Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[hands11]

Well Ves has gotten a good bit of slap down in this thread.

Excuses ? All, I did was post a video showing what it was like for him and commented about what I mind Fck it must have been to go from that to riding the bench. I guess the superhuman men of steal posters here would have handed it all a lot better. Yeah, let me know when you have 20,000 rabid fans calling you in from the bench just so you can do one last dunk so they can go crazy.

Excuses to some. Facts to others.

Playing with Wall clearly made the game easier for him. But at the end of the day, you gotta expand your game and that means sucking it up and putting in the work.

Ves is clearly still on the bubble, but I think odds are in his favor that he bounces back this year. There is no confusion about what the drill is. You want playing time, show me something. Last year clearly caught him by surprise. I don't think he expected to be treated like that as the #6 pick. Specially after the time he got the year before.

So now its all out there. Kind of like it was for Dray. Well Dray rebounded from a much lower bottom then Ves had. All Ves really needs to get back in the game is a mid range that he is confident in. If he makes that, it opens up the drive move. Throw in some ally-ops, deflections, a block and a few assists, and he can earn some playing time.

Looking forward to seeing what he does overseas in a few weeks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since an Achilles injury means a guy can't work out, I guess that means Kobe will be out of shape this season.

From personal experience, I can't believe Kobe will ever be the same.

I fully ruptured my Achilles back in 2007. I didn't opt for surgery, as I was already an older guy and I had developed a keloid around the area of a prior surgery. My doctor advised either alternative (surgery or very prolonged casting, the one I opted for) had about the same chance of success and also the same possibility for the worst-case, re-rupture and permanent debilitation.

I know Kobe is a world class athlete and he's got the best doctors money can buy. Every healing technique known to mankind is available to him. Also, Kobe trains harder than hard. He could rehab near-death type trauma all over his body better than 99% of us.

That all said, when your Achilles recovery is a b_tch! If you've ever popped the clutch cable or the break cable of a car, that's what happens to your leg from your heel all the way up your calve. My tendon popped so loudly that I thought someone dropped heavy weights on me. The tendon shriveled up like an S on my calve. It was EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL. I've broken bones, had tendon tears, sprains, separated ribs, all kinds of stuff. None of them compared to the Achilles tear. A few hours after it happened, a pretty fair amount of blood came out in my urine. As devastating as the injury is, you don't want it to happen again. You definitely don't want to push your luck rehabbing it too hard. It's a freaky, bad injury that makes you wonder if you'll even walk right again.

Mine healed I would say to 95% of what it was, but it took well over 1 1/2 years before I was fairly close (I'd say 85%) the same. (Admittedly, I didn't have the physical therapy and medical assistance Kobe has! They may say 8 months, tops.) I haven't played pick up since (mainly because I my weight I don't want to chance it). I did get the same straight line speed back but I can't bounce up like I could. Plyometrics on that one ankle/Achilles to this day is problematic. I get tendinitis in the Achilles pretty quickly. I treat that as a warning sign to slow my roll. This is SIX YEARS later. But, I'm a relative old, fat guy compared to Kobe.

I think Kobe's an old NBA player who won't have the quicks again. Only GOD can restore him after the injury he just sustained. I thought Adrian Peterson and Willis McGahee were both done. Peterson came back better than ever--but he's way younger the Kobe and so was McGahee when he blew his knee out. Also, neither of them hurt their Achilles.

Dominique Wilkins had an Achilles issue. So does Billups. Charles Barkley AND Shaq both called it quits after they hurt their Achilles. Nivek, I feel like you with your PPA formula as I say this here without getting paid to reveal and idea I alone developed. Let me be the first to say I think Kobe is going to end up the same way Shaq has.

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=160400

Shaq said [Dr.] McKeon recommended surgery that would "clean up" the area around the Achilles, but O'Neal revealed the recovery time would be close to nine months.

"I really, really thought about coming back," he said, "but this Achilles is very damaged and if I had it done the recovery would be so long we'd have same outcome as this last year -- everyone sitting around and waiting for me.

"I didn't want to let people down two years in a row. I didn't want to hold Boston hostage again.

"I'm letting everybody know now so Danny (Ainge) and the organization can try to get younger talent. I would love to come back, but they say once the Achilles is damaged it's never the same. I don't want to take that chance."

They are right. Mine's not the same and I doubt Kobe returns to over 85% of his extremely good performance level. I don't think the micro tears, adhesions, tensile strength, whatever in his Achilles will ever let him be what he once was.

Kobe will probably feel debilitated just like Gilbert has with his knee.

UNLESS, his Achilles wasn't hurt as badly as I THINK IT WAS. To my eyes (and they've lied to me many a time) Kobe seems like he's never going to be the same after that injury. But also, I KNOW THAT INJURY first hand.

[FreeBalling]

^^^^

Maybe Kobe will Rap about Dwight. I think your right about Kobe's future.

http://youtu.be/aameXUCbgVM

[Nivek]

CCJ: I agree with you that Kobe may never be the same. He had a full tear, and he turns 35 tomorrow. But, I categorically guarantee that Kobe's conditioning will be all that it ever was. He's not going to come back out of shape and blame it on the Achilles. He's lifting and rehabbing and running on an anti-gravity treadmill.

For me, it's sorta like when folks were tacitly excusing Blatche being out of shape and playing badly because it was "only" X months since his foot injury. Meanwhile, years earlier, Michael Jordan suffered a very similar injury, and despite not having all of the advances in medical science and injury rehab that came about between 1986 and 2011, the same amount of time later, Jordan was scoring 69 on the Celtics in the playoffs.

I know it's not exactly "fair" to compare guys like Blatche and Vesely to all-time greats, but...well...that's kinda the point. Jordan is arguably the GOAT BECAUSE of that psychotic drive that had him coming back before his own team wanted him back, that had him fighting with his coach and front office to increase his minutes limit, that had him going off on Boston in the playoffs. Kobe's not as good as Jordan was, but the drive is similar. Vesely (and Blatche) doesn't have a drive that's anything like those guys. That's no crime -- he's probably a better person than either of them. But, that's also why he showed up at camp out of shape and unimproved, and why he hasn't come close to reaching the potential that he has by virtue of being tall and fairly athletic.

[Kanyewest]

CCJ: I agree with you that Kobe may never be the same. He had a full tear, and he turns 35 tomorrow. But, I categorically guarantee that Kobe's conditioning will be all that it ever was. He's not going to come back out of shape and blame it on the Achilles. He's lifting and rehabbing and running on an anti-gravity treadmill.

For me, it's sorta like when folks were tacitly excusing Blatche being out of shape and playing badly because it was "only" X months since his foot injury. Meanwhile, years earlier, Michael Jordan suffered a very similar injury, and despite not having all of the advances in medical science and injury rehab that came about between 1986 and 2011, the same amount of time later, Jordan was scoring 69 on the Celtics in the playoffs.

I know it's not exactly "fair" to compare guys like Blatche and Vesely to all-time greats, but...well...that's kinda the point. Jordan is arguably the GOAT BECAUSE of that psychotic drive that had him coming back before his own team wanted him back, that had him fighting with his coach and front office to increase his minutes limit, that had him going off on Boston in the playoffs. Kobe's not as good as Jordan was, but the drive is similar. Vesely (and Blatche) doesn't have a drive that's anything like those guys. That's no crime -- he's probably a better person than either of them. But, that's also why he showed up at camp out of shape and unimproved, and why he hasn't come close to reaching the potential that he has by virtue of being tall and fairly athletic.

Guys like MJ/ (and hopefully Kobe- don't want to see anyone go down with a career ending injury) are the exception not the norm. Heck, even MJ became mortal by putting on that Wizards uniform.

[Nivek]

Guys like MJ/ (and hopefully Kobe- don't want to see anyone go down with a career ending injury) are the exception not the norm.

Well, yeah. Which type of guy would you rather have on your team? An abnormal freak like MJ, or a "normal" guy like Vesely?

[Kanyewest]

Guys like MJ/ (and hopefully Kobe- don't want to see anyone go down with a career ending injury) are the exception not the norm.

Well, yeah. Which type of guy would you rather have on your team? An abnormal freak like MJ, or a "normal" guy like Vesely?

MJ.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

RealGM interview with Jan:

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22961 ... Jan-Vesely

[stevemcqueen1]

RealGM interview with Jan:

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22961 ... Jan-Vesely

Sounds like he believes he doesn't necessarily have a spot on this team. It's going to be hard for him to crack a 9 man rotation frankly.

I wonder why he said it's a hard question in reference to Satoransky? I wish I knew what the plan for him was.

[closg00]

RealGM interview with Jan:

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22961 ... Jan-Vesely

Sounds like he believes he doesn't necessarily have a spot on this team. It's going to be hard for him to crack a 9 man rotation frankly.

I wonder why he said it's a hard question in reference to Satoransky? I wish I knew what the plan for him was.

Plan for Sato? Does Grunfeld ever plan beyond his next trade deadline? I think the initial plan was to provide Jan a bench-buddy from the homeland, but SL exposed Sato as another Euro in-need of 3-more years of seasoning before another look is warranted.

[montestewart]

RealGM interview with Jan:

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22961 ... Jan-Vesely

Sounds like he believes he doesn't necessarily have a spot on this team. It's going to be hard for him to crack a 9 man rotation frankly.

I wonder why he said it's a hard question in reference to Satoransky? I wish I knew what the plan for him was.

A couple of those answers sounded awkwardly phrased, like maybe he's having trouble putting his thoughts into English (or if translations, not perfectly accurate ones). "You cannot change the way you play, you have to play and that's it. What I would like to improve? Everything. In last two years it didn't work so I have to change something." Some follow up questions might have helped clarify what he meant by all that.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

RealGM interview with Jan:

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22961 ... Jan-Vesely

Sounds like he believes he doesn't necessarily have a spot on this team. It's going to be hard for him to crack a 9 man rotation frankly.

I wonder why he said it's a hard question in reference to Satoransky? I wish I knew what the plan for him was.

A couple of those answers sounded awkwardly phrased, like maybe he's having trouble putting his thoughts into English (or if translations, not perfectly accurate ones). "You cannot change the way you play, you have to play and that's it. What I would like to improve? Everything. In last two years it didn't work so I have to change something." Some follow up questions might have helped clarify what he meant by all that.

Yeah it's kind of a strange interview.

RealGM: What are those details that make this transition so difficult?

Vesely: The main thing is that in Europe I was playing as a small forward, and in the NBA I was moved to four position. In summer league, I even played as a center sometimes. So I had to fight with big guys. Coach puts me on the floor, so I have to adjust my game and play for a position.

RealGM: Do you feel comfortable with the decision to put you under the basket?

Vesely: It's very hard as I'm used to running on the wing all the time. It's different, but that's how basketball works.


He says he has to adjust his game, then later says you cannot change the way you play. He clearly isn't happy about the change in position. He sees himself as a 3.


RealGM: Are you excited about the idea that you and another Czech, Tomas Satoransky, might soon be teammates in Washington?

Vesely: I know him from when I was 16 years old and I know that he wants to be in Washington as well. I would be really excited to play together with Tomas. We could hang out and do things together, but it's a hard question.


Again a sense of some frustration, he wants Tomas there, and Tomas wants to be there, but it isn't going to happen anytime soon if ever. This following Tomas' recent comments about maybe Washington not being a fit for him after Wall's extention.

[penbeast0]

Guys like MJ/ (and hopefully Kobe- don't want to see anyone go down with a career ending injury) are the exception not the norm.

Well, yeah. Which type of guy would you rather have on your team? An abnormal freak like MJ, or a "normal" guy like Vesely?

If not superstar talent, Vesely. Only a superstar can make the ridiculous ego thing work because everyone gives them more room. If you have only role player talent and superstar ego, you are Derrick Gervin or Fly Williams -- cup of coffee and goodbye.

[Nivek]

Guys like MJ/ (and hopefully Kobe- don't want to see anyone go down with a career ending injury) are the exception not the norm.

Well, yeah. Which type of guy would you rather have on your team? An abnormal freak like MJ, or a "normal" guy like Vesely?

If not superstar talent, Vesely. Only a superstar can make the ridiculous ego thing work because everyone gives them more room. If you have only role player talent and superstar ego, you are Derrick Gervin or Fly Williams -- cup of coffee and goodbye.

The issue was work ethic, not ego.

[penbeast0]

My apologies, I thought it was that hyper-intense drive for perfection that characterizes so many of the greats and makes them jerks to their teammates (MJ, Kobe, Oscar, etc.). If the question is whether you would rather have a guy with a great work ethic or not, I don't see where that is much of a question.

[closg00]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/9/4/ ... eurobasket

[closg00]

Notable for who isn't on the list. Jan Vesely isn't even a top-10 player in Europe IMO.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... motiejunas

[nuposse04]

i caught the tail end of the stream and saw the game basically came down to the last shot. Jan finished with 17-7-3blks apparently, not sure how efficiently though. Tomas also had 12-4-4, again, I'm not sure how efficiently either. Should be a box score somewhere. Ah I found it:

http://live.fibaeurope.com/www/Game.asp ... 791&lng=en

man I must be bored.

*I did watch some of the first half as well, but had to go do something productive, I saw Jan was playing Center against some banger, kinda thought he woulda disappeared in this game.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Jan played really well. I watched second quarter and he was the best player of them in that period. I haven't watched him in a long time but he is way stronger than he was when he played in Partizan.

[doclinkin]

Hah! Jan shot 1 for 5 from the FT stripe. If he'd hit 3 more FTs they win the game.