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Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

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IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?

1) Yes, I believe it is time for EG to go now.
29
69%
2) Ted should let him go at the end of the season.
9
21%
3) No, Ted needs to give him more time..(DESPITE THE FACT ERNIE HAS BEEN GM SINCE 2003)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#781 » by rockymac52 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:10 pm

colts18 wrote:
closg00 wrote:Good Idea PIF, the pickin's are truly slim when you toss-out the Wall & Beal picks, I only could come-up with a top-7 (In no particular order)

1. Trading Kwame Brown for Caron Butler
2. Andray Blatche @ #49
3. Signed Gilbert Arenas as a free agent
4. Naming Tom Thibodeau assistant coach.
5. Brendan Haywood contract extension (good value).
6. Traded center Jahidi White to the Phoenix Suns for guard Brevin Knight.
7. Letting Larry Hughes walk.

Why wasn't Thibodeau ever considered for the coaching job here?


If I recall correctly, he was only an assistant here for about a week, and then left because he did not agree with the philosophy of EJ. Not positive on the accuracy of that, but I recall something along those lines. Very unfortunate, especially in retrospect.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#782 » by hands11 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:06 am

I remember not liking the L8ner trade either. Felt they should have kept him that year but know they weren't going to because I knew Abe's MO. 2000 was the blow up year. Abe wasn't going to wait it out to do it right. Can't remember all the details of it now. I think they were still having cap issues and L8 was having injury problems. I think it was his back. I wanted them to keep him until his contract expired. Lose another year if need be. But they wanted Stackhouse gone. He had worn out his welcome.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2004.html

L8 5.6M & Stack 6.9M plus the 5th pick for AJ 12.5M and cash.

They went from 25 wins to 45 wins. So it looked like a good move to the average fan, but it seemed like they were jumping the gun to me. AJ was not ideal. Not a PF because of his D and not a SF either. But a great 6th man on a good team. i.e. Dallas. Felt the AJ addition was a really bad move. More Abe quick fix. Should have road it out and kept the pick. But hey, he was a Wiz so I hoped it worked out. He was fun to watch on offense. Seemed likable and mature. But it was never ideal. Flawed design when you can't play D at PF. At 6M off the bench, he would have been awesome. But he never saw himself as that. That was also part of the problem. My target was someone like K Mart.

Then the following year they got CB for Kwame and picked Dray in the 2nd. 42 wins. Sweet Jesus. WOW.
- but they lost Blake which I felt was a mistake. Felt he would be a solid back PG for years if given minutes.
- still had the Etan problem 5.3M, plus Hayes and that knee 2M, and they added Daniels 5M, 5yrs 30M
- I liked AD, but could have kept Blake cheaper and built slower. They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.

Bad moves based on Abe's win now framework. Time after time he repeated this same mistake. Just when things would start looking better, he jumped to soon. When stings were stall, he drug it out to long patching it up instead of fixing it. Should have kept L8, the 5th pick, and Blake and had the cap room instead of AJ and AD. Same thing that lead to them trading the 5th pick in 2009. Flawed plan from the owner. Abe was very predictable that way.

Could have been a different rebuild if they didn't jump so soon and had a long time horizon such that they reloaded after making the playoffs or stuck it out another year with L8 before getting there.

I trust Ted's at the helm a lot better.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#783 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:31 am

Hire an up and coming guy from the Spurs front office. That seems to work out really well for teams that do. There are currently 6 Spur GM's around the NBA (or 7, depending on whether Pritchard counts), and I like the direction all of them are going- Spurs and Thunder are already at the top, the Pelicans are on the way up, the Jazz and Magic are rebuilding properly through the draft and have improved their prospects since they switched to DL and RH, and the Hawks look flexible and positive moving forward. Looks a good plan to me.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#784 » by closg00 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:02 am

hands11 wrote:I remember not liking the L8ner trade either. Felt they should have kept him that year but know they weren't going to because I knew Abe's MO. 2000 was the blow up year. Abe wasn't going to wait it out to do it right. Can't remember all the details of it now. I think they were still having cap issues and L8 was having injury problems. I think it was his back. I wanted them to keep him until his contract expired. Lose another year if need be. But they wanted Stackhouse gone. He had worn out his welcome.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2004.html

L8 5.6M & Stack 6.9M plus the 5th pick for AJ 12.5M and cash.

They went from 25 wins to 45 wins. So it looked like a good move to the average fan, but it seemed like they were jumping the gun to me. AJ was not ideal. Not a PF because of his D and not a SF either. But a great 6th man on a good team. i.e. Dallas. Felt the AJ addition was a really bad move. More Abe quick fix. Should have road it out and kept the pick. But hey, he was a Wiz so I hoped it worked out. He was fun to watch on offense. Seemed likable and mature. But it was never ideal. Flawed design when you can't play D at PF. At 6M off the bench, he would have been awesome. But he never saw himself as that. That was also part of the problem. My target was someone like K Mart.

Then the following year they got CB for Kwame and picked Dray in the 2nd. 42 wins. Sweet Jesus. WOW.
- but they lost Blake which I felt was a mistake. Felt he would be a solid back PG for years if given minutes.
- still had the Etan problem 5.3M, plus Hayes and that knee 2M, and they added Daniels 5M, 5yrs 30M
- I liked AD, but could have kept Blake cheaper and built slower. They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.

Bad moves based on Abe's win now framework. Time after time he repeated this same mistake. Just when things would start looking better, he jumped to soon. When stings were stall, he drug it out to long patching it up instead of fixing it. Should have kept L8, the 5th pick, and Blake and had the cap room instead of AJ and AD. Same thing that lead to them trading the 5th pick in 2009. Flawed plan from the owner. Abe was very predictable that way.

Could have been a different rebuild if they didn't jump so soon and had a long time horizon such that they reloaded after making the playoffs or stuck it out another year with L8 before getting there.

I trust Ted's at the helm a lot better.


There you go again Hands with Abe this and Abe that. From reading your post one would think that Abe Pollin was the Wizards GM. Please stop pretending that the General Manager is not the person who advises the owner, negotiates contracts, makes drafting decisions, and all-round "manages" the team.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#785 » by rockymac52 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:29 pm

Durins Baynes wrote:Hire an up and coming guy from the Spurs front office. That seems to work out really well for teams that do. There are currently 6 Spur GM's around the NBA (or 7, depending on whether Pritchard counts), and I like the direction all of them are going- Spurs and Thunder are already at the top, the Pelicans are on the way up, the Jazz and Magic are rebuilding properly through the draft and have improved their prospects since they switched to DL and RH, and the Hawks look flexible and positive moving forward. Looks a good plan to me.


Hard to disagree with the general notion, but it's not a foolproof plan. The Suns just fired their GM this summer, Lance Blanks, who was also from the Spurs front office. It doesn't always work out unfortunately. It's still always going to be on a person to person level, but the fact that they were hired by the Spurs in the first place and spent years being groomed there appears to be a fairly good indication of future success.

Sign me up for Troy Weaver, the assistant GM in OKC (so technically a part of the Spurs front office tree since Presti's his boss). He's a DC guy, and supposedly one of the next young guns to get a shot at running a team.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#786 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:46 pm

The Suns have somehow managed to hire 2 of the only guys "in the Spurs front office" who were not highly regarded, or even really in the front office. Steve Kerr was an ESPN analyst with only loose ties to the Spurs front office if any (he played for them, but he was a minority owner of the Suns and a buddy of Sarver), and Lance Blanks so impressed the Spurs that they moved him from scout to colour commentator. The Suns probably hired them because they didn't want to spend money, but wanted to be able to say they were "hiring someone from the Spurs front office". You'll notice that unlike the respected Spurs front office guys nobody, including all the Spurs satellite front offices, has tried to bring him on board (whereas the respected Spurs guys like Ferry are always invited back, and even the less noted ones like PJ Carelisimo were brought back to be assistant coaches).

Really, it is pretty foolproof provided you sign someone who is an up and comer in their front office, and not "someone who has a vague association with them". For instance, Layden came in to work for the Spurs as their assistant GM so he could try and rebuild his reputation (which was destroyed on the Knicks), and the Spurs let him because a) he came cheap, and b) they wanted to exploit his networks, to help facilitate trades and to keep an ear out for what other front offices he's worked with are doing. Don't hire Layden, he's assistant GM, but with no real prospect of ever actually taking over. If you want to see who the Spurs are grooming, look at who they've given autonomy to (Sean Marks for instance has been given carte blanche to run the Austin Toros, a significant responsibility given how the Spurs use their D-League team). Weaver sounds a good choice too, or maybe Sean Marks in a few years.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#787 » by rockymac52 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:09 pm

Durins Baynes wrote:The Suns have somehow managed to hire 2 of the only guys "in the Spurs front office" who were not highly regarded, or even really in the front office. Steve Kerr was an ESPN analyst with only loose ties to the Spurs front office if any (he played for them, but he was a minority owner of the Suns and a buddy of Sarver), and Lance Blanks so impressed the Spurs that they moved him from scout to colour commentator. The Suns probably hired them because they didn't want to spend money, but wanted to be able to say they were "hiring someone from the Spurs front office". You'll notice that unlike the respected Spurs front office guys nobody, including all the Spurs satellite front offices, has tried to bring him on board (whereas the respected Spurs guys like Ferry are always invited back, and even the less noted ones like PJ Carelisimo were brought back to be assistant coaches).

Really, it is pretty foolproof provided you sign someone who is an up and comer in their front office, and not "someone who has a vague association with them". For instance, Layden came in to work for the Spurs as their assistant GM so he could try and rebuild his reputation (which was destroyed on the Knicks), and the Spurs let him because a) he came cheap, and b) they wanted to exploit his networks, to help facilitate trades and to keep an ear out for what other front offices he's worked with are doing. Don't hire Layden, he's assistant GM, but with no real prospect of ever actually taking over. If you want to see who the Spurs are grooming, look at who they've given autonomy to (Sean Marks for instance has been given carte blanche to run the Austin Toros, a significant responsibility given how the Spurs use their D-League team). Weaver sounds a good choice too, or maybe Sean Marks in a few years.


Very good points. That's actually some real quality analysis with legitimate insights, IMO.

I just had a thought. It's been fairly widely reported that Coach Pop intends to retire when Duncan retires, but what's the consensus on Buford's future? He's obviously had an unbelievable, hall of fame worthy run since he took over the Spurs. But might that be a good time for him to step down and hand over the reigns to one of his proteges? If that's the case, then the Spurs might be inclined to hold onto their prime candidate, instead of letting him join another team like they have in the past. Just some food for thought. It's very possible Buford sticks around for a while.

I'm also still more than willing to give Phil Jackson full control. Somebody is going to put him in charge in the near future, and his track record is impeccable, so I'd be happy to give him the opportunity. Sure, just because someone was a great coach doesn't mean they'll also be a great GM, but... 11 rings. Hard to argue with that. Don't see us making that high profile of a hire though.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#788 » by Nivek » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:54 pm

payitforward wrote:G. Acquired Larry Hughes? (I'm not remembering how this happened: FA signing?)


Hughes was signed to 3-year MLE deal by the Michael Jordan management team.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#789 » by Durins Baynes » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:29 pm

Buford's not going anywhere. His situation is different to Pop. Pop is 64 and feeling it. Buford is over 10 years younger, and has a job that isn't nearly as intensive. In fact, Pop would like to transition back into more of a front office role. Here was the owner's reaction:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-spurs121510
Though the addendum to Popovich’s contract might not be formally completed, it’s close to a formality to those within the organization. Even as the team struggled last season, Spurs owner Peter Holt made clear he wanted Popovich to stay on the sideline during the inevitable transition.

“He suggested that maybe he could have some kind of consulting role,” Holt said. “I told him I didn’t need a consultant; I need a coach.”
...
Popovich could eventually move back into the front office full time, or even take a leave from coaching for a year or two. But none of that is expected to happen until after Ginobili’s contract is completed, if it happens at all. R.C. Buford, the Spurs’ general manager, also isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He received a new contract during the summer, shortly after the New Jersey Nets showed interest in hiring him to replace Rod Thorn.

This is how the Spurs front office rolls- no bulls#@$, just say it how it is. That's from 2010 btw. I just don't see either going to another team, they'd have done so years ago if that was a realistic option. It's not about the money with Pop, he could have left as a hired gun for 5 times his current salary years ago. Also there aren't many prodigies for Buford to hand over to, even if he wanted to. The smart teams went and hired them all (Thunder, Jazz, Magic, Hawks, Pelicans and kinda the Pacers).

Phil isn't realistic- even if he decided to go somewhere, he can pick from better options than Washington. I also don't think he's the right fit, you need someone to build from the ground up. Weaver sounds a good choice.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#790 » by Dat2U » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:24 pm

I just have a hard time seeing a scenario where Grunfeld & Wittman are replaced unless we get off to a start similar to last year (which might be a stretch). As long as were competitive and within the general ballpark of the original goal (making the playoffs), I don't see Ted taking aggressive steps to upgrade the front office or coaching staff. Even if we come up short in the playoff run, I can see Ted claiming success in terms of changing the culture & making the team competitive again.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#791 » by hands11 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:56 pm

closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:I remember not liking the L8ner trade either. Felt they should have kept him that year but know they weren't going to because I knew Abe's MO. 2000 was the blow up year. Abe wasn't going to wait it out to do it right. Can't remember all the details of it now. I think they were still having cap issues and L8 was having injury problems. I think it was his back. I wanted them to keep him until his contract expired. Lose another year if need be. But they wanted Stackhouse gone. He had worn out his welcome.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2004.html

L8 5.6M & Stack 6.9M plus the 5th pick for AJ 12.5M and cash.

They went from 25 wins to 45 wins. So it looked like a good move to the average fan, but it seemed like they were jumping the gun to me. AJ was not ideal. Not a PF because of his D and not a SF either. But a great 6th man on a good team. i.e. Dallas. Felt the AJ addition was a really bad move. More Abe quick fix. Should have road it out and kept the pick. But hey, he was a Wiz so I hoped it worked out. He was fun to watch on offense. Seemed likable and mature. But it was never ideal. Flawed design when you can't play D at PF. At 6M off the bench, he would have been awesome. But he never saw himself as that. That was also part of the problem. My target was someone like K Mart.

Then the following year they got CB for Kwame and picked Dray in the 2nd. 42 wins. Sweet Jesus. WOW.
- but they lost Blake which I felt was a mistake. Felt he would be a solid back PG for years if given minutes.
- still had the Etan problem 5.3M, plus Hayes and that knee 2M, and they added Daniels 5M, 5yrs 30M
- I liked AD, but could have kept Blake cheaper and built slower. They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.

Bad moves based on Abe's win now framework. Time after time he repeated this same mistake. Just when things would start looking better, he jumped to soon. When stings were stall, he drug it out to long patching it up instead of fixing it. Should have kept L8, the 5th pick, and Blake and had the cap room instead of AJ and AD. Same thing that lead to them trading the 5th pick in 2009. Flawed plan from the owner. Abe was very predictable that way.

Could have been a different rebuild if they didn't jump so soon and had a long time horizon such that they reloaded after making the playoffs or stuck it out another year with L8 before getting there.

I trust Ted's at the helm a lot better.


There you go again Hands with Abe this and Abe that. From reading your post one would think that Abe Pollin was the Wizards GM. Please stop pretending that the General Manager is not the person who advises the owner, negotiates contracts, makes drafting decisions, and all-round "manages" the team.


Reading my post, one should conclude the truth. Owners own the team and they make a ton of important discussions. To not understand this is just sticking your head in the sand.

I never said GM don't advise. Of course they do. Actually, that's a good bit of that they do. They are the owners right hand and they manage things.

As for negotiating contracts. They negotiate some of them, but not all. Gils contract was not negotiated by Ernie. Abe was majorly involved in that. Abe decided max or not. As did Ted for Walls. Little of that had to do with EG. Just like Cooke used to do. But they do talk to other GM and get a feeling about what a team wants for a player and they talk to agents the same way.

He also doesn't make all draft decisions either but probably most. But he doesn't decide if its ok to trade or sell at top pick. The owner does that after sitting down and mapping out a plan listing to this GM. He also doesn't decide to sell picks for cash. Owners do that.

He also doesn't decide to blow a team up or build in slow via the draft. Owners do that. Sure they talk to the GM and the coach, but the owner decides the bigger moves. Its a front office and it headed by the owner, not the GM.

GM are facilitators and managers (generally speaking) Most moves EG makes adding or removing a player he probably touches base with Ted over. Now if it a call up two week thing and he has the green light to make those moves, I would doubt Ted cares much who he adds.

Basically, they Generally Manage things.

OWNER > GM > COACH

Owners are where the buck starts and stops. Period.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#792 » by closg00 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:42 pm

hands11 wrote:
They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.




This should be good. Who was mismanaging the team for so long Hands? :P
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#793 » by montestewart » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:53 pm

closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.




This should be good. Who was mismanaging the team for so long Hands? :P

EG is like Biden, just a chatty ceremonial figurehead.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#794 » by FAH1223 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:I just have a hard time seeing a scenario where Grunfeld & Wittman are replaced unless we get off to a start similar to last year (which might be a stretch). As long as were competitive and within the general ballpark of the original goal (making the playoffs), I don't see Ted taking aggressive steps to upgrade the front office or coaching staff. Even if we come up short in the playoff run, I can see Ted claiming success in terms of changing the culture & making the team competitive again.


The schedule to start features many playoff teams from a year ago and a lot of road games. I can definitely see a bad start... the problem is the end of the season looks pretty favorable for a run.

If the Grunfeld era has to end because of more losses then I'm for it..
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#795 » by hands11 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:48 pm

closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.




This should be good. Who was mismanaging the team for so long Hands? :P


:roll:

You asking who was in the front office before EG was there ?
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#796 » by TGW » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:43 pm

Why do you trust Ted so much? Leonsis has no track record of being some great owner. The Caps flounder every year despite having great talent, and the Wizards and Mystics stink. To believe Ted is some kind of saviour or superior to Abe Pollin is just drinking the monumental sports kook-aid.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#797 » by closg00 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:20 pm

hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
They have been mismanage for so long, that was the time to start building slower.




This should be good. Who was mismanaging the team for so long Hands? :P


:roll:

You asking who was in the front office before EG was there ?


YOU made the comment, not me Hands. WHO managed the team during the time-frame YOU wrote was "mismanaged for so long"? There is only one answer Hands, GRUNFELD :devil:

Game-Over Hands, please don't bother replying :wave:
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#798 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:30 pm

Closg, don't be so unreasonable. We can't really evaluate EG's success or failure until Wall's been here for 10 years - if then. Since the fans forced EG to prematurely eject Blatche, that's set back EG's master plan by at least 5 years. Cut him some slackers.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#799 » by hands11 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:11 am

TGW wrote:Why do you trust Ted so much? Leonsis has no track record of being some great owner. The Caps flounder every year despite having great talent, and the Wizards and Mystics stink. To believe Ted is some kind of saviour or superior to Abe Pollin is just drinking the monumental sports kook-aid.


My position isn't that I trust Ted so much. Do I trust him as owner more then I did Abe? Hell yes.

But that's changing the topic. It wasn't about if I trust Ted or not. It was about how teams are run and who makes what decisions.

As for Ted, I would say I'm optimistic and hopeful. Since he has taken over, the team did a complete tear down. A reboot. They even bailed on Dray just to draw a really clean line. Dumping Dray when they did was selling at the bottom and it cost Ted a ton to do it, but I can understand the logic they used.

Do I agree with ever move they have made? Nope.
Do I buy into the scenerio some post about how we could have made this or that instead of Oak/Trev. Nope. Not unless there is some evidence those other player would have signed here.
Can I understand why they made most to the moves.. yeah.. most of them.

Do I agree with the general direction and plan. Actually I do. In general. I see the plan as.

- blow it up. Clear cap. Dump Gil poison contract.
- tank and get high picks.
- find a franchise player to build around
- find a running mate that can shoot
- dump the young player whos contracts are up that didn't mature fast enough and focus on Wall and Beal
- Add vets that can still play..i.e. Nene, Okafor, Trevor A so Wall and Beal have professionals around them.
- make the playoff and attract better and better FA's.. Webby wanted to stay.. Al came.. other players along the way are starting to give the Wizards props... better and better players will come if they win.

I expect what comes next is cleaning up the situation with Kevin, Ves, Singleton and Booker. At least one goes with in the next year, maybe two. I expect they get replaced by at least quality vet.

We could add a Asik. Actually, the next step they take could be big. Trevor A and Okafor could stay, go or get traded. One or more of Kevin, Ves, Singleton and Booker. Hell, they could even move Otto in the right deal.

I'm sure Ted, EG, Whit and their support staff are doing drawing up a lot of scenarios.

The next move/moves they make could be the BIG ONE(s)...

Or, they could draw things out a little longer with what they have. Either way, we should know more about the front office soon enough.
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Re: Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing 

Post#800 » by hands11 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:59 am

closg00 wrote:
hands11 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
This should be good. Who was mismanaging the team for so long Hands? :P


:roll:

You asking who was in the front office before EG was there ?


YOU made the comment, not me Hands. WHO managed the team during the time-frame YOU wrote was "mismanaged for so long"? There is only one answer Hands, GRUNFELD :devil:



Wrong again Closg. I was talking about before EG was here. Mostly the worst of what I was talking about involved Abe and Wes combo with Wes either the HC or the GM. Lets take a walk down memory lane.

Abe/Nash/Jimmy - actually rebuilt the team pretty well. But Abe blow it up. Fired Nash before he finished.
Abe/MJ/Collins - That was mostly a clean up job after the franchise was a mess from Abe/Wes.. rock bottom.

Most the long nightmare was Abe/Wes though.

Nash showed up in 1990 after Bobby Ferry. You know who the HC was.. WES UNSELD.. He had been for the previous 2 years. Nash didn't want him but he couldn't get ride of him ( see EG/EFJ). Why, cuz he was Abe hand picked by the owner. Sound familiar ? Owner, Coach, GM :roll: Only way worse. Abe loved Wes.

Nash finally won out and he hired Jimmy Lynam in 1994. Nash had to deal with Wes for 4 years before that.
Nash had started to collect some talent. Jimmy started in 1994 with 21 wins, ended with a playoff birth in 1996 with 44

Here is the team Nash left them with
Rod Strickland 3M, Tim Legler, Whitney, Murry, Harvey Grant, C Webber, Juan Howard, Big George, Ben Wallace

You want to see the team Nash inherited ?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WSB/1991.html

Nash was brought in after Bob Ferry and years of Wizard making the playoffs and losing in the first round. Then two years of not even making the playoff with Wes as HC. Abe finally excepted he had to do a hard rebuild...like Ted is doing now. Only Wes was kept as HC so it was a dysfunction rebuild.

Well we got 2 years of Nash and Jimmy at the end of Nash's tenure, then Abe happened again. Fired Nash. You know who he put in as GM.

WES UNSELD.

The Coach Nash couldn't fire. So Nash rebuilt it, and Abe handed it over to Wes. Abe/Web brought in
B. Bickerstaff. That lasted two years. Then we got G. Heard part of a year replaced by Darryl Walker.

MJ showed up in 2000 after the team had hit rock bottom. And they had 3 suck ass contracts to boot.

Juwan Howard $16,875,000
Mitch Richmond $10,000,000
Rod Strickland $10,000,000

And IIRC, no picks either. And they sucked so bad, the best HC they could land was L. Hamilton that first year. MJ almost had someone else better come. Can't remember the name. Someone he was connected to in Chicago I think.

But in year two, MJ was able to draw D Collins who was at least a legit coach. MJ had to blow it up because the team was at a dead end with no picks and huge contracts. Another hard rest. Cleaned up those three crap contracts. He blow the Rip Hamilton asset along the way but MJ put cash in Abe pocket. He brought some shine back to the franchise that was at rock bottom. Actually, the league was doing really bad as a whole after the last strike. People watched again. And like I said, he cleaned up the mess. So Abe fired him. Hand picked his next HC, then brought in an actual legit GM. First one since Nash who had left in 1996. Its now 2003. 8 years of WTF all because Abe fired Nash to put Wes in as GM.

Well EG road out 5 years of EFJ like Nash road out Wes. Then we got Flip, but Gil pulled out a gun, Abe died, and the team had to get rebuild again. And here we are. Only no Abe to derail things this time.

Maybe you weren't around for any of this. Me.. I had a front row seat. The owner > HC > GM thing with
Abe >EFJ>EG wasn't the first time Abe had done that. The Abe/Wes love pairing was the joke of the league for at least 10 years. Abe>Wes>Nash was the first time Abe set up a dysfunctional front office.

So for those that don't seem to get why I bring up Abe, look at history. He did all those things. He set up dysfunctional front offices. He changed direction just when things were getting better. And he put his HC in place over the GMs. And he got stuck on people. Specially Wes.

Thats the period I was talking about. Before EG.

So are Ted>EG>Randy the best in the league. No. But man, I don't look a gift horse in the month. It could be so much worse. It was. I lived through it. I like Randy. From what I can tell about Ted, he seems to have a steady hand and is a decent dude. EG ? Still trying to see who he is in this better situation. At a min he is average. I suspect a little better then average. So given what I have seen in the past under Abe, I'm not upset with the front office we have. Again, it could be so much worse. Will I be upset if EG gets extended another two year. Nahh. I would understand Ted decided that. Last time we looked this good, they fired Nash before they were finished rebuilding.

But regardless of who the GM is, Ted is in a delicate place right now. What he does next will either continue to build them up, or it could derail them.

See yea in the playoff :wink:

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