Nothing Thread--only one opinion counts-LOCK ME

[WizarDynasty]

Cousin is definitely the better rookie. It might be even start to look like Pau Gasol compared to kwame brown when its all said and done. Cousins is a dominant post player in his first year and bigmen normally take the longest to develop and he already there.

Wall can't even hit a jumpshot, and can't even change his speed, these are basic skills of a point guard. Wall is much more a shooting guard that can shoot than he is a point guard. Gilbert 2.0 without the jumpshot, strength, and finishing ability in traffic. he has more leadership skills...will i take an above average post physical post player semi nutcase or a non skilled quick athlete with leadership skills and poor on ball defense is what it boils down too.

[B-easy]

Wall is better and will be better in the future. Nuff said.

[Hoopalotta]

Cousin is definitely the better rookie. It might be even start to look like Pau Gasol compared to kwame brown when its all said and done. Cousins is a dominant post player in his first year and bigmen normally take the longest to develop and he already there.

Wall can't even hit a jumpshot, and can't even change his speed, these are basic skills of a point guard. Wall is much more a shooting guard that can shoot than he is a point guard. Gilbert 2.0 without the jumpshot, strength, and finishing ability in traffic. he has more leadership skills...will i take an above average post physical post player semi nutcase or a non skilled quick athlete with leadership skills and poor on ball defense is what it boils down too.

Rather ironic seeing this considering I just watched Cousins airball four post up possessions in a row during a 7-20 shooting night with 4 turnovers. Clyde and the Nick's play by play guy were openly aghast with him and that was before Cousins started pouting and fussing on the bench to where 'Cisco Garcia had to come over and give the big brother speech.

I've seen maybe 8 quarters of Cousins this year with him splitting time with Dalembert and I would not touch the dude. His personality is AWFUL, he has very little defensive potential and even his offense is compromised by lots of bad habits. I think he can turn into a nice post scorer, but I don't see him being a high minute player, on a team that wins a particularly large number of games or staying with one team for very long.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Every time I've watched Cousins play this year, all I've seen is an Eddy Curry clone. Maybe not skill set wise, but attitude wise. Cousins has a higher chance of being an overweight slob in a few years rather than a bull dozing center.

A rookie John Wall is averaging 16 points and 9 assists with a largely pathetic supporting cast. If this is his lowest ceiling then I don't think we have to worry about a Kwame/Gasol situation.

[hands11]

Wall is better and will be better in the future. Nuff said.

I still have some concerns as to what kind of player he wants to become.

Derrick Rose/Gil ?
Nashish/Rondo/CP/Jason Kidd

Pure PG or SG/PG

No doubt he can rack up the dimes at an amazing rate. Add a reliable mid range shot, 3 range later, great D, and don't over shoot ( higher shooter percentage ) and I think Wall is a great player for years to come. He doesn't seem like a head case now so thats why I don't understand why he would even want to talk to LeDouche who is obviously a head case. One reason Im glad Gil is gone and replace by Lewis. Who is around this kid does matter.

1) Set up your teammates and manage the game. Speed and Momentum.
2) Feed the hot hand
3) Move the defense. If your shot isn't going, close the space with the dribble
4) Drive when it is open and there isn't a hot hand
5) Secure the inbound pass ( this should be first I guess. Can't believe I needed to write that )

I actually like where his numbers are right now both pts and dimes. If he just played better D and shot less/better shots so he had a higher percentage, he would be doing awesome.

I mean do you want the next Derrick Rose or the next Nash with better hops.

Look at the first year numbers of the best PGs currently in the league.


Rondohttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3026 In yr 5
Nash http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=592
CP http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2779
DW http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2798
Felton http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2798
Wall http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=4237

Wall is off to a great start when you compare him to the above who all have years of experience. He is shooting a little to much by about 3 a game. If he could get the FG% up, he would be looking awesome for pts and dimes. As for dimes alone, that is some good company just with what he is doing right now, and this is his rookie year.

[B-easy]

I'd rather have wall become a Wade type of player than a pass first PG. Why? Becuase all the supetstars in the league are all excellent scorers. But does wall have the ability to be that good? I think so, but i've heard in many interviews that he says he's a pass first point guard who will take about 15 shots a game.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Cousin is definitely the better rookie...

Wall can't even hit a jumpshot, and can't even change his speed, these are basic skills of a point guard. Wall is much more a shooting guard that can shoot than he is a point guard. Gilbert 2.0 without the jumpshot, strength, and finishing ability in traffic. he has more leadership skills...will i take an above average post physical post player semi nutcase or a non skilled quick athlete with leadership skills and poor on ball defense is what it boils down too.

Rather ironic seeing this considering I just watched Cousins airball four post up possessions in a row during a 7-20 shooting night with 4 turnovers. Clyde and the Nick's play by play guy were openly aghast with him and that was before Cousins started pouting and fussing on the bench to where 'Cisco Garcia had to come over and give the big brother speech.

I've seen maybe 8 quarters of Cousins this year with him splitting time with Dalembert and I would not touch the dude. His personality is AWFUL, he has very little defensive potential and even his offense is compromised by lots of bad habits. I think he can turn into a nice post scorer, but I don't see him being a high minute player, on a team that wins a particularly large number of games or staying with one team for very long.

To quote the late Paul Harvey, "And now, the rest of the story."....

Cousins did go 7-20 with 4 turnovers.

Amare shot 6-22
Felton shot 2-15
The Kings won in New York, at Madison Square Garden, 93-83.


Aside from his poor shooting and turnovers, Cousins had 16 points. 10 rebounds, 1 steal, 3 blocks, 5 fouls; and finished +8 in 23 action-packed.

[Hoopalotta]

Cousin is definitely the better rookie...

Wall can't even hit a jumpshot, and can't even change his speed, these are basic skills of a point guard. Wall is much more a shooting guard that can shoot than he is a point guard. Gilbert 2.0 without the jumpshot, strength, and finishing ability in traffic. he has more leadership skills...will i take an above average post physical post player semi nutcase or a non skilled quick athlete with leadership skills and poor on ball defense is what it boils down too.

Rather ironic seeing this considering I just watched Cousins airball four post up possessions in a row during a 7-20 shooting night with 4 turnovers. Clyde and the Nick's play by play guy were openly aghast with him and that was before Cousins started pouting and fussing on the bench to where 'Cisco Garcia had to come over and give the big brother speech.

I've seen maybe 8 quarters of Cousins this year with him splitting time with Dalembert and I would not touch the dude. His personality is AWFUL, he has very little defensive potential and even his offense is compromised by lots of bad habits. I think he can turn into a nice post scorer, but I don't see him being a high minute player, on a team that wins a particularly large number of games or staying with one team for very long.

To quote the late Paul Harvey, "And now, the rest of the story."....

Cousins did go 7-20 with 4 turnovers.

Amare shot 6-22
Felton shot 2-15
The Kings won in New York, at Madison Square Garden, 93-83.


Aside from his poor shooting and turnovers, Cousins had 16 points. 10 rebounds, 1 steal, 3 blocks, 5 fouls; and finished +8 in 23 action-packed.

Yeah, except that I actually watched the game.

Edit --> Ok, here's posts from the Knicks game thread:

cousins is a mess

i know lol

The Knicks Best player Cousins goes to the Bench

He's crying!!! Lmao!!

Cousins sucks lmaoooo

Lmao at Cousins

cousins lol

Cousins is an emotionally clumsy big Benoit Benjamin pouty doofus clutz

it's like zach and curry had a kid with mental health issues, then took a **** on him

Cousins calmed himself down yet?

We needto keep Cousins in the game

Worth noting that I did not scroll over any positive posts on Cousins while fishing for those.

But the only reason I bring it up is because I keep hearing how we need to or should have gone after Cousins from people who I don't think have seen much of him and are assuming a lot of positives. I wouldn't bother cutting in if it weren't for that, but in no way do I want to see the Wizards go after him any time soon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Last season it was hard to come by a single positive comment about McGee in this forum.

I didn't watch the Kings/Knicks game. I trust that you and those Knick fans are all thoroughly unimpressed with what you saw in Cousins. I accept everyone's opinion and perception as real and probably valid, Hoopalotta.

I base my opinion on the same things that allowed me to say this time last season Cousins would be a better rookie than Wall. At the time, most thought it was an absurd prediction. Now, it is up for grabs as to which player is having the better rookie season.

NBA.com's T-Mobile Rookie Ladder currently rates Cousins ahead of Wall.

It's not etched in stone that Wall won't significantly improve this season. He might. Likewise, I could see some other rookie bigs gaining and perhaps overtaking Cousins. Greg Monroe, Derrick Favors, Ed Davis might all be playing well by the end of this season.

So could Cousins--his coaching staff is letting him take a three at the end of a game. He's attempting twenty shots--in twenty-three minutes at MSG--in a game his team wins. If you consider that and the first post in this thread (stating how Westphal, Casspi, and Carril feel about Demarcus) it shows his coaches already trust his abilities on the court.

I see Cousins as a highly-skilled, aggressive big man who is at at the same time a petulant, immature, volatile, brooding twenty-year old who by NBA standards is overweight. Anyone observant can read his emotions because Cousins is like a baby in expressing himself.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Despite the negatives, I see Cousins as a player who if he is receptive to counseling as Artest is, and if he has a will to prepare his body will become an all star. The kid plays hard and he is a very smart player.

[Induveca]

They are both major talents......but that spin move Cousins pulled off on McGee for a dunk sticks in my mind. If he can do that at 20 off of talent/unrefined footwork.....the kid will be dominant. A lot of you only see a jerk, while I agree all of his on court transgressions seem to result from being extremely competitive.

Good sign IMO. He is 20 years old, people change drastically between 20-24. I can state despite working 50 hour weeks at 20 I was still a kid at heart prone to childish mistakes. Not an excuse, just amazing how people are judging Cousins like he is a finished product mentally after 4 months of NBA exposure.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If he were a female singer Cousins would be considered a diva. Over-the-top and perhaps with baggage, but the talent is undeniable.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I'd been out of the country for four or five games prior to the Wolves game.

So, I have the perspective of time lapse photography and it appears fairly obvious that Wall's knee has gotten worse. His gait is terrible at this point.

Hear me roar o masters of the wiz medical team- "sit him now!"

Nothing good can come of him playing right now and much bad could.

He should be doing nothing but lifting and non impact excercises.

Let the damn thing heal and strengthen all corresponding muscles so that this doesn't become chronic and debilitating.

Gah! I can hardly stand this franchise anymore.

[DCZards]

I base my opinion on the same things that allowed me to say this time last season Cousins would be a better rookie than Wall. At the time, most thought it was an absurd prediction. Now, it is up for grabs as to which player is having the better rookie season.

NBA.com's T-Mobile Rookie Ladder currently rates Cousins ahead of Wall.

CCJ, I agree a great deal with what you say about Cousins. He has the potential to be a superstar with his size, strengths and smarts, although I think his lack of foot speed and athleticism will limit his potential.

But I absolutely hate it when you pull out those so-called rookie rankings as if they mean something. These "rankings" have Gary Neal rated ahead of Monroe, Ed Davis, Favors and E. Turner. While Neal has been a nice surprise (best thing is that he's from Towson U. outside B'More), no GM in his right mind is going to take Neal over Monroe, Favors, Davis or Turner.

Those same rankings have Manny Harris ranked over Turner, Favors and Ed Davis.

I personally believe the top three players in last year's draft class are Wall, Favors and Ed Davis. But it will take 2-3 years to know that for sure. "Instant" rankings like those at the link you posted are little more than "promotional gimmicks" designed to get people to visit a certain webpage.

[Kanyewest]

I tend to agree with my friend's assessment who said that Cousins is as talented as anyone out of the draft but Cousins needs a good coach to eliminate his bad habits. Time will tell but I don't regret the Wizards taking Wall- although some teams like Philly may have wished they had taken Cousins.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I base my opinion on the same things that allowed me to say this time last season Cousins would be a better rookie than Wall. At the time, most thought it was an absurd prediction. Now, it is up for grabs as to which player is having the better rookie season.

NBA.com's T-Mobile Rookie Ladder currently rates Cousins ahead of Wall.

CCJ, I agree a great deal with what you say about Cousins. He has the potential to be a superstar with his size, strengths and smarts, although I think his lack of foot speed and athleticism will limit his potential.

But I absolutely hate it when you pull out those so-called rookie rankings as if they mean something. These "rankings" have Gary Neal rated ahead of Monroe, Ed Davis, Favors and E. Turner. While Neal has been a nice surprise (best thing is that he's from Towson U. outside B'More), no GM in his right mind is going to take Neal over Monroe, Favors, Davis or Turner.

Those same rankings have Manny Harris ranked over Turner, Favors and Ed Davis.

I personally believe the top three players in last year's draft class are Wall, Favors and Ed Davis. But it will take 2-3 years to know that for sure. "Instant" rankings like those at the link you posted are little more than "promotional gimmicks" designed to get people to visit a certain webpage.

Guess what, DCZ?

I agree!

Favors is just really young but he's a beast. Davis is coming off injury but he's got the total game. Offense, defense, athleticism .... Davis is great. Wall, I know about his near-triple doubles. He's hurt physically and his confidence is down ... and Flip's putting a lot on him. I think Wall's confidence is SHOT, but that he's a physical freak and is the most talented guard.

HOWEVER, Manny Harris and Jordan Crawford can flat out ball, too. Wall's not so great that he's the best by far. In fact, I bet Harris and Crawford are much better defenders than Wall. I don't count Neal as a rookie because he's been great overseas. Fields is solid but not spectacular. Very good rebounder and a reliable scorer who is a smart player, but he's no superstar.

DCZ, I believe you're right about the three best. I'm just having TOO MUCH FUN throwing the T-Mobile rookie rankings out there because I remember how many flames my posts about Cousins took a while back. Same as what I said about a lot of players. (Korver, Marques Daniels, Paul Millsap, DeJuan Blair, Carlos Boozer come to mind but there's been a lot of lesser players). My comments about Cousins were met with a whole lot of disagreement.

DCZards, the only thing NBA.com's Rookie Ladder is is a subjective snapshot. Cousins in a lot of people's eyes is better than Wall as a rookie. IF HE GETS IN SHAPE MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY, even with what you call a lack of foot speed and what I see as low/slow hops; Cousins can become a beast. I think he's probably a Kevin Love/Moses Malone type player.

But the other guys you mentioned I would LOVE to have on the Wizards. Favors is long and quick and can jump. Davis is intense and will score.

The other guy that's impressive to me as a rookie is Greg Monroe. Like Cousins, he's more basketball player than athlete. I rate Wall, Favors, and Davis as freaks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I tend to agree with my friend's assessment who said that Cousins is as talented as anyone out of the draft but Cousins needs a good coach to eliminate his bad habits. Time will tell but I don't regret the Wizards taking Wall- although some teams like Philly may have wished they had taken Cousins.

I was just as wrong as Philly about Turner. I just KNEW that guy could play. I learned something: Turner turned out to be nowhere near as good as Wall, the very same way Terence Williams turned out nowhere near as good as Tyreke Evans. My bias toward grinders and rebounders is something I'm modifying. Athletes just do better in the NBA. Explosive quicks and hops translate in the NBA better than in the NCAA.

Turner was such a dominating rebounder and good scorer in the NCAA. I am SHOCKED that he's so ineffective. I bet almost anything that my biggest miss --ever-- Morris Almond is better than Turner.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bump

Wall is hurt and I think needs some time away from the game. Already I've said he's the best physical talent from this past draft. Although Wall was East rookie of the month I see his game and attitude regressing, due to his injuries and the losing.

OTOH Demarcus Cousins seems to be figuring out the NBA game really fast. He's starting to routinely put up 20/10 games and his FG and FT shooting are getting better as the season moves on. If he's this good at 20, I believe he's got superstar potential.

Cousins and Greg Monroe are young guys but they play like old school, versatile big men of the past.

[AceDegenerate]

I think Wall's attitude could be a legitimate problem in the future. It's real easy to be Mr. Humble when everything is going your way, however with this franchise he is going to be pushed to his limits.

[nate33]

I think Wall's attitude could be a legitimate problem in the future. It's real easy to be Mr. Humble when everything is going your way, however with this franchise he is going to be pushed to his limits.

It's a possibility.

On the other hand, these are the kinds of times that build character. If Wall gets through this season and the team shows some improvement thereafter, it'll only make him stronger mentally. If we ever get away from being perennial losers, Wall sure as hell won't want to go back.