2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

[fishercob]

Morris as his #3 college player isn't so surprising, but predicting stardom and 18-22 ppg is something I certainly havent seen elsewhere.

[nate33]

Morris strikes me as a Michael Beasley/Antawn Jamison type of player. It wouldn't surprise me if he did indeed end up scoring 18-22 a game, and that's usually enough to earn the "star" label. The problem for him is at the other end of the floor. I don't know if he can defend either forward position.

[TGW]

Marcus is closer to a 6'9 version of Caron Butler than Jamison/Beasley. If we're picking #5 - #7, I would have no problem picking him. He can do a little bit of everything, and his hard-nosed demeanor would be a godsend on a team like this. I could definitely see him averaging 20/6 with his offensive skillset.

If we somehow ended up with some combination of Marcus, D. Williams, Kanter, Jordan Williams, or even Markieff, I wouldn't be mad. All of these guys are going to be in the league for a long time.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Its so hard to get a good feel for Vesely based on video, as everyone and their mother focuses on his dunking. I've seen maybe a half dozen jumpers total.

Does 42% from the arc (on only 13 of 31 shots) mean he's got a decent enough shot to build upon? Maybe never Dirk level, but at least KG range??
I've heard rumors he has the "Potential" to be an elite defender, but also heard he struggles when he's iso'd against.

What are his measurables compared to Durant? While he'll never be the shooter Durant is, maybe he could be a poor man's Durant in other areas?

He's not Kanter in terms of unknowns, but by golly I hate trying to draw conclusions based on grainy internet vids.

[theboomking]

He's not Kanter in terms of unknowns, but by golly I hate trying to draw conclusions based on grainy internet vids.

Really? Vesely is so much more an unknown than Kanter, it isn't even funny. We've seen Kanter play H.S. basketball in the U.S., dominate the current crop of collegiate freshman in head to head play, and dominate practices at Kentucky for a full season. Do you really think JWall potentially wants us to take Kanter at 1st overall, ahead of Derrick Williams, because he knows nothing about him?

[gesa2]

I think Thorpe is pretty reliable with talent evaluation for players he hasn't trained himself, but he pumps his own pretty hard. I've seen him tout Corey Brewer and Ji for their offense too, if that tell you anything.

[Ruzious]

Its so hard to get a good feel for Vesely based on video, as everyone and their mother focuses on his dunking. I've seen maybe a half dozen jumpers total.

Does 42% from the arc (on only 13 of 31 shots) mean he's got a decent enough shot to build upon? Maybe never Dirk level, but at least KG range??I've heard rumors he has the "Potential" to be an elite defender, but also heard he struggles when he's iso'd against.

What are his measurables compared to Durant? While he'll never be the shooter Durant is, maybe he could be a poor man's Durant in other areas?

He's not Kanter in terms of unknowns, but by golly I hate trying to draw conclusions based on grainy internet vids.

NBTW, lol. Why would you use a 21 game sample size rather than the whole season? 13 of 31 was after his first 21 games. For the season, he was 19 of 63 in 40 games. That's 30%. Playing 25 minutes a game, he averaged making almost half a 3 pointer per game. To assume he's going to be an effective 3 point shooter in the NBA is making a huge leap, imo. Comparing him in any facet of the game to guys like KG, Dirk, and Durant is like comparing LaBradford Smith to Michael Jordan.

[Ruzious]

Marcus is closer to a 6'9 version of Caron Butler than Jamison/Beasley. If we're picking #5 - #7, I would have no problem picking him. He can do a little bit of everything, and his hard-nosed demeanor would be a godsend on a team like this. I could definitely see him averaging 20/6 with his offensive skillset.

If we somehow ended up with some combination of Marcus, D. Williams, Kanter, Jordan Williams, or even Markieff, I wouldn't be mad. All of these guys are going to be in the league for a long time.

I wouldn't bet against Marcus making it big in the NBA - or being able to play team defense. He's got a super high BBIQ. We haven't seen all his skills, because he's been asked to play mostly inside. But he has flashed the ability to drive to the hoop and create shots. Hearing him and his brother interviewed the other day, Marcus is better shooting off the dribble (while Keif is strictly a knockdown catch and shoot guy). To me, the key for Marcus is showing he can do both - particularly be automatic on the catch and shoot with a quick release. Supposedly, he's been doing it.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Its so hard to get a good feel for Vesely based on video, as everyone and their mother focuses on his dunking. I've seen maybe a half dozen jumpers total.

Does 42% from the arc (on only 13 of 31 shots) mean he's got a decent enough shot to build upon? Maybe never Dirk level, but at least KG range??I've heard rumors he has the "Potential" to be an elite defender, but also heard he struggles when he's iso'd against.

What are his measurables compared to Durant? While he'll never be the shooter Durant is, maybe he could be a poor man's Durant in other areas?

He's not Kanter in terms of unknowns, but by golly I hate trying to draw conclusions based on grainy internet vids.

NBTW, lol. Why would you use a 21 game sample size rather than the whole season? 13 of 31 was after his first 21 games. For the season, he was 19 of 63 in 40 games. That's 30%. Playing 25 minutes a game, he averaged making almost half a 3 pointer per game. To assume he's going to be an effective 3 point shooter in the NBA is making a huge leap, imo. Comparing him in any facet of the game to guys like KG, Dirk, and Durant is like comparing LaBradford Smith to Michael Jordan.

LOL, why would I use stats from 21 games? Oooooh, because I was reading a post on him that was well outdated on Draftexpress .... that's what I get for posting when I should be working.

So thanks for the stats and breakdown. In terms of KG I was merely comparing range on their J's. In your opinion are we talking Ared Effries being a better comparison???

And Boomking, who exactly has seen Kanter play HS basketball and dominate Kentucky's practices? The only tape I've seen from Kentucky practices is him hitting baby hooks and J's against imaginary defenders. And I've heard his stats from high school but thats it. There's tape of Vesely to be had within a couple clicks on the internet. Kanter, outside of the Hoop Summit, not so much... But I could be overlooking something, let me know

[TGW]

I wouldn't bet against Marcus making it big in the NBA - or being able to play team defense. He's got a super high BBIQ. We haven't seen all his skills, because he's been asked to play mostly inside. But he has flashed the ability to drive to the hoop and create shots. Hearing him and his brother interviewed the other day, Marcus is better shooting off the dribble (while Keif is strictly a knockdown catch and shoot guy). To me, the key for Marcus is showing he can do both - particularly be automatic on the catch and shoot with a quick release. Supposedly, he's been doing it.

Yep...100% agree.

The question is, how high would you be willing to take him? Is #4 too high?

[Illuminaire]

All I want for Christmas is a two-way big. So if we're taking Marcus, he better be able to play some friggin' defense.

[Ruzious]

Its so hard to get a good feel for Vesely based on video, as everyone and their mother focuses on his dunking. I've seen maybe a half dozen jumpers total.

Does 42% from the arc (on only 13 of 31 shots) mean he's got a decent enough shot to build upon? Maybe never Dirk level, but at least KG range??I've heard rumors he has the "Potential" to be an elite defender, but also heard he struggles when he's iso'd against.

What are his measurables compared to Durant? While he'll never be the shooter Durant is, maybe he could be a poor man's Durant in other areas?

He's not Kanter in terms of unknowns, but by golly I hate trying to draw conclusions based on grainy internet vids.

NBTW, lol. Why would you use a 21 game sample size rather than the whole season? 13 of 31 was after his first 21 games. For the season, he was 19 of 63 in 40 games. That's 30%. Playing 25 minutes a game, he averaged making almost half a 3 pointer per game. To assume he's going to be an effective 3 point shooter in the NBA is making a huge leap, imo. Comparing him in any facet of the game to guys like KG, Dirk, and Durant is like comparing LaBradford Smith to Michael Jordan.

LOL, why would I use stats from 21 games? Oooooh, because I was reading a post on him that was well outdated on Draftexpress .... that's what I get for posting when I should be working.

So thanks for the stats and breakdown. In terms of KG I was merely comparing range on their J's. In your opinion are we talking Ared Effries being a better comparison???

And Boomking, who exactly has seen Kanter play HS basketball and dominate Kentucky's practices? The only tape I've seen from Kentucky practices is him hitting baby hooks and J's against imaginary defenders. And I've heard his stats from high school but thats it. There's tape of Vesely to be had within a couple clicks on the internet. Kanter, outside of the Hoop Summit, not so much... But I could be overlooking something, let me know

Exactly. Ared is the comparison I've used for Vesely. He can dunk with one hand, too. Oooh ahhh. I just haven't seen anything other than dunking that he does well. People are so impressed that he's "active". Hey, I can run around aimlessly without being productive just as well as he can. I wouldn't be dwelling on him if it wasn't for being petrified that he could be the Zards pick. Another negative watching him that I haven't heard people mention - he really does have bad hands - unlike Kanter. I can already picture myself screaming at him - catch the damn ball Ared Vesely! - as a mediocre opponent takes it out of his grasp and runs him over for a 3 point play. The camera pans to the opponents' bench where everyone is laughing.

[Ruzious]

All I want for Christmas is a two-way big. So if we're taking Marcus, he better be able to play some friggin' defense.

He's not going to be a big; he's going to be a 3 who might occasionally play 4, imo. Keif will be a big.

[Ruzious]

I wouldn't bet against Marcus making it big in the NBA - or being able to play team defense. He's got a super high BBIQ. We haven't seen all his skills, because he's been asked to play mostly inside. But he has flashed the ability to drive to the hoop and create shots. Hearing him and his brother interviewed the other day, Marcus is better shooting off the dribble (while Keif is strictly a knockdown catch and shoot guy). To me, the key for Marcus is showing he can do both - particularly be automatic on the catch and shoot with a quick release. Supposedly, he's been doing it.

Yep...100% agree.

The question is, how high would you be willing to take him? Is #4 too high?

4 is definitely too high. I think they could trade down for him and be pretty sure he'll be there past 5, at least. Or trade the Wiz pix with Utah's and get both Morris'.

[fishercob]

And Boomking, who exactly has seen Kanter play HS basketball and dominate Kentucky's practices? The only tape I've seen from Kentucky practices is him hitting baby hooks and J's against imaginary defenders. And I've heard his stats from high school but thats it. There's tape of Vesely to be had within a couple clicks on the internet. Kanter, outside of the Hoop Summit, not so much... But I could be overlooking something, let me know

Check the second draft thread (linked on page one of this thread). From page 90 or 91 through 95 or 96 there are a few other Kanter vids:

1) Highlights from Stoneridge Prep, basketball factory in CA where he played his senior year of HS
2) Highlights from workouts with Tim Grover last week in Chicago

We don't have footage of him dominating at UK, but word is he got busy against Nazi Mohammed when he came back to campus.

[fishercob]

From Chad Ford's most recent draft blog, re Kanter:

He still might have a chance to go No. 1 overall if the Washington Wizards get the No. 1 pick. While we currently have them taking Derrick Williams No. 1 in our Mock Draft Lottery, a well-placed source said Kanter would be in the conversation. The Detroit Pistons and the Golden State Warriors also have needs that could place Kanter in the mix. But after Kyrie Irving and Williams are off the table, I'm not sure there's a player with more upside in this Draft

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?nam ... id=6555985

[Illuminaire]

All I want for Christmas is a two-way big. So if we're taking Marcus, he better be able to play some friggin' defense.

He's not going to be a big; he's going to be a 3 who might occasionally play 4, imo. Keif will be a big.

I'm very skeptical of his ability to play SF, Ruz. I don't know if he has the footspeed or handles to play the position full time, and I know he doesn't have the length or explosion to play PF against quality opposition.

He seems like the classic bad-tweener defensively. Meh.

[Ruzious]

All I want for Christmas is a two-way big. So if we're taking Marcus, he better be able to play some friggin' defense.

He's not going to be a big; he's going to be a 3 who might occasionally play 4, imo. Keif will be a big.

I'm very skeptical of his ability to play SF, Ruz. I don't know if he has the footspeed or handles to play the position full time, and I know he doesn't have the length or explosion to play PF against quality opposition.

He seems like the classic bad-tweener defensively. Meh.

Very valid questionmarks - as its hard to tell because he hasn't played the position, and he's bulky for a 3. I tend to err by giving the bene of the doubt to the high BBIQ player who plays hard.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Check the second draft thread (linked on page one of this thread). From page 90 or 91 through 95 or 96 there are a few other Kanter vids:

1) Highlights from Stoneridge Prep, basketball factory in CA where he played his senior year of HS
2) Highlights from workouts with Tim Grover last week in Chicago

We don't have footage of him dominating at UK, but word is he got busy against Nazi Mohammed when he came back to campus.

Good stuff. Thanks fish. That's why I keep coming back to these parts, especially this time of year!
(tho I've seen the Tim Grover vid, and there's something very Yi-esque about vid of a guy making moves alone in the gym... it was quality vid though for sure, a whole lot to see)
As for Kanter #1 if we have the pick, I wonder how much pull Wall's quote about Kanter this past week has to do with that?

[thinker07]

I think the Wall comments on Wash Post Live are more throwaway lines than anything else.

By all accounts I would imagine that EG wants very close to the exact same thing that Wall wants - good running mates for Wall. Guys that will compete and put forth effort every night and who can help spread the floor by being able to shoot and finish at a relatively high percentage.