Official Trade Thread XVII: 6/29/11 - 1/20 /12

[Ruzious]

No, Curry's teammate Monta Ellis is the worst defensive guard in the league. And it's amazing how Dallas won considering they had Jason Kidd (can't keep anyone in front of him anymore), Juan Barea (all of 5-9 or 5-10) and Jason Terry (a 6-2 shooting guard w/o much of a defensive rep) getting most of the minutes.

Basically, you can hide a poor defending guard in the right system. Curry would be great for this team offensively and with Wall being a legit 6-4 with 2-guard length, we could overcome Curry's defensive deficiencies.

What you can't overcome is a poor defender at the PF/C position. A guy like Antawn Jamison cannot be hidden. A guy like Javale McGee, until he started to make the right rotations, couldn't be hidden.

Curry is certainly one of the worst defenders in the game, and allowing guards dribble penetration causes huge defensive problems for the entire team. Notice GS won a lot more games with Baron Davis teaming with Ellis than they won with Curry teaming with Ellis. I don't think adding Curry would be much of a help for the Wiz and certainly wouldn't come close to being cost effective.

Ok, we know your Curry hate is borderline irrational but again Curry wasn't even the worst defending guard on his team. And maybe the Warriors current struggles have more to do with the fact that Dorrell Wright was pretty much their third best player last year as opposed to those Don Nelson lead years of moderate success which featured a much deeper roster (B. Davis, J. Richardson, S.Jackson, a healthy Biedrins who was actually playing very well at that time, etc).

And you ignored my point about Dallas. Kidd, Terry & Barea aren't very good individual defenders but if you have a solid scheme, coaching and length in the low post to protect the paint you can be quite successful.

Bull... shyt. Magette put up just as good numbers as Jackson - actually better, and Richardson wasn't even on that 2007-2008 team that won 48 games. Biedrins being healthy was the only significant difference, and most people have always poopooed him. And STOP the f'n BS about me hating Curry. Didn't we f'n just go over that a few days ago god dammit!

I didn't even read your comments about Kidd, Terry, and Barea - but you would have to have been blind not to see the great defense Kidd played in the playoffs - particularly in the last 2 playoff series. Nobody has ever done as good a job on Durant as he did. Kidd did practically nothing offensively against Miami except hit the occasional wide open 3. Same with Stevenson. They played because they play defense and hit open 3's - period, and Dallas would have had no chance without them. And guess what - there aren't coaches like Rick Carlysle. He's a genius. The Wiz most likely aren't going to have a coach anytime in our lifetime that can compare to him.

[Ruzious]

Stephen Curry is literally the worst defensive guard in the league. Putting him at the 2 probably means our backcourt gives up 50 points a night.

I'll pass on that one.

I tend to agree. Curry is an exceptional offensive player, but alongside Wall, I think we only need to find a decent offensive player who is an exceptional spot up shooter and a solid defender. If Wall can defend the SG position, I think we might be just as successful with somebody like Daniel Gibson instead of Curry. Gibson can nail 3's like nobody's business and he plays much better D than Curry. Don't get me wrong, Curry is a much better overall offensive player than Gibson; he can create his own shot with ease and has better court vision, but those advantages won't be maximized alongside Wall. I'd rather have Gibson's defense while using the resources saved to bolster our frontcourt.

Basically, Gibson is a younger version of Derrick Fisher - somewhat useless as a pure PG, but excellent as a SG in a PG's body playing alongside an elite ballhandling big guard.

I can't even believe this is up for debate. Curry is a much better shooter than Gibson. It's not even close. Gibson, the guy with a career PER of 11.3, shoots .400 from the floor, .403 from 3pt range and has a TS% of .533. He's certainly a solid 3pt shooter but he's a specialist. A spot up shooter. He brings nothing else to the table. The idea that he plays much better D is just not true. He's a defensive liability himself. He's just as undersized as Curry is.

Meanwhile Curry had a PER of 19.4 last season (up from 16.3 his rookie year). He shot .480% from the floor and .442 from 3 pt range and had a TS% of .595. Gibson shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Curry. Curry IMO could be a legitimate second or third option on a contender. He'd immediately become our second best player behind Wall. Gibson may be the next Derek Fisher but here's a little secret. Derek Fisher isn't very good, lol. Fisher was more valued for his veteran presence and his ability in the clutch than his actual play.

We need legitimate all-star talent. Curry is on the cusp of that as one of the best young guards in the league. We don't need to be looking for the next Derek Fisher at this point. We ain't winning squat right now with Boobie starting at SG. Acquire stars now, worry about role players later.

The point isn't about whether or not Curry is better than Gibson. Nobody is arguing that. It's about building around Wall and using resources efficiently. Acquiring Curry - which would cost a ton because he's not even on the market and he's the face of his team - makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Dat2U]

Bull... shyt. Magette put up just as good numbers as Jackson - actually better, and Richardson wasn't even on that 2007-2008 team that won 48 games. Biedrins being healthy was the only significant difference, and most people have always poopooed him. And STOP the f'n BS about me hating Curry. Didn't we f'n just go over that a few days ago god dammit!

I was thinking about the previous year's team that won 40 games and shocked Dallas in the first round of the playoffs.

Ad it's no BS. It's one thing if I misinterpret your posts, it's another if you catch feelings because you can't take the heat. Anytime Curry gets brought up on here, you bash him. You've bashed him since the draft. You bashed him to argue the virtues of Randy Foye & Mike Miller. That's a fact.

At this point if you wanna whine and bitch about what I said then be my guest. But I don't see any reason to curse God over it.

[Ruzious]

Seems like just yesterday most Wizard fans who post here were happier with UFAs-to-be Mike Miller and Randy Foye than having Stephen Curry on a rookie deal.

One person said the Wiz should have at least gotten the Lawson pick in that deal.

[Ruzious]

Bull... shyt. Magette put up just as good numbers as Jackson - actually better, and Richardson wasn't even on that 2007-2008 team that won 48 games. Biedrins being healthy was the only significant difference, and most people have always poopooed him. And STOP the f'n BS about me hating Curry. Didn't we f'n just go over that a few days ago god dammit!

I was thinking about the previous year's team that won 40 games and shocked Dallas in the first round of the playoffs.

Ad it's no BS. It's one thing if I misinterpret your posts, it's another if you catch feelings because you can't take the heat. Anytime Curry gets brought up on here, you bash him. You've bashed him since the draft. You bashed him to argue the virtues of Randy Foye & Mike Miller. That's a fact.

At this point if you wanna whine and bitch about what I said then be my guest. But I don't see any reason to curse God over it.

Got dammit Dat. I was NEVER in favor of the Foye and Miller trade. That's a fact. Look at that trade thread. I said I did NOT want Foye - and that he was completely miscast as a point guard. STOP F'N MIS-REPRESENTING WHAT I SAID!

Why is it that you have some need to do that? Didn't we go over this before? What is your malfunction with me?

[Dat2U]

The point isn't about whether or not Curry is better than Gibson. Nobody is arguing that. It's about building around Wall and using resources efficiently. Acquiring Curry - which would cost a ton because he's not even on the market and he's the face of his team - makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Exactly how is wasting cap room on a guy like Gibson, a 9th or 10th man on the roster at best, using resources efficiently? That's the same problem we had under the EG/Abe regime. Throwing money away on marginal talent.

[Dat2U]

Bull... shyt. Magette put up just as good numbers as Jackson - actually better, and Richardson wasn't even on that 2007-2008 team that won 48 games. Biedrins being healthy was the only significant difference, and most people have always poopooed him. And STOP the f'n BS about me hating Curry. Didn't we f'n just go over that a few days ago god dammit!

I was thinking about the previous year's team that won 40 games and shocked Dallas in the first round of the playoffs.

Ad it's no BS. It's one thing if I misinterpret your posts, it's another if you catch feelings because you can't take the heat. Anytime Curry gets brought up on here, you bash him. You've bashed him since the draft. You bashed him to argue the virtues of Randy Foye & Mike Miller. That's a fact.

At this point if you wanna whine and bitch about what I said then be my guest. But I don't see any reason to curse God over it.

Got dammit Dat. I was NEVER in favor of the Foye and Miller trade. That's a fact. Look at that trade thread. I said I did NOT want Foye - and that he was completely miscast as a point guard. STOP F'N MIS-REPRESENTING WHAT I SAID!

Did you not spend a good number of posts arguing that Foye was a better player than Curry? Did you not post how good an acquisition Mike Miller was? A guy you long coveted just like the Wizards front office did?

[Ruzious]

The point isn't about whether or not Curry is better than Gibson. Nobody is arguing that. It's about building around Wall and using resources efficiently. Acquiring Curry - which would cost a ton because he's not even on the market and he's the face of his team - makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Exactly how is wasting cap room on a guy like Gibson, a 9th or 10th man on the roster at best, using resources efficiently? That's the same problem we had under the EG/Abe regime. Throwing money away on marginal talent.

Gibson's on the last year of his contract - he's got a team option the next year. It's not tying up cap room.

[Dat2U]

Seems like just yesterday most Wizard fans who post here were happier with UFAs-to-be Mike Miller and Randy Foye than having Stephen Curry on a rookie deal.

Certainly this board contains the smartest collection of posters I know, but that doesn't mean were not susceptible to the whole group think phenomenon.

[Ruzious]

I was thinking about the previous year's team that won 40 games and shocked Dallas in the first round of the playoffs.

Ad it's no BS. It's one thing if I misinterpret your posts, it's another if you catch feelings because you can't take the heat. Anytime Curry gets brought up on here, you bash him. You've bashed him since the draft. You bashed him to argue the virtues of Randy Foye & Mike Miller. That's a fact.

At this point if you wanna whine and bitch about what I said then be my guest. But I don't see any reason to curse God over it.

Got dammit Dat. I was NEVER in favor of the Foye and Miller trade. That's a fact. Look at that trade thread. I said I did NOT want Foye - and that he was completely miscast as a point guard. STOP F'N MIS-REPRESENTING WHAT I SAID!

Did you not spend a good number of posts arguing that Foye was a better player than Curry? Did you not post how good an acquisition Mike Miller was? A guy you long coveted just like the Wizards front office did?

What are you talking about??? No I didn't say that about Foye. I did like getting Miller, but I said very clearly that it wasn't a good trade, and that they should have at the minimum gotten Lawson in the deal. Dat, that's what I said. I didn't realize Miller would continue getting injured - do you consider that some kind of gotcha?

And the FACT is - at about that time I was calling for Ernie Grunfeld to be fired because he didn't pull the trigger on the rumored offer of Amare to the Wiz for Butler and the pick.

[MF23]

I always liked the Ginobli deal better. Not knowing Gilbert wasn't going to be what he was I thought that backcourt with a center like Haywood could do some damage. But yeah only a few wanted to take Curry. I definitely remeber Dat being one and he was right. I also remember some fool challenging my knowledge on Curry's future in a thread. Anonymity and lack of me needing to tute my horn saves some people from embarrasment.

[Ruzious]

I always liked the Ginobli deal better. Not knowing Gilbert wasn't going to be what he was I thought that backcourt with a center like Haywood could do some damage. But yeah only a few wanted to take Curry. I definitely remeber Dat being one and he was right. I also remember some fool challenging my knowledge on Curry's future in a thread. Anonymity and lack of me needing to tute my horn saves some people from embarrasment.

San Antonio denied there was any talks of trading Ginobili. It was reported that Amare was actually offered to the Wiz - and I think it was for Butler and the pick.

[nate33]

I can't even believe this is up for debate. Curry is a much better shooter than Gibson. It's not even close. Gibson, the guy with a career PER of 11.3, shoots .400 from the floor, .403 from 3pt range and has a TS% of .533. He's certainly a solid 3pt shooter but he's a specialist. A spot up shooter. He brings nothing else to the table. The idea that he plays much better D is just not true. He's a defensive liability himself. He's just as undersized as Curry is.

Meanwhile Curry had a PER of 19.4 last season (up from 16.3 his rookie year). He shot .480% from the floor and .442 from 3 pt range and had a TS% of .595. Gibson shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Curry.

Pretty unfair to use Gibson's stats last year where he was miscast as a shot creator on one of the worst offensive teams in recent NBA history. The whole point here is that we're talking about a backcourt mate to play alongside Wall under the assumption that Wall develops into an elite talent with the offense running through him every play. Under those conditions, it's much more appropriate to look at Gibson's numbers when he played alongside Lebron. In 2009/10, Gibson shot .477 from 3P range and posted a TS% of .617. Defensively, he held his counterparts to a PER of 12.7 playing on the league's 7th best defense

As Ruzious said, nobody here is seriously arguing that Gibson is better than Curry. We're saying that Curry would take a TON of resources to acquire, and that Gibson could bring much of what Curry could provide in outside shooting, along with better D, at about one tenth the price. Gibson might be available for the vet minimum when his contract is up. Curry will probably cost $10M a year, not to mention the high lotto pick or other valuable prospect needed to acquire him via trade.

[TGW]

I'm not a Curry hater at all, but off what few Warriors games I've seen, and what my buddy says (he's a die-hard Warriors fan), Curry is a terrible defender. Like downright putrid. Heck, just go to the Warriors board on realgm and ask them, or just do a google search:

viewtopic.php?t=1068548

Every single game someone else is abusing him.

Rodney Stuckey, Eric Gordon...


Leaving Gallinari in crunch time for wide open threes was inexusable

Steph's D is horrendous. It really is.

Curry's the major problem as far as our defense is concerned. He's consistently being torched by whoever it is he's guarding. He's incapble of playing any of the bigger 2s out there thus forcing Monta to have to guard the 2 but then he's unable to guard the quicker 1s which consistently blow by him. This screws up the entire defense since must constantly try and somehow make up for his defensive deficiensies.

As a result, they have to play off their men (this especially effects Monta) which is causing them to get beat and look bad themselves. Smart needs to devise a defensive scheme to compensate for Curry's ineptitude (he's needs for offense and to inistiate plays and we don't have an adequate replacement. Because of his insistence on playing Vlad Rad at the PF position (thus leaving AB as the only true help defender) he needs to stop having AB out there chasing guards because all this does is put him out of position to defend under the basket whenever Curry's man (or other) blows by him.

Curry definitely is the weakest link on D (not to say that anyone else is that great inclduing Lee when he's playing) and until we get back Lee (or find a real PF who can help Andris defend the paint) Smart needs to come up with another defensive scheme in a hurry and stop playing games with Vlad Rad who's strictly there to provide offense.

One of the problems with Telfair was that when Curry allows these guys to go off and they get hot, theere' no one who's going to stop them at that point (see Jennings last year). Youj can't let a guy get hot like that and expect someone else to come in and shut them down. Plus, after you move Monta onto Telfair then who's Curry expected to guard? Fiedls (a beast) or Wilson Chandler?

This is why you see guys looking like they don't know what to do. No matter who Curry guards, that's who the opposition is going to attack with. I'm not saying that we should bench the guy (he's too valuable offensively) but hjust find a way to compensate for him. Smart ios supposed to be a defensive coach. Starting Vlad Rad definitely is not the solution.

[DaRealHibachi]

People should really get over that Curry vs Foye/Miller argument; We probably wouldn't have sucked enough to get Wall if we drafted him in the first place...

[LyricalRico]

thats a great idea i like gibson, but who would we give up to obtain him?

Blatche for Gibson+Hollins+pick?

[J-Blaze]

thats a great idea i like gibson, but who would we give up to obtain him?

Blatche for Gibson+Hollins+pick?

lol u already know ill pass dray will be an allstar this year

[7-Day Dray]

thats a great idea i like gibson, but who would we give up to obtain him?

Blatche for Gibson+Hollins+pick?

lol u already know ill pass dray will be an allstar this year

[hands11]

Seems like just yesterday most Wizard fans who post here were happier with UFAs-to-be Mike Miller and Randy Foye than having Stephen Curry on a rookie deal.

Agree. All this Curry talk is upsetting my stomach. Curry was my early favorite in that draft and he would have been a nice piece to add to that other Wiz team at the time but that time has passed. Moving forward. On a rookie deal I though he was a steal since I thought he was NBA ready but now is not the time pay like 10M for the kid. Specially if he can't D up.

Besides, we have Nick and he is Balln now. And the kid is in the gym working hard. He got a lot stronger last year. He grow well as the starter. And he can, when he sets his mind to it, drive and monster dunk on you rss.

I'm sure he wasn't going to do a ton of that last year in a contract year on a losing team. Specially when he was doing so well as a starter anyway. I think he tried really hard to finish the season but even without a ton a Wade drives, he still didn't make it to the finishing line. I would expect once he is resigned and comes back even stronger then before, you are going to see Nick let loose.

Nick may not have been the sharpest tack in the box but the kid is a natural scorer and he has the drive to get better. He is more a Rick Saunder type personality than a problem child. Kid is just kind of goofy shy. You dont see him in the spotlight causing problems.

Of the questions marks on this team and who fits as a starter Nick is not one of the questions. He is a legit starting SG and should mature nicely as the team improves. By the time they are making the playoffs, he wont be the one holding them back from going deeper. I expect him game to continue to round out and toughen up.

[TGW]

thats a great idea i like gibson, but who would we give up to obtain him?

Blatche for Gibson+Hollins+pick?

lol u already know ill pass dray will be an allstar this year

Yea, on NBA 2K12.