Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[nate33]

How many Benghazi hearings and investigations were tehre? How many hearings/investigations about her emails?

Literally the SCANDAL with her emails was that she used a private email server!

That is scandalous. Why do you think she used a private server? Because she wanted to hide her communications from the FOIA. What was she hiding? And by doing so, she ended up exposing God knows how much classified information.

I'm talking about a witch hunt over something that every campaign does.

[cammac]

Do you honestly think there would be this type of witch hunt if Clinton had won? Seriously.

Absolutely it went on during the Obama years and would have continued if she had of won!
You know that!
Hell Obama could have went after the Bush administration which was guilty as hell but choose to try for "National Unity" in a crisis economic situation propagated by 43.

So you honestly think there would have been a media clamor for a special prosecutor? I think that's delusional.

Also, it's interesting to note what you said about the Bush Administration. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush operatives talked to foreign agents to dig up dirt on the Obama's. And it wouldn't surprise me if Obama agents did the same thing. That's another point I'm trying to make. This stuff happens all the time. Candidates dig up dirt on their opponent from wherever they can get it. You could have this witch hunt after every election, but it's only happening to Trump. What does that tell you?

Poor Nate his hero is being picked on!
He has done nothing!
He didn't want to LOCK HER UP!
He believes that Russia didn't interfere in the election process!
He didn't listen to advice not to hire General Flynn!
He didn't claim that 3 million illegal voters cost him the election plurality!
He didn't fire the FBI director.
He didn't ask the directors of NSA & CIA to vouch for him in the firing!
His son in law didn't try to have direct communication with the Russian through Russian secure channels in the Russian embassy?
His son colluded with the Russians in trying to get dirt on Clinton and never reported it to the FBI.
Could go on & on!

[gtn130]

How many Benghazi hearings and investigations were tehre? How many hearings/investigations about her emails?

Literally the SCANDAL with her emails was that she used a private email server!

That is scandalous. Why do you think she used a private server? Because she wanted to hide her communications from the FOIA. What was she hiding? And by doing so, she ended up exposing God knows how much classified information.

I'm talking about a witch hunt over something that every campaign does.

LOL, I mean you're immediately jumping to the worst and most nefarious possible outcome. Listen to yourself!

Why couldn't it be that she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology and preferred her Blackberry?

And please point to a single email that indicated she was HIDING STUFF FROM FOIA

[nate33]

Absolutely it went on during the Obama years and would have continued if she had of won!
You know that!
Hell Obama could have went after the Bush administration which was guilty as hell but choose to try for "National Unity" in a crisis economic situation propagated by 43.

So you honestly think there would have been a media clamor for a special prosecutor? I think that's delusional.

Also, it's interesting to note what you said about the Bush Administration. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush operatives talked to foreign agents to dig up dirt on the Obama's. And it wouldn't surprise me if Obama agents did the same thing. That's another point I'm trying to make. This stuff happens all the time. Candidates dig up dirt on their opponent from wherever they can get it. You could have this witch hunt after every election, but it's only happening to Trump. What does that tell you?

Poor Nate his hero is being picked on!
He has done nothing!
He didn't want to LOCK HER UP!
He believes that Russia didn't interfere in the election process!
He didn't listen to advice not to hire General Flynn!
He didn't claim that 3 million illegal voters cost him the election plurality!
He didn't fire the FBI director.
He didn't ask the directors of NSA & CIA to vouch for him in the firing!
His son in law didn't try to have direct communication with the Russian through Russian secure channels in the Russian embassy?
His son colluded with the Russians in trying to get dirt on Clinton and never reported it to the FBI.
Could go on & on!

I'll ask you the same question I asked gtn130.

Would you be clamoring for Clinton's impeachment if she won?

[closg00]

I've got an honest question for the anti-Trump liberals on this board about this whole Russia thing.

Basically, the allegation against Trump was that he was working with Russians to rig the election. By "working with Russians", we mean that Trump and his people were having covert meetings with various Russian operatives to try and get political dirt about Clinton. The evidence of this is basically Carter Page's contacts with Russians, Papadopoulous bragging about contacts with Russians, Donny Jr.'s meeting with a Russian, and the fact that Trump has done business with Russia in the past. Do I have that essentially correct?

Let's just assume this is all true, and that furthermore, let's assume Trump knew about it all. You guys would basically characterize this as treason worthy of impeachment. Correct?

Here's my question:

Why don't all these arguments also apply to Clinton?

We know that Clinton has had several dealings with Russia including the Uranium One deal. Whether or not there was anything shady involved, it's fair to say that the Clintons have profited off of those Russian deals. Fair? So that's roughly analogous to Trump profiting in the past from his business deals in Russia. We know that Clinton has had hired directly or indirectly several operatives to talk with Russian operatives trying to dig up dirt on the Trump campaign. These people include Christopher Steele and Cody Shearer. We even know that the CIA received (allegedly fake) dirt on Trump in a recent transaction involving an exchange of $100,000.

Why is it that everyone is focused on the Trump working with Russians, but nobody focuses on Clinton working with Russians? How can you not say that Clinton attempted to "rig an election" with the same fervor as Trump?

This doesn't even rise to the level of a weak case of false equivalency because there is nothing at all to Uranium One.

1.Uranium One debunked on Fox News
2. There is nothing illegal about opposition research and Clinton had nothing to do with it
3. The opposition research yielded disturbing information that Steele attempted to get to the FBI, the Clinton campaign cannot be shown to have used any of the information during the campaign

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

How many Benghazi hearings and investigations were tehre? How many hearings/investigations about her emails?

Literally the SCANDAL with her emails was that she used a private email server!

That is scandalous. Why do you think she used a private server? Because she wanted to hide her communications from the FOIA. What was she hiding? And by doing so, she ended up exposing God knows how much classified information.

I'm talking about a witch hunt over something that every campaign does.

LOL, I mean you're immediately jumping to the worst and most nefarious possible outcome. Listen to yourself!

Why couldn't it be that she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology and preferred her Blackberry?

And please point to a single email that indicated she was HIDING STUFF FROM FOIA

So your saying she hired an expert team of IT people to install a server in her home because she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology? Do you really believe this or are you trolling?

Clinton intentionally set up a private server for a reason. The federal government would have given here a State.gov account with every feature her private server had, except for the ability to hide from FOIA requests. The only reason she procured a private server was to hide stuff. This is self-evident.

[popper]

I have my suspicions but I've withheld judgement on the alleged Trump collusion and/or obstruction of justice matters because until we get Mueller's final report to DOJ, it's all just speculation. Likewise, I'm withholding judgement on the FBI and DOJ handling of Clinton email investigation by the IG until his report is published. Last, I think there will be an additional investigation by a Special Prosecutor or IG into the FISA warrant process as it relates to the Trump dossier and other related FISC matters. I just hope that all investigations are done as expeditiously as possible.

[cammac]

So you honestly think there would have been a media clamor for a special prosecutor? I think that's delusional.

Also, it's interesting to note what you said about the Bush Administration. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush operatives talked to foreign agents to dig up dirt on the Obama's. And it wouldn't surprise me if Obama agents did the same thing. That's another point I'm trying to make. This stuff happens all the time. Candidates dig up dirt on their opponent from wherever they can get it. You could have this witch hunt after every election, but it's only happening to Trump. What does that tell you?

Poor Nate his hero is being picked on!
He has done nothing!
He didn't want to LOCK HER UP!
He believes that Russia didn't interfere in the election process!
He didn't listen to advice not to hire General Flynn!
He didn't claim that 3 million illegal voters cost him the election plurality!
He didn't fire the FBI director.
He didn't ask the directors of NSA & CIA to vouch for him in the firing!
His son in law didn't try to have direct communication with the Russian through Russian secure channels in the Russian embassy?
His son colluded with the Russians in trying to get dirt on Clinton and never reported it to the FBI.
Could go on & on!

I'll ask you the same question I asked gtn130.

Would you be clamoring for Clinton's impeachment if she won?

For me personally NO because as far as I'm aware she was cleared of all misdeeds!
If I remember correctly both Kushner & Ivanka had private e-mail accounts and Pence did when he was Governor of Indiana.
Did I think Clinton was the proper candidate absolutely not simply because of 24 years in Washington and Bill lots could and was thrown out!

[gtn130]

That is scandalous. Why do you think she used a private server? Because she wanted to hide her communications from the FOIA. What was she hiding? And by doing so, she ended up exposing God knows how much classified information.

I'm talking about a witch hunt over something that every campaign does.

LOL, I mean you're immediately jumping to the worst and most nefarious possible outcome. Listen to yourself!

Why couldn't it be that she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology and preferred her Blackberry?

And please point to a single email that indicated she was HIDING STUFF FROM FOIA

So your saying she hired an expert team of IT people to install a server in her home because she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology? Do you really believe this or are you trolling?

Clinton intentionally set up a private server for a reason. The federal government would have given here a State.gov account with every feature her private server had, except for the ability to hide from FOIA requests. The only reason she procured a private server was to hide stuff. This is self-evident.

She could have easily said "i don't like this email system. set up a different one so i can use my device of choice" and her team made it happen. You act like she's out there writing SQL scripts or something

[nate33]

This doesn't even rise to the level of a weak case of false equivalency because there is nothing at all to Uranium One.

1.Uranium One debunked on Fox News
2. There is nothing illegal about opposition research and Clinton had nothing to do with it
3. The opposition research yielded disturbing information that Steele attempted to get to the FBI, the Clinton campaign cannot be shown to have used any of the information during the campaign

Watch on YouTube

1. I'm not trying to get into the whole Uranium One can of worms because I haven't researched it. I'm not, at the moment, alleging that anything nefarious took place regarding Uranium One, other than the fact that Clinton profited off the deal. Which makes it equivalent to Trump profiting off of business deals with Russia. (And all we know about his business dealings with Russia is that he profited off of them. We know of nothing else nefarious.)

2. Clinton certainly had as much to do with the opposition research as Trump did. C'mon, Cody Shearer was a long time Clinton crony and Clinton hired Fusion GPS.

3. Clinton, once she found out that Trump's people talked to Russians, immediately introduced the Russia Russia Russia issue into debates, labeling Trump as Putin's pawn. That qualifies as using the Russian-obtained intel against Trump. Again, it's equivalent to the Trump campaign utilizing the available dirt on Clinton found in the hacked emails.

[nate33]

LOL, I mean you're immediately jumping to the worst and most nefarious possible outcome. Listen to yourself!

Why couldn't it be that she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology and preferred her Blackberry?

And please point to a single email that indicated she was HIDING STUFF FROM FOIA

So your saying she hired an expert team of IT people to install a server in her home because she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology? Do you really believe this or are you trolling?

Clinton intentionally set up a private server for a reason. The federal government would have given here a State.gov account with every feature her private server had, except for the ability to hide from FOIA requests. The only reason she procured a private server was to hide stuff. This is self-evident.

She could have easily said "i don't like this email system. set up a different one so i can use my device of choice" and her team made it happen. You act like she's out there writing SQL scripts or something

No she couldn't. It's a violation of the NARA's rules in the Code of Federal Regulations for Clinton to use personal email exclusively. And it's absolutely a violation to send sensitive but unclassified information over a private server. And sending classified information over the server is a crime.

[gtn130]

So your saying she hired an expert team of IT people to install a server in her home because she was an old grandma who didn't understand technology? Do you really believe this or are you trolling?

Clinton intentionally set up a private server for a reason. The federal government would have given here a State.gov account with every feature her private server had, except for the ability to hide from FOIA requests. The only reason she procured a private server was to hide stuff. This is self-evident.

She could have easily said "i don't like this email system. set up a different one so i can use my device of choice" and her team made it happen. You act like she's out there writing SQL scripts or something

No she couldn't. It's a violation of the NARA's rules in the Code of Federal Regulations for Clinton to use personal email exclusively. And it's absolutely a violation to send sensitive but unclassified information over a private server. And sending classified information over the server is a crime.

Cool but there’s a difference between breaking the rules out of convenience and breaking the rules to HIDE TREASONOUS ACTIVITY.

What matters in this case is the court of public opinion.

[gtn130]

Nate you realize there is ample evidence many people in the Trump admin use personal devices for work right? Thing is nobody cares including you

[nate33]

Nate you realize there is ample evidence many people in the Trump admin use personal devices for work right? Thing is nobody cares including you

Occasional use of private devices is okay as long as it doesn't involve Classified or Sensitive But Unclassified information.

[Zonkerbl]

OMG STOP TALKING ABOUT CLINTON

Nate I understand wanting to deflect things, because his side is basically f@ck#d. WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS ENGAGING HIM?

[gtn130]

I mean why engage at all? He’s obviously arguing in bad faith

[Zonkerbl]

So what do we do when Trump fires Rosenstein, and the next quisling in line ends the investigation?

Should the Northwest and Northeast just secede?

[gtn130]

Nate you realize there is ample evidence many people in the Trump admin use personal devices for work right? Thing is nobody cares including you

Occasional use of private devices is okay as long as it doesn't involve Classified or Sensitive But Unclassified information.

What a whimsical coincidence that you are deeply passionate about following the letter of the law as it applies to both email server management and FISA warrant application.

Meanwhile Trump can trample over any law he sees fit - or excuse me, follow the law ‘less strenuously’ as you put it

[gtn130]

So what do we do when Trump fires Rosenstein, and the next quisling in line ends the investigation?

Should the Northwest and Northeast just secede?

We should definitely try rioting in the streets and shutting down the economy. If that doesn’t work it might be time to secede or move somewhere

[Pointgod]

I've got an honest question for the anti-Trump liberals on this board about this whole Russia thing.

Basically, the allegation against Trump was that he was working with Russians to rig the election. By "working with Russians", we mean that Trump and his people were having covert meetings with various Russian operatives to try and get political dirt about Clinton. The evidence of this is basically Carter Page's contacts with Russians, Papadopoulous bragging about contacts with Russians, Donny Jr.'s meeting with a Russian, and the fact that Trump has done business with Russia in the past. Do I have that essentially correct?

Let's just assume this is all true, and that furthermore, let's assume Trump knew about it all. You guys would basically characterize this as treason worthy of impeachment. Correct?

Here's my question:

Why don't all these arguments also apply to Clinton?

We know that Clinton has had several dealings with Russia including the Uranium One deal. Whether or not there was anything shady involved, it's fair to say that the Clintons have profited off of those Russian deals. Fair? So that's roughly analogous to Trump profiting in the past from his business deals in Russia. We know that Clinton has had hired directly or indirectly several operatives to talk with Russian operatives trying to dig up dirt on the Trump campaign. These people include Christopher Steele and Cody Shearer. We even know that the CIA received (allegedly fake) dirt on Trump in a recent transaction involving an exchange of $100,000.

Why is it that everyone is focused on the Trump working with Russians, but nobody focuses on Clinton working with Russians? How can you not say that Clinton attempted to "rig an election" with the same fervor as Trump?

This is how you render any argument that you were trying to make bull