Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

Probably this comes down to where you and I think this team is right now & where it can go & how fast it can get there. I don't think we can sell youth & acquire experience & become better faster that way. It's possible that I'm being irrational! But... I do try to look carefully & objectively - & I just can't see it.

I probably wouldn't make that Turner trade in a vacuum. I'd only make it after also making the Simmons trade (and presumably drafting a good guard). With Simmons, a high pick and Turner, not to mention Wall, Bertans and Brown, I think we'd have the foundation for a successful team capable of winning 50.

[gambitx777]

I would be sick because I absolutely hate Ben Simmons .

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[DCZards]

My dream scenario this offseason:

Draft Anthony Edwards
Trade Bryant + Hachimura + Schofield for Myles Turner
Trade Beal for Ben Simmons

New lineup:
PG Wall/Ish
SG Edwards/McRae
SF Bertans/Brown/
PF Simmons/Bertans
C Turner/Wagner

End of bench: Payton/Mathews/2020 2nd/Bonga/Pacesniks

The defense would be great with Simmons and Turner in the frontcourt. The mediocre shooting of Simmons and Wall is offset by our centers having 3-point range and Bertans' crazy floor stretching ability. Every key player except Wall is 24 or younger. We might even be able to shop Ish for assets and put Payton in as backup PG since Simmons and Brown could handle a lot of the ball handling duties when Wall is out.

I dunno Nate. I'd love Simmons for his D but I'm not feeling a team dependent on Wall and Simmons as primary ballhandlers/shooters. Both are mediocre shooters (at best) and, if you trade Ish and make Payton the backup PG, you've got 3 mediocre shooters in your top 4 guards. And judging by his college stats, Edwards is also not a very good outside shooter...as least at this point in his career.

I'm also with PIF as it relates to Bryant vs. Turner. Turner is no doubt a defensive upgrading, especially as a shotblocker, which is something that the Zards definitely need. But is it really worth the increased salary. In addition, Bryant has the potential to be as good a midrange shooter and 3 pt shooter as Turner. I'd prefer to keep Bryant and find a shotblocking/rebounding PF or backup center at a reasonable price. Or even wait and see what Pacesniks looks like in that backup role going forward.

From what I've seen thus far from AP, he clearly knows how to use his height and length to at the very least alter shots or discourage guys from trying to shoot over him...even when he's not blocking the shot. However, AP does need to become a much better rebounder and better finisher at the rim. Getting physically stronger will help him in both of those areas.

[nate33]

I would be sick because I absolutely hate Ben Simmons .

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I don't know why. He plays real hard. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He leads the league in steals and grabs 7.5 boards despite defending guards and playing alongside Embiid, Horford and Harris. He's a great passer.

I think he is on the worst possible team for his offensive talents. He needs to be in a 4-out offense with him as a primary ball handler a la Giannis.

I also think Philly has terrible coaching. I'd really like to see Simmons under the tutelage of our developmental staff. They've already done wonders with shooting of Troy Brown, Mo Wagner, Jordan McRae and Ish Smith. (They may or may not deserve credit for Bertans and Mathews remarkable shooting as well.)

[nate33]

I dunno Nate. I'd love Simmons for his D but I'm not feeling a team dependent on Wall and Simmons as primary ballhandlers/shooters. Both are mediocre shooters (at best) and, if you trade Ish and make Payton the backup PG, you've got 3 mediocre shooters in your top 4 guards. And judging by his college stats, Edwards is also not a very good outside shooter...as least at this point in his career.

I'm also with PIF as it relates to Bryant vs. Turner. Turner is no doubt a defensive upgrading, especially as a shotblocker, which is something that the Zards definitely need. But is it really worth the increased salary. In addition, Bryant has the potential to be as good a midrange shooter and 3 pt shooter as Turner. I'd prefer to keep Bryant and find a shotblocking/rebounding PF or backup center at a reasonable price. Or even wait and see what Pacesniks looks like in that backup role going forward.

From what I've seen thus far from AP, he clearly knows how to use his height and length to at the very least alter shots or discourage guys from trying to shoot over him...even when he's not blocking the shot. However, AP does need to become a much better rebounder and better finisher at the rim. Getting physically stronger will help him in both of those areas.

I think Turner has a good contract at $18M a year with no increases. For an above average starting center, that's great. Also, Turner is actually younger than Pacesniks, so if you are factoring major improvement out of Pacesniks, you can't ignore that Turner can get better too.

Indeed, that's the beauty of my trade. They guys we get back: Simmons and Turner, are both still very young and will get even better going forward.

[payitforward]

You know, the truth is that the only track along which I can get my mind to go is "how to build a championship team." And... that's probably unrealistic on my part -- in the sense that so very many things have to break just right for it to happen.

One reason I seem always to want to go down that road is that I lived 20 years in SF & was a Warriors fan (this is long ago, nate....). When we traded our pick in 2009 instead of grabbing Steph, & the Warriors developed as we have seen (while the Wizards continued down the endless track to nowhere that Ernie favored), that sealed the deal for my mind.

So, for sure, I favor developing Bryant over trading for Turner. Etc. etc. etc.

Even though, sure, it would be fun to win 50 games rather than losing 50 games!!

[payitforward]

I dunno Nate. I'd love Simmons for his D but I'm not feeling a team dependent on Wall and Simmons as primary ballhandlers/shooters. Both are mediocre shooters (at best) and, if you trade Ish and make Payton the backup PG, you've got 3 mediocre shooters in your top 4 guards. And judging by his college stats, Edwards is also not a very good outside shooter...as least at this point in his career.

I'm also with PIF as it relates to Bryant vs. Turner. Turner is no doubt a defensive upgrading, especially as a shotblocker, which is something that the Zards definitely need. But is it really worth the increased salary. In addition, Bryant has the potential to be as good a midrange shooter and 3 pt shooter as Turner. I'd prefer to keep Bryant and find a shotblocking/rebounding PF or backup center at a reasonable price. Or even wait and see what Pacesniks looks like in that backup role going forward.

From what I've seen thus far from AP, he clearly knows how to use his height and length to at the very least alter shots or discourage guys from trying to shoot over him...even when he's not blocking the shot. However, AP does need to become a much better rebounder and better finisher at the rim. Getting physically stronger will help him in both of those areas.

I think Turner has a good contract at $18M a year with no increases. For an above average starting center, that's great. Also, Turner is actually younger than Pacesniks, so if you are factoring major improvement out of Pacesniks, you can't ignore that Turner can get better too.

Indeed, that's the beauty of my trade. They guys we get back: Simmons and Turner, are both still very young and will get even better going forward.

That last point is a very good one. Overall we get younger not older with Simmons/Turner vs. Beal/Bryant.

Pasecniks isn't going to get any more athletic or gifted; he's got a job on an NBA team until someone better comes along.

[DCZards]

I would be sick because I absolutely hate Ben Simmons .

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I don't know why. He plays real hard. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He leads the league in steals and grabs 7.5 boards despite defending guards and playing alongside Embiid, Horford and Harris. He's a great passer.

I think he is on the worst possible team for his offensive talents. He needs to be in a 4-out offense with him as a primary ball handler a la Giannis.

I also think Philly has terrible coaching. I'd really like to see Simmons under the tutelage of our developmental staff. They've already done wonders with shooting of Troy Brown, Mo Wagner, Jordan McRae and Ish Smith. (They may or may not deserve credit for Bertans and Mathews remarkable shooting as well.)

So if Simmons is your primary ballhandler how does that work with him sharing the court with Wall? I'm assume that Simmons can become a better shooter...but I'm not convinced that he'll ever be a good shooter regardless of who is tutoring or coaching him.

[nate33]

I would be sick because I absolutely hate Ben Simmons .

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I don't know why. He plays real hard. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He leads the league in steals and grabs 7.5 boards despite defending guards and playing alongside Embiid, Horford and Harris. He's a great passer.

I think he is on the worst possible team for his offensive talents. He needs to be in a 4-out offense with him as a primary ball handler a la Giannis.

I also think Philly has terrible coaching. I'd really like to see Simmons under the tutelage of our developmental staff. They've already done wonders with shooting of Troy Brown, Mo Wagner, Jordan McRae and Ish Smith. (They may or may not deserve credit for Bertans and Mathews remarkable shooting as well.)

So if Simmons is your primary ballhandler how does that work with him sharing the court with Wall? I'm assume that Simmons can become a better shooter...but I'm not convinced that he'll ever be a good shooter regardless of who is tutoring or coaching him.

I'm counting on Wall being a better catch-and-shoot guy after 12 months of mostly only being able to work on shooting. I'd also attempt to stagger them as much as possible. And, finally, I'm not worried about building around Wall. Wall will be 30 next year. He'll have to try and modify his game to fit alongside Simmons, Edwards and Turner. If not, the core of Simmons, Edwards, Turner and Brown will still be just 26 years old (or younger) when Wall comes off his contract.

[payitforward]

...hadn't thought of it that way, nate. Hmm....

We aren't all that likely to wind up w/ Edwards of course!

edit: in fact, you should be calling for IT to play 35 minutes a game!

[nate33]

...hadn't thought of it that way, nate. Hmm....

We aren't all that likely to wind up w/ Edwards of course!

edit: in fact, you should be calling for IT to play 35 minutes a game!

Shhhh! My plan sounds a lot better with Edwards.

[gambitx777]

I just don't think he has that dog in him. It's not that he can't shoot. He won't shoot. There is a difference. Sure he's a good defender and a great passer but if he does have that fight in him to score yes limited. I would rather build around new guys that go after a 29 mill man who refuses to take a shot .

I would be sick because I absolutely hate Ben Simmons .

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I don't know why. He plays real hard. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He leads the league in steals and grabs 7.5 boards despite defending guards and playing alongside Embiid, Horford and Harris. He's a great passer.

I think he is on the worst possible team for his offensive talents. He needs to be in a 4-out offense with him as a primary ball handler a la Giannis.

I also think Philly has terrible coaching. I'd really like to see Simmons under the tutelage of our developmental staff. They've already done wonders with shooting of Troy Brown, Mo Wagner, Jordan McRae and Ish Smith. (They may or may not deserve credit for Bertans and Mathews remarkable shooting as well.)

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[Illmatic12]

FYI - Anthony Edwards is averaging 19ppg/3apg on 51.5 TS% through 15 college games. He’s led the Georgia Bulldogs to 9th place ..in the SEC


I wouldn’t base any rebuilding master plan around hitting a homerun in this draft class. None of these prospects look to be special franchise-changing talents.

[DCZards]

Before trading Beal for Simmons I’d much rather see what we have next season with the Wall-Beal duo teamed with this new cast of teammates.

However, I’d also be looking to pick up a good defensive PF or Center either thru the draft or free agency.

[gambitx777]

I think we can all agree that the team.we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

Before trading Beal for Simmons I’d much rather see what we have next season with the Wall-Beal duo teamed with this new cast of teammates.

However, I’d also be looking to pick up a good defensive PF or Center either thru the draft or free agency.

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[gambitx777]

Ian and IT to Dallas for Courtney Lee and the conditional GSW/Huston second ( most favorable gets sent.) That GSW seconds going to be high. And that would give up two seconds to either use on draft and stashes or trade up. Dallas needs another solid center and with JJ hurt again IT fills minutes. It's a decent trade for every one and we just cut Lee and open up some spots to play with if we feel like locking in Williams and Mathews .

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[youngWizzy]

Ian and IT to Dallas for Courtney Lee and the conditional GSW/Huston second ( most favorable gets sent.) That GSW seconds going to be high. And that would give up two seconds to either use on draft and stashes or trade up. Dallas needs another solid center and with JJ hurt again IT fills minutes. It's a decent trade for every one and we just cut Lee and open up some spots to play with if we feel like locking in Williams and Mathews .

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I don't think anybody wants IT. He's just horrible.

[gambitx777]

Found that out on the general trade board

Ian and cash for Lee and the least favorable 2020 second the Mavs own. Would be a better trade then the wizards can cut Lee and IT and it ends up about the same.

Ian and IT to Dallas for Courtney Lee and the conditional GSW/Huston second ( most favorable gets sent.) That GSW seconds going to be high. And that would give up two seconds to either use on draft and stashes or trade up. Dallas needs another solid center and with JJ hurt again IT fills minutes. It's a decent trade for every one and we just cut Lee and open up some spots to play with if we feel like locking in Williams and Mathews .

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I don't think anybody wants IT. He's just horrible.

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[gtn130]

Ben Simmons has his warts, but he's an incredible player who is in a situation that doesn't play to his strengths at all. Surround him with shooters and he's Giannis Lite

[payitforward]

I think we can all agree that the team we are going to have next year has worlds more potential than most of the teams wall and beal have had.

"Potential" to do what? When?

If what you mean is that the current roster, plus Wall, would be likely to make noise in the weak Eastern Conference, I'd have to disagree.

Of course, we'll also have 2 rookies, & we'll have Wall back. But, at this point each of those roster slots is an unknown production-wise.

What I do think is true is that it's more fun to contemplate the Wizards future now than it has been for many, many years.