2020 Draft

[payitforward]

...Maxey and Vassell are my fallback choices if no one falls and we dont trade back.

Is Vassell a 2 or a 3?

[jivelikenice]

Tyrese Haliburton was a much better player this year than Tyrese Maxey. I don't see all that much to like about Maxey.

Haliburton was also a much better player than Donovan Mitchell was either year in college. OTOH, Then again... I'm very much in the minority on Donovan Mitchell -- I don't think he's an outstanding NBA player, though, yes, he is is a high-scoring NBA player.

I find it hard to believe that Haliburton won't be a good NBA player (i.e. he has a high floor). But, to me at least, he also looks to have a pretty high ceiling as well. He does everything well, & he has great size.

Now... I still want to trade back. But Maxey wouldn't be on my target list. OTOH, if we didn't trade back but instead we got Haliburton, I'd feel like we got a guy who is likely to be quite good.

I haven’t understood the Maxey hype all season. His on ball defense is very good - undeniably. Outside of that he’s an undersized two guard who shot poorly, is more uber athletic and quick than a pure ball handler, and has shown no ability to be a lead guard and run an offense. I saw nothing resembling a point guard so he’s a 6’2 two guard...

[pcbothwel]

...Maxey and Vassell are my fallback choices if no one falls and we dont trade back.

Is Vassell a 2 or a 3?

Vassell is a 2. I love his defensive instincts and think he is a far better weapon offensively than he has shown so far. He can come of pin downs and set his feet quick to shoot. i like his vision and overall awareness.

Player A - Sophomore - 19.8 y/o at Draft
Per36: Pts / Rbd / Ast / Blk / Stl
16 / 6.3 / 2 / 1.2 / 1.8

2pt%/ 3pt%/ FT% (TS)
49% / 42% / 74% (59% TS)

ORTG/ DRTG/ OBPM/ DBPM/ BPM
127/ 93.5/ 6.1/ 4.6/ 10.8


Player B - Sophomore - 20.5 y/o at Draft
Per36: Pts / Rbd / Ast / Blk / Stl
16 / 7.5/ 2.8/ 1/ 1.9

2pt%/ 3pt%/ FT% (TS)
48% / 42% / 77% (59% TS)

ORTG/ DRTG/ OBPM/ DBPM/ BPM
122/ 85/ 7.2/ 6.1/ 13.3

Spoiler:

Player A - Vassell

Player B - Otto Porter

i think Vassell wont be quite the team defender Otto was, but i think offensively he has a little more creativity-upside

[payitforward]

Actually, OP's TS% was .05 higher than Vassell's -- a very minor point! He also scored .5 more points per 36 minutes -- again minor.

OP also had 1.2 more boards than DV -- once again that's a small difference. Again, a small advantage to OP on the combo of assists/blocks/steals.

These are all small difference -- but... they are all in Otto's favor over Vassell. Plus, Vassell also fouled more often. He made up difference by turning the ball over rarely, but not enough...

Overall, in other words, Otto separates himself from Vassell in raw numbers. But... in general, front court players amass better overall stats than guards. Even 3s over 2s. But, in college, I believe Otto spent as much time at the 4 as at the 3.

The more revealing comparison might be Vassell against Bradley Beal. Now... Brad came out after 1 year, so it's unfair! But, Beal as a Freshman vs. Vassell as a sophomore, the numbers are very close. In fact, Vassell's numbers are slightly better because he just never turns the ball over! (Again... that's him as a sophomore vs. brad as a freshman)

Vassell took 13.6 shots per 40 minutes this year. That's a reasonably high number in the college game. But, he only turned the ball over 1.1 times in 40 minutes. Terrific. I'm starting to like him!

[Dat2U]

Who is the most skilled player in the draft? That's who I want.

I still think LaMelo is the best player in the draft at the moment. I would draft him and put him at SF alongside Wall & Beal for now. Find a coach that can manage egos (definitely not Brooks).

I know Ball has shot issues but all the top prospects do. 29% from 3 seems to be the magic number smh.

I would not 'waste' a 1st round pick on a C. Why? Availability. Too many rim runners, too many low skilled rebounders can be had for cheap. Unless you think your getting an-all star caliber talent, pass on drafting a C in this era.

[Ruzious]

Who is the most skilled player in the draft? That's who I want.

I still think LaMelo is the best player in the draft at the moment. I would draft him and put him at SF alongside Wall & Beal for now. Find a coach that can manage egos (definitely not Brooks).

I know Ball has shot issues but all the top prospects do. 29% from 3 seems to be the magic number smh.

I would not 'waste' a 1st round pick on a C. Why? Availability. Too many rim runners, too many low skilled rebounders can be had for cheap. Unless you think your getting an-all star caliber talent, pass on drafting a C in this era.

I'm the opposite on Ball - can't shoot, doesn't defend, lacks strength, an ordinary athlete, very poor shot selection, hasn't shown he can play off the ball. I'd say Haliburton is a more skilled player - and he does shoot well and does defend.

[payitforward]

Who is the most skilled player in the draft? That's who I want.

I still think LaMelo is the best player in the draft at the moment. I would draft him ....

I'm the opposite on Ball - can't shoot, doesn't defend, lacks strength, an ordinary athlete, very poor shot selection, hasn't shown he can play off the ball....

In any case, we are not likely to see Ball on the board when we pick. But, I don't think there's anything that takes away from the simple rule: take the best player available. No matter what position.

Moreover, keep in mind that the single biggest blind spot GMs have? Over-estimating the value of a high pick. I've only demonstrated -- with actual facts -- about a zillion times that picking in the #9 spot (in any spot below #3 for that matter) doesn't give you any meaningful advantage over picking in, say, the #16 spot. Or the #22 spot.

That's why it's almost always a good move to trade down from the top 10 to get extra picks. Which is what we should do this year. Just as it is what we should have done last year.

[payitforward]

....I would not 'waste' a 1st round pick on a C. Why? Availability. Too many rim runners, too many low skilled rebounders can be had for cheap. Unless you think your getting an-all star caliber talent, pass on drafting a C in this era.

Who are these "rim runners ...low skilled rebounders (who) can be had for cheap," btw?

Can we use 14 rebounds per 40 minutes as the level that will get all those guys? Does that suffice to call a player a big-time rebounder?

To get a reliable sample size, I'll look at guys who played at least 550 minutes: there were 15 guys at that level this season. 6 of them could qualify as "cheap" in some sense: DeAndre Jordan (if $10m is "cheap"), Enes Kanter, Ivica Zubac, Dwight Howard, Jarrett Allen & Deandre Ayton.

Of course, guys like Allen & Ayton are cheap on rookie contracts, but they don't really count. Jordan is signed for $40m. We would never want Kanter or Howard. That leaves Ivica Zubac. I don't think he's easily available, do you? He was just signed for 4 years & provides really good value.

[Dat2U]

Who is the most skilled player in the draft? That's who I want.

I still think LaMelo is the best player in the draft at the moment. I would draft him and put him at SF alongside Wall & Beal for now. Find a coach that can manage egos (definitely not Brooks).

I know Ball has shot issues but all the top prospects do. 29% from 3 seems to be the magic number smh.

I would not 'waste' a 1st round pick on a C. Why? Availability. Too many rim runners, too many low skilled rebounders can be had for cheap. Unless you think your getting an-all star caliber talent, pass on drafting a C in this era.

I'm the opposite on Ball - can't shoot, doesn't defend, lacks strength, an ordinary athlete, very poor shot selection, hasn't shown he can play off the ball. I'd say Haliburton is a more skilled player - and he does shoot well and does defend.

LaMelo is a legit 6-8 with long arms and a ton of skill. He doesn't need to be an elite athlete. The updated scouting report from Australia shows his growth as a defender and improvement in shot selection. I think he's a bigger, more naturally gifted version of his brother who is a solid player in his own right.

I like Haliburton too. Alot, if we don't move up, I'd love if he's the pick.

[payitforward]

Haliburton is an exceptionally productive, efficient player. I can't see a reason why he doesn't become an outstanding NBA player.

I think he could easily wind up the best guard out of this draft. Although I usually want to trade down, if he's there I would have a hard time passing on a guy who put up the kind of numbers he did.

[Jamaaliver]

Why Killian Hayes Is the 2020 NBA Draft’s Top Prospect



One prospect checks more boxes than all others. Who can shoot? Who can generate space off the dribble? Who has a feel for the game? Who makes his teammates better? Who can defend? Who conjures memories of All-Stars? It’s the best prospect in the 2020 NBA draft: Killian Hayes.

In a league where perimeter shooting, playmaking, and defensive versatility are at a premium, Hayes is my top-ranked prospect in this year’s class. While playing last season in Germany for Ratiopharm Ulm, Hayes showed skill beyond his years, taking stepbacks, side steps, and fearless pull-up jumpers. Most NBA players, let alone teenagers, don’t possess the type of footwork required to attempt such complex moves, but Hayes is ahead of the curve.

The 6-foot-5 guard has a diverse repertoire, too. While averaging 11.6 points and 5.3 assists last season, Hayes did most of his damage in the paint, displaying a soft touch on floaters, runners, and layups. With long arms and a strong, 215-pound frame, Hayes has an ideal build to penetrate the defense and score through contact.

Playmaking might actually be Hayes’s best strength right now, though. There’s a lot to like about Hayes, with his playmaking, scoring, and defensive ability at such a young age. But he’s not a no-brainer superstar prospect like Luka Doncic or Zion Williamson in recent years.

The Ringer

[payitforward]

Isn't Hayes likely to be gone when #9 or 10 comes around?

[Ruzious]

Isn't Hayes likely to be gone when #9 or 10 comes around?

Probably yes, but it wouldn't shock me if he slides. One reason is that he's much better shooting off the dribble and is not - at this point - a good catch and shoot guy - so teams are not looking for him as a catch and shoot guy. Meanwhile, he's not a pure PG - has a high to rate and looks more to score than pass.

[Ruzious]

Why Killian Hayes Is the 2020 NBA Draft’s Top Prospect



One prospect checks more boxes than all others. Who can shoot? Who can generate space off the dribble? Who has a feel for the game? Who makes his teammates better? Who can defend? Who conjures memories of All-Stars? It’s the best prospect in the 2020 NBA draft: Killian Hayes.

In a league where perimeter shooting, playmaking, and defensive versatility are at a premium, Hayes is my top-ranked prospect in this year’s class. While playing last season in Germany for Ratiopharm Ulm, Hayes showed skill beyond his years, taking stepbacks, side steps, and fearless pull-up jumpers. Most NBA players, let alone teenagers, don’t possess the type of footwork required to attempt such complex moves, but Hayes is ahead of the curve.

The 6-foot-5 guard has a diverse repertoire, too. While averaging 11.6 points and 5.3 assists last season, Hayes did most of his damage in the paint, displaying a soft touch on floaters, runners, and layups. With long arms and a strong, 215-pound frame, Hayes has an ideal build to penetrate the defense and score through contact.

Playmaking might actually be Hayes’s best strength right now, though. There’s a lot to like about Hayes, with his playmaking, scoring, and defensive ability at such a young age. But he’s not a no-brainer superstar prospect like Luka Doncic or Zion Williamson in recent years.

The Ringer

Wow, they say he's 215 lbs - at 18 years old. I guarantee that's more than Ball weighs, and he's 6'8. I'd really like to see what Hayes measures in at. He has had a problem with to's, but what do you expect from an 18 year old pg?

[Jamaaliver]

...Maxey and Vassell are my fallback choices if no one falls and we dont trade back.

Is Vassell a 2 or a 3?

Weighing in at less than 200 lbs as a sophomore, he is strictly a guard at this point.

Devin Vassell Scouting Report

Devin Vassell --Florida State
Position: Wing
Height: 6’7”
Weight: 194 pounds
DOB: 8/23/20000

Per Game Stats:




Devin Vassell will be an impact defender from Day 1 who can pick pockets, block shots and guard multiple positions on the perimeter.

Strengths

Spoiler:

Spot-up Shooting: The most used shot in Vassell’s repertoire, he’s already very good in this category, as he knocked down 40.3% of all spot-up opportunities last year according to Synergy. He’s particularly capable in the corners—a place he’ll likely spend a lot of time throughout his NBA career (especially early on).

On-ball Defense: Vassell is a demon defensively, especially when he’s defending the ball. He’s long (6’10” wingspan), moves very well laterally and is relentless; in other words—a ball-handler’s worst nightmare. He has no issue picking point guards up full court and pestering them the entire length of the floor. He also has fluid hips, allowing him to drop them in his slides without conceding too much ground on drives. He’s an immediate contributor in this category.

Weaknesses

Spoiler:

Shot Creation: Vassell showed very little ability to create shots in college and it’s unclear if he’ll ever be able to develop these skills in the NBA. He has below-average ball-handling skills for his position and generally isn’t comfortable trying to dribble with any sort of pressure. He did show a propensity for a one-dribble pull-up at Florida State, but I’m unsure he’ll be able to create the separation needed to even get that up on a regular basis. He also struggles to find open teammates, especially in the pick-and-roll.

Strength: Part of the reason he struggles to create his own shot is due to his lack of strength. Defenders can easily bump him off his drives and legally push him away from the rim. He can also get bodied by bigger players in the post, something that may affect his positional versatility in the future. Fortunately, he’s been able to use his length to make up for it, but he’ll come up against stronger and longer men in the NBA.

Conclusion

Spoiler:

He’s an elite defensive talent with a signature offensive skill that just happens to be in one of the most efficient scoring zones.

With the potential to become one of the best three-and-D players, it’s Vassell’s defense that will get him on the court immediately. He’ll be able to guard point guards, combo guards, wings and even some forwards. He’s that good.

For starters, he’s great at moving his feet laterally and can slide with almost anyone. He doesn’t just slide with ball-handlers either, as he badgers them on every dribble; forcing them to work their ass off just to initiate the offense. When he isn’t quick enough to stick with someone on the perimeter, his 6’10” wingspan makes up for it. The best part is it’s apparent he loves to play the harasser.

He’s also great off the ball where he jumps passing lanes. He also helps teammates before they even know what’s going on; often rotating to an open roller to shut that s**t down. He’s also adept at coming out of nowhere to swat a shot into the first row—his motor never stops.

He’ll have the most work to do on the offensive end of the court where he might never turn into anything more than a spot-up shooter. And that’s okay considering he knocked down over 40 percent of his threes in both of his seasons at Florida State. He mostly floats on the perimeter, waiting for the ball to find him before knocking down his shot. If he ever develops an off the bounce game, it would take him to the next level.

Forbes

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[payitforward]

This is really interesting -- esp. b/c it puts players in quite a different order than nbadraftroom. A different perspective.

It'd be really interesting to look at the espn insider big board. Anybody?

[payitforward]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm starting to really like this draft.... A lot of outstanding prospects it seems to me -- & at a variety of positions.

Am I wrong?

[payitforward]

Updated mock today at http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/2020-nba-mock-draft.html.

[Dat2U]

...Maxey and Vassell are my fallback choices if no one falls and we dont trade back.

Is Vassell a 2 or a 3?

Weighing in at less than 200 lbs as a sophomore, he is strictly a guard at this point.

Devin Vassell Scouting Report

Devin Vassell --Florida State
Position: Wing
Height: 6’7”
Weight: 194 pounds
DOB: 8/23/20000

Per Game Stats:




Devin Vassell will be an impact defender from Day 1 who can pick pockets, block shots and guard multiple positions on the perimeter.

Strengths

Spoiler:

Spot-up Shooting: The most used shot in Vassell’s repertoire, he’s already very good in this category, as he knocked down 40.3% of all spot-up opportunities last year according to Synergy. He’s particularly capable in the corners—a place he’ll likely spend a lot of time throughout his NBA career (especially early on).

On-ball Defense: Vassell is a demon defensively, especially when he’s defending the ball. He’s long (6’10” wingspan), moves very well laterally and is relentless; in other words—a ball-handler’s worst nightmare. He has no issue picking point guards up full court and pestering them the entire length of the floor. He also has fluid hips, allowing him to drop them in his slides without conceding too much ground on drives. He’s an immediate contributor in this category.

Weaknesses

Spoiler:

Shot Creation: Vassell showed very little ability to create shots in college and it’s unclear if he’ll ever be able to develop these skills in the NBA. He has below-average ball-handling skills for his position and generally isn’t comfortable trying to dribble with any sort of pressure. He did show a propensity for a one-dribble pull-up at Florida State, but I’m unsure he’ll be able to create the separation needed to even get that up on a regular basis. He also struggles to find open teammates, especially in the pick-and-roll.

Strength: Part of the reason he struggles to create his own shot is due to his lack of strength. Defenders can easily bump him off his drives and legally push him away from the rim. He can also get bodied by bigger players in the post, something that may affect his positional versatility in the future. Fortunately, he’s been able to use his length to make up for it, but he’ll come up against stronger and longer men in the NBA.

Conclusion

Spoiler:

He’s an elite defensive talent with a signature offensive skill that just happens to be in one of the most efficient scoring zones.

With the potential to become one of the best three-and-D players, it’s Vassell’s defense that will get him on the court immediately. He’ll be able to guard point guards, combo guards, wings and even some forwards. He’s that good.

For starters, he’s great at moving his feet laterally and can slide with almost anyone. He doesn’t just slide with ball-handlers either, as he badgers them on every dribble; forcing them to work their ass off just to initiate the offense. When he isn’t quick enough to stick with someone on the perimeter, his 6’10” wingspan makes up for it. The best part is it’s apparent he loves to play the harasser.

He’s also great off the ball where he jumps passing lanes. He also helps teammates before they even know what’s going on; often rotating to an open roller to shut that s**t down. He’s also adept at coming out of nowhere to swat a shot into the first row—his motor never stops.

He’ll have the most work to do on the offensive end of the court where he might never turn into anything more than a spot-up shooter. And that’s okay considering he knocked down over 40 percent of his threes in both of his seasons at Florida State. He mostly floats on the perimeter, waiting for the ball to find him before knocking down his shot. If he ever develops an off the bounce game, it would take him to the next level.

Forbes

I honestly haven't scouted Vassell thoroughly yet but it's a major red flag if a perimeter player cannot create a shot for himself or others. I can't think of one recently successful perimeter player who had such limited skill. I dinged Ben McLemore years back for the same thing. Because the length of NBA defenders can close out on open looks. What happens when Vassell has to put it on the floor?