Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[payitforward]

... do you really want Tony Snell for $12m+ in '20-21? ...

Im not worried about 20-21. ....

IMO, you couldn't have provided a more succinct insight into how we got where we are in the first place. If you don't take a long view, you can't contend for a title (unless LeBron decides he wants to spend a couple of years in your city).

...This is the best way to get the full look at our Trio with support pieces, not pay the repeater tax, and maintaining flexibility to cash out before their contracts expire if we dont make the leap... with the East in flux and our players under control....

We've looked at "our Trio" for a combined total of 19 seasons. We know who they are. We know how they play.

Since those 3 guys will combine for $92+m next year & $98+m the following year, their contracts alone make it impossible to add significant talent. *That* is the defining fact about the Wizards right now.

Replacing Oubre with someone whose decision date is a little further out doesn't impact finances significantly enough to redefine our situation. That's a pipe dream, sorry.

Howard doesn't change that fact -- 2 teams took big hits to get rid of him. Why do you think that is? Moreover, if he plays really well for us this year then he isn't going to pick up his option or be available for $5m.

One of "our Trio" will have to go. & that's why we are reading rumors about it already. That doesn't mean we have to be a lottery team again. But the idea that we can be in a league with the 3 best teams in this, the junior conference...? That's a myth.

You don't spend tons of money pursuing a myth. Not if you are even minimally talented as a business person.

[pcbothwel]

PIF,
Future: You're are taking my comments out of context about 20-21. What I am saying is that our run with this group is two years. So 20-21 doesnt matter because we would have traded them off and cut salary at that point...

Trio: Well, we saw in 16/17 what they could do and it was tremendous. And that was before Brad or Otto were hitting their prime.
You take that group and sub in Howard, Rivers, and Jeff Green for Gortat, Burke/Thornton, and Bojan.... Ughhh, better team.

That doesnt even take into account the tremendous strides Oubre and Sato have made. 2300 minutes of Terrible players in exchange for 3500 minutes of average-above average players is Huge.


*** Back to cost cutting. Assuming we just waive/stretch Mahinmi, these are trades that have better financial implications:
To NOP for Solomon Hill (Seems unlikely now that they added Jah)
To ATL for Miles Plumlee
To Bulls for Felicio & Payne (Or go big and add in Smith and Asik, remove Payne)
To Bucks for Delly & Wilson (We add in 2019 1st)

The ATL trade seems straight forward. They get a better player for slight cost increase (We can send a little cash). We save 6.5M over 5 years (1.3M per)

The Bulls trade would really be big... Why?
Bulls take on 37M and we take on 38M = Advantage Bulls
Bulls get out of Felicio's year 3 = Advantage Bulls
Wiz drop from 21.4M in salary this year to 6.1M = Advantage Wiz

Gives us enough room to add 2 vet min players and be under tax.
We dont trade any players that are contributors = John and Co are happy
We dont trade picks/prospects = Fans happy
We dont pay repeater tax = Ted (moderately) happy

In fact, it might be a little to good for the Bulls. I would ask for a 2nd or a Meeks for Portis swap as well.

[payitforward]

... Back to cost cutting. Assuming we just waive/stretch Mahinmi, these are trades that have better financial implications:
To NOP for Solomon Hill (Seems unlikely now that they added Jah)
To ATL for Miles Plumlee
To Bulls for Felicio & Payne (Or go big and add in Smith and Asik, remove Payne)
To Bucks for Delly & Wilson (We add in 2019 1st)

The ATL trade seems straight forward. They get a better player for slight cost increase (We can send a little cash). We save 6.5M over 5 years (1.3M per)

The Bulls trade would really be big... Why?
Bulls take on 37M and we take on 38M = Advantage Bulls
Bulls get out of Felicio's year 3 = Advantage Bulls
Wiz drop from 21.4M in salary this year to 6.1M = Advantage Wiz

Gives us enough room to add 2 vet min players and be under tax.
We dont trade any players that are contributors = John and Co are happy
We dont trade picks/prospects = Fans happy
We dont pay repeater tax = Ted (moderately) happy

In fact, it might be a little to good for the Bulls. I would ask for a 2nd or a Meeks for Portis swap as well.

I must be missing something. Felicio/Asik for Mahinmi/Smith adds close to $6m next year. & another $7.5m a year later. To save $1.8m this year? Where's the drop from 21.4m to 6.1m?

Atlanta -- I don't see the interest in this trade on their part.

Ditto Milwaukee -- why?

[pcbothwel]

... Back to cost cutting. Assuming we just waive/stretch Mahinmi, these are trades that have better financial implications:
To NOP for Solomon Hill (Seems unlikely now that they added Jah)
To ATL for Miles Plumlee
To Bulls for Felicio & Payne (Or go big and add in Smith and Asik, remove Payne)
To Bucks for Delly & Wilson (We add in 2019 1st)

The ATL trade seems straight forward. They get a better player for slight cost increase (We can send a little cash). We save 6.5M over 5 years (1.3M per)

The Bulls trade would really be big... Why?
Bulls take on 37M and we take on 38M = Advantage Bulls
Bulls get out of Felicio's year 3 = Advantage Bulls
Wiz drop from 21.4M in salary this year to 6.1M = Advantage Wiz

Gives us enough room to add 2 vet min players and be under tax.
We dont trade any players that are contributors = John and Co are happy
We dont trade picks/prospects = Fans happy
We dont pay repeater tax = Ted (moderately) happy

In fact, it might be a little to good for the Bulls. I would ask for a 2nd or a Meeks for Portis swap as well.

I must be missing something. Felicio/Asik for Mahinmi/Smith adds close to $6m next year. & another $7.5m a year later. To save $1.8m this year? Where's the drop from 21.4m to 6.1m?

Atlanta -- I don't see the interest in this trade on their part.

Ditto Milwaukee -- why?

Bulls: Please see that amended that to include Meeks for Portis swap. Outside of that, I do see how that could be more or less lateral.
Maybe Rivers and Smith (18M) for Asik and Valentine (15.6M). 4.5M savings immediately, then waive Asik and save another 8.5 for 13 total. Add in vet min player and we are under tax ... and there we go...lol

Atlanta: Ehhh, I guess so

Bucks: I was thinking Delly had another year

[payitforward]

PIF,
Future: You're are taking my comments out of context about 20-21. What I am saying is that our run with this group is two years. So 20-21 doesnt matter because we would have traded them off and cut salary at that point...

Trio: Well, we saw in 16/17 what they could do and it was tremendous. And that was before Brad or Otto were hitting their prime.
You take that group and sub in Howard, Rivers, and Jeff Green for Gortat, Burke/Thornton, and Bojan.... Ughhh, better team.

That doesn't even take into account the tremendous strides Oubre and Sato have made. 2300 minutes of Terrible players in exchange for 3500 minutes of average-above average players is Huge.

What would count as success over those two years to make it worth executing your strategy? You don't think we're contending for a title, do you? So... are you suggesting that no matter what we would break everything up in two years?

Trio: we won 49 games in 2016-17, which you are calling "tremendous." Brad had his best year of his career. He went backwards last year. You are suggesting he'll return to 2016-17 form? That he will take a big jump beyond that level?

Otto was about equally good those two years. His usage was up a little this last year, so you can think of it as a bit of an improvement why not?

Oubre was terrific the first part of the year, but overall he was no better than previous season. Sato, however, was hugely better, as you say.

Otoh, tho you're right about Burke, Thornton & Bojan, yet Jason Smith had a career year, Mahinmi was far better than this year -- though in limited minutes -- & we didn't have Scott eating 1400 minutes. Nor do Rivers & Green improve anything either.

But, that doesn't matter. The single big difference between the two years, obviously, was John Wall. If he'd played the same number of minutes last year as the year before, & played at that year's level, we'd have won 49 games again.

If Wall, Beal & Porter play the same minutes as in 2016-17, while Sato & Oubre play the same minutes as in 2017-18, that will eat up 12,000 of the 19,680 player minutes in a season. If the trio plays at their 2016-17, while Sato & Oubre play at their 2017-18 level, we will be on our way to a good season.

[pcbothwel]

PIF,
Future: You're are taking my comments out of context about 20-21. What I am saying is that our run with this group is two years. So 20-21 doesnt matter because we would have traded them off and cut salary at that point...

Trio: Well, we saw in 16/17 what they could do and it was tremendous. And that was before Brad or Otto were hitting their prime.
You take that group and sub in Howard, Rivers, and Jeff Green for Gortat, Burke/Thornton, and Bojan.... Ughhh, better team.

That doesn't even take into account the tremendous strides Oubre and Sato have made. 2300 minutes of Terrible players in exchange for 3500 minutes of average-above average players is Huge.

What would count as success over those two years to make it worth executing your strategy? You don't think we're contending for a title, do you? So... are you suggesting that no matter what we would break everything up in two years?

Trio: we won 49 games in 2016-17, which you are calling "tremendous." Brad had his best year of his career. He went backwards last year. You are suggesting he'll return to 2016-17 form? That he will take a big jump beyond that level?

Otto was about equally good those two years. His usage was up a little this last year, so you can think of it as a bit of an improvement why not?

Oubre was terrific the first part of the year, but overall he was no better than previous season. Sato, however, was hugely better, as you say.

Otoh, tho you're right about Burke, Thornton & Bojan, yet Jason Smith had a career year, Mahinmi was far better than this year -- though in limited minutes -- & we didn't have Scott eating 1400 minutes. Nor do Rivers & Green improve anything either.

But, that doesn't matter. The single big difference between the two years, obviously, was John Wall. If he'd played the same number of minutes last year as the year before, & played at that year's level, we'd have won 49 games again.

If Wall, Beal & Porter play the same minutes as in 2016-17, while Sato & Oubre play the same minutes as in 2017-18, that will eat up 12,000 of the 19,680 player minutes in a season. If the trio plays at their 2016-17, while Sato & Oubre play at their 2017-18 level, we will be on our way to a good season.

Success: Getting to the 2nd round or ECF and being competitive (6-7 games) with Toronto or Boston (I am assuming both are healthy and 60 win teams). Putting us in position to make finals run the following year if either one falls off.

Break-up: Yes, we break it up no matter what, though the degree depends on the success. If are good, we reload by trading either Beal or Otto. If we fall short, 2/3 MUST be traded and full rebuild.

Trio: Yes, the play of those 3 was tremendous. They won 49 games while not even in their prime, a bad coach/system and very little supporting cast. Beal was fine last year except for his continued failures in crunch time. He looked much better on defense and most of his decline was directly from put into different role with Wall out.
On the bright side, I think that experience will help him grow as a player and he'll be better next year as a result of that... but mostly a healthy and in shape Wall.
Otto was good last year. I was directing my attention towards Wall and Beal, but included Otto just because all 3 played so well together in 16/17. So yes...same ole Otto

Soooo... I dont see your disagreement. I think we can safely assume that Oubre and Sato will be far better than 16/17, and at worst about as good as last year. Assuming Wall is back, I think everything falls into line.

*** My only caveat to the two year plan is if they are bad this year (I.E. .500). Then I simply let the playoffs play themselves out and, barring a miracle run, blow it up next summer

Also, the point about Atlanta trade was to save 5M against the cap. Atlanta is essentially neutral as we give them difference in cash. Stretch both Plumlee and Smith and we are 3.5M under tax. Enough to sign 2 FA's and give 14 players + 2 way.

Atlanta simply gets a better player and closer to the floor next year.

[NatP4]

"We've looked at "our Trio" for a combined total of 19 seasons. We know who they are. We know how they play."

what???

[payitforward]

I misread "it was tremendous" as the season was tremendous (at 49 wins), which in a sense it was I suppose. It was the best season in 30 years.

For perspective, keep in mind that the San Antonio Spurs have had exactly 1 year in the last 19 years that was as bad as our best season in 30 years.

It's a measure of the franchise that the word works for such a relatively limited set of achievements that year:

1) 4th best record in the Eastern Conference
2) 9th best record of 30 teams -- i.e. top 30% of the league
3) Lost in R2 of the playoffs

Still... it was fun!

As to the trio, each player had his best year ever. Wall was in his 7th season in the NBA. He turned 26 as the season closed. He was certainly in his prime.

Beal was in his 5th season but only 23. It was great to see a breakout from him. You are right that the decline in his numbers last year might well have been a result of playing almost 3000 minutes.

Without any doubt, however, both Beal & Porter, at 25, have entered what are typically the prime years of an NBA career. We should want continued improvement from both guys this year.

In a way, one big problem we face is that in terms of internal player development, we should also expect Boston, Philly, Indy & Milwaukee to have improved. Which kind of means that if the trio gets back on the rails our whole season might depend on how Dwight Howard works out.

[payitforward]

"We've looked at "our Trio" for a combined total of 19 seasons. We know who they are. We know how they play."

what???

Did you also LOL during arithmetic class, Nat?

[pcbothwel]

In a way, one big problem we face is that in terms of internal player development, we should also expect Boston, Philly, Indy & Milwaukee to have improved. Which kind of means that if the trio gets back on the rails our whole season might depend on how Dwight Howard works out.

I took that into account, but disagree.
Boston: Most likely to see improvement, but Kyrie and Hayward are wild cards.. they are clearly better

Philly: While I think the Sixers will be a real good team in time, I think its too early this year. I think the leagues scouting report on Simmons will outpace any improvement in his shooting. He and Embiid were also VERY healthy, so who know about that.
As for the rest of the team, Redick and Amir are getting up there and could see a decline any moment. Other gains/losses seem to offset one another.
I think Philly actually underwhelms compared to their national expectations.

Indy: Does Victor really take ANOTHER leap...it be fascinating, but i highly doubt it. You also have older players like Tyreke, Collison, and Bogey all coming off career years... I dont think they strike lightening twice. I think they are more or less the same.

Bucks: Wildcard. Who knows what effect coach Bud has, but I dont see where the big improvement comes from. Especially when they lost Parker for nothing.

[payitforward]

Philly: While I think the Sixers will be a real good team in time, I think its too early this year. I think the leagues scouting report on Simmons will outpace any improvement in his shooting. He and Embiid were also VERY healthy, so who know about that.
As for the rest of the team, Redick and Amir are getting up there and could see a decline any moment. Other gains/losses seem to offset one another.
I think Philly actually underwhelms compared to their national expectations.

Philly won 52 games last year, but it's "too early" for them to be "a real good team." The Wizards won 49 games the year before last. Tremendous!

Improvement by Philly's young players can be discounted b/c of scouting. Luckily, the Wizards young players seem to have no such problem.

The older players on the Sixers "could... decline any moment." Fortunately, our older players Howard, Mahinmi, Green & Smith are immune.

Embiid & Simmons were healthy last year -- so it's a worry that they might be injured. OTOH, Wall was injured last year, so there's nothing to be concerned about.

Indy: Does Victor really take ANOTHER leap...it be fascinating, but i highly doubt it. You also have older players like Tyreke, Collison, and Bogey all coming off career years... I dont think they strike lightening twice. I think they are more or less the same.

Our young players improve; their young player Oladipo stays the same. Their other young players (Sabonis, Turner, Leaf, Holiday & Anigbogu) have done us a big favor by disappearing altogether! You are right, that is "fascinating."

Fortunately, in order for their older players to play as they did last year, lightning must strike them -- which is dangerous! How fortunate for the Wizards that our key guys will play the way they did in their career years -- without any such risks. Ditto our older players.

Hence they will be "more or less the same."

Meaning that to put them behind us, all we have to do is post a record equal to the best record in our last 30 years.

Should be no problem. Unless someone finds those players that disappeared. That could make a difference. Maybe Kyle O'Quinn could find them? I can't see what other help he could provide, can you?

Bucks: Wildcard. Who knows what effect coach Bud has, but I dont see where the big improvement comes from. Especially when they lost Parker for nothing.

For sure. After all, Giannis has already turned 23, & we all know that guys with Greek names peak extremely early -- I mean... look at how far Icarus fell from his great heights, right?

We should be so thankful that Wall, Beal & Porter are not Greek names.

Then there's the effect of losing the 700 unproductive minutes played by Parker -- they have to recover from that too. Plus, they lost him "for nothing," which probably makes them feel bad, right?

As to coaches, they mean nothing. And, like them, we have a coach that means nothing.

Obviously, with nothing changed, the Bucks have no more chance of posting a better record than the Wizards than they did last year.

[NatP4]

The pacers are a glue guy low usage 3&D wing away from being my favorite to win the east. They have quality bigs in Turner, Sabonis, and now Kyle O'Quinn. They have one of the top guard trios in the league in Oladipo, Evans, and Collison (also Aaron Holiday now). They can probably play both Oladipo and Evans at the wing spot. I believe they also added Alize Johnson who has potential to turn into a nice hustle role player.

Collison Holiday
Oladipo Evans
Bojan Johnson
Young Sabonis
Turner O'Quinn

imagine Otto Porter on that team as you 3/4 wing guy. Wait a minute, why is Otto Porter more useful to every team in the NBA but ours?

[dckingsfan]

The pacers are a glue guy low usage 3&D wing away from being my favorite to win the east. They have quality bigs in Turner, Sabonis, and now Kyle O'Quinn. They have one of the top guard trios in the league in Oladipo, Evans, and Collison (also Aaron Holiday now). They can probably play both Oladipo and Evans at the wing spot. I believe they also added Alize Johnson who has potential to turn into a nice hustle role player.

Collison Holiday
Oladipo Evans
Porter Bojan Johnson
Young Sabonis
Turner O'Quinn

imagine Otto Porter on that team as your 3/4 wing guy. Wait a minute, why is Otto Porter more useful to every team in the NBA but ours?

That would be ugly... that would be a very nice team.

[Dat2U]

... do you really want Tony Snell for $12m+ in '20-21? ...

Im not worried about 20-21. ....

IMO, you couldn't have provided a more succinct insight into how we got where we are in the first place. If you don't take a long view, you can't contend for a title (unless LeBron decides he wants to spend a couple of years in your city).

...This is the best way to get the full look at our Trio with support pieces, not pay the repeater tax, and maintaining flexibility to cash out before their contracts expire if we dont make the leap... with the East in flux and our players under control....

We've looked at "our Trio" for a combined total of 19 seasons. We know who they are. We know how they play.

Since those 3 guys will combine for $92+m next year & $98+m the following year, their contracts alone make it impossible to add significant talent. *That* is the defining fact about the Wizards right now.

Replacing Oubre with someone whose decision date is a little further out doesn't impact finances significantly enough to redefine our situation. That's a pipe dream, sorry.

Howard doesn't change that fact -- 2 teams took big hits to get rid of him. Why do you think that is? Moreover, if he plays really well for us this year then he isn't going to pick up his option or be available for $5m.

One of "our Trio" will have to go. & that's why we are reading rumors about it already. That doesn't mean we have to be a lottery team again. But the idea that we can be in a league with the 3 best teams in this, the junior conference...? That's a myth.

You don't spend tons of money pursuing a myth. Not if you are even minimally talented as a business person.

Look at the payroll of Golden State & Cleveland the last few years and please tell me how a team can be fiscally responsible AND compete for a title in today's NBA?

There's no question we need to add talent but to have a real shot we need to ADD to the talent base we already have not trade it away in hopes of a lightning strike. Trading Wall for expirings doesn't help us - it just creates a massive hole to fill. Maybe we'd be lucky to get a quality player on a better deal but relying on free agency to find an upgrade or multiple upgrades is generally a path towards disappointment.

I also think your shortchanging the ceiling of our 3. Apparently to you, they've already maxed out but when considering all other teams, their players have room for improvement while ours seemingly don't? I don't quite understand how Indy looks locked and loaded to you when a number of their rotation guys had career years. What if one or two of our guys had career years?

[youngWizzy]

Read on Twitter

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

That’s not bad

[payitforward]

Look at the payroll of Golden State & Cleveland the last few years and please tell me how a team can be fiscally responsible AND compete for a title in today's NBA?

There's no question we need to add talent but to have a real shot we need to ADD to the talent base we already have not trade it away in hopes of a lightning strike. Trading Wall for expirings doesn't help us - it just creates a massive hole to fill. Maybe we'd be lucky to get a quality player on a better deal but relying on free agency to find an upgrade or multiple upgrades is generally a path towards disappointment.

I also think your shortchanging the ceiling of our 3. Apparently to you, they've already maxed out but when considering all other teams, their players have room for improvement while ours seemingly don't? I don't quite understand how Indy looks locked and loaded to you when a number of their rotation guys had career years. What if one or two of our guys had career years?

I don't question that to go from a team with a shot to contend to an actual contender or an NBA champion will wind up costing a lot of money. But, first you establish that you are that team with a shot. We haven't done that yet, Dat.

What was GS's salary in 2012-13? What was their salary in 2014-15 when they won the title? Cleveland was built around LeBron.

I'm not shortchanging Wall/Beal/Porter. Lets start w/ the fact that they aren't a unit. Otto Porter is way farther along in his career than Beal in 2 fewer seasons (given him missing his rookie year). No way is he maxed out. Beal is a little more uncertain.

But John Wall -- a guy who has already played 8 seasons & over 17000 minutes -- is a mature player not a developing one.

But I'm not sure what your point is, Dat. I was basically having fun with pcbothwei. He was the one claiming to know what was or wasn't possible for the teams we compete with.

If our trio all have career years, & Satoransky has another jump like the jump last year (& plays big minutes), & Oubre fulfills his promise, & Howard is terrific, & Rivers doesn't play much, etc. etc. etc. why... no question we could have a terrific season.

[dckingsfan]

Look at the payroll of Golden State & Cleveland the last few years and please tell me how a team can be fiscally responsible AND compete for a title in today's NBA?

There's no question we need to add talent but to have a real shot we need to ADD to the talent base we already have not trade it away in hopes of a lightning strike. Trading Wall for expirings doesn't help us - it just creates a massive hole to fill. Maybe we'd be lucky to get a quality player on a better deal but relying on free agency to find an upgrade or multiple upgrades is generally a path towards disappointment.

I also think your shortchanging the ceiling of our 3. Apparently to you, they've already maxed out but when considering all other teams, their players have room for improvement while ours seemingly don't? I don't quite understand how Indy looks locked and loaded to you when a number of their rotation guys had career years. What if one or two of our guys had career years?

I don't question that to go from a team with a shot to contend to an actual contender or an NBA champion will wind up costing a lot of money. But, first you establish that you are that team with a shot. We haven't done that yet, Dat.

What was GS's salary in 2012-13? What was their salary in 2014-15 when they won the title? Cleveland was built around LeBron.

I'm not shortchanging Wall/Beal/Porter. Lets start w/ the fact that they aren't a unit. Otto Porter is way farther along in his career than Beal in 2 fewer seasons (given him missing his rookie year). No way is he maxed out. Beal is a little more uncertain.

But John Wall -- a guy who has already played 8 seasons & over 17000 minutes -- is a mature player not a developing one.

But I'm not sure what your point is, Dat. I was basically having fun with pcbothwei. He was the one claiming to know what was or wasn't possible for the teams we compete with.

If our trio all have career years, & Satoransky has another jump like the jump last year (& plays big minutes), & Oubre fulfills his promise, & Howard is terrific, & Rivers doesn't play much, etc. etc. etc. why... no question we could have a terrific season.

I just don't see this team as it is built being able to compete for a title as it is constructed. And given our cap situation I don't see being able to add the talent that we need to compete for a title (see below). I also don't see our big three having enough growth room to drag our anemic FC along as the Brooks' offense and defense dictates to compete for a title. I don't see Brooks as a good enough coach to change Wall's habits so that he continues to progress past his '16-17 season.

Code: Select all

John Wall          $37,800,000
Otto Porter        $27,250,576
Bradley Beal       $27,093,019
Ian Mahinmi        $15,450,051
Dwight Howard       $5,603,850
Troy Brown          $3,219,480
                  $116,416,976


My point is that we are in no-mans land - in the playoffs but not able to push much further up the food chain. Guessing that the Wall contract will become an albatross sooner rather than later.

[dangermouse]

Read on Twitter

Imagine being a fan of a team so well respected around the league that when another team signs your off-cuts your team name is casually dropped for no real reason, but it still carries weight.

Whereas "ex-wizard" is basically an insult.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Look at the payroll of Golden State & Cleveland the last few years and please tell me how a team can be fiscally responsible AND compete for a title in today's NBA?

There's no question we need to add talent but to have a real shot we need to ADD to the talent base we already have not trade it away in hopes of a lightning strike. Trading Wall for expirings doesn't help us - it just creates a massive hole to fill. Maybe we'd be lucky to get a quality player on a better deal but relying on free agency to find an upgrade or multiple upgrades is generally a path towards disappointment.

I also think your shortchanging the ceiling of our 3. Apparently to you, they've already maxed out but when considering all other teams, their players have room for improvement while ours seemingly don't? I don't quite understand how Indy looks locked and loaded to you when a number of their rotation guys had career years. What if one or two of our guys had career years?

I don't question that to go from a team with a shot to contend to an actual contender or an NBA champion will wind up costing a lot of money. But, first you establish that you are that team with a shot. We haven't done that yet, Dat.

What was GS's salary in 2012-13? What was their salary in 2014-15 when they won the title? Cleveland was built around LeBron.

I'm not shortchanging Wall/Beal/Porter. Lets start w/ the fact that they aren't a unit. Otto Porter is way farther along in his career than Beal in 2 fewer seasons (given him missing his rookie year). No way is he maxed out. Beal is a little more uncertain.

But John Wall -- a guy who has already played 8 seasons & over 17000 minutes -- is a mature player not a developing one.

But I'm not sure what your point is, Dat. I was basically having fun with pcbothwei. He was the one claiming to know what was or wasn't possible for the teams we compete with.

If our trio all have career years, & Satoransky has another jump like the jump last year (& plays big minutes), & Oubre fulfills his promise, & Howard is terrific, & Rivers doesn't play much, etc. etc. etc. why... no question we could have a terrific season.

I just don't see this team as it is built being able to compete for a title as it is constructed. And given our cap situation I don't see being able to add the talent that we need to compete for a title (see below). I also don't see our big three having enough growth room to drag our anemic FC along as the Brooks' offense and defense dictates to compete for a title. I don't see Brooks as a good enough coach to change Wall's habits so that he continues to progress past his '16-17 season.

Code: Select all

John Wall          $37,800,000
Otto Porter        $27,250,576
Bradley Beal       $27,093,019
Ian Mahinmi        $15,450,051
Dwight Howard       $5,603,850
Troy Brown          $3,219,480
                  $116,416,976


My point is that we are in no-mans land - in the playoffs but not able to push much further up the food chain. Guessing that the Wall contract will become an albatross sooner rather than later.

I see this team being on the road to nowhere.

If the goal is to have a fairly mediocre team that you can count on to make it to the first, possibly second round of the playoffs; I guess Ernie has done sufficiently well to keep us in suspense all season Once Again.

Our Lowered Expectations which I have no idea why they are capitalized by talk to text... Are such that we don't really expect much and that would suffice to be a great year for the Wizards. I consider that The Road to Nowhere, however.

As much as I despise talk-to-text I'm going to leave that as is above.

Suffice to say I think a much more tenable approach would be to make a proactive trade of John Wall plus the contracts of Ian Mahinmi and Markieff Morris... for something that improves the salary cap situation while returning decent value.

The three teams that make the most sense for the Wizards trade with are the Lakers and one other team from the East... either the Knicks or the Orlando Magic. A deal could be expanded to become four ways if another team has a good point guard to trade