Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[Dark Faze]

At last.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbn5U7aI2Ng[/youtube]

He looks marshmellowy soft in the post--whether its posting up or defending it.

There's a lot of potential there though for sure. I like him.

Not at # 3 though.

[WizarDynasty]

Seraphin has plenty of faults but insufficient lower body strength ain't one of them.

Does Seraphin "DISPLAY" superior lower body strength. the answer is a resounding NO. How often do you see Seraphin displaying above average lower body strength while fighting for a rebound.

Did seraphin "DISPLAY" above average lower body strength fighting for rebounds before coming to the NBA against top tier rebounders and winning?
If you don't "DISPLAY" or "SHOW" above average lower body strength fighting for rebounding position, that's all that matters. I have never seen visual EVIDENCE of Seraphin winning rebounding position fighting battles against another big with above average lower to average body strength.

If you don't display it, and he has been here for 2 years, then you might as well not have it to begin with. All that matters is if you show it.
Booker is an explosive athlete but he can't show because he has poor body control with the basketball.
Seraphin has poor leverage ability which is why he can't show or DISPLAY above average lower body strength.

The question is, does seraphin regularly move other bigmen out of place using only his lower body while securing a rebound. If he regularly does this, then he has displayed above average lower body strength. If you don't see seraphin moving others around using his lower body, does it really matter if he "looks" like he has lower body strength because he is bulky. Either you SHOW it or you DONT regularly.

If you can't display that you have superior lower body strength on the court, then YOU DON"T HAVE IT as far as basketball is concerned.

[The Consiglieri]

Recently drafted guys in the lottery stuck b/w the 3 & 4 positions

Derrick Williams
Michael Beasley
Marcus Morris
Jan Vesely
Al-Farouq Aminu
Earl Clark
Jeff Green
Thaddeus Young
Julian Wright

The only guy on this list that wasn't a complete disappointment for the team that drafted him was Thaddeus Young.

In fairness, only 3 of those guys were as highly thought of or close to it as Bennett when they were drafted. Williams, who I doubt was as highly thought of as bennett, Beasley, who was running neck and neck for a while to go #1, and Green who went a bit too high but was well thought of. The rest were lesser or much lesser prospects.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't have to rewrite squat. Do you need Chad Ford to tell you how to wipe your ass too? I didn't know he was the only source of info on draft prospects. So his word is as good as gold???? Anyone considering Faried undersized at the time simply didn't do the research. The measurements where available long before the 2011 draft. When I watched him play, he looked like the biggest & most active dude on the court. He looked like a big PF to me. I said as much at time. I don't have to rewrite a damn thing. You can look up what I said.

Well, you are re-writing "squat', as Faried was clearly considered a tweener in the draft, and you've clearly indicated that he wasn't. Keep ignoring the evidence (which took me all of 5 minutes to find) if you choose.

And you do realize that Chad Ford doesn't provide his own opinions, right? All the stuff in the ESPN draft profiles that he puts together comes from NBA scouts.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. This is your shtick. You take your stance, and anyone that speaks to the contrary is immediately an incompetent idiot.

Everyone, everywhere that I came across at the time mentioned Faried's size not being ideal. The chief concerns with him as a prospect were 1.) size and length 2.) raw offensive game and 3.) Morehead State quality of competition concerns.

If those weren't concerns, he never would have dropped so far in the first place. They were. The funny thing is that his eval was actually as a 2nd rounder because of those concerns until March of '11. He only raced up to where he went on the strength of impressing in the tourney, and by metric analysis.

[The Consiglieri]

Double Post

[sfam]

On Faried:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/_/id/19371

Negatives
Needs to continue add strength
Lacks ideal size for his position
Still raw on the offensive end of the ball
Suffers from asthma

http://forums.warriorsworld.net/main/msgs/3005575.phtml (originally in the Charlotte Observer, but no longer archived on their website}

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/48187/no-such-thing-as-a-tweener-anymore

Wait a sec, Faried suffers from Asthma? I bet Denver is sorry they drafted him. Just like Bennett, Faried clearly won't have the stamina to make it in the NBA...

[jivelikenice]

Recently drafted guys in the lottery stuck b/w the 3 & 4 positions

Derrick Williams
Michael Beasley
Marcus Morris
Jan Vesely
Al-Farouq Aminu
Earl Clark
Jeff Green
Thaddeus Young
Julian Wright

The only guy on this list that wasn't a complete disappointment for the team that drafted him was Thaddeus Young.

In fairness, only 3 of those guys were as highly thought of or close to it as Bennett when they were drafted. Williams, who I doubt was as highly thought of as bennett, Beasley, who was running neck and neck for a while to go #1, and Green who went a bit too high but was well thought of. The rest were lesser or much lesser prospects.

Good point in that most of these guys were mid first round selections. I also wouldn't lump Jeff Green in with them. He is a SF but was playing out of position because he got drafted with Durant and they both play the same position. Because of being miscast at the 4 by OKC, he was labaled a tweener.

[jivelikenice]

One of the last players I think about when I see Bennett is Faried...Why are we discussing this comp? (I'm trying to gauge if its worth going back and reading all the posts on it)

[montestewart]

WizD, sometimes you really do hit on something (other than the pipe) that makes sense to me. This Tontoz vs. Dat2U debate (both speaking in proxy for others in a pitched battle) is overlooking the strength aspect. Undersized collegiate rebounders have a good track record of translating that ability to the pros, partially because they arrive in the NBA with the same strength that allowed them to be such great rebounders in college. Part of the reason Faried, Millsap, Blair, and others went low was their size, but part of the reason they overcame widespread skepticism was because their strength offset whatever shortcomings in height or weight.

Faried's reach and wingspan are fine for a PF, but he is a little on the light side. Before he was drafted, many here and elsewhere focused not on his weight but on the evidence of his strength more than offsetting his weight. After Blair and Millsap, I should have known better, but I wasn't fully sold on him myself. I would have been fine with him as the pick, but I was fine with the Singleton pick. I see now that Faried fit perfectly into the model of a strong player and top rebounder who projects to likely be productive at the next level as a big, not as a tweener.

Regardless of Bennett's exact dimensions, it's not a given that NBA coaching, competition, conditioning, and other developments wouldn't help him adjust his game to the pro level. I guess we'll find out eventually if he's "undersized" as far as his reach, etc. goes, but it seems if his reach were greater than expected for his height, that would be a fact he would want out there sooner rather than later.

[montestewart]

On Faried:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/_/id/19371

Negatives
Needs to continue add strength
Lacks ideal size for his position
Still raw on the offensive end of the ball
Suffers from asthma

http://forums.warriorsworld.net/main/msgs/3005575.phtml (originally in the Charlotte Observer, but no longer archived on their website}

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/48187/no-such-thing-as-a-tweener-anymore

Wait a sec, Faried suffers from Asthma? I bet Denver is sorry they drafted him. Just like Bennett, Faried clearly won't have the stamina to make it in the NBA...

McGee has asthma? No problem. Faried does just fine with it.

[sfam]

On Faried:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/_/id/19371

Wait a sec, Faried suffers from Asthma? I bet Denver is sorry they drafted him. Just like Bennett, Faried clearly won't have the stamina to make it in the NBA...

McGee has asthma? No problem. Faried does just fine with it.

My post was in jest, pointing out the knock on Bennett should not be why we don't take him.

[sfam]

Ho hum, yet another "Bennett will be the best player from this draft" assessment:
http://dimemag.com/2013/06/nba-gms-need-to-be-drafting-anthony-bennett-hes-the-next-larry-johnson/

[The Consiglieri]

On Faried:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/_/id/19371

Negatives
Needs to continue add strength
Lacks ideal size for his position
Still raw on the offensive end of the ball
Suffers from asthma

http://forums.warriorsworld.net/main/msgs/3005575.phtml (originally in the Charlotte Observer, but no longer archived on their website}

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/48187/no-such-thing-as-a-tweener-anymore

Wait a sec, Faried suffers from Asthma? I bet Denver is sorry they drafted him. Just like Bennett, Faried clearly won't have the stamina to make it in the NBA...

I wish they'd be more specific on the asthma angle. I had a cousin with severe life threatening asthma, and my grandmother had it nearly as bad, i was lucky and mine was a more moderate form, but my childhood and teen years featured plenty of hurried trips to the hospital in the middle of the night because an attack while i was sleeping scared my mother. Most of the time, however, especially as i hit my teens and twenties, exercise actually helped. The only issue was that if i experienced a great deal of down time from athletics, due to injury, then went right back to it, trying to do anything rigorous would start a severe attack, but as my lungs got used to the exertion, the attacks would lessen, abate, and eventually vanish entirely and my lungs would get stronger.

This wasn't true of my cousin and others who suffer as severely as he does, but honestly, in most cases rigorous exercise and fitness programs help asthma, they don't exacerbate it, basically with repeated and consistenly rigorous exercise routines, your lungs simply handle it better and get stronger.

[Dat2U]

My point has always been that they were invalid concerns and I said so at the time. The measurements show that the concerns regarding his height & length were invalid.

This goes to a bigger overall point.

Everyone has access to the same data, but what determines how successful you are at making the right choices is how you analyze that data. Are you leaving key pieces of information out? How do you utilize all the information to make an informed decision?

IMO those concerns about Faried's height also shows the lack of research and effort of many of the NBA analysts out there. GM's & scouts too. If your utilizing a scouting report to be your sole piece of key information regarding a player, your getting incomplete information. Your also getting one person's opinion and giving that opinion far too much weight.

When the 2011 draft night came around, I personally had no questions regarding whether he had the physical traits to play to PF position. Maybe you and 95% of other draftniks did by reading the scouting reports. But I knew his standing reach which anyone could have access to. I saw him play much bigger than his listed size when I watched game footage. I had him graded as a lottery pick. This isn't hindsight or rewriting history, this is a fact that can be looked up if anyone doesn't believe it.

[Dat2U]

Double post.

[Dat2U]

Recently drafted guys in the lottery stuck b/w the 3 & 4 positions

Derrick Williams
Michael Beasley
Marcus Morris
Jan Vesely
Al-Farouq Aminu
Earl Clark
Jeff Green
Thaddeus Young
Julian Wright

The only guy on this list that wasn't a complete disappointment for the team that drafted him was Thaddeus Young.

In fairness, only 3 of those guys were as highly thought of or close to it as Bennett when they were drafted. Williams, who I doubt was as highly thought of as bennett, Beasley, who was running neck and neck for a while to go #1, and Green who went a bit too high but was well thought of. The rest were lesser or much lesser prospects.

Good point in that most of these guys were mid first round selections. I also wouldn't lump Jeff Green in with them. He is a SF but was playing out of position because he got drafted with Durant and they both play the same position. Because of being miscast at the 4 by OKC, he was labaled a tweener.

All of the guys were lottery picks, but it also shows you that teams in general stay away from drafting tweeners too high.

[dobrojim]

we're arguably off track here in discussing Faried but I wonder if despite
the totally impressive stats Dat posted about Faried if he isn't an example
of the kind of player some here have long argued against having, that is a
player who can't be a starter on a championship team. He was a great value
for where he was taken but I'll ask again, can he really match up against
legit sized 4s? I'm not sure he can.

[tontoz]

How many lightweight 4s with no perimeter skills are successful in the NBA? Funny how history seems to only come into play when it is convenient.

[montestewart]

Wait a sec, Faried suffers from Asthma? I bet Denver is sorry they drafted him. Just like Bennett, Faried clearly won't have the stamina to make it in the NBA...

McGee has asthma? No problem. Faried does just fine with it.

My post was in jest, pointing out the knock on Bennett should not be why we don't take him.

I know. You and I can have our debate as a light-hearted counterpoint to more strained exchanges.

[Dat2U]

How many lightweight 4s with no perimeter skills are successful in the NBA? Funny how history seems to only come into play when it is convenient.

Your ability to make points without making offering any real insight is really a developed skill you have.

How did we even get on lightweight 4s anyways? What lightweight 4 were we looking to draft with the 3rd pick??

Does Joakim Noah count? I know he's a C but he was only 225 LOL.

Chris Bosh was 225.

Tobias Harris 223.

Apparently Marcus Camby was 223 when he was the #2 pick.

Anthony Davis was only 222. Why in the world was he a #1 pick being so skinny?

Larry Sanders was only 222 as well at C. Kevin Garnett came in at 217.

Yeah, but your right... Faried was anomly i guess.