Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[gambitx777]

Not if we offer Beal for Simmons and two 1sts.

Which I'll still hold till the day I day as an awful trade and won't end well for us at all.

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I think it ends better than signing Beal to a supermax and locking us into mediocrity for 4 more years.

If nothing else, Simmons is a much more tradeable asset.

I agree with you that Beal on a super max is a franchise killer level contract. But, I don't want Simmons. I just feel that a three way for a team more willing to dump assets for Simmons is a better move.


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[payitforward]

If Philly is pairing Beal and Embid - I don't think things like giving up Curry and the luxury tax should get in the way.

?? Please explain what you mean.

If the Sixers are dealing Simmons and assets - they are getting(or believe they are) a superstar. I think the reason they Sixers didn't go for a reasonable package around McCollum is they are targeting someone to pair with Embid to chase championships.

Ok, thanks.... I assume you think DM views Beal as "a superstar."

...While big spending doesn't lead to championships, I can't think of many recent contenders who pinched pennies.

For sure on both counts! But, the first is far more important. It's not how much but how you spend that moves you towards a title, & I'm hard pressed to see how exchanging Curry (plus Simmons who isn't being used) for Brad propels them towards a title. & giving up 2 R1 picks means you forgo a couple of shots at a positive result that really can help.

[payitforward]

I agree... that Beal on a super max is a franchise killer level contract. But, I don't want Simmons. I just feel that a three way for a team more willing to dump assets for Simmons is a better move.

Yes, your point is clear. You don't think Simmons is an extremely good player. Or maybe it's that you don't think he will remain extremely good. Or develop further.

Your reasons for thinking as you do aren't particularly compelling -- at least not to me (or, presumably, to others who would be happy to acquire Ben). Nor, of course, did Philly come into the season wanting to trade Simmons. He's pretty much forcing them to.

The reasons to want him, OTOH, are straightforward: in his first 4 seasons, Ben Simmons has been one of the best PGs in the league, if not the absolute best, & one of the top handful of players in the league overall.

[gambitx777]

I agree... that Beal on a super max is a franchise killer level contract. But, I don't want Simmons. I just feel that a three way for a team more willing to dump assets for Simmons is a better move.

Yes, your point is clear. You don't think Simmons is an extremely good player. Or maybe it's that you don't think he will remain extremely good. Or develop further.

Your reasons for thinking as you do aren't particularly compelling -- at least not to me (or, presumably, to others who would be happy to acquire Ben). Nor, of course, did Philly come into the season wanting to trade Simmons. He's pretty much forcing them to.

The reasons to want him, OTOH, are straightforward: in his first 4 seasons, Ben Simmons has been one of the best PGs in the league, if not the absolute best, & one of the top handful of players in the league overall.

Look if Simmons comes here, and Ted rolls put the your my guys here's the world, the stars and the moon above treatment he tends to do and Simmons is happy and motivated and he gets over his issues and becomes a true star. I'll eat crow and say I was wrong but as much talent as he has I don't think his heart is really in this to the point I don't think he's worth the investment. Other teams do and that's great. I don't.

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[nate33]

Which I'll still hold till the day I day as an awful trade and won't end well for us at all.

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I think it ends better than signing Beal to a supermax and locking us into mediocrity for 4 more years.

If nothing else, Simmons is a much more tradeable asset.

here's the thing - mediocrity isn't even assured.

Bradley Beal has never made the playoffs as the best player on the team.

He has a dramatically losing record in seasons where he is the highest VORP on the team. His profile is less "mediocrity with him as your best player" and more "late lottery with him as your best player".

Bradley Beal had 2 seasons of really high volume scoring on good efficiency, but he's not good at anything else. While "guy who can score 30 a game" is a good problem to have to an extent, he's worse than previous Wizards star guards at creating for others and on defense, let alone compared to other NBA 2s.

I think this is a little harsh. The team around Beal the last 2 seasons has been pretty bad - way worse than the teams put around Arenas or John Wall.

[nate33]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

I’d definitely want Curry or Maxey if we are trading Brad to Philadelphia.

I don't think Curry or Maxey are a high priority. Curry is 31 and I think Maxey is a little overrated. He's a nice 3rd guard.

I definitely wouldn't insist on Curry since he would still be a key component for their title run. I'd take Maxey in lieu of one of their picks, I suppose. But I'm okay just taking picks and trying to leave Philly with their best win-now lineup possible.

[dckingsfan]

...Or develop further...

The reasons to want him, OTOH, are straightforward: in his first 4 seasons, Ben Simmons has been one of the best PGs in the league, if not the absolute best, & one of the top handful of players in the league overall.

...but as much talent as he has I don't think his heart is really in this to the point I don't think he's worth the investment.

I think the two of you have really encapsulated how folks are feeling about Simmons.

On the one hand - there is no denying the talent.

On the other hand, there is no denying that there is something "off" (anecdotally - we aren't going to get his mental health records to truly understand where he is at).

[DCZards]

I agree... that Beal on a super max is a franchise killer level contract. But, I don't want Simmons. I just feel that a three way for a team more willing to dump assets for Simmons is a better move.

Yes, your point is clear. You don't think Simmons is an extremely good player. Or maybe it's that you don't think he will remain extremely good. Or develop further.

Your reasons for thinking as you do aren't particularly compelling -- at least not to me (or, presumably, to others who would be happy to acquire Ben). Nor, of course, did Philly come into the season wanting to trade Simmons. He's pretty much forcing them to.

The reasons to want him, OTOH, are straightforward: in his first 4 seasons, Ben Simmons has been one of the best PGs in the league, if not the absolute best, & one of the top handful of players in the league overall.

PIF, I agree with you regarding Ben’s immense talent. He’d be one of the top one or two players on pretty much any NBA team.

But gambitx has been pretty consistent in saying that he’s reluctant to trade for Simmons for reasons that go beyond his ability to play basketball.

I don’t agree with all of gambitx’s opinion of Simmons but I do believe there is a tremendous risk in making a player who reportedly doesn’t put in the work to improve his deeply flawed game and who quits on his team because the coach and teammates hurt his feelings one of the cornerstones of your franchise.

[nate33]

I do believe there is a tremendous risk in making a player who reportedly doesn’t put in the work to improve his deeply flawed game and who quits on his team because the coach and teammates hurt his feelings one of the cornerstones of your franchise.

One thing that reassures me a bit is that Simmons will know he absolutely cannot do something like this again or he will never get another big contract. I think he'll be highly motivated to redeem himself.

Also, there's a long list of really talented young guys who don't seem to "get it" at first, but eventually figure things out in their mid-20's and live up to their talent. Guys like Rasheed Wallace, Zach Randolph and Andrew Wiggins come to mind. Kelly Oubre could be another. Teams that acquired them cheaply at the right time really prospered.

[gambitx777]

I think I'd literally chug a bottle of wine and call off work if we make a simple swap for Simmons. But, if we put the screws to Philly and get some assets back... I could live with the hang over.

I would really play hard ball though.

Beal and bertans
For
Simmons, green, bassey, Springer and 2 firsts either 22or23 and 2027and 2 seconds.

Yes that's a lot but man Beal puts them over the edge. Bertans when he's on does help that team off the bench, even as bad as his contract is. At this point not loosing a year of contention in embids prime is more important that anything.

Green is filler and can be waived, We get bertans off the books, 2 young players and some picks back and we take a flyer on Ben Simmons.... That's probably the only deal I could stand with Simmons coming back to us.

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[payitforward]

...Bradley Beal ... His profile is less "mediocrity with him as your best player" and more "late lottery with him as your best player".

Bradley Beal had 2 seasons of really high volume scoring on good efficiency, but he's not good at anything else. While "guy who can score 30 a game" is a good problem to have to an extent, he's worse than previous Wizards star guards at creating for others and on defense, let alone compared to other NBA 2s.

I think this is a little harsh. The team around Beal the last 2 seasons has been pretty bad - way worse than the teams put around Arenas or John Wall.

First off "mediocrity" is precisely the same as "late lottery."

I also don't know why you'd criticize Brad's "creating for others" when he's 2d on the team in assists. He also seems to be giving solid effort on defense this year.

The fact is that who Brad is, how good he is, what kind of player he is... none of these factors have much to do with this team's level of play overall. Ernie left the Wizards a complete mess. People don't seem to like the term, but all the same we've been "rebuilding" for the last two seasons. Essentially from scratch: we've got exactly 2 players left from the end of the '18-19 season. One of them is Brad; the other (Bryant) is injured & hasn't played for almost 1.5 seasons.

All the same, we are one hell of a lot better than we were at the end of Ernie's last season -- & we are better set up to improve in the future as well.

[payitforward]

There's one big problem with Beal for Simmons -- I don't see how Philly could acquire Beal without dealing Seth Curry.

Curry leads the team in minutes (with Maxey only a few minutes behind him) & has been extremely productive. Of course, he would be eminently tradable, as he's on a bargain contract at $8m, but that's a reason not to trade him given how good he's been.

As well, Philly might find it hard to retain Beal. They're at $148.5m next year for 13 guys.

I’d definitely want Curry or Maxey if we are trading Brad to Philadelphia.

I don't think Curry or Maxey are a high priority. Curry is 31 and I think Maxey is a little overrated. He's a nice 3rd guard.

I definitely wouldn't insist on Curry since he would still be a key component for their title run. I'd take Maxey in lieu of one of their picks, I suppose. But I'm okay just taking picks and trying to leave Philly with their best win-now lineup possible.

I didn't mean to suggest that either Curry or Maxey would be a high priority for us in this trade but, rather, that I didn't -- still don't -- see how Philly can move to acquire Beal without sending Curry out -- either to us or to another team involved in this move.

[FAH1223]

I’d definitely want Curry or Maxey if we are trading Brad to Philadelphia.

I don't think Curry or Maxey are a high priority. Curry is 31 and I think Maxey is a little overrated. He's a nice 3rd guard.

I definitely wouldn't insist on Curry since he would still be a key component for their title run. I'd take Maxey in lieu of one of their picks, I suppose. But I'm okay just taking picks and trying to leave Philly with their best win-now lineup possible.

I didn't mean to suggest that either Curry or Maxey would be a high priority for us in this trade but, rather, that I didn't -- still don't -- see how Philly can move to acquire Beal without sending Curry out -- either to us or to another team involved in this move.

My point is if you’re getting Simmons you need all the shooting you can get.

Shoot if it’s not Curry, give me Korkmaz. We are so starved for shooting.

[Benjammin]

While I see the appeal of Simmons, I don't think we have a strong enough organization to take that chance so I would be in favor of a three team deal. Unless Brad asks for a trade I doubt Uncle Ted would sign off on a deal so it's likely a moot point.

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[deneem4]

Il trade Bertans, rui and dinwiddie for wall

[dckingsfan]

Il trade Bertans, rui and dinwiddie for wall

Explain your thinking here? Is it because Wall's contract expires after next year?

Given what Houston has (lots of PFs and Cs) are you thinking that they would value Rui as a SF and Dinwiddie would be fine as the first guard off the bench (something Wall has refused to do)?

[Ruzious]

I don't think Curry or Maxey are a high priority. Curry is 31 and I think Maxey is a little overrated. He's a nice 3rd guard.

I definitely wouldn't insist on Curry since he would still be a key component for their title run. I'd take Maxey in lieu of one of their picks, I suppose. But I'm okay just taking picks and trying to leave Philly with their best win-now lineup possible.

I didn't mean to suggest that either Curry or Maxey would be a high priority for us in this trade but, rather, that I didn't -- still don't -- see how Philly can move to acquire Beal without sending Curry out -- either to us or to another team involved in this move.

My point is if you’re getting Simmons you need all the shooting you can get.

Shoot if it’s not Curry, give me Korkmaz. We are so starved for shooting.

Another reason to have Philly add the rights to Filip Petrusev (a shooter/scorer) in the deal - which I hope happens.

[nate33]

Il trade Bertans, rui and dinwiddie for wall

Explain your thinking here? Is it because Wall's contract expires after next year?

Given what Houston has (lots of PFs and Cs) are you thinking that they would value Rui as a SF and Dinwiddie would be fine as the first guard off the bench (something Wall has refused to do)?

Seems like a horrible idea to me.

I just don't see the urgency to dump Bertans at such a price. Yeah, he is a negative value contract, but it's not THAT bad. And trying to move him now is basically selling at his all time low point.

[deneem4]

Il trade Bertans, rui and dinwiddie for wall

Explain your thinking here? Is it because Wall's contract expires after next year?

Given what Houston has (lots of PFs and Cs) are you thinking that they would value Rui as a SF and Dinwiddie would be fine as the first guard off the bench (something Wall has refused to do)?

Seems like a horrible idea to me.

I just don't see the urgency to dump Bertans at such a price. Yeah, he is a negative value contract, but it's not THAT bad. And trying to move him now is basically selling at his all time low point.

Bertans is filler
Wall is healthy going into his next contract year,
Wish there was a way to add wood into this trade

[nate33]

Wall is healthy

This post won't age well.