanent hammock from temporary safety net entitlements.

None of this is impossible. laws of supply and demand will make employers put our own unemployed Americans to work.

Imagine. Just imagine that our manufacturing "issue" was more about corporate tax rates versus the availablity of an american working class willing to do those jobs. Imagine that! Americans are willing to work!!?? Imagine that!!! Cuz I have lived all over this country. And if there is one thing that I am certain of. You put a proper dollar amount on a job and an american will happily do that job!!

So"
1. better trade deals. trade laws. including tariffs on imports if necessary.
2. Immigration reform.
3. and competitive corporate tax rates will work!!!

And if I were trump? If i were in charge of everything? I would enact a corporate tax reform where if you do 30% or more of your "business"(sales) within the united states I would force you register your corporation within the United States so you pay all of your corporate taxes to the united states government. And if a corporation does NOT comply?? I would immediately place a 30% tariff on your product. and again, over-phucking-night! Imagine those tariff dollars!! :droop: :droop:
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#771 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:52 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Two interesting stories in the Review section of the NY Times today - and one that we have been discussing at length.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/opinion/sunday/heartbeat-of-racism-denial.html

Kendi posits that it isn't enough to not be racist but rather you must confess (and all (remedies) that are implied with a confession). If you don't confess, then you are a denier and therefore a racist. I think that this articulates what others have been trying to convey on the board.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/sunday-review/hillary-clinton-feminist-movement.html

The feminist movement - they got pissed off and took to the streets and are ready to elect more women than at any time in our history. There are more women graduating from college (and more than men) than at any time in our history.


What if we have more of a problem with existing racist policy than people?

For example. right now. what i keep hearing is that if we do NOT keep allowing haitians, Africans, Mexicans, etc into the country then you are a racist. to oppose that. Right? thats the crux of the argument from the left.

yet, imo, it is sanctuary cities policy and the "old" federal policy that keeps saturating the low end labor force with more and more people that makes it extremely difficult for poor people to keep and find gainful employment. Why are 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th,10th generation african americans still poor?????? Especially working poor???? if your family has been here 150 years or more and you are willing to work, and you are still poor!!!!!??? travesty to me!!! The united states should be ashamed of itself!!!!!! All of us should immediately work to correct this!!!

So it makes no sense to me to keep over saturating the low end labor force. Because immigrants come here and are more motivated to work for very low wages. Where our existing Americans (white, black, and brown) are taking an easier route of entitlements. which make governement less sustainable and raise the working class' taxes.

Why????

how about we raise wages to a livable wage!! remove permanent entitlements (keep temporary safety nets in place)...which will hope keep americans motivated to work...and put our existing entitlement class to work with respectable wages where they can regain their dignity and buy back in to "american values." Where they too can believe again in the "american dream."

And instead we have policy that discourages that!!!!! And I would argue that the policy itself is racists first and foremost. And that policy has created an entitlement class that the working class resents. In white communities they call the entitlement whites "hillbillies" and they are resented just the same. Why??????!!!!

We can fix this with immigration reform combined with entitlement reform combined corporate tax reform combined with better trade deals including tariffs if necessary.

Again, the policy is racist!!! IMO.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#772 » by Pointgod » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:36 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:And maybe Gallup should have asked the question - is Obama, Trump, the Fed or the free market responsible for the resiliency in economy.

Funny when the polls ask the wrong question.

But I guess your point is that politically, we aren't giving Trump credit - and that is a very good thing.


It’s likely true, and most Americans would probably agree, that the improvements to the economy made under Pres. Obama were largely the result of decisions made by the Fed, the resiliency of the economy, and decisions made by the Obama Administration.

It’s up to people to decide for themselves which of these (or something else) was the most important factor.

The problem with not looking at it critically is that one could then say that Trump was the one who broke us out... just like voters who though Obama was the one that broke us out... rarely should a POTUS get the credit or the blame (other than as a secondary or tertiary influence).


If this is the case then why is it that the economy is the number one reason that people vote on when choosing a President? Is it that Americans have been misinformed to believe the President is more responsible for the economy than he actually is?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#773 » by Wizardspride » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:58 pm

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter



Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#774 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:05 am

Pointgod wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:It’s likely true, and most Americans would probably agree, that the improvements to the economy made under Pres. Obama were largely the result of decisions made by the Fed, the resiliency of the economy, and decisions made by the Obama Administration.

It’s up to people to decide for themselves which of these (or something else) was the most important factor.

The problem with not looking at it critically is that one could then say that Trump was the one who broke us out... just like voters who though Obama was the one that broke us out... rarely should a POTUS get the credit or the blame (other than as a secondary or tertiary influence).

If this is the case then why is it that the economy is the number one reason that people vote on when choosing a President? Is it that Americans have been misinformed to believe the President is more responsible for the economy than he actually is?

Absolutely. And even more so when we have deficits and have limited ability to spur the economy. Then it falls on the fed.

Now, Presidents can impair the economy with bad policy (see Hoover & Carter) but rarely are the they primary reason for an economy to take off. Trump shouldn't be receiving the credit for what is going on.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#775 » by verbal8 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 am

One strange result of Trump's presidency us it might weaken the connection between economic performance and the president. It seems Trump isn't getting much credit for an economy that is doing pretty well. If people continue to generally see Trump as ineffective, but the economy is seen as strong, the next president might also be seen as less responsible for the economy.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#776 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 am

Fox's next superstar right here!! I brought her to you guys a month ago. She is catching fire. She is informed. She has strong opinions. I would not be surprised if she runs for office. soon. follow her. she is awesome!!

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#777 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:18 am

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#778 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:21 am

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#779 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:43 am

verbal8 wrote:One strange result of Trump's presidency us it might weaken the connection between economic performance and the president. It seems Trump isn't getting much credit for an economy that is doing pretty well. If people continue to generally see Trump as ineffective, but the economy is seen as strong, the next president might also be seen as less responsible for the economy.

It's important to separate the leading indicators from the lagging indicators.

Low unemployment is a lagging indicator. It's tough to give Trump all that much credit for it, other than perhaps he has generated enough optimism that employers are more willing to hire in anticipation of future work.

The stock market and producer and consumer optimism surveys are leading indicators and they ramped upward the moment Trump was elected and never looked back. I think Trump deserves a fair amount of credit for that. The market is up in anticipation of tax cuts, deregulation, dropping the Paris Climate Treaty, and getting out of TPP.

If unemployment remains low and drops further over the next few years, and if wages at the low end of the spectrum start to rise, I think Trump will deserve and get the credit for that because that will be due to his immigration and trade policies (and presumably the infrastructure bill).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVII 

Post#780 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:28 am

nate33 wrote:
verbal8 wrote:One strange result of Trump's presidency us it might weaken the connection between economic performance and the president. It seems Trump isn't getting much credit for an economy that is doing pretty well. If people continue to generally see Trump as ineffective, but the economy is seen as strong, the next president might also be seen as less responsible for the economy.

It's important to separate the leading indicators from the lagging indicators.

Low unemployment is a lagging indicator. It's tough to give Trump all that much credit for it, other than perhaps he has generated enough optimism that employers are more willing to hire in anticipation of future work.

The stock market and producer and consumer optimism surveys are leading indicators and they ramped upward the moment Trump was elected and never looked back. I think Trump deserves a fair amount of credit for that. The market is up in anticipation of tax cuts, deregulation, dropping the Paris Climate Treaty, and getting out of TPP.

If unemployment remains low and drops further over the next few years, and if wages at the low end of the spectrum start to rise, I think Trump will deserve and get the credit for that because that will be due to his immigration and trade policies (and presumably the infrastructure bill).


agree. i would add that Trump should and will eventually get full credit for the historic lows that unemployment levels. 4.1% now. Prognosticators are pegging 3.8-3.9%.

A good immigration reform bill will get us to 3.6% imo. and African-american unemployment below 5%. This would be historic! And trump has an inner city initiative on the way to bring jobs back to the inner cities.

If the trump admin can combine a good immigration reform, with tax reform (repatriating trillions that were offshore), with a good infrastructure bill, with deregulation, with better trade deals, dropping out of paris, etc. If he can put it all together we will get some massive synergy between all of these policies. This will add even more rocket fuel to the great economy that we are already experiencing.

I keep harping on the "money supply" in this thread. This is the money big banks make available to small banks for small business loans and small time investors PLUS the money large banks make to large businesses. It completely depends on the confidence the big banks have in our economy and our markets. Those credit markets were just beginning to ease back up under Obama. barely. but in 2016 i began to be offered lines of credit. In 2017 those lines of credit ballooned! The amounts ballooned.

let me explain. My tax returns have not changed much from 2009-2016. And 2015 and prior I simply could not get a small business loan without personally guaranteeing the loan and providing 3 years of tax returns corporate and personal. Right now I can get signature loans solely on the strength of my corporations income and for millions of dollars. Good rates. Fully funded in 24 hours. Without submitting a single tax return. And without personally guaranteeing the loan!!!

I am not alone. This is purely a trump effect on the economy. It was somewhat like this from 1998-2006. I've seen this movie before. This massive "bump" is almost solely based on credit markets being wide open right now. Our money supply is flush with cash.

And this will end. I guarantee everyone reading. this will end. Here's the question. Do you want it to end in 2018? 2019? 2022? 2025? Up to you! and right now its solely based on whether or not trump can get this thing rolling even further downhill and how long he can keep it running down hill.

This is a good thing folks. This is a good time. Stop worrying about your feelings. Stop worrying about other countries. be selfish! Take care of your self. Ride this wave. Help this wave keep its energy for as long as possible. If you need to "pretend" you are a democrat for your friends and family? Go ahead. At the ballot box I strongly urge you to vote for trump and other GOP that will help trump implement all of his policies.

this will all end. Ride it now. Ride it as long as possible. help it gain momentum. we put all these potential trump policies together and get this synergy? and we are looking at the 1950's and 1960's all over again. So long as we keep the suplly of labor lower, corporations will be forced to compete for your labor!!!! :nod: :nod: :nod: Wages will rise! :nod: :nod: :nod: Corporations will be forced to provide your medical insurance!!! Not the government!! :nod: :nod: You wont need obamacare. You will have free medical and dental like your parents did in the 1960's and 70's. and into the 1980's. it was the abundant supply of labor that killed you medical and dental benefits!! MAke no mistake about it!! Your Unions lost their power!!!! because immigrants came in and did the job for less and without benefits!!! :nod: :nod:

Put an end to this nonesense!!! Once and for all!! keep the supply of labor low and your wages will rise.

And this Hurts me!!! I'm a small business owner. this will cost me!! But so long as all of my neighbors (patients) are making more money my business will prosper!!!! Thats how it works folks. Anyone else who dresses this up as anything else is lying to you!!!! Its simple supply and demand.
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