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McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35?

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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#81 » by WizarDynasty » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:24 am

nate33 wrote:I think McGee has a certain level of fearlessness in some aspects of the game. He certainly isn't shy about trying to throw down a dunk or block a shot in traffic even when he is unsure of where he's going to land. I don't know if he can harness and expand that fearlessness into a toughness that extends into other avenues of the game, but I think it's possible.

The bottom line is that, for now, we don't have any other guy on the roster who has any potential to be a starting center. McGee is all we've got so there's no use arguing about it. I have no problems with looking for another center to replace him - so long as it's a young guy who can grow with Wall. I do think we have higher priorities though. Right now, our PF situation is terrible unless Blatche has a miraculous turnaround.


Having "non tough center" drains the team on any confidence to win battles in the paint. Getting Seraphin is a part of the solution but the fact that he isn't a getting a crash course at the center spot just as john wall is getting a crash course at the point guard spot is a huge problem.

Blatche may not be knocking down his shots but he meets all the qualifications of a starting powerforward. McGee lacks one the most important requirements of a starting center and this requirement is so important that it can demoralize a team if its not present. I think its an interesting concept though of shyness versus toughness. McGee wants to be a wr or r/b but center position is equaivalent to offensive line. You can't be a successful offensive or defensive lineman without being tough. McGee is not going to bring the wizards longterm success if he isn't can win the tough man to man matches inherent at the center position. Javale enjoys the catching touchdown passes like a w/r---he doesn't enjoy knocking a defensive lineman on his ass so that the qb has enough time to throw a touchdown pass to the w/r. Javale doesn't want the role of the offensive lineman but the offensive lineman duties are essential for longterm success.

Our lack of qualified centers on this team is alot more important than a p/f who's shot isn't falling but who is qualfied to play p/f. Javale doesn't not enjoy playing offensive lineman and doing the grunt work needed for others to shine. He wants to shine but his position is a grunt position that i s extremely important to consistent longterm success. That is why the lack of starting center is this team number one problem. Blatche's loss of his shooting stroke is a temporary problem but there is nothing coaches can do to make Javale enjoy battling in the trenches and doing the tough grunt work of a center. There is not way the coaches can make Javale enjoy jostling for position to open up opportunities for others when Javale wants to be the benefactor.

So again, we know that blatche is a finesse p/f---- there is no such thing as a finesse center. You can't be a finesse player if your job is to guard the toughest player on the opposing team each night. Javale considers himself a finesse center. To be honest, i wonder which poster here disagree with me.
That's very troubling when your Center considers himself a finesse center. Let's be honest, if you were to ask Javale in an interview if he was a finesse center or not would he agree or disagree?

the answer to this question--- is the number problem and highest priority to be solved on this team. AGain, if we had an interview tonight and Javale Mcgee answered that question if he considers himself finesse or not...what would his answer be?

If you ask D.JOrdan that question and obviously you guys haven't seen any interviews or watch much film, I guarantee you he wouldn't consider himself a finesse center. I am almost 90 percent certain that Javale would say yes, he considered himself a finesse center.

Now if we went back to all of the stuff i posted about a starting center being the offensive or defensive line of a team and doing all the tough grunt work that enables the success of the skilled players...then you would understand why---even as of today---the center position is our worst problem and even management has been unsuccessful at transforming Java's thinking about how a Center is suppose to think offensively and defensively. A finesse offensive or defensive line in football--- can not be counted on to win a toughness battle. Java's finesse mentality is why we can't win the toughess battles when the game is on the line.

Java's unsureness of where he is going to land---yeah that's definitely a stretch to consider that having a slight ounce of toughness but i highly doubt it. He doesn't love the idea of being tough. Center is a lunch pale grimy position. Java wants no part of the grimy toughness aspect to being a center. There is no solute to the crowd when you set a bonecrushing pick for a team mate, there is no autographing a basketball when you fight for position and hold off two bigmen so that your team mate gets an easy rebound.
Again, I love Javale's shot blocking, I think he has the potential to be great rebounder, but he is always going to drain your team when a tough player gets physical with him and he doesn't fight back which seems to always happen in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line.

And remember, on most teams that we face, the center normally is bigger and stronger than the p/f meaning that Java is expected on a night to night basis to battle against a tough lunch pale bigman. Its much more likely that the other teams powerforward is a finesse p/f like Blatche versus us facing a "finesse" center like Java. there are a few soft centers but most if not all of the elite playoff teams have 270 lbs physically grinding center that waits until the 4th quarter before they turn on the toughness factor with non tough javale and completely demoralize our team as the other 4 starters watch Java get man handled without fight back. AGain, 3 quarter normally go by and when it counts in the 4th quarter, teams strategically surprise us by getting tough with McGee and Java's 4 other team mates get their spirits drained as they watch our starting center show no toughness when the other starting center strangely gets 4th quarter physical.

So what's the scouting report for the wizards... Let the wizards bigman get a comfort zone in first 3 quarters and watch them become demoralized when they watch their starting center not fight back in the 4th quarter. The team gets completely drained when they see just how "non tough" their starting athletic seven footer really is when things get tough.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#82 » by DaRealHibachi » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:16 am

WizarDynasty wrote:AGain, 3 quarter normally go by and when it counts in the 4th quarter, teams strategically surprise us by getting tough with McGee and Java's 4 other team mates get their spirits drained as they watch our starting center show no toughness when the other starting center strangely gets 4th quarter physical


Are you serious??? :lol:

I'm done arguing with you WizD... :wink:
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#83 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:02 pm

So the opponents strategy is to get tough with a guy who isn't generally in the game in the 4th quarter? Wow that's brilliant.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#84 » by pancakes3 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:28 pm

what's a better indicator of success? bowleggedness, lane agility, 2nd-jump ability, or toughness?
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#85 » by WizarDynasty » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:09 pm

pancakes3 wrote:what's a better indicator of success? bowleggedness, lane agility, 2nd-jump ability, or toughness?
Specify the position you need to be educated on please? I know alot of people come to forum for knowledge but after a while, you have to figure things out on your own.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#86 » by WizarDynasty » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:16 pm

pancakes3 wrote:what's a better indicator of success? bowleggedness, lane agility, 2nd-jump ability, or toughness?
Specify the position you need to be educated on please? I know alot of people come to forum for knowledge but after a while, you have to figure things out on your own.
tontoz wrote:So the opponents strategy is to get tough with a guy who isn't generally in the game in the 4th quarter? Wow that's brilliant.


its brilliant to not have an answer for why the "least tough starting center in the league" 'generally isn't int the game in the 4th quarter". i should get paid for this.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#87 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:47 pm

AXL2018 wrote:ur a dumass lol

Repost several thousand times and you can be a "dumass" RealGM, too, AXL2018. It's fun.

:)
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#88 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:40 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what's a better indicator of success? bowleggedness, lane agility, 2nd-jump ability, or toughness?
Specify the position you need to be educated on please? I know alot of people come to forum for knowledge but after a while, you have to figure things out on your own.
tontoz wrote:So the opponents strategy is to get tough with a guy who isn't generally in the game in the 4th quarter? Wow that's brilliant.


its brilliant to not have an answer for why the "least tough starting center in the league" 'generally isn't int the game in the 4th quarter". i should get paid for this.


That wasn't the question genius.

You said that the other team gameplans to try to overpower McGee in the 4th quarter which makes no sense because McGee frequently isn't in the game in the 4th quarter. Why would they gameplan for someone who isn't in the game? :lol:

Nice try on the subject change to make yourself look less foolish but it isn't working. Interestingly enough it was Blatche at center when they had their big 4th quarter meltdown against the Sixers and it is Blatche that has consistently been the worst player in the rotation lately.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#89 » by DaRealHibachi » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:51 pm

tontoz wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what's a better indicator of success? bowleggedness, lane agility, 2nd-jump ability, or toughness?
Specify the position you need to be educated on please? I know alot of people come to forum for knowledge but after a while, you have to figure things out on your own.
tontoz wrote:So the opponents strategy is to get tough with a guy who isn't generally in the game in the 4th quarter? Wow that's brilliant.


its brilliant to not have an answer for why the "least tough starting center in the league" 'generally isn't int the game in the 4th quarter". i should get paid for this.


That wasn't the question genius.

You said that the other team gameplans to try to overpower McGee in the 4th quarter which makes no sense because McGee frequently isn't in the game in the 4th quarter. Why would they gameplan for someone who isn't in the game? :lol:

Nice try on the subject change to make yourself look less foolish but it isn't working. Interestingly enough it was Blatche at center when they had their big 4th quarter meltdown against the Sixers and it is Blatche that has consistently been the worst player in the rotation lately.


:lol:

I can't wait to see this... 8-)

*grabs some popcorn*
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#90 » by Silvie Lysandra » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:27 pm

I disagree with some of the logic WD uses, but agree with the conclusion - Javale McGee is not, and is likely never going to become, a legitimate NBA starting center on a contending team. Will he make spectacular plays at times? Yeah. Will he pull down a lot of boards from time to time? Sure. But WD has McGee's mindset pegged to a T - he's not a guy who will go out and do the intangible non-stat-sheet center things - setting picks, boxing out hard, playing tough post D - that centers on winning teams do. The athleticism, the length, etc, are icing on the cake - but the cake is only half-done to begin with.

You want to see a championship-level starting C that doesn't have overwhelming talent? Look at Kendrick Perkins. Listed at 6'10, but really more like 6'9 in shoes. 9'4 standing reach, good but not great. Not overwhelming height or athleticism, but is tough, strong, and does the little things McGee doesn't like to do - tough D, tough picks, boxing out, etc.

Do I hope McGee can become a truly tough center? Yes. Does he now make a positive impact in games? Yes. But WD is right when he says that your center needs to be tough to be good in the playoffs. Look at the Celtics. Look at those Pistons teams this decade (even though Flip is wrong on a lot, Flip is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to drum fundamental center play into McGee until it hurts) . Look at the Lakers (who lost to the Celtics because their bigs were soft finesse players, and had to toughen up to beat the Magic and Celtics the next two years)

I won't say we should have drafted DeAndre Jordan, but I will say McGee right now is lacking the mentality to start at C for a contending team. The good news is that we're so far from contending that he still has time to learn that mentality.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#91 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:36 pm

I want to see Javale be a Larry Nance / Tyson Chandler/ Pau Gasol in about five years. He's post moves and a jumper away from being a long four. Seems he could play PF some of the time.

I am curious to see McGee with Seraphin.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#92 » by Silvie Lysandra » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:37 pm

I think Blatche could have been a Pau Gasol; he doesn't seem to like playing inside though.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#93 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:59 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:I disagree with some of the logic WD uses, but agree with the conclusion - Javale McGee is not, and is likely never going to become, a legitimate NBA starting center on a contending team.

I agree that he isn't there now, but I'm not ready to concede that he'll never reach that level. I think Camby or Chandler could potentially be a center on a championship team. I see no physical reason why McGee can't be as good, or even better than those guys. He'll need to get stronger, and I think he will as he matures physically.

I think Flip has already disabused McGee of the notion that he some kind of really tall small forward. That was Step One. Flip has gotten McGee to buy into the idea that he must play center if he is going to succeed at this level. With McGee accepting this, I think the next logical step is for McGee to decide that he doesn't like get pushed around by other centers. I think that's setting in too. I expect McGee to add a lot of strength this offseason.

The final step will be for McGee to fully understand that making the boring, fundamentally sound play (like boxing out the opposition so your own small forward can actually grab the defensive board) is better than making the unnecessary highlight reel play. It remains to be seen whether he'll ever truly accept that, but it'll probably get better with maturity.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#94 » by dobrojim » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:58 am

GilArenas88 wrote:This whole thread is an embodiment of what's wrong with this country: nobody has an ounce of patience.


bravo
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#95 » by verbal8 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:10 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:I won't say we should have drafted DeAndre Jordan, but I will say McGee right now is lacking the mentality to start at C for a contending team. The good news is that we're so far from contending that he still has time to learn that mentality.

If there was a way to get DeAndre Jordan without giving up McGee or Blatche I think I would be in support of it. I think Mcgee/Jordan could play some twin towers and Jordan could compliment Blatche well.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#96 » by no D in Hibachi » Sun Feb 5, 2012 2:36 am

What say you now??
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#97 » by queridiculo » Sun Feb 5, 2012 2:44 am

All world potential 2 cent basketball brain, typical Ernie pick.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#98 » by 7-Day Dray » Sun Feb 5, 2012 3:34 am

He was showing a lot of improvement early in the season, but he's been regressing each game recently, and it's been mostly from upstairs.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#99 » by hype_2004 » Sun Feb 5, 2012 8:56 am

Deandre punked him up big-time,lol Deandre is bigger, stronger, quicker than Macgee def the wrong pick by Grunfeld.
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Re: McGee #17 wrong Pick look at D.Jordan#35? 

Post#100 » by DaRealHibachi » Sun Feb 5, 2012 10:16 am

McGee was the way better pick then, hindsight is 20/20...

Both are very average players though...
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