Deni Avdija

[tontoz]

This is a big opportunity for Deni with bertans and Rui out. He has already established himself as a plus defender. If he could start putting up points, like tonight, it would make it easier for Wes to play him 25+ minutes.

[NatP4]

Deni needs to play ALOT more. Same with Kispert

[Ruzious]

Deni needs to play ALOT more. Same with Kispert

They really need Kispert out there for his 3 point shooting threat. He's also shown a good ability to cut to the basket.

[dobrojim]

Deni to G League? Hell no.... Not based on the way he's playing right now. Overall, he has been extremely effective! & for a guy his age...? All the moreso.

He's 3d on the team in rebounding. He's second in blocked shots. Only a few games, no conclusions to draw, but so far so good.

Prime is still correct in saying that he needs to become a better scorer -- that's what is holding down his ceiling at present.

Why does his age matter? Regardless, Deni's not becoming a better scorer any time soon. What's important isn't his scoring, but his shooting. He needs to be able to space the floor. This is nothing new. It was said when we drafted him. It was said when he was knocking down shots early in his rookie year. And it's being said now. I want to be clear, other than Gafford and Harrell, everyone on our team should be able to make 3's. It is what good teams do.

Age matters a lot because if he played like this at age 26, we'd pretty much know that was
who he is. When you're only 20, you have a lot more potential to get better as you gain
experience, assuming you learn and have good coaching. NBA teams have known this
for a long time.

[Frichuela]

Deni to G League? Hell no.... Not based on the way he's playing right now. Overall, he has been extremely effective! & for a guy his age...? All the moreso.

He's 3d on the team in rebounding. He's second in blocked shots. Only a few games, no conclusions to draw, but so far so good.

Prime is still correct in saying that he needs to become a better scorer -- that's what is holding down his ceiling at present.

Why does his age matter? Regardless, Deni's not becoming a better scorer any time soon. What's important isn't his scoring, but his shooting. He needs to be able to space the floor. This is nothing new. It was said when we drafted him. It was said when he was knocking down shots early in his rookie year. And it's being said now. I want to be clear, other than Gafford and Harrell, everyone on our team should be able to make 3's. It is what good teams do.

Age matters a lot because if he played like this at age 26, we'd pretty much know that was
who he is. When you're only 20, you have a lot more potential to get better as you gain
experience, assuming you learn and have good coaching. NBA teams have known this
for a long time.

Agreed. Let's not forget that Deni is 3 years younger than Rui and 2 years younger than Kispert. Yesterday's game was encouraging, very composed on both sides of the court.

[willbcocks]

I've only been able to see the highlights of the atlanta game, but I liked what I saw: calling out for the ball in the corner, pushing the ball on the break himself when he got a rebound, and a couple of decisive moves putting pressure on the defense with his dribble when the defender comes out at him.

The latter two are things he should really be focusing while he works on his shooting.

[prime1time]

Deni to G League? Hell no.... Not based on the way he's playing right now. Overall, he has been extremely effective! & for a guy his age...? All the moreso.

He's 3d on the team in rebounding. He's second in blocked shots. Only a few games, no conclusions to draw, but so far so good.

Prime is still correct in saying that he needs to become a better scorer -- that's what is holding down his ceiling at present.

Why does his age matter? Regardless, Deni's not becoming a better scorer any time soon. What's important isn't his scoring, but his shooting. He needs to be able to space the floor. This is nothing new. It was said when we drafted him. It was said when he was knocking down shots early in his rookie year. And it's being said now. I want to be clear, other than Gafford and Harrell, everyone on our team should be able to make 3's. It is what good teams do.

Age matters a lot because if he played like this at age 26, we'd pretty much know that was
who he is. When you're only 20, you have a lot more potential to get better as you gain
experience, assuming you learn and have good coaching. NBA teams have known this
for a long tiAme.

Age matters when the question is how good can Deni become. But the purpose of my is to change the question to who gives us the best ability to win right now. Admittedly Avdija played well yesterday, but for the season he is still shooting 38% from the field and 28% from 3. To be honest, I'm not even asking for that much. Last year Avdija shot 41.7% from the field and 31.5 from 3. With an entire offseason of work I think it's fair to hope for at least a 3 to 4% increase in 3-point shooting. FG % I'm more flexible on and as long as he's being aggressive and not taking terrible shots I'd be willing to live with a similar fg%.

Ultimately, Avdija needs to be good enough shooter to stretch the floor and good enough scorer to not allow teams to hide non-defenders on him. I was at the Boston game. There were portions of the game where Avdija was guarded by Payton Pritchard (Pritchard is 6'1) in that game Avdija finished 1-4. I love his rebounding and his defense but to the degree that he can't do either, you are now greatly hurting the overall team.

I use to wonder how Avdija compared to Franz Wagner. Well the verdict is in.

Watch on YouTube

NatP4 I have to apologize lol
This is what we need from Avdija. If teams are going to help off on you, make open shots. Have some semblance of an ability to attack lackluster defense. And play good defense.

[NatP4]

Love Avdija, but he will never be the level of prospect that Wagner is. Not a strong enough frame or elite level shooting touch.

Wagner has all kinds of advanced finishes at the rim and elite touch on his floater. Just a better athlete as well, elite lateral quickness and an extremely strong frame and physicality Probably a better passer and playmaker than Deni also. Combine that with the ability to shoot the 3 at a 40% clip on high volume and guard all 5 positions, and you have an absolute stud like a prime Otto Porter, Mikal Bridges, Gordon Hayward, Nic Batum etc...

Still wish we could’ve traded up to #8 to get him. He’s going to be an elite role player.

[NatP4]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

[Ruzious]

Love Avdija, but he will never be the level of prospect that Wagner is. Not a strong enough frame or elite level shooting touch.

Wagner has all kinds of advanced finishes at the rim and elite touch on his floater. Just a better athlete as well, elite lateral quickness and an extremely strong frame and physicality Probably a better passer and playmaker than Deni also. Combine that with the ability to shoot the 3 at a 40% clip on high volume and guard all 5 positions, and you have an absolute stud like a prime Otto Porter, Mikal Bridges, Gordon Hayward, Nic Batum etc...

Still wish we could’ve traded up to #8 to get him. He’s going to be an elite role player.

Wagner's having a heckuva rookie year - better than I thought he would - good call on him! Cool that he plays with his big brother... who's moved ahead of Robin Lopez on the depth chart. Notice Wagner is having his success starting at the 3 - playing with 2 bigs. He might do even better playing at the 4 - with Hayward playing the 3 - they could run more.

[NatP4]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

Wagner would’ve started on last years team and been a perfect 3&D fit. They were using 6 ft point guards at the 3/4 last year because they had no one that could make spot up shots and guard wings.

Go back to before the NBA for both of them. Avdija couldn’t make free throws or 3s in Europe, there’s no evidence that he will ever be a good shooter. Wagner has been a capable shooter for years outside of one small stretch as a freshman at Michigan.

To this date, Avdija has posted 9.8 points per 36 on 51% TS%. Again, I think he will be a good useful player, but Wagner is an elite glue guy role player in the modern NBA and a far better prospect in my eyes. I would’ve moved Avdija+Rui+the 22nd pick to get Wagner.

[NatP4]

Love Avdija, but he will never be the level of prospect that Wagner is. Not a strong enough frame or elite level shooting touch.

Wagner has all kinds of advanced finishes at the rim and elite touch on his floater. Just a better athlete as well, elite lateral quickness and an extremely strong frame and physicality Probably a better passer and playmaker than Deni also. Combine that with the ability to shoot the 3 at a 40% clip on high volume and guard all 5 positions, and you have an absolute stud like a prime Otto Porter, Mikal Bridges, Gordon Hayward, Nic Batum etc...

Still wish we could’ve traded up to #8 to get him. He’s going to be an elite role player.

Wagner's having a heckuva rookie year - better than I thought he would - good call on him! Cool that he plays with his big brother... who's moved ahead of Robin Lopez on the depth chart. Notice Wagner is having his success starting at the 3 - playing with 2 bigs. He might do even better playing at the 4 - with Hayward playing the 3 - they could run more.

Wait until they get Isaac back. That team is going to be ridiculous on the defensive end.

[Ruzious]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

Wagner would’ve started on last years team and been a perfect 3&D fit. They were using 6 ft point guards at the 3/4 last year because they had no one that could make spot up shots and guard wings.

Go back to before the NBA for both of them. Avdija couldn’t make free throws or 3s in Europe, there’s no evidence that he will ever be a good shooter. Wagner has been a capable shooter for years outside of one small stretch as a freshman at Michigan.

To this date, Avdija has posted 9.8 points per 36 on 51% TS%. Again, I think he will be a good useful player, but Wagner is an elite glue guy role player in the modern NBA and a far better prospect in my eyes. I would’ve moved Avdija+Rui+the 22nd pick to get Wagner.

And if I remember right, Wagner played some pro ball as a teen in Germany before coming to the US - and was a good 3 point shooter there.

[prime1time]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

This is an after the fact changing of history. Deni came in last year and started. If he played well, he would have remained a starter but after a hot start shooting wise he cooled off. Through the 1st 11 games of last season Avdija was shooting 45% from 3 and 45% from the field. After those 11 games, Avdija was out because of covid protocol. For the rest of the season he shot 27.8% from 3. Through 7 games this year, Avdija is averaging 38.7% from the field and 28.6% from 3. We can focus on the fact that he's 20 and we can talk about his potential, but a lot of it rings hollow.

For comparison purposes Troy Brown Jr, averaged 34% from the 3 in his second year and for his career he is a 33% 3-point shooter. We can talk about Deni is 20 but the Wizards made the decision to move from Troy Brown Jr when he was 21. When you exclude that initial 11 game stretch Deni is now shooting around 28% for his last 50 games. I'm not asking him to be Franz Wagner, but he needs to at the very least show improvement especially when it comes to shooting.

I'm going to say something that some people may not like but it needs to be said. Good shooters do not shoot 28% from 3 for 50 game stretches and for Avdija to stick in this league he needs to be a good shooter. In his first two seasons Brown Jr. was a 33% 3-point shooter.

What happens next will be inevitable. Good defenses will leave Avdija open at the 3-point line to slow down Beal, Dinwiddie and Harrell. Eventually the ball will end up in Avdija's hands at the 3-point line and he will need to make shots. If he does, then this 50 game stretch will be forgotten. But if this current trend continues at some point a change will have to be made.

[nate33]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

This is an after the fact changing of history. Deni came in last year and started. If he played well, he would have remained a starter but after a hot start shooting wise he cooled off. Through the 1st 11 games of last season Avdija was shooting 45% from 3 and 45% from the field. After those 11 games, Avdija was out because of covid protocol. For the rest of the season he shot 27.8% from 3. Through 7 games this year, Avdija is averaging 38.7% from the field and 28.6% from 3. We can focus on the fact that he's 20 and we can talk about his potential, but a lot of it rings hollow.

For comparison purposes Troy Brown Jr, averaged 34% from the 3 in his second year and for his career he is a 33% 3-point shooter. We can talk about Deni is 20 but the Wizards made the decision to move from Troy Brown Jr when he was 21. When you exclude that initial 11 game stretch Deni is now shooting around 28% for his last 50 games. I'm not asking him to be Franz Wagner, but he needs to at the very least show improvement especially when it comes to shooting.

I'm going to say something that some people may not like but it needs to be said. Good shooters do not shoot 28% from 3 for 50 game stretches and for Avdija to stick in this league he needs to be a good shooter. In his first two seasons Brown Jr. was a 33% 3-point shooter.

What happens next will be inevitable. Good defenses will leave Avdija open at the 3-point line to slow down Beal, Dinwiddie and Harrell. Eventually the ball will end up in Avdija's hands at the 3-point line and he will need to make shots. If he does, then this 50 game stretch will be forgotten. But if this current trend continues at some point a change will have to be made.

All of this is true. But I will point out in Deni's defense that he was hurt all offseason and his ability to work on his shooting touch would have been limited.

[Dolevi]

Just look at those highlights. Wagner is creating his own shot, guarding KAT, knocking down five 3s, finishing with advanced floaters, great footwork around the basket.

He’s already posting 17-4-2-1 per 36 on 61% TS and playing 32+ minutes a game as a guy that just turned 20. That’s a home run pick by Orlando.

Completely out of context comparison, situations completely different and microscopic sample sizes. Deni has played on a team last year were young players were viewed as an afterthought and not be able to make mistakes and this year on a team stacked with forwards. Wagner, plays on a team where he plays 30+ minutes a night that is completely rebuilding and able to play through the bad. Oh yeah, they are 2-6.

This is an after the fact changing of history. Deni came in last year and started. If he played well, he would have remained a starter but after a hot start shooting wise he cooled off. Through the 1st 11 games of last season Avdija was shooting 45% from 3 and 45% from the field. After those 11 games, Avdija was out because of covid protocol. For the rest of the season he shot 27.8% from 3. Through 7 games this year, Avdija is averaging 38.7% from the field and 28.6% from 3. We can focus on the fact that he's 20 and we can talk about his potential, but a lot of it rings hollow.

For comparison purposes Troy Brown Jr, averaged 34% from the 3 in his second year and for his career he is a 33% 3-point shooter. We can talk about Deni is 20 but the Wizards made the decision to move from Troy Brown Jr when he was 21. When you exclude that initial 11 game stretch Deni is now shooting around 28% for his last 50 games. I'm not asking him to be Franz Wagner, but he needs to at the very least show improvement especially when it comes to shooting.

I'm going to say something that some people may not like but it needs to be said. Good shooters do not shoot 28% from 3 for 50 game stretches and for Avdija to stick in this league he needs to be a good shooter. In his first two seasons Brown Jr. was a 33% 3-point shooter.

What happens next will be inevitable. Good defenses will leave Avdija open at the 3-point line to slow down Beal, Dinwiddie and Harrell. Eventually the ball will end up in Avdija's hands at the 3-point line and he will need to make shots. If he does, then this 50 game stretch will be forgotten. But if this current trend continues at some point a change will have to be made.

First let's try make things work out so he'll shoot to the basket more. Right now (and so for last season) the amount of shots he takes is probably very low. When you shoot 4-5 times per a game (in the good case), it's not easy to get into a rhythm. It's something that right now demands improvement - being more assartive and aggressive, more selfish and making decisions in offense, get touches and try making plays more than before.

He does need to shoot better and work on it, but also you can't ignore the Corona season, his injury, Scott Brooks.. HIS ROLE in the team back then. There are a lot of outside factors and impacts which can influence a player's performance. You need to take that into consideration and trust the proccess, give him the time he needs. Btw, in my opinion TBJ was a good player, and i didn't understand this decision to give up on him. Especially when you have that young player (who can evolve into something very good). Deni needs to shoot better, it's not a secret, but give him time to work on it. Besides, his potential is greater in other aspects of the game, less in shooting (even though he does need to improve it).

All of this is true. But I will point out in Deni's defense that he was hurt all offseason and his ability to work on his shooting touch would have been limited.

Right..

[payitforward]

...I'm going to say something that some people may not like but it needs to be said....

Does it need to be said just about Avdija? Or is it the kind of thing you'd say about any player who fit the profile you're commenting on? Just as a random example, if the same description had fit Rui Hachimura at the same point in his career, would you have said it about Rui?

...Good shooters do not shoot 28% from 3 for 50 game stretches....

Aaah, so I guess you wouldn't say it about Rui -- since that is most certainly true of him, & I'm pretty sure you didn't say anything even remotely like that about him.

So, this is just about Deni, isn't it? It's not about any other player. Same goes when you write...

...and for Avdija to stick in this league he needs to be a good shooter....

You just mean Deni Avdija. You wouldn't say it about Rui.

For example, right now we are 7 games into Deni's 2d year in the league, right? When we were 7 games into Rui's 2d year, his 3 pt. %? was worse than Deni's. But, you weren't writing this kind of stuff about Rui a year ago today -- why?

Come to think of it, on their respective careers overall, who has the higher 3 pt. %, Rui or Deni? They are identical. Deni's is better by @1/100th of a percentage point.

...What happens next will be inevitable. Good defenses will leave Avdija open at the 3-point line to slow down Beal, Dinwiddie and Harrell. Eventually the ball will end up in Avdija's hands at the 3-point line and he will need to make shots. If he does, then this 50 game stretch will be forgotten. But if this current trend continues at some point a change will have to be made.

Here's the thing -- from what I've provided above, you know that the exact same thing could be said with Rui's name in place of Deni's. If it's true, then it's true of both of them. So, if you say it's true about Deni, then shouldn't we hear you say the exact same thing about Rui?

Btw, at least Deni would be willing to take that shot you describe. About twice as willing as Rui, right? He takes 3-pointers at almost twice the rate, doesn't he?

[payitforward]

&, although this seems pointlessly obvious to me, while I'm at it:

...and for Avdija to stick in this league he needs to be a good shooter....

Is that all he needs? Does he need anything else?

For that matter, is it all Rui needs? Does Rui need anything else?

How about being a good rebounder? Do both Avdija & Rui need to be good rebounders "to stick in this league?" Right now, Deni is getting 55% more boards per 40 minutes than Rui did last year. Does that matter? He's getting almost twice as many offensive boards -- does that mean anything?

He's blocking six times as many shots as Rui did last year. Mean anything?

Note -- I'm not criticizing Rui, I'm criticizing this way of judging a young player.

[tontoz]

Deni's size and defense will keep him in the league even with bad offense. He won't be out of the league in 3 years like vesely and Singleton.

In order to be a good player he needs to look to score. 10 points per 36 isn't going to cut it.

My impression is his primary problem on offense is just mental, a lack of aggression. I am assuming it is at least partly, if not mostly, a result of being a young guy in a foreign country. I am not convinced that he lacks skills which was the case with vesely and Singleton.